OMA Youth Class Help!

[josborn]

Alright guys Im charged with the daunting task of figuring out the rules for the youth classes for the OMA (ohio motocross association). More info at www.omxa.net . Heres the deal, at the local level we feel that due to time restraints we need to limit ourselves to about 8 Atv classes, We have made some changes from whats on our website already, we now have 4 big quad classes (all 15+), and four youth. The four youth are Schoolboy 300cc 12-16, Mini Sr. (90 based, 125cc max.-12 and under), Mini Jr. (70cc-9 and under), and Mini Beginner (8 and under-50cc). Now the golden question, which of the these do we make mod, and which do we make stock? From what I can tell, the youth quad manufacturers are way out of hand, why so many different levels/types of ATV? I get that not everyone can afford a custom mod or shifter, but dang its very confusing to read the through and sort which quad goes where.

My thoughts are keep the 50 stock, 70cc cvt class, and 90 mod/shifter. Whatcha think?

[skyeryder]

I personally wouldn't make it a 50 stock class 8 and under 50 open there will be too much arguement over what is stock plus it might keep some riders away that have just a few mods done to their quads. I like your classes wish Indiana was like that. Also the 70 class might as well be open also, by making it CVT you are making the 70cc cobras run with the 90's these CVT motors have came along way as far as HP. I'll have to check out your website.
Also I guess alot of it comes down to number of youth riders you have??? I have 2 cobra 70's so try not to make it CVT only....

Just looked at your tracks wrong side of Ohio for us that's too bad looks like a good series

[josborn]

Thanks for the input, that seems to be the challenge; figuring out how to include the cvt for the budget racer, but to not leave out the guys that want to race the mods too, but yet keep it fair!!!

The true answer is 70 cvt, 70 mod, and likewise with the 90's, but I think we are already pushing our luck with 8 classes. It would be nice if someday if we could split quad and bike days, then we could have more classes.

[thequadfather+2]

This is just an idea, make all three classes mod classes or "open". If you start to attract a significant number of riders that are running stock quads then add/change 1 or more classes to stock. Just make all classes "production" classes and dont worry about shifter, cvt, auto's or single speeds.

I wish all promoters and tracks all over the country would get on the same page, narrow the number of classes available and the market will follow. Builders will not keep building quads that don't have a class to run in and we wont keep buying quads that have no where to race.

6 youth classes

50 stock-50 open
70 stock-70 open
90 stock-90 open

[bigdaddy77]

This is one of these questions That there is truly no right answer for. The Quadfather is on to something but I dont think you will ever see it. Check out the TMXA website. They are close but dont have it exactly right. 90 mod has to run the 70cc-300cc class at TMXA races.
My advice is to have the 90,70 and 50 all open classes to start the season and then have a beginner class for 0cc- 90cc 2stroke and 0cc- 125cc fourstroke (or 150cc fourstroke lol) . 1st year racers only. But i would also keep it open minded that classes may change depending on turnout.
My thoughts on a beginner class is we were new to racing 2 years ago and at age 7 we jumped right into the 90 class. But I know for a fact that we have scared off new racers because of not being able to compete and no beginner class. Too many kids show up on stock quads and you never see them again. For us it motivated us to upgrade our equipment and train harder but not everyone can afford to .

[nitrofish]

Jeremy, I am basing this on what I seen this past year in the local series in AMA and CRA.


1) 50 Open (4-8) Production. AMA rules. This will allow the DRRs,Cobras and the Japanese machines. I just don't think we have enough inferior brands showing up to give them a true beginner class as in the Suzuki LTs and such, they do show at fair races and unfortunatly they are not competetive. Nor do we have enough stock limited machines. Most 50s in these parts are DRRs and are not stock, usually 4-6 machines.


2) 70 Open (6-11) Production. This will allow the DRRs, Cobras and Apexs and the like. It will keep out the modified machines aka shifter quads. This is the biggest class in our parts right now, usually 8-12 machines. This class should actually be a bit larger this year with several kids moving up from the 50s.

3) Mini Quad Open 8-15 yrs. old* Similar to current CRA class.
70cc - 104cc 2 stroke
90cc - 125cc 4 stroke
*includes any factory equipped mini quad with a manual clutch
This class was also very popular last year and continues to grow.

4) School boy ? Which would include 300cc machines and mods? I'm not very familiar with what has been going on in this class.

I think Mr. Dusenberry could help out alot, he is local and very familiar with rules and classes. Give some input Rocky. The OMA is giving the quad community a chance to have some input, we don't get that oppurtunity anywhere else. Just remember Jeremy and Jason are trying to keep the days short and have good solid gates. Matt.

[josborn]

Thanks Matt, I was gonna call you about this, but I lost your number, I was kinda thinking what you are,i just didnt know how to say it in technical jargon.

[Logan #34's Dad]

I like it just as Matt proposed. Then Basically you tell the dad's that if enough machines show up to open another class you will gladly do it. Only adjustment I'd make to Matt's suggestion is to allow up to 150 AIRCOOLED in the "Mini Quad Open 8-15 yrs. old" class. This allows the Pitster Pro a competitive place to be. And 125cc aircooled is not enough to compete against the 90 - 104cc 2stroke.. I had one of the strongest 125cc Honda's out there - I know.
As far as the 300 class. Make it: 105-200cc 2stroke, 150 - 250cc WATERCOOLED 4stroke, 200 - 300cc AIRCOOOLED 4Stroke. NO PRODUCTION RULE...
I'm trying very hard to get the ATVA to do it this way to keep costs down but.....(They currently want to just make it 300cc 4stroke....That makes the cost of building a liquidcooled 4stroke go out the roof...keep it stock 250 and cost stay down...IMO.

