Motor overhall/Frame up dial in

[jjohns5]

Getting ready to put my motor back together. I've decided to go all out and build my bike back up focusing on the motor and powdercoat. I'ts a stock 04 and I put an updated crank all oem and I'm now waiting on all new oem gaskets, seals and a few other parts from Service Honda. New parts List on my mind at the moment will be:

Clutch: Hinson basket and cover at the least, possible full Hinson set up?
Bottom end: oem crank and bearing upgrade, moly coat on all the tranny gears and new oem gaskets.
Top End:Racers Edge AZ. will be doing their magic, Port, Cam, Piston, ect... I will have some dyno runs that should be pretty nice, but all that will come later...Been talking with John and I think we have it dialed for what I want.
Frame: undecided between textured black or gloss.
Radiator: Red CV4's on there way

That's all for now, here's some pics...

New crank

[jjohns5]

Motor

[jjohns5]

Pics

[jjohns5]

Pics

[jjohns5]

Pics

[Balaz_73*00]

Looking forward to this one! Little bit of my opinion, take it for what its worth. Ive been running full stock clutches for years on various built motors. Currently an mxp one, and have had zero issues. Unless you are going to a slipper setup, I dont think you'll be gaining anything. I have to agree tho, the Hinson covers are slick. I know from following other threads about this bike, this thing is fresh. Id ride the stock setup until it goes. That is unless you have holes burning in your pockets :p

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by Balaz_73*00
Looking forward to this one! Little bit of my opinion, take it for what its worth. Ive been running full stock clutches for years on various built motors. Currently an mxp one, and have had zero issues. Unless you are going to a slipper setup, I dont think you'll be gaining anything. I have to agree tho, the Hinson covers are slick. I know from following other threads about this bike, this thing is fresh. Id ride the stock setup until it goes. That is unless you have holes burning in your pockets :p

Yeah your probably right, I have new Hinson cover and will most likely run the stock clutch until it goes, I can put the money elsewhere Hinson isn't cheap!! I saved a little doing the bottom end myself and am enjoying every minute of it so far, my first split cases on a 450.

[jjohns5]

I was able to clean up all the gasket surfaces today on my cases and get them ready to go. A friend recommended using a small amount of mobile one red grease on all sides to get a good seal.

[ghott]

Very nice pics and info on this rebuild, I'm tuning in for more!

[Kovatch]

No gussets on the frame? Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't see any...

The normal dual mounts for the subframe. Tabs for lower subframe, etc...

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by Kovatch
No gussets on the frame? Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't see any...

The normal dual mounts for the subframe. Tabs for lower subframe, etc...

Possibly before powder, after I send the motor out and get all that squared away first.

[Balaz_73*00]

I'd highly recommend one, nothing worse than cracking a frame, especially after a full rebuild/powder. Lonestar makes a very nice kit, I have that on one of bikes. Teixeira Tech is similar too. What I'm super anxious about is the Six5 Designs kit I ordered last week. It should be here today, I'll chime in on what I think of it once I see it!

[jjohns5]

Took some advice straight from the Honda service manual and moly coated all the gears, they feel like butter and can see how this would be a good choice on adding some durability to the tranny.

[jjohns5]

Assembly

[jjohns5]

Bored 42.5 Fcr I will be using

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by jjohns5
Took some advice straight from the Honda service manual and moly coated all the gears, they feel like butter and can see how this would be a good choice on adding some durability to the tranny. jjohns5 when applying the moly are you putting on all surfaces (inside race and sides of thrust washers) or just the teeth themselves?

lol,,,, when you first said moly coat I thought you were going to moly coat paint them?? It sounded real strange to me. now I understand you, its pre lube, aren't you supposed to do a immediate kerosene flush prior to running when using moly to not affect the clutch plates?

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
jjohns5 when applying the moly are you putting on all surfaces (inside race and sides of thrust washers) or just the teeth themselves?

lol,,,, when you first said moly coat I thought you were going to moly coat paint them?? It sounded real strange to me. now I understand you, its pre lube, aren't you supposed to do a immediate kerosene flush prior to running when using moly to not affect the clutch plates?

Lol,,,, that's the deal with posting on these threads people get the wrong idea, I guess pics help...Moly to all the sliding surfaces of the gears and shafts. Moly to all shift forks and pins. Motor oil to all of the thrust washers and inside races (bearings), and shift drum groove guides. Grease to all of the oil seal lips. I'm not sure about the kerosene flush, but feel free to educate me, I will do some more research. I'm fairly mechanical, but no tech and the service manual helps a ton, thanks.

