xr650l hybrid

[russellsroost31]

hey has anyone ever done a 400ex/xr650L hybrid
the xr650l motor is an aircooled motor si i figure itd b pretty straight foward in building

[JOHNDOE83]

There actually is a xr650l hybrid build here somewhere.

Theres also one on youtube, the guy that was on here is actually over at atvdragracers.com and still has his 400ex/650l hybrid.

Its actually a really good motor to use for a variety of riding and racing options.

I would also like to see a xr500 hybrid.

[BlasterEaten250]

It's actually a pretty easy swap if I remember right

[jman7290]

A guy on EBay had a frame with a xr650 motor and exhaust, and a few other things for sale.

[DragonGunner]

Go to the HYBRID section on here and you will find what you want. It was a strong cosideration, but after some research I didn't like the weight, that they seemed to run hot, anyway I decided the super lightweight strong HP and reliable KTM motor is what I wanted.......lots of motor mods and how to's in the Hybrid section.....good luck.

edit: it was the xr650r motor that seemed to run hot and had issues...the 650l is pretty reliable.

[russellsroost31]

ok thanks guys
but does the xr650 l have good power

[JOHNDOE83]

lol, yes the xr650l has massive power.

[russellsroost31]

oh haha umm would it b anygood on a mx track

[BlasterEaten250]

I thought the 650l's weren't anything special...somewhere in the mid 30's with horsepower. The 650r's are beasts though. (but harder to swap into a 400ex frame)

[JOHNDOE83]

actually a xr650l has about 61hp stock.

If a 400ex motor weighs 100lbs id bet the 650l weighs alot more, probally not the best for mx racing.

[BlasterEaten250]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
actually a xr650l has about 61hp stock.

If a 400ex motor weighs 100lbs id bet the 650l weighs alot more, probally not the best for mx racing. 650L's have low 30's. 650R's have mid 40's to low 50's.

[DragonGunner]

Originally posted by BlasterEaten250
650L's have low 30's. 650R's have mid 40's to low 50's.


This^^^ The 650L is more on torgue than high horsepower and believ it weighs in at close to 110 lbs. compared to the 400EX 92lbs. At least thats what my 400EX motor weighed on my scale when I took it out, the KTM 520 motor with around 52 hp stock was 62lbs.

[JOHNDOE83]

Well a 400ex motor weighs 92 pounds but the battery to make it run is about 8lbs so 100lbs is the number I give anyway.

Sorry the 61hp wasnt on a stock motor either but it was on a xr650l motor.

Still a 450r has about 33hp so I would think the other 200cc would put it atleast 40hp, a 400ex should be around 28hp and its based on the same concept as the 650l motor.

Its close and safe to assume that a 400ex puts out 7hp per 100cc, so adding 250cc to that style of air cooled motor would put you at 45hp "assuming" that 7hp per 100cc stays consistant which it doesnt.

Im still gonna remain positive that its over the 30s in HP and deff in the low 40s atleast until I see a actual dyno somewhere or actual hp rating.

[JOHNDOE83]

Heres the guy on atvdragracers.com this is a 400ex with a xr650l motor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmRYOe31CPI&list=UUkLnBegG2l1mZqQ1J8ODgfA&index=16

[ish416]

If you were to ride an XR400 and an XR650L back to back, they would be nearly the same speed and power with the only noticeable difference being the torque and slightly taller gearing on the 650L. If you were to ride an XR400 with just a pipe and rejet, they would make nearly the same power..

According to this dyno chart, the 2003 XR650L produces 31hp and 29.7lb ft.

http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoGallerys/bmw_vs_xr_dyno_5_23_03.JPG

Here is the full article .. HERE (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/11/497/Motorcycle-Article/2003-BMW-F650GS-Dakar-vs--Honda-XR650L-Conclusion.aspx)

Note that this was done on stock tires. So add 3 or 4 hp because knobby tires suck on dyno rollers.

So realistically, an XR650L should put down about 35hp and low 30's torque.

These engines, like most air cooled RFVC Honda's have a very low compression ratio. 8.3:1 to be exact.

They are also need a bigger cam, which Hotcams sells a stg 1.

Add, a 10.5:1 piston, a cam, exhaust, filter, rejet and you have a solid 10 hp gain (mid 40's) and an engine that will last.

[JOHNDOE83]

Wow, thats crazy.

I wonder why the hp stock is so low?

It appears that the aftermarket mods really open up these motors to produce some good HP, unfortunatly at the cost of the motor work, you could chose a much better motor.

When I went hybrid I chose the cr250r motor for the reason that it had high stock hp and only weighed 50lbs.

Whats even weirder is the xr500 has a 36hp rating?

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_xr500r%2079.htm

[ish416]

"Whats even weirder is the xr500 has a 36hp rating?"

That would be at the crank, not the tire.

At the crank, a 400EX makes according to Honda, 34.2 hp.

[ish416]

Here is the link to the California Air Resources Board for the 400EX. CARB 400EX TEST. (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/ofhrv/ofmcatv_comply/2008/honda_atv_um0030211_397.pdf)

25.5 KW is it's power rating.

1 kilowatt = 1.34102209 HP

25.5 kilowatts x 1.34102209 = 34.1960633 hp or simply 34.2 hp.

For comparison the 2008 450R makes 31.8KW or 42.64 hp.

I cannot find anything for the XR650L or XR600.

Here is the link to look through their database. ARB Database (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/cert.php)
Scroll to bottom of the page and under Green sticker you will find the year you want to look for. OFMC - Off-Road Motocycle and ATV is well .. ATV. They are listed by engine CC. So for the 400EX, it is 397cc. Look under Honda for 397cc and you will find it.

