What will happen first, Honda will update the 400x, or discontinue it?

[RNL]

Thought this would be an interesting discussion and topic. Since most here are die hard 400 guys, what is the thoughts on this? We all hear the talk, especially from other brand riders, on how the 400 is outdated, ancient, 1980's tech etc. Is the 400x on it's way out, will it receive an update soon? If so what do you want changed, kept the same etc?

[RNL]

For me I would like to see Honda do some minor tweeks. Some of the things that make others say the 400 is outdated are what I like. First being air cooled doesn't bother me one bit. The simpler the motor stays the better. For me as a rider, I think Honda could put a slightly hotter cam in it from the factory and maybe bump compression up. I'm not talking a wild high compression motor, but just like a 10:25 or so compression ratio. That and slightly more aggressive cam would make the 400 a lot better from the dealership and keep other quads, especially the z400 more in sight. Also possibly a front shock upgrade to something a touch better than the current ones. IMO, I think mods like this are not wild, and would be easy for Honda to do to make a good quad a great quad. And changes like that shouldn't cause the msrp to go up a ton either.

[CJM]

It needs a better cam, shocks and higher compression like 10:1 and it would be fine.

But honda isnt going to update it b/c right now quads arent selling all to well b/c of the financial situation. Cause by now you would think they would have a fuel injected 450r with an AL frame. The CRF got all of that, cause people still buy bikes and the racing scene is huge for them unlike quads.

[RNL]

Originally posted by CJM
It needs a better cam, shocks and higher compression like 10:1 and it would be fine.

But honda isnt going to update it b/c right now quads arent selling all to well b/c of the financial situation. Cause by now you would think they would have a fuel injected 450r with an AL frame. The CRF got all of that, cause people still buy bikes and the racing scene is huge for them unlike quads.

Well I think UTV's and big bore utilitys are selling well still, but sport quads are dying it seems. But quads will always be second to the bikes. :ermm:

[CJM]

Originally posted by RNL
Well I think UTV's and big bore utilitys are selling well still, but sport quads are dying it seems. But quads will always be second to the bikes. :ermm:

I hardly see any SxS's or utilities around. Then again I dont use one to hunt, which is what the majority use them for.

[RNL]

Originally posted by CJM
I hardly see any SxS's or utilities around. Then again I dont use one to hunt, which is what the majority use them for.

The 4x4 quads and side by sides are EVERYWHERE in Michigan on the trail systems and at the ORV parks. And I mean it's crawling with them.

[CJM]

Originally posted by RNL
The 4x4 quads and side by sides are EVERYWHERE in Michigan on the trail systems and at the ORV parks. And I mean it's crawling with them.

Guess its just different here, all we got is sport quads really-but then again its like going to the desert: dunes, sandy trails, bowls, hills, some woods, no rocks or ruts or mud really.

[Thumpin440ex]

I am with CJM. It only needs a few small tweaks, it would still be a great seller. It is still selling fairly well I would imagine, just based what I have seen at riding spots. It is old tech, but it hasn't changed because it is a bullet proof, almost no maintenance set up.. Even the built big bore, cam'd ex's are less maintenance then other factor race bikes.


John

[JOHNDOE83]

liquid cooled, higher compression, better suspension, lighter weight honda 400ex.

Is what I wanna see.

^ would be better then a 450r any day I bet.

[RNL]

Originally posted by Thumpin440ex
I am with CJM. It only needs a few small tweaks, it would still be a great seller. It is still selling fairly well I would imagine, just based what I have seen at riding spots. It is old tech, but it hasn't changed because it is a bullet proof, almost no maintenance set up.. Even the built big bore, cam'd ex's are less maintenance then other factor race bikes.


John

Supposedly it still outsells the 450r.

[chronicsmoke]

I wouldn't go too crazy for a stock bike, it would be nice to have a few things though.. what comes to my mind

1. Shocks with compression, preload and rebound (450r shocks but made for the 400ex)
2. longer swinger (06+ 450r length)
3. XR cam
4. 10.5:1 piston
5. +1" Arms (or as wide as the 450r is stock)

that would be a sweet little stock trail bike :macho

The thing is they already have these parts and manufacture them (except the piston).. why not put them on a new and improved 400x? :ermm:

[RNL]

Originally posted by chronicsmoke
I wouldn't go too crazy for a stock bike, it would be nice to have a few things though.. what comes to my mind

1. Shocks with compression, preload and rebound (450r shocks but made for the 400ex)
2. longer swinger (06+ 450r length)
3. XR cam
4. 10.5:1 piston
5. +1" Arms (or as wide as the 450r is stock)

that would be a sweet little stock trail bike :macho

The thing is they already have these parts and manufacture them (except the piston).. why not put them on a new and improved 400x? :ermm:

Thats my whole point!!!!! come on Honda.

