What's wrong with it???

[400grl]

Hey again, everyone!

Alrighty - ever since I've had my 440 done, I have felt a little that it was underpowered. And last night, I had August G. (Huevos 5!) ride it around....and he verified that it was a little underpowered (and that my steering was stiff as hell!).....

SO....my next question. Here is what's in it right now:
IMS 440 kit (head shaved a tad on both sides) 11:1
Ported
WB Track Cam
Stock carb
stock springs/valves
K&N Jet Kit (largest main jet available in kit - can't remember what it is - stage 2)
K&N Filter
WB CDI
Open airbox
Stock oil cooler
Stock gearing
20's up front/ 20's in the rear
FMF HiFlo Header
WB E-Series exhaust (10 disks - cap on right now)

I run race gas, change the oil regularly (synthetic), clean and oil my filter regularly.......

What could be the problem areas here? I am thinking jetting (what main jets does anyone use with this same setup?).....maybe timing is off? Maybe my floats are sticking (it idles pretty high after some track time)?.... there is no popping or backfiring present, however it seems to suck up the gas........it's not smoking or doing anything wierd.....it runs really good, it just seems low on power for what I have in there.

SO!!!!! What should I be looking at in there?:huh :confused:

[zfire_28]

I would have to guess your jetting is off. What does your plug look like? I have read everything I can find on jetting my 416 and can never get it satisfactory. I gave up yesterday and took it to a mechanic.


Oh by the way I seen your pic in the post your face thread. you a HOTTIE;)

[QuadTrix6]

sounds like jetting

[Steve-o 400EX]

Yea i would say jetting and it ur losin power i would say ur rich if its boggin. Go down in jet sizes one by one until u hit it right on.

[dariusld]

The only things that jump out at me in your mods are 10 disks, jetting and porting. Who did the porting? 10 disks doesn't sound like enough disks. In the jet kit instructions it says for the largest jet in the stage 2 kit (170) you need to be running full exhaust and no air box lid, so from those instructions I would say your under jetted. When racing does it run on the hot side? Don't you love are help, one person says over jetted and one says under jetted.

[Mxbubs]

If you got a 37hp motor, chances are you clutches are slipping. This will cause the bike to get up and go at a much slower rate.

If this is the problem, get a hinson basket, and new clutches.

[400grl]

Yeah - sorry about that - I do have a Hinson Basket and Dirt Digger clutch - i didn't mention it......it only starts to slip if I'm not on top of my oil change......

Jetting....cool - my boyfriend is going out to check it right now, and see what we are looking at.......we will fiddle with it until we get a good setting.

Glad that seems to be the general consensus!(SP?) That's a cheap fix! :)

Thanks for the compliment, BTW! ;)

[400grl]

UPDATE!

We tore into it, and found the following:

Carb was all gunked up
Main jet was 170
Throttle was only working 3/4.....screw had loosened on the
throttle cable or something like that...I was only getting 75%
Idle Adjust cable was broken and all gummed up


Sooooooooooo......we put in a 165 main, cleaned the carb and everything related to it, took out all the discs in the E-Series and left the cap off again (I like that setup)......and when I revved it up, it felt way different. I will ride tomorrow and see what it's like......should be fun! Thanks for the help, everyone!:D

[Steve-o 400EX]

Originally posted by 400grl
UPDATE!

We tore into it, and found the following:

Carb was all gunked up
Main jet was 170
Throttle was only working 3/4.....screw had loosened on the
throttle cable or something like that...I was only getting 75%
Idle Adjust cable was broken and all gummed up


Sooooooooooo......we put in a 165 main, cleaned the carb and everything related to it, took out all the discs in the E-Series and left the cap off again (I like that setup)......and when I revved it up, it felt way different. I will ride tomorrow and see what it's like......should be fun! Thanks for the help, everyone!:D

I would be careful runnin the motor without the discs on. My friend does that and his valves are shot because there's no back pressure. Just thought i'd forewarn ya.;)

[400grl]

:eek: Really??? Hmmmmm....I'll have to look into that!

[ChadEXer]

I may be wrong but it seems like a 165 main would be too lean?? I ran a 175 main in my old 416 with pretty close to the same mods you have, and it was just about right

[400grl]

I was running a 170 main, and we think it was a tad rich......the guy that sets up alot of the pro's bikes out here suggested the 165 main....we are going to try it, and see if it makes a good difference.....with the carb being all cleaned out now and my throttle at full throttle.....it's hard to tell until I ride it. We drove all over friggin Phoenix yesterday trying to find a dry place to ride....the damn rain just kept following us!!! So....I haven't tried it out yet....if it's not right, we may try to go back up again. Jetting confuses the crap out of me.....!:huh :D

[Extremeracer167]

yeah but actually the larger BORE you have doesnt mean u wanna go up in jets. Usually a larger bore will have a tendancy to pull gas through the jets much faster, cuase it has a stonger VACUME (sp) effect. So u cant go by that when u are jetting. Most ppl dont know that. I know my dad is running a smaller main jet in his 465 stroker engine, then i am with my 425

WEll tell us how it ran????



