Sparks exhaust performance on a 400ex

[RNL]

I bought a clean 04 400ex as a secondary/trail quad, my other quad is a YFZ. I know the Sparks is considered the top exhaust for the 400, but I was reading and seen some people are saying it's a top end pipe and takes power from the low end. Is this true, anyone have the Sparks and can confirm the results from a Sparks on the 400? I was thinking of the pipe with the sparks key.

[Longdong]

This might help.
http://www.260111.s5.com/testtrx400escapes.htm

[JOHNDOE83]

A pipe on a four stroke will never move the power at any rpm, A four stroke pipe only flows more or less air to add or decrease HP and decible level.

The only thing that can move power on a four stroke is the cam.

When you feel like youve lost power somewhere like "the low end" on a four stroke after a mod like big bore, carb, pipe its because youve gone lean in that spot.

Mods like valves, carbs, bores, pipes/ drag pipes add overall power, a cam will change were that power has the most out put by controlling what point in the rpms you have the most air/fuel flow.

[Crosshairs]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
A pipe on a four stroke will never move the power at any rpm, A four stroke pipe only flows more or less air to add or decrease HP and decible level.

The only thing that can move power on a four stroke is the cam.


Thats not entirely true , a pipe can and will have a huge impact on where the power comes on and falls off.

so it certainly can have an impact on the RPM at which peak power is delivered

[RNL]

Sounds like its just a sweet arse pipe lol.

[426kidz]

if you look at my thread im building my bike up again and ohhhh how sweet that pipe looks and I have heard they make a good difference in power and sound amazing!:D

[Zakradu398]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
A pipe on a four stroke will never move the power at any rpm, A four stroke pipe only flows more or less air to add or decrease HP and decible level.

The only thing that can move power on a four stroke is the cam.

When you feel like youve lost power somewhere like "the low end" on a four stroke after a mod like big bore, carb, pipe its because youve gone lean in that spot.

Mods like valves, carbs, bores, pipes/ drag pipes add overall power, a cam will change were that power has the most out put by controlling what point in the rpms you have the most air/fuel flow.

Wrong, header length and diameter play a significant role. :devil:

[Blodg]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83

Mods like valves, carbs, bores, pipes/ drag pipes add overall power, a cam will change were that power has the most out put by controlling what point in the rpms you have the most air/fuel flow.
Just wanted to add that a carb can also have a strong effect on where the power is located. Adding a larger diameter carb will often increase top end power if the jetting and motor mods match the carb do to higher VOLUME of airflow and air/fuel mixture. But that same carb with a higher volume of airflow will often have a lower VELOCITY of airflow which can cause a drop in low end power.

[RNL]

Would it be a pretty good increase over stock with the sparks key and pipe then? With mods like that would be in the area of what a stock Suzuki 400 is?

[Blodg]

Originally posted by RNL
Would it be a pretty good increase over stock with the sparks key and pipe then? With mods like that would be in the area of what a stock Suzuki 400 is?
Still probably going to be a little behind a stock Z400 with just the pipe and key. If you added an '04-'05 450R carb with an outerwears lid I think it would run very close to a Z400 which have around 31-33 HP stock.

[JOHNDOE83]

Originally posted by Zakradu398
Wrong, header length and diameter play a significant role. :devil:

Yes that is true :rolleyes:

[426kidz]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
Yes that is true :rolleyes:

I think it has a little to do with it, the flow has got to play a role in power. If you look at the header and the exhaust, the sparks is significantly larger. I have mine on my new build BUTT have not had the chance too test it. I am making the transfer from a full HMF to the full Sparks. So ill know soon.

[RNL]

Originally posted by Blodg
Still probably going to be a little behind a stock Z400 with just the pipe and key. If you added an '04-'05 450R carb with an outerwears lid I think it would run very close to a Z400 which have around 31-33 HP stock.

Seriously????? Wow, I thought the two 400's were close.

[RNL]

I wanna make this quad a badass tight trails/woods quad. My YFZ can be a bit to much and more than a handful on these types of trails. So with a pipe, Sparks key, and was thinking of dropping one tooth on the front sprocket.

[JOHNDOE83]

Originally posted by DragonGunner
If you have too big dia. head pipe with too much flow it will hurt. Same with porting a head, if you take too much off the exhaust for more flow it will hurt from bottom on up. There has to be the right amount of back pressure to make things work the best.

mostly true.

Yes, we cannot have a 3in dia header pipe that goes to 8in dia slipon. that would do nothing except look horrible and after a certain diameter you might as well take the header completely off.

Diameter does matter but only to a certain point, back pressure however does nothing except limit the amount of air the motor can breath resulting in less or more power. A stock 400ex header with a hollowed out slipon has NO backpressure believe me.

Im not saying huge pipe is the way to go or that no pipe = the most power.

Just that with the differences in available pipes, a stock 400ex header with ground welds and a hollowed out slipon is just as good if not the same or better then the most expensive aftermarket pipe you can buy.