[KKiowaTJ]

They wont drop too much coin in a quad that they consider second best. They will mess with the 450R first.

But IMO, The only people who cry about them are butthurt they bought a yamaturd and is always working or dumping money into.

The only thing the machine needs is a wider stance and suspension. I dont want them to go F'N with what has and will continue to work. Might be outdated etc, But it can still run with the big boys with the right rider, Suspension and some motor tweaks.

No reason to re-invent the wheel, This one is about as perfect out of the box as the come. A few hundred vs. thousand for others, Your right up there with your buddys on 450's.

SxS and 4x4 quads can suck a fart out of my ***, Too big and heavy always out tearing up the trails. If there is a poster quad to close land, The 4x4's should be it.
All the fat asses do is dig up holes, Make deep ruts etc and all to 'see if she will make her'. they always stop on hills to pull that chit.

To each their own though

[Thumpin440ex]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
liquid cooled, higher compression, better suspension, lighter weight honda 400ex.

Is what I wanna see.

^ would be better then a 450r any day I bet.

Why the liquid cooled? Just curious, why fix it if it isn't broke? Water cooling is just something else to break( water pumps, radi, hoses ect)


John

[DragonGunner]

Honda won't do anything with the 400EX.....around here 4X4 sell pretty good and side by sides have takin over the market big time....last time to the dune in MI never saw so many side by sides ever, .....makes sense, some places you can't ride double and its perfect for Dad to take the kid or wife for a spin....but for the money why not just buy a Jeep....?

[coryatver]

Your saying you want 450r a-arms, 450r shocks, liquid cooled, high compression, aggressive cam? Lucky for you they already make what you want its called a 450r! lol

Personally I think they should leave it exactly the way it is. Only thing I think they should do is lower the price.

Updates will mean a higher price tag! It already cost about the same as the new version yfz450 which kicks its but across the board for performance.

The 400ex is exactly what it should be and works well where its at. It meets all the epa requirements for way in the future I don't see them changing anything and there going to be selling them for a while longer.

[RNL]

What do you guys think about if Honda offered an HRC type kit for the 400x like they do the 450r? They could cll it like a XCkit or something, with a different cam etc. For a few hundred buck I think it would be cool. Anyways good thoughts guys, lots of varying oppinions.

[JOHNDOE83]

Originally posted by Thumpin440ex
Why the liquid cooled? Just curious, why fix it if it isn't broke? Water cooling is just something else to break( water pumps, radi, hoses ect)


John

Ya thats a really good point.

Please exclude liquid cooled from that statement:blah:

[CJM]

Originally posted by RNL
What do you guys think about if Honda offered an HRC type kit for the 400x like they do the 450r? They could cll it like a XCkit or something, with a different cam etc. For a few hundred buck I think it would be cool. Anyways good thoughts guys, lots of varying oppinions.

That would be a smart idea. 10:1 piston, airbox lid, cam,etc would be perfect.

[toomanytoys]

Here is the problem.

Ok, Honda engineers sit down and say.

Lets upgrade the 400X. We will give it, a 450R carb, better shocks, hotter cam, and ect ect.

Price point on the 400X is pretty low. I bought mine brand new last year for 5200 out the door.

This raises the price of the quad to the 450R level.

The 400X is what it is. Its an entry level sport quad with great potential

Sport quads here are no selling. Everyone has RZRs, Rhinos and big bore 4x4 utlilities.

I personally have a 800S RZR that I ride 100 times more than my 400X. My 400X has been sitting in the garage since august only being moved around the garage and up and down the road a few times.

I put 904 miles on my rzr in no time at all.

[honda400ex2003]

imo they will discontinue it before they make any changes to it.

i think they will just leave it alone and keep selling them for what it is. a reliable, quick machine as they have since 99 when it came out.

i think its bad enough that it got the ugly fenders and the gearing change. i liked the original gearing much better for general riding and it cruises much better with the old 15/38 gearing and the internals.

it would be nice to have a kit again, at one time, i thought they did have one for it that included the hrc cam a different silencer end and jets. i may be mistaken though. i thought it was out around the same time as the 450r kits when it first came out.

all of the items here would be great, though, id buy a 450r over a 400ex with these changes anyway. thats the main issue. they dont want to make something that will compete with the 450r. they would have two machines that are trying to be the same thing, this will not happen.