Red sticker is for closed course only. Like the CR/YZ/KX/RM etc.

[russellsroost31]

ok guys
now i race mx and i really dont like the 450s of today
even though i was raised around the modern tech old school still has a hold on my heart
now i want to build a hybrid what motor should i use
the xr650l
yz426
trx450r

[CJM]

04-05 450 motor or 06+ CRF motor. CRF motor is gonna be the most powerful stock. 04-05 450 has best trans however.

[russellsroost31]

i wonder if you can combine the bottom end of a trx 450 motor with the top end of the crf motor :eek:

[ish416]

Originally posted by russellsroost31
i wonder if you can combine the bottom end of a trx 450 motor with the top end of the crf motor :eek:

The 06+ 450R's are basically a stout bottom end with a CRF450X top end. There are a few differences.

The quad has lower compression, a different cam, a beefier crank, and slightly different head.

You can swap the head over but that creates it's own problems with the angle of the intake and running proper coolant lines. You will be better off with a ported 06+ TRX head.

If you want something close to 450 power or handling just get a 450.

If you want something unique, go that route. Just know that an XR650L with basic mods will be about equivalent to a 450 with basic mods with a bit more torque. Think Raptor 700 type power band.

If you want to go custom, go XR650R. Liquid cooled, easily capable of 50 horsepower with just basic mods, undefeated in Baja and probably the most solid, well developed engine ever built by Honda. Also, the engine weighs 88 lbs vs the 91 lbs of an EX. Of course, add in the liquid cooling and you would be above the EX engines weight but it wouldn't be enough to offset the handling much, if at all.

[Thumpin440ex]

I was really gung ho on doing this but after reading I fig it was worth it to just build the ex engine. It is lighter, responds very well to mods, it is some time, fabbing involved to get the 50 engine in there..



John

[JOHNDOE83]

For MX racing Ive been toying with the idea of building a super mini using a cr80 or cr125 motor in a lightened wider/longer 400ex frame.

Mx racing the 400ex was REALLY fun and impresive against the 450s and banshees, after building a cr250 hybrid and seeing the benefit of the lighter motor with more hp, really makes me wish I had raced a hybrid a long time ago.

Sure the cr80 hybrid would be slower then a 400ex, but the weight factor would make for some intense cornering and I bet will catch more air then a 400ex on the big jumps.

I bet I could build a super mini and possibly keep it under 200lbs.

For me it would be more fun factor then winning races, If you want to win in the 4 stroke world, I would go with CJM on the crf450r hybrid.

[russellsroost31]

i think id just get a 04-05 trx motor cause those things can take a beating

[06yfz450mxer]

I dont know much about the 650l motor in one but my brother has an ex chassis with the 650r engine in it and let me tell ya what its by far the most impressive quad i have ever had the joy of riding. Here is a pic of the engine area.

[tayyo789]

Either 650 build would be terrible for MX. The gearing is too tall, and it would only save weight if you were to use the 650R, due to the kickstart. They're both severely de-tuned from the factory, because of emissions standards, and that's why they both have such modest numbers. But believe me, they have serious power potential, and are extremely fun to ride. Either motor would be a lot more difficult to swap than you're probably thinking, as with every hybrid. There are so many little things that just don't fit, and parts, and hardware you can't use and have to improvise. It is not easy, and is not for the weak willed.
I wouldn't want these motors for MX racing, they are more suitable for trails, and especially dune riding.

[HondaRacing83]

put a cr500 motor in it

[DragonGunner]

I have a Dirt Wheels issue somewhere where they did a whole story on putting a honda 600 dirt bike motor in the 400EX, it was a good write up and photos. I think the Dirt Wheels crew is who did it, I can try and find it if you what to know the details.....

[06yfz450mxer]

My brother runs his on the mx track and it gets the job done. tayyo is right the are geared pretty tall but man do they produce some serious torque. Just dont stall it lol.

[HondaRacing83]

Originally posted by DragonGunner
I have a Dirt Wheels issue somewhere where they did a whole story on putting a honda 600 dirt bike motor in the 400EX, it was a good write up and photos. I think the Dirt Wheels crew is who did it, I can try and find it if you what to know the details..... i have this somewhere to it was an olddd issue they were building a desert bike

[russellsroost31]

i love 2 stroke to death but with all the new 4strokes comin out itd just be more difficult to keep up and ya gotta do alotta rebuildin

[HondaRacing83]

Originally posted by russellsroost31
i love 2 stroke to death but with all the new 4strokes comin out itd just be more difficult to keep up and ya gotta do alotta rebuildin id race a two stroke over a modern day four stroke anyday of the week. 250A class in mx have to rebuild 250f's every race. That adds up real quick

[JOHNDOE83]

Originally posted by HondaRacing83
id race a two stroke over a modern day four stroke anyday of the week. 250A class in mx have to rebuild 250f's every race. That adds up real quick

I agree, my cr250r hybrid would be a BEAST if it were set up for mx racing.

This 98 cr250r motor only weighs 45lbs, its also rated at 45hp stock. The power band on this thing would make you fly over jumps and be faster then the 450s easily.

The weight difference alone is worth the conversion, never mind the extra power!

But 4 strokes are taking over and soon the 2 stroke class will only be for vintage racing :confused:

Simply changing the weight of the atv drastically improves handling on the track, a 400ex motor with battery is 100lbs. if a stock 400ex weighs 374lbs roughly, more then a quater of that is motor weight.....wtf?

There is a rm250 400ex hybrid in the hybrid section, he built his the same time I did, his is for mx/trails mine is for drag racing.

He has a few videos, maybe you should check it out? His stock rm motor makes his EX on the same level as his friends modded 450r.