[RNL]

So save some cash and skip the sparks with just a slip on?????

[DragonGunner]

Originally posted by 426kidz
I think it has a little to do with it, the flow has got to play a role in power. If you look at the header and the exhaust, the sparks is significantly larger. I have mine on my new build BUTT have not had the chance too test it. I am making the transfer from a full HMF to the full Sparks. So ill know soon.

If you have too big dia. head pipe with too much flow it will hurt. Same with porting a head, if you take too much off the exhaust for more flow it will hurt from bottom on up. There has to be the right amount of back pressure to make things work the best.

[JOHNDOE83]

Originally posted by RNL
So save some cash and skip the sparks with just a slip on?????

Bottom line is thats all up to you, If I had the money I would wanna do a "custom" shorty sparks pipe.

some people dont want the headache so they just buy a expensive pipe setup thats ready to go then they go with a second hand jetting reccomendation and call it a day and ride.

Some people custom make stuff then tune it properly.

Some people need a nice aftermarket pipe to fit in with friends or for racing regulations or riding spot forestry laws with spark arrestors.

If you have the money and want a amazing bolt on pipe get the sparks, if you wanna save $$$ and be custom then cut, chop and grind your stock stuff then tune it right.

I debate on stuff for months before I actually make the move and pick what I wanna do in these situations, its best to think things out before you cut something or buy something.

If you need shocks more then a pipe, I would buy shocks with the sparks money and customize my stock pipe but thats just my opinion.

[RNL]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
Bottom line is thats all up to you, If I had the money I would wanna do a "custom" shorty sparks pipe.

some people dont want the headache so they just buy a expensive pipe setup thats ready to go then they go with a second hand jetting reccomendation and call it a day and ride.

Some people custom make stuff then tune it properly.

Some people need a nice aftermarket pipe to fit in with friends or for racing regulations or riding spot forestry laws with spark arrestors.

If you have the money and want a amazing bolt on pipe get the sparks, if you wanna save $$$ and be custom then cut, chop and grind your stock stuff then tune it right.

I debate on stuff for months before I actually make the move and pick what I wanna do in these situations, its best to think things out before you cut something or buy something.

If you need shocks more then a pipe, I would buy shocks with the sparks money and customize my stock pipe but thats just my opinion.


Good info for sure. My thoughts are the shocks are fine for me. I'm in my thirties now, I do no track riding at all. I don't do any big jumps either. I do moderate to kinda fast trail riding and want more snap out of the corners. I guess the shocks could come into play with the rutted out trails sections, and the moguls from all the traffic on the state trails here in Michigan. Maybe down the road I get some different shocks. Thats why I was inquiring about exhaust setup. Give me the snap out of corners, and the Sparks key should let me rev some more with a lil extra torque (so they say). And a sprocket change could really make this thing a tractor in the trails.

My YFZ is fun, and dam fast. But for trail systems where 3rd gear is as high as you get, I find I am constantly shifting on the YFZ. The EX seems to be geared more for these conditions, and is a little more comfy to ride to. Plus not shifting nearly as much.

[JOHNDOE83]

lol ya im in the same boat 30's with family and work obligations.

Riding spots around here are alll gone and illegal now, ive been hurt to many times to mx race and the family wouldnt appreciate me doing that again lol. Thats why I custom build and drag race only now.

I was also a stock shock fan even when I was racing, I think you would deffinetly benefit from the key and the pipe in this case.

If your handy with custom work, use the pipe money for a cam, carb, key and custom grind your pipe with a slipon.

[RNL]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
lol ya im in the same boat 30's with family and work obligations.

Riding spots around here are alll gone and illegal now, ive been hurt to many times to mx race and the family wouldnt appreciate me doing that again lol. Thats why I custom build and drag race only now.

I was also a stock shock fan even when I was racing, I think you would deffinetly benefit from the key and the pipe in this case.

If your handy with custom work, use the pipe money for a cam, carb, key and custom grind your pipe with a slipon.

Havn't given much thought to a cam. Getting into the internals scares me a bit lol.

[426kidz]

let me putt this in simple terms, Sparks is a leader in this field. If there product hurt your motor or didnt increase your power and maximize your performance they would not sell them and no one would love them like everyone does. Yes cam's, carbs and motor work is a must. My bike is as built as it can get so I prefer going with the sparks over any other exhaust. Butt all this junk about it hurting is not true at all. They simply would not sell a product at 600.00 thats going to hurt anything at all.

[JOHNDOE83]

Originally posted by 426kidz
let me putt this in simple terms, Sparks is a leader in this field. If there product hurt your motor or didnt increase your power and maximize your performance they would not sell them and no one would love them like everyone does. Yes cam's, carbs and motor work is a must. My bike is as built as it can get so I prefer going with the sparks over any other exhaust. Butt all this junk about it hurting is not true at all. They simple would not sell a product t 600.00 thats going to hurt anything at all.

I believe they were talking about something else hurting the motor not the sparks pipe.

[426kidz]

no, they are talking about the diameter of the header, saying too much flow is bad...