[nitrofish]

Thanks Rocky, good point on the 150 deal. There ya go J.O looks pretty good.

[josborn]

We are currently building a 250f hybrid for the nephew. I guess I'm curious as to what makes a difference if its 250cc or 300cc? I guess my thoughts are if your building one of these, a piston and a cylinder are a drop in the bucket.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by josborn
We are currently building a 250f hybrid for the nephew. I guess I'm curious as to what makes a difference if its 250cc or 300cc? I guess my thoughts are if your building one of these, a piston and a cylinder are a drop in the bucket.

Well, If it were only that simple. A bigger jug/bore is going to require the head to have work to be done. More than likely you'll need a stroker crank too.....to get to 300cc. Give a call to one of the engine builders and get the cost of building a 250f into a 300f.....
Head work will be done by all these teams i'm sure....$$$ which they'll do even if it's a 250...

[josborn]

I think head work and a camshaft will be done anyway, even at 250cc's. Guys are gonna do that. I dont see many guys taking them to 300cc. I dont really see the advantage. We have Pro bike guys that race 250fs as fast as the 450 guys. I dont think 50cc on modern fourstrokes will matter as much as taking the 250cc engine and making it perform at the optimum.

Thats a good suggestion, but it will create pissing matches that we dont need. If some guy runs a machine at the nationals, and everyone knows its 300cc, and he beats a kid on a 250. There will be protests, beers thrown, and who knows what else.

[jayhilltop]

Any one know if the CRA changed the rules for 50cc mini Quad? There was some problems running a kfx 50 with drr 50s. Just seeing if any thing changed. Thanks

[nitrofish]

Originally posted by jayhilltop
Any one know if the CRA changed the rules for 50cc mini Quad? There was some problems running a kfx 50 with drr 50s. Just seeing if any thing changed. Thanks really? Where did you encounter problems with that. According to the rules it states 50cc production quad, with tether kill switch and axle width limitations. We seen them at several CRA functions. OMA will include these machines in the 50 class I'm sure. We all started there at one point.

[jayhilltop]

It was at amherst guy wanted to split kfx/stock quads and drr/apex into Sep. Class.

[nitrofish]

Originally posted by jayhilltop
It was at amherst guy wanted to split kfx/stock quads and drr/apex into Sep. Class. oh, ok. Not a bad idea if there are enough of the KFXs and LTs. Most tracks run them together. See ya at the tracks, check out the OMA this year it should be sweet! Matt.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by josborn
Thats a good suggestion, but it will create pissing matches that we dont need. If some guy runs a machine at the nationals, and everyone knows its 300cc, and he beats a kid on a 250. There will be protests, beers thrown, and who knows what else.

You are right...keep your class very close to what is ran at the national so you can pull those kids when they can make it....

[jay-r]

These are all very good suggestions. What ended up working in the TMXA with the 50 class is this. There is a 4 to 8 50cc production class. Then, they added what they call a "special 50" class. I don't like the name, but it is basically for non race machines (lt50, kfx50, raptor 50, chinese yard quads, etc.) No drr, apex, cobra, allowed. This is a non-points class for first year racers only. Allows parents to gauge themselves and their child's take on the sport before spending big bucks. Keeping it a non championship class keeps the motivation there to move up to the next class. This class has been very successful bringing in new riders. Before this class, first time racers were scared off by the faster riders and never came back. If you are worried about time concerns, double gate them behind the PWs.

My suggestion is:

0 to 50 Beginner (non race quad only)
0 to 50 4 to 8 open
0 to 70 6 to 11 open (allow up to 90cc 4 stroke)
0 to 90 8 to 15 open (allow up to 150 4stroke air cooled)
70 to 300 open (70 to 200cc 2 stroke, and 90 to 300cc 4 stroke)

This gives most riders more than one class to run and will keep several on the gate. Also allows true beginners a place to run. Might possibly make the beginner class a 0 to 70cc non race quad. For the beginner class, should probably have an approved quad list, don't allow suspension changes. Wouldn't worry too much about engine mods, just legal engine size. People "shouldn't" spend too much $$ on a non race quad to run a non points class for one season.

Good luck.

[nitrofish]

Originally posted by jay-r
These are all very good suggestions. What ended up working in the TMXA with the 50 class is this. There is a 4 to 8 50cc production class. Then, they added what they call a "special 50" class. I don't like the name, but it is basically for non race machines (lt50, kfx50, raptor 50, chinese yard quads, etc.) No drr, apex, cobra, allowed. This is a non-points class for first year racers only. Allows parents to gauge themselves and their child's take on the sport before spending big bucks. Keeping it a non championship class keeps the motivation there to move up to the next class. This class has been very successful bringing in new riders. Before this class, first time racers were scared off by the faster riders and never came back. If you are worried about time concerns, double gate them behind the PWs.

My suggestion is:

0 to 50 Beginner (non race quad only)
0 to 50 4 to 8 open
0 to 70 6 to 11 open (allow up to 90cc 4 stroke)
0 to 90 8 to 15 open (allow up to 150 4stroke air cooled)
70 to 300 open (70 to 200cc 2 stroke, and 90 to 300cc 4 stroke)

This gives most riders more than one class to run and will keep several on the gate. Also allows true beginners a place to run. Might possibly make the beginner class a 0 to 70cc non race quad. For the beginner class, should probably have an approved quad list, don't allow suspension changes. Wouldn't worry too much about engine mods, just legal engine size. People "shouldn't" spend too much $$ on a non race quad to run a non points class for one season.

Good luck. I love the idea of the little quads running behind the PW bike class, but unfortunately the dirtbike parents in these parts seem to be so anti-quad that they would whine about it. The mod (shifter quads) is big around here now 70s and 90s so they need a class themselves. Good ideas, thanks for the input!