Starter/cranking issue?

[440ex. ehhh!!]

So after having the motor rebuilt in october, i finally got the thing to run.

Had no spark i found out today, so who knows how long that has been the issue for. But I got that figured out.

The problem is that sometimes it will crank over and run fine, but other times right before it is about to fire, it acts as if the motor locks up, or the starter locks up. Causing it not to run.

With the kill switch pulled, or the spark plug boot off, it will not do this. So I think it has to be something with the starter???

Some help please guys

Josh

[xcracer416]

check your timing. if it checks good check your decompressor mech. i doubt its your starter.

[Thumpin440ex]

Could also be the starter clutch/gear. 450's are notorious for it..


John

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Does this sound like something that would happen if the clutch was going?

Timing is good

[Thumpin440ex]

Clutch shouldn't have any affect on the starting of the bike. The issue with the starter gear/clutch is a known problem, they have a revised mechanism but still fails. My buddy went through them left and right when he had his non kicker R..


John

[440ex. ehhh!!]

yeah thats the clutch I am talking about. But I don't want to tear into the motor again if people can tell me that it's not the problem

[Thumpin440ex]

Oh ok, I didn't know you were referring to that one LOL.. Only way I can tell you if it is the starter clutch is to hear it. But if it sounds like a slow winding, sound it is the clutch/gear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWitCWa_Snw

John

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Not to worry.
Mine only sounds like that if the spark plug is out, lol.
It cranks fine for a few seconds and then it will sound like your hitting a piece of steel with a hammer, and then it just stops and does nothing

[blacknblue#2]

Whats the setting on your decompressor and are you 100% sure on the timing? not doubting you just checking. From what your describing it sounds like its "kicking back" against the starter. Dont give it any fuel when trying to start it. If anything maybe pump it a couple times before you hit the starter. Not during. You ever had a kick start kick back?? its pure hell on a shin so im sure its hell on a starter too

[440ex. ehhh!!]

yes 100% on the timing. Had the problem with timing being off the first time the motor was apart. But we have triple checked timing and so has the dealer mechanic who is friend of ours.

I would normally never give it any throttle on starting. Without giving it throttle it will not start, but it will still "kick back" as you are describing. I found that with giving it throttle, it will sometimes start.
After having it run for 5 mins, it then started fine without throttle and kicking back. But then trying it again, did not work.

And no lol, never gave my 05 any gas when starting it because of the kick back on them.

[blacknblue#2]

clean your carburetor, make sure the pilot jet is clean and visable through it. I dont know what all mods you done to it but it may not hurt to go up a size on the pilot. The pilot jet is your starting jet basically. You air/fuel screw plays a big part on starting too as it adjust the pilot jet. You may be able to turn it out some and get it to start. It definitely sounds lean in the pilot for some reason. Maybe you will get lucky and be able to get it to start without throttle by turning your air/fuel out some. Just be sure it still has spring tension on it. Dont want it vibrating out lol. 3 turns is about as far as ill go on one before upping the pilot. Ive heard of guys going farther, I just feel safe at 3 and aint checking it every 5 minutes that way. Electric start or kick these 450's should start without throttle

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Carb was cleaned before storing it for winter, and there was no gas in it all winter either. I drained the carb.

I have the sizes at home of what jets are in it, Ill check it tonight.

[440ex. ehhh!!]

This is what i have written down.

Ab 208 main
K 75 starter jet
50 slow jet

Isn't 50 bigger than usual as it is??

[blacknblue#2]

All those jets seen large to me but that don't mean anything exactly without knowing your other mods. What are your other mods. I'm running the crf fcr which ain't exactly the same but close. I'm running a 45 pilot and a 165 main. That's with an open air box and full exhaust

[440ex. ehhh!!]

full dr.d exhaut, port and polish head, 12.5:1, no air box, uni filter, stage 2 cam.

[440ex. ehhh!!]

I did a compression test today and it read about 28-29 psi. So I was really confused because I though high compression would have been causing it to lock up and turn over slow.

All of the testing I had been doing since putting the motor back together was from a car battery grounded at the motor and on the + terminal, but since I hooked up the battery yesterday, it has not done it once...so as far as i know, it just had something to do with the car battery, even though it was fully charged.

Anyone have any suggestions, or should I just leave it alone now and see what happens??

[Baileygunns]

Compression test is only going to show you want your decomp is set to...

Where you been home slice??

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Hey man lol...been a while.
Havent ridden since july and been through a lot of trouble with it. Been real busy with school thats for dam sure.

Guys were sayin the past problem I had was due to too much compression when.cranking over, thats why I checked it.

Hows the riding been in michigan

Edit : forgot you moved to New Hamp. Aha

[Baileygunns]

Could be you're starter clutch going out... Getting bound up and givin you that lock up...

Still have snow so no riding... Been snowboarding instead! Took a 15 year break from that and started hitting t again.

Didn't you have some dude build that motor for you??

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Oh nice, I wanted to get on the hills this year but there was literally only 2 weeks out of the whole winter we had decent snow. It just kept melting.

Dealer mechanic did the bottom end, I did the top end.

I saw a video of what it's like when the starter clutch is going, and it didn't sound like it at all.

I am not worried about it right now because with the battery in, it hasn't done it once yet. So I'm thinking everything is okay.

[Baileygunns]

Maybe it had some thing to do with that far battery or the connection? Weird...

If it it's not doing it anymore I wouldn't worry to much about it.

[xcracer416]

for what its worth i just put a 24vt kit on my 2007 and had this same problem. I figured you fixed your problem so i didnt bother to post what i found with mine.

I could go back to the 12vt system and it would work fine also, hook it back up 24 vt and it would barely turn itself over with a new battery in it. I pulled the valve cover to check the valves and found out the decompressor weight has a spring on it that is supposed to go over the arm, mine was underneath the arm. Im not sure how it happened since i havent touched the cam, but it did. I put the spring back the way it was supposed to be an it fixed my problem, and was 24vt since.

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Thanks guys. If anything changes I'll put it up here. But as of now, everything is good on it :D

[440ex. ehhh!!]

So today I figured I would put the airbox back on it. I oiled the filter also. And now, IT WONT START.
I need to get rid of this thing asap. Worst quad i ever bought and biggest waste of 6 grand.

It has spark and it has gas. The carb has not had gas in it for the past 2 months while it sat either. I have no idea what to do. Could it just be that there is way to much oil on the filter and its too fresh so its not getting enough air?
We even tried bump starting in 4th gear and nothing.

[Chadh]

Counter weight on the cam gear is sticking. Probably due to locktight from the cam gear bolts. THe weight should move freely when the engine is off. You should be able to move it to the extended position and it will fall back into the original position. I am assuming this is an 08 based on your signature.

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Counter weight on the cam gear is sticking. Probably due to locktight from the cam gear bolts. THe weight should move freely when the engine is off. You should be able to move it to the extended position and it will fall back into the original position. I am assuming this is an 08 based on your signature.

Shouldn't it still start when i try and bump start it though?
Why do you think that would be the problem?
And the top end was put back together months prior to the last time i had it running...

[Chadh]

If it sticks in the extended position, it wont start. Why do i think this is a potential problem? it happened to me. I ran in circles before I realized the issue. Just sharing my experience. It happens more than people admit too. Its easy to check. Remove the valve cover and try to move it.

[440ex. ehhh!!]

I understand that, but if it was going to do it, shouldn't it have happened recently after rebuilding it, not 4 months later?

[440ex. ehhh!!]

It must have had something to do with the airfilter being just oiled.
I just cranked it over and it started without even choke. I'm pretty relieved.