just my .02 though,
steve

[RNL]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
imo they will discontinue it before they make any changes to it.

i think they will just leave it alone and keep selling them for what it is. a reliable, quick machine as they have since 99 when it came out.

i think its bad enough that it got the ugly fenders and the gearing change. i liked the original gearing much better for general riding and it cruises much better with the old 15/38 gearing and the internals.

it would be nice to have a kit again, at one time, i thought they did have one for it that included the hrc cam a different silencer end and jets. i may be mistaken though. i thought it was out around the same time as the 450r kits when it first came out.

all of the items here would be great, though, id buy a 450r over a 400ex with these changes anyway. thats the main issue. they dont want to make something that will compete with the 450r. they would have two machines that are trying to be the same thing, this will not happen.

just my .02 though,
steve

Whats wrong with the new gearing? why don't you like it? I ask because I have never rode a newer style one.

[hondaREX]

I can't imagine they will ever put anything into them other than cosmetic changes again. Personally, im completely happy with the bike. Perfect for my budget minded hobby. Always reliable, easy to work on, and enjoyable. At this point in my life and where and how often I get to ride, it's plenty of fun. I need to get home in one piece and with as little maintenance and repairs as possible. I can see myself having this bike in the garage until my kids are old enough to say they want it. The 350x of the 2000s!!! Ready to be used at just about any moment. It will always be my project, I have to have something to tinker with!!!

[CJM]

Originally posted by RNL
Whats wrong with the new gearing? why don't you like it? I ask because I have never rode a newer style one.

Gears are just different, imho its geared to low and the gears in the trans are spaced slightly different-too long imho.

[Baxter]

I'm hoping , Honda goes for "BNG". Why change it. It's probably the 2nd most reliable engine Honda built. First would be the XR600r. You can buy shocks, make it wider , make it faster , by buying aftermarket parts , If Honda adds these then the RRP goes up. Bit of a no brainer to me.

[honda400ex2003]

Originally posted by RNL
Whats wrong with the new gearing? why don't you like it? I ask because I have never rode a newer style one.

The newer ones run 14/39 gearing with some internal lowering also. IMO the old setup let it rev out more and kept the hp in the fun zone easier with the 15/38. it just seems to fall flat fast with the lower gearing for me. Its personal preference though i suppose along with tire selection.

steve

[Shawthy33]

I don't think they will change much beyond colors and plastic shape as they've shown in the past. Everyone above has posted about stuff that Honda should change, but if sales are down at the already low price, retooling their assembly line will be expensive and will not be a one-size-fits-all upgrade. My argument however, is because I think the best value is to buy a clean, used old-generation 400ex and use the savings to build the quad you truly want.

1. Most importantly and in line with all of the reasons above on why they will NOT change things is because the engine/frame are bulletproof as they sit.

2. New $5,200 (previous post) vs. $2,000 (conservative side) for a clean used one - leaves a lot of room for shocks, A-Arms, Axle, Nerfs, Tires, Stem, engine upgrades etc. $3,200 for reverse and spaceship looking plastic just doesn't do it for me.

3. Modding stuff is fun, don't get me a wrong, a brand new CanAm X-package DS would be sweet to have in the garage but then my only wrench time would be fixing it.

Now to play devils advocate, IF they were to change something, I'll bet they discontinue it altogether and put a CRF250r motor in a 400ex chassis to make a middle-weight ripper.

[duneslider]

Personally, it won't be dropped for a long long time. It still sells pretty well. It works pretty well. I looks pretty nice, even with the new look. It is as reliable as they get. Requires little maintenance. Pretty fast for what it is. Probably (open to opinion) the best all around sport quad made.

If they make it more like the 450r then they start cutting out of their 450r market. Not gonna happen. They want high performance buyers buying the 450R, not a revamped 400ex.

I think it would be cool to see a 400ex type bike with the crf250 motor. Probably be a fun bike to ride but I don't know if it would do as good as the 400ex in most situations.

I think we will continue to get BNG and that is it. The only reason it will get an upgrade is if financially it will be cheaper to use something different, like they could share parts with something else.

The ATV racing scene is basically invisible. Back when the 450's started coming out they became a blip on the radar and we got a lot of ATV excitement and a lot happened in a few years. Now the excitement has shifted to SXS's. I can't believe how many modified razrs and stuff I see at the dunes. They are everywhere! Crazy money is being spent there right now.

The manufacturers follow the money.

[Shawthy33]

Originally posted by duneslider
The manufacturers follow the money. [/B]

Amen

[RNL]

How about the Xr 400 cam upgrade from the factory.