[jjohns5]

Put the tranny back in the left case. The shift drum pin is at 12 o'clock and both shafts spin freely so this should be considered neutral I believe. The only other part I have to watch is when I torque the drum bolt, sometimes this causes binding within the gears from what I've read. Main bearings and seals are new along with crank bearings just to be safe even thought they were within specs and felt good. Waiting on gaskets.

[jjohns5]

Did a quick dry fit this afternoon and shifted through all the gears spinning both shafts through every gear, found no binding, set it back in neutral for final assembly.

[jjohns5]

After reading and doing more research I think it's best to take a step back and have the crank balanced for my new piston to be safe while I'm into the bottom end. I've read too many lower rod bearing failures do to excessive vibration so it seems like a necessary step at this point of the build...

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by jjohns5
After reading and doing more research I think it's best to take a step back and have the crank balanced for my new piston to be safe while I'm into the bottom end. I've read too many lower rod bearing failures do to excessive vibration so it seems like a necessary step at this point of the build... good point!!

its only about 100-150 to have done, and will sadly add no power, but it will defiantly add to the longevity,

its one of the details to a quality build,
something you don't feel any improvements from, sometimes are the best improvements

[eastside 400]

i would suggest that you do not leave all the moly grease on the trans...moly is what makes wet clutches slip..the service manual says to use a moly based motor oil to lube the trans with. putting that moly grease on the gears is basically worthless because as soon as the engine starts running with the oil in it, the grease will be washed off the gears and end up causing the clutch to slip. putting moly grease on the pins and slides of the shift forks and drum would be okay though.

i wouldnt worry a whole lot about balancing the crank, it does help with longevity but its not totally neccessary, you can easily get over 100 hrs on a updated stock crank that is maintained properly. if you have the time and money to balance it though then go for it

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by eastside 400
i would suggest that you do not leave all the moly grease on the trans...moly is what makes wet clutches slip..the service manual says to use a moly based motor oil to lube the trans with. putting that moly grease on the gears is basically worthless because as soon as the engine starts running with the oil in it, the grease will be washed off the gears and end up causing the clutch to slip. putting moly grease on the pins and slides of the shift forks and drum would be okay though.

i wouldnt worry a whole lot about balancing the crank, it does help with longevity but its not totally neccessary, you can easily get over 100 hrs on a updated stock crank that is maintained properly. if you have the time and money to balance it though then go for it

Yep the moly grease should be a one to one ratio with oil I found that out after reading more, it has basically broken down now that I added some oil, thanks...I'm adding some HP and have heard that the motors run a little smoother balanced/trued/welded so I just want everything to be as good as it can be and for a couple hundred it seems like a safe idea.

[fmfhonda250r]

Crank works is like $200 and it runs smoother forsure. Run longer, i dont know about that i had a ballanced crank and oem crank both go 200+ hours on a motor with 14:! compression.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by jjohns5
Yep the moly grease should be a one to one ratio with oil I found that out after reading more, it has basically broken down now that I added some oil, thanks...I'm adding some HP and have heard that the motors run a little smoother balanced/trued/welded so I just want everything to be as good as it can be and for a couple hundred it seems like a safe idea. if you plan on not rebuilding every race season, and looking for true longevity then definitely don't cut any corners,

if LRD recommends balancing then Id have to agree with him, he's been in the business and his riders have been winning longer then most he must be doing something right..

look at what the top engine builders are doing, they are all truing and sometimes welding depending on HP...

they all cant be wrong....

I say balance if you can afford it, if not you will have that in the back of you mind now that its been beat to death lol

[jjohns5]

Pin weld and balance was recommended by a few people and my motor builder, I wish I could afford the friction reducing mod, but it will be better than a stock crank.

[jjohns5]

Most of the gaskets/seals ect... arrived and I decided not to cut any corners. I was looking over the frame and decided to get the Lsr gusset kit ordered and installed so it's going to the blaster next week. I put the sub back on for the fab work and I finally found someone local who can tig or mig it for a fair price. I would use leager400 (Jerry White), but he is in Indy, bummer. I found a hairline crack up by the shock mount already so this was the decision maker...

[jjohns5]

Honda gifts

[jjohns5]

Lsr kit is here, frame is blasted and I'm dropping it off to get tig welded today. My crank should be done by mid next week...

[jjohns5]

The same company "TC Fab" in Diamond springs local to me who does all of Works Connections' skid plates and so forth did an excellent job on getting the frame ready for powder, dropping it off tomorrow...

[jjohns5]

Frame tig welded

[jjohns5]

Rich 17 Racing came through on some bling

[jjohns5]

Back to the fab shop, can anyone spot the obvious problem?