Also I run 160 in my 416 with airbox lid off.. runnin very strong

[400grl]

I couldn't ride! It rained ALL DAMN DAY!!! I live in the desert so I can have SUNSHINE 99% of the time......WTF???:grr ;) Oh well - we are in a major drout, so this is good for the state......just bad for someone wanting to test out her cool new improvements!!!! How was your race, Rico?? :)

[02Yellow400]

Yeah i am intrested to see how everything works now. Ive been thinking about doing a 440 but dont wanna toss my warrenty out the window just yet.

[400grl]

My 440 has been great - I think this carb and throttle stuff was like this before I even put it in......it's going to be cool to see if there is a big difference or not! :)

[02Yellow400]

I would hope with all that work it would make a difference. If it didnt why would anyone do it?

[400grl]

Yeah - it makes a difference, the better it's done, the bigger the difference.....there are so many things that need to be ajusted and modified correctly to make the most gains, if you don't get them all right, then you will be down on the power you could have.

Sorry to come into this one late but just missed it b4.

You have more than one potential power robing issue to look into.

Seems you are on the right track with the carb corrections and dialing in the jetting (sorry you got stuck with the dyno jets :( ) and dont let the sizes that otheres are using confuse you cause you are in a different altitude and have very different attmosphere in the desert etc. so give the engine what it wants not what you think it should need.

You may want to also consider a compression test cause the wiseco kits are famous for being very low in comp. and that will make your 440 die out fast when accelerating etc. and the cam will take away from the bottom end even more.

I see that you say the head was shaved a "tad" on both sides and I am assumeing that you mean the head and cylinder. If you know how much was shaved please let us know cause most of the wiseco kits would need from 20-30 thou depending on which gaskets were used.

Dont be suprised if the actual comp is not anyware near 11:1.

Also when jetting take a close look at the needle circuit cause thats where most of oour riding is done. Be sure that its not to to rich cause its not gonna feel right if its too fat in the middle (lol somehow that just sounds funny).

When you find some dry time to test it try running it with the choke on and see what that does to the diff throttle settings. If it boggs down then your deff not lean and should try jetting lower etc and dont be afraid to also look at the insulator and outer ring of the plug, but remember its hard to go just on the plug so compare all the info.

One last thing is that you prob dont need race fuel and its slowing things down more. try either straight 93 pump gas or a mix and just in case be sure its not detonating etc.

[F-16Guy]

I'm betting the throttle was the problem the whole time! Mine gradually worked out of adjustment until I was only getting about 3/4 throttle. It happens so slowly that you don't notice it. I always wondered why I kept getting my ***** kicked all over the place, then my buddy rode it and found the problem. After he took the slack out of the cable, I was the one doing the ***** kicking!! Your jetting didn't sound too far off, and if I were you, I'd run between 14-18 discs on your 440. I have 18 on my 416, and it pulls hard. You need the back pressure. Look outside, nice today, huh?

[400grl]

Heeeyyy cool! Lots of new info!!! Thanks so much! One thing I wanted to be sure of....I have the IMS 440 kit - isn't that the JE piston? I avoided Wiseco because I had heard their compression is off......does this help any?

No....no idea how much was shaved....my guess would be a minimal amount - the guy that did the head work said that he wanted to be sure all surfaces were flush so I would get the maximum benefit from my new piston/sleeve....does this make sense?

Yeah - I wonder how long my throttle has been off - it feels like it sticks out alot more now, so it must have been whacked for a while! That's cool! I will know on Friday what else I need to be looking at.......

Thanks 440EX4ME for all the other stuff to check.......I'll be looking into it! I have a question for you! Is it necessary for the choke hinge flap to be on there (in the carb)? I have only used my choke maybe 2 times in 2 years.....never really need it. My bf mentioned that if that flap and hinge were not there anymore, the airflow would not be restricted anymore.......what is your take on that? Has anyone ever removed that? Just wondering......

Ok - I better get some work done!

F-16 guy - you must be from AZ?! Yeah - the weather is perfect right now! I need to ride! :)

[AtvMxRider]

Corry your BF is right remove the flap and the rod going through the carb. you are going to have to block the hole of with something but that's no big deal. If you do a search you will find alot of info on it. I hope I helped you.

[400grl]

Cool! Thanks - I'll start searching!:D I mean...later.....after work.....cuz i gotta work.......:devil

I mean...later.....after work.....cuz i gotta work....... Funny almost forgot about that lmao.


I thought you had the weisco lol and the kits came with both if I remember right the early ones were wisco or someone who was making kits had wiseco etc.

The kit in my ex when I got it was the ims J&E 11:1 and it wasnt nearly that and by later calculations was closer to 9.5:1 give or take some.

When I got that along with some other issues straightened out it ran like a new machine.

A lot of guys here have removed the choke and I keep thinking about it as I never use the darn thing but I cant see that its gonna be a lot of diff and would rather leave it there for when I sell it and get the FCR.

Have fun

[400grl]

Cool! Yeah - I've got my eye on an FCR, too....I like Keihn. That's for later, though.....I've got to use what I've got before I add anything else! :) Thanks again for your help!!!

[Steve-o 400EX]

Yea, ditch the choke, id di and it made a noticeable difference. It starts easier too. Even with temperatures around 0 degree's it still starts with no problems.;)