[RNL]

Originally posted by 426kidz
let me putt this in simple terms, Sparks is a leader in this field. If there product hurt your motor or didnt increase your power and maximize your performance they would not sell them and no one would love them like everyone does. Yes cam's, carbs and motor work is a must. My bike is as built as it can get so I prefer going with the sparks over any other exhaust. Butt all this junk about it hurting is not true at all. They simply would not sell a product at 600.00 thats going to hurt anything at all.

I just didn't want a top end power kind of pipe.

[426kidz]

well, as you know if you want low end power, get a sparks exhaust, stage 2 cam, get better gearing. your not going too lose bottom end power with a sparks. It all depends on how into it your going and willing to get. If you want to make power and have low end fun you can either do a slip-on and little things like gears or you can go big and do it all. I did mine little by little and I just found myself always wanting more and I think mostly all of us find our self in that situation.

[426kidz]

I went back and looked at your orig. post, I think when people say they lose top end power its more of a thing where the exhaust is alot louder than what they had so when they are pinned and the bike is screaming it may feel like they are going slower. I don't see anyone having dyno charts to prove this. I will have mine up and running soon check my build out and ill let you know how it works!;)

[RNL]

Originally posted by 426kidz
I went back and looked at your orig. post, I think when people say they lose top end power its more of a thing where the exhaust is alot louder than what they had so when they are pinned and the bike is screaming it may feel like they are going slower. I don't see anyone having dyno charts to prove this. I will have mine up and running soon check my build out and ill let you know how it works!;)

Last time we rode the state trails before xmas, there was a guy that had a 2003 400ex. It had a full Big Gun exhaust, smaller teeth sprocket from what he said, and was just jetted with a UNI filter. That thing was pretty impressive must say, he rode wheelies like they were nothing. Adding a cam to the equation could make this thing alot of fun to trail ride. I'm just wondering how the powerband will be changed with re gearing for low end power. Going down a tooth in the front sounds like a common mod among trail and woods riders.

[DragonGunner]

Originally posted by 426kidz
no, they are talking about the diameter of the header, saying too much flow is bad...

That was me and what I said is true.....port out the exhaust, put the biggest header made on a stock machine and see what happens. Even a empty header pipe with no muffler has back pressure of some sorts....shoot, just don't run a header at all, should be lots of flow and make it faster....right? KTM ran into this problem back in 2003 when they mmade the mistake of making the head with MORE flow going out to a header pipe with more flow. They were all slower than the previous yrs. becuase of this. You want a bigger pipe with more flow then you need to build up the engine, otherwise you may find yourself slower with more flow and thats BAD.

[426kidz]

:rolleyes:


http://www.ljsoftware.com/Videos/Videos.htm


go down to the bottom and select the speed calculator and that will help you with your gearing and tire sizes. that will give you an idea as of what you will see with other gears

[odog]

sparks is the way to go and the more work you get done the more its going to help having the sparks exhaust.

[odog]

oh yea i switched from a procircuit t-4 slip on to my sparks and didnt lose any bottom end power i gained power every where especially on top end

[RNL]

Originally posted by odog
oh yea i switched from a procircuit t-4 slip on to my sparks and didnt lose any bottom end power i gained power every where especially on top end

before or after engine mods?

[hondaREX]

Johndoe, I actually just saw a bike on CL in New York. It had what the seller says was a rare shorty sparks. Can't find it right now but ill try to find the link later. Looked sweet. Bike was cheap too if I remember right.

[odog]

Originally posted by RNL
before or after engine mods? i had the engine modded but not the carb the carb help the modded engine out more than my exhaust did.

[RNL]

This kind of caught my eye as well, heard great things about it, plus it's adjustable for sound levels.

http://www.ctracing.com/400EXPipeRace.htm

[hondaREX]

Heres the link from my post on a CT exhaust where a member had a warning about the ceramic coated system.
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=498451

CT has been a favorite of mine since i got my EX, had plans to get the slip-on but they discontinued it only a few months before i was going to get it. I then missed a real nice CT full system on here. So i scooped up a sparks on here recently. I will be getting the "super" quiet insert and spark arrester and will let everyone know what i think before and after the inserts. The sparks is a very stout and impressive unit. Hope its performance will match the quality. I also fully believe that a race company wouldnt waste time or money if their system didnt work well, especially with the price they get.

[RNL]

Originally posted by hondaREX
Heres the link from my post on a CT exhaust where a member had a warning about the ceramic coated system.
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=498451

CT has been a favorite of mine since i got my EX, had plans to get the slip-on but they discontinued it only a few months before i was going to get it. I then missed a real nice CT full system on here. So i scooped up a sparks on here recently. I will be getting the "super" quiet insert and spark arrester and will let everyone know what i think before and after the inserts. The sparks is a very stout and impressive unit. Hope its performance will match the quality. I also fully believe that a race company wouldnt waste time or money if their system didnt work well, especially with the price they get.

For sure let us know how the different tips work out on sound and performance.