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by jjohns5
Frame tig welded

Triangle Frame gussets are supposed to be at the bottom, motor won't fit, must of been smokin something good at this step, oh well easy fix!!

[martnmx288]

Awesome build John! This gonna be a sweet bike! Where did you get those sick flows?? ;)

How are you displaying your pictures? Going to be starting a very elaborate build soon I'd like to share here and your pics are perfect for this forum.

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by martnmx288
Awesome build John! This gonna be a sweet bike! Where did you get those sick flows?? ;)

How are you displaying your pictures? Going to be starting a very elaborate build soon I'd like to share here and your pics are perfect for this forum.

Just have a cheap canon powershot 8.0 mega pixels. Yes nice flows thank you again, looking foward to your build. I just picked the frame back up from the fab shop, lol so I'm still getting it to powder today it's fixed and ready...

[jjohns5]

The big FIX lol, Chris at TC fab worked late last night to make it right

[AtvKid4Eva]

looks good! :D Going black with the frame to match the swinger?

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by AtvKid4Eva
looks good! :D Going black with the frame to match the swinger?
Yeah it's like a 60% Textured black should be cool, it's always hard to decide on color so I'm playing it safe

[Kovatch]

Not sure if it's too late, but the lower subframe mounts are weak. See if your fab guy can add material to the bottom of the lower subframe mounts. I've even added a little bit of material to the top. Mostly on the left side, but take a look and give it some thought.

BTW, your build is looking great.

[AtvKid4Eva]

This is how my lower mount is gusseted. Its a Six5Designs kit..best kit ive ever seen.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d75/atvkid4eva/Gusset_zpsb56247ed.png

[jjohns5]

Didn't catch the lower mounts! We'll see how the Lsr kit holds up, the six five was an option and looks nice, but I have heard alot of good things about the Lsr kits, frames at powder.

[AtvKid4Eva]

yeah, i wouldnt worry about it, it woul take some HARD riding to bend or break that lower mount.

[jjohns5]

Frame's back

[jjohns5]

I like the texture, nice stuff...

[AtvKid4Eva]

Looks good! Mine is texture black as well and I'm very pleased with it.

How's the motor coming along?

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by AtvKid4Eva
Looks good! Mine is texture black as well and I'm very pleased with it.

How's the motor coming along?

Still waiting on the crank. I also ended up keeping my Walsh Hybrid so I may just go with a little milder motor build instead of the full port job ect... to save a little funds for the Walsh. As of now I will be changing to a stage 2 cam and a 12.1cp pump gas piston. Racers Edge will still be getting my buisness for all and including my 02crf engine when it comes time to go through it...Have my hybrid in the back of my mind now

[AtvKid4Eva]

i was browsinbg throught your build thread and i was wodnering why in one pic you have the hinson cover installed but in the later pics it has the stock clutch cover on it? Did you have problems with the hinson? I hope not because i just ordered one lol

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by AtvKid4Eva
i was browsinbg throught your build thread and i was wodnering why in one pic you have the hinson cover installed but in the later pics it has the stock clutch cover on it? Did you have problems with the hinson? I hope not because i just ordered one lol

No I still have it and will be putting it back on this time around. They are nice and hold a little more oil that can only be benificial.

[jjohns5]

Red cv4's, Rich 17 overflow delete

[jjohns5]

Other side

[jjohns5]

Pics

[jjohns5]

Lsr hubs

[Charles828]

Nice build!

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by Charles828
Nice build!
Thanks.
Put on the Front brakes, airbox, Rich 17 frame guards, oil cooler ect... waiting on the crank, I have a stage 2 and CP on the way from RE so I can finish up the motor and drop it in the chassis.

[jjohns5]

Pics

[twink07]

Hey dude long time no text lol Jerry got my hybrid right now redoing it lol and now I am long for hubs !!! Billet or something for 400ex

Thanks
Matt Moore

P.s quad looks really sweet

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by twink07
Hey dude long time no text lol Jerry got my hybrid right now redoing it lol and now I am long for hubs !!! Billet or something for 400ex

Thanks
Matt Moore

P.s quad looks really sweet

Jerry is the Hybrid master HAha. Last I talked to him he was picking up a Laeger. I just grabbed some Baldwin hubs and a few other goodies, starting to accumulate some parts slowly for mine. Good luck with your build, there're fun...

[jjohns5]

Not quite sure yet, but it looks like I'll have to notch the plastice where this Lsr gusset is has anyone had to do this? The pics look like it will fit, but it is a little off?

[Balaz_73*00]

Yup I had to do that with mine. I used a cutoff wheel and it came out really clean. I hope I dont have to do that on my TT kit.

[AtvKid4Eva]

I had to do this as well. Just use a dremel with a sanding disk. Very Easy.

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by AtvKid4Eva
I had to do this as well. Just use a dremel with a sanding disk. Very Easy.

Same way I did it, easy fix

[jjohns5]

Did a little this afternoon, Fit the plastics on so I could trim the fender where the gusset sits

[jjohns5]

Rear end on, caliper and lines ran

[jjohns5]

Took the cam out ready for the stage 2

[jjohns5]

Small, but important stuff...rebuilt the kicker

[jjohns5]

New Razrcross and some more essentials came today, I have a new set of champion in a box on there way. Piston and cam should be here next week and crankworks said the crank would be done this week, but no word yet damn they better be good, lol.

[jjohns5]

Hinson cover, timing plugs, sprocket washer

[fred400ex]

Nice build , perfect color combo IMO.

How do you like that walsh subframe ? Does the plastics, and seat line up well even if its at it's lower setting ? Thanks :)

[rooster300ex]

Very nice build. Just curious how you are able to spend this kind of money man?

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by fred400ex
Nice build , perfect color combo IMO.

How do you like that walsh subframe ? Does the plastics, and seat line up well even if its at it's lower setting ? Thanks :)

Thanks, I love the walsh sub. I'm only 5' 8" so the lowered sub makes it perfect for someome my size. I have the walsh seat washer so the seat sits right up to the tank like it should, but does tilt back a little where the rear fender comes up to the tank...barely noticeable I'll some pics when it all comes together.

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by rooster300ex
Very nice build. Just curious how you are able to spend this kind of money man?

Alot of hard work and saving my pennies for the love of atv's lol

[rooster300ex]

Originally posted by jjohns5
Alot of hard work and saving my pennies for the love of atv's lol

What kind of job do u have. I need to look in to this kind of work lol

[jjohns5]

Still no piston/crank/cam ect. for my trx, but the wheels came in and here's a sneak peak of some parts I've been accumulating for my Hybrid 250r geo...That will be a slow expensive process

[Groves187]

Hell with the TRX, finish up that Hybrid!

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by Groves187
Hell with the TRX, finish up that Hybrid!

Lol, yeah that'll be next, but Jerry still has it. He'll be posting another thread soon, finishing up his fab and sending it to me. I haven't even seen it in person yet...

[jjohns5]

Everything I need to finish this build up came in today, but I'll be working all weekend so I will get going on the assembly when I have some free time...

[jjohns5]

I put a couple hours in on the motor today. Here's a pic of the new piston going in and the balanced/welded crank, the next pic is where I threw in the towel for the day. I put the clutch on before the counter balancer doooh, so I ordered a new clutch lock washer...

[jjohns5]

Stay tuned...

[hondathumper92]

How do you get your cases so clean I'm bout to rebuild my engine like yours kinda

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by hondathumper92
How do you get your cases so clean I'm bout to rebuild my engine like yours kinda
Bike/motor has very low hours so pretty much just wiped them clean.

[Kawie450r]

Love this build! So clean and such nice parts.

[patrickj75]

Originally posted by hondathumper92
How do you get your cases so clean I'm bout to rebuild my engine like yours kinda

Try some scotchbrite pads.

[CJM]

2 things will clean the AL really good:

1. Eagle 1 mag wheel cleaner. This stuff ETCHES the metal, spray it on for like 30 secs and spray it off with a pressure washer or high powered hose. Leave it on to long and you gotta polish the metal

2. Scotchbrite pads and wheel polish.

[fasterz]

Hands down best way to clean the engine if its pulled is soda blasting it. Eastwood sells a small job blast kit I think they call it for like $35. It literally makes the aluminum like new and since its soda it's not an abrasive so it won't ruin anything just super clean. You will need a small compressor though I used my little craftsman 20 gallon. I made a post showing this a while back ill repost if your interested.

[hondathumper92]

Yeah that would be cool if ya did and when you do your can you do it while the motor still in tack just plug exhaust hole and your intake hole or how do you do it

[CJM]

Yea soda blasting is also super good as well if you got a compressor.

[brewster426]

Sick build dude.

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by brewster426
Sick build dude.

Thanks, I was in a hurry and pinched a ring trying to get the cylinder back on so I had to order a new ring set, should be here this week

[brewster426]

Wish I had the funds to build one like that. I'd already be halfway there if I would have skipped out on the indoor series around here. Awesome bike.

[jjohns5]

Valve cover coated Steel gray pearlescent along with the beadlock rings almost matches the Hinson cover motor should look clean.

[jjohns5]

still truckin lol

[jjohns5]

Rings came and with a little patience it went on like butter. Took scotch bright and warm water to the cylinder and gