450r guru stumped

[xcracer416]

ok guys heres a good one. 2007 450er. stock down to the tires. when i got it i knew it didnt fire, no spark at the plug. I could tell there has been an attempt in the past to fix this problem. I asked the person i bought it from if they put a stator in it. to my surprise they said yes and it didnt have much riding on it. the previous owner said he rode it one day, it was perfect. the next day or so later went out to ride and it was like this. he put a new coil on this bike also. I had to put a new battery on it.

I get this bike home an go mad scientist on it with the wiring diagram. Since thats what i do on automobiles for a living. I checked everything except the stator, i dont have a peak voltage tester adapter for my (DMM)volt meter. I have perfect continuity for all my 12v circuits, i even load tested them. now my two green wires for ground were twisted together, so i soldered and heat shrink them and grounded them at the coil bolt. they had the temp sensor circuit connected to the coil and the coil circuit connected to the temp sensor. i thought tada thats the problem, nope i was wrong.

I than thought, lets test the cdi some how since they had the temp sensor wire wrong. I grounded it to turn the fan on, only the temp light lit and no fan. I then checked the fan ground side at the connector, no ground. I looked at the wiring diagram and seen it is controlled by ground from the cdi. I went to the cdi connector and grounded the fan and it came on. that let me know the cdi wasnt working the way it should.

I came to the conclusion that the cdi was in fact bad because of the fan issue, regardless of the no spark condition. even though a bad cdi could cause both problems. I bought a cdi, still the same problem. Is there a 12v or ground that goes through the stator or voltage regulator that powers up the cdi and i am overlooking it?

oh yeah, I searched alot of no spark threads. the throttle switch in the handlebars i had a spare connector so i tied the two wires together, and unplugged both carb sensors. I tied the clutch wires together so it would start in gear.

any solutions? Im not new to the 450r scene but new to an 06+ er

[the predator]

had a simlilar problem on a kickstart bike and ended up being a bad ground to the subframe through the rectifier ...i know it was a kicker compared to a e-start but a place to check... the powder coat was either to thick or wasnt cleared away enough to make a good ground connection.

[DnB_racing]

Check the connector at the cdi that has the tors wires in it there is a (green/ white stripe, a black, a grey\red stripe, and a pink) ..4 wires total

make sure the black on this connector has 12v to ground with key on ....on the +06er the cdi has power in this part of the cdi, without it no spark

then cut the green/ white in the same connector....green wire mod

then splice either the pink or grey\red wire from cdi to the harness side of the green\white wire you just cut.... this is tors bypass right at the cdi, again without one of these grounded no spark (tors safety)

[xcracer416]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
Check the connector at the cdi that has the tors wires in it there is a (green/ white stripe, a black, a grey\red stripe, and a pink) ..4 wires total

make sure the black on this connector has 12v to ground with key on ....on the +06er the cdi has power in this part of the cdi, without it no spark

then cut the green/ white in the same connector....green wire mod

then splice either the pink or grey\red wire from cdi to the harness side of the green\white wire you just cut.... this is tors bypass right at the cdi, again without one of these grounded no spark (tors safety)

I know the black wire in this connector is 12v. I load tested it, and ohmmed it also. I have the HRC jumper so the green wire is already eliminated. I will have to try the tors at the cdi. I unplugged the tors connector beside the fan connector and used a spare connector to go in its place with both wires soldered together.


I just read what you was talking about the tors bypass at the cdi.

DnB.......what is your take on the fan? with the key on, if i ground out the Coolant temp sensor all i get is the red light on the dash panel to come on, but the cdi does not ground the fan.

[desratt]

Coil must have a good ground also. I've had that one kill me in a race

[dober250R]

It could be a lot of different things. Don't overlook the easy targets... fuses, key switches, etc. Did you try to put a screw driver across the 2 terminals on the coil? Heck, this clown could've tried to put a kill switch in and cut a wrong wire somewhere. Look for a random cut wire.

[DnB_racing]

I once saw were someone mixed the connectors for the key crossed it to the temperature. Neutral Light Connector

[desratt]

Im assuming it's turning over.

[xcracer416]

oh yeah it turns over great with no problems using the starter button and key switch like normal. i did go and verify the grey and red wire for the tors has been grounded correctly on the cdi side. the black wire in the same connector is a good 12v, green wire removed in same connector. I am at a loss on where to even go without throwing parts at it. my wallet isnt that good right now.

i am beginning to think there is a 12v that has to come from the voltage regulator or stator for the cdi to funtion properly. but then again im brain storming.

i do know for a 100% fact that the wiring harness has checked out good.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by xcracer416
oh yeah it turns over great with no problems using the starter button and key switch like normal. i did go and verify the grey and red wire for the tors has been grounded correctly on the cdi side. the black wire in the same connector is a good 12v, green wire removed in same connector. I am at a loss on where to even go without throwing parts at it. my wallet isnt that good right now.

i am beginning to think there is a 12v that has to come from the voltage regulator or stator for the cdi to funtion properly. but then again im brain storming.

i do know for a 100% fact that the wiring harness has checked out good. there is 12 volts to the cdi from the black wire in the 4 wire connector and you have already checked that,

make sure the black/white stripe wire has no continuity to ground, this is your kill circuit it will have continuity only when kill switch is on, if grounded maybe a bad kill switch

[xcracer416]

i will check that. yeah everything on the 4 wire connector is what it is supposed to be. i am sure ive checked the black/white wire but it never hurts to recheck.

[DnB_racing]

if everything checks out good electricaly it could be a timing issue, or even a bad bearing that's left metal flakes on the magnet in the stator causing the no spark


pull the filter and check for any sign of metal if the oil hasn't already been changed,

then make sure your timing marks are lined up on the cam

[desratt]

Valve timing wouldn't effect no spark. But a dirty stator might never had it happen but never say never. There isn't a tether kill switch is there? Or was there?

[xcracer416]

no tether was ever on the bike. im gonna order another stator. the fan issue might be another problem.

[blacknblue#2]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
if everything checks out good electricaly it could be a timing issue, or even a bad bearing that's left metal flakes on the magnet in the stator causing the no spark


pull the filter and check for any sign of metal if the oil hasn't already been changed,

then make sure your timing marks are lined up on the cam

Ive seen shavings from a bad crank ruin a stator. Those little slithers can ruin your weekly paycheck lol...Well in my case monthly

[desratt]

Check for short at voltage regulator again.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by desratt
Check for short at voltage regulator again. for the benefit of those that have never ran into this I guess I should have explained why I said timing....
for what its worth timing can be off because of a sheered key producing no spark, but yes I do doubt its timing issue, but that's an easy check and worth looking into if all else fails

but why do you think voltage regulator?

the voltage regulator is to regulate the rectified to dc from ac current and supplies only the auxiliary system and battery dc voltage it can produce up to approximately 16-18DC volts if needed and the additional voltage not used by the system after charging and full load is dissipated through the heat fins on the regulator by resistors

the coil side of the cdi is the high voltage ac side of the windings, the only DC required to start the +06er is the 12volts to the low voltage side 4 wire cdi connector he has already verified, the AC voltage total to the plug is up to 60,000 volts ac .. the stator puts out the brunt of the volts then sends to high side of cdi to boost a little more and to coil to further boost the voltage

if I had to guess if he's gone through the whole harness and electric system real good, and its a new stator either the new stator is bad or like suggested previously shavings are shorting it out

if you have a fluke with a min max hold you can test the peak volts of all your components and that will show exactly what's happening

[suspension101]

I'd check the stator like dnb said. Should have a minimum of .7v from the pick up and 50v from the stator to power the CDI. Also make sure the ground to the CDI is good (may have already done this).

[desratt]

Your right on the regulator. I actually removed it from my bike. I was going back on the fan issue. Make sure flywheel is spinning and not missing the key as stated above

[xcracer416]

im going to stay the weekend at one of my racing buddies house over the weekend and we are going to swap out parts off of his running parts bike. it has in fact stumped me, i have seen stators with several hours on them go out. i guess a low hour stator can go out just as quick as an older one.

I took the oil filter out, he didnt change the oil before i bought it. the filter was to my surprise clean. I didnt pull the cover to check the flywheel since i didnt find any obvious particles on the filter or housing.

i will post an update on what it was, even though we all know its probably the most expensive part on the system.

[xcracer416]

ok guys i fired it up friday night at my buddies house. we checked everything i had already checked, swapped with a cdi that we knew ran his bike, the thing still wouldnt fire. pulled the side cover off and slapped one of the extra side cover/ stator he had and boom she started.

i looked at my stator, and the jack wagon that installed the previous stator didnt tighten up the pulse generator bolts enough and it came unclipped causing my problem.


thanks for all yalls help, it had me stumped and i will have to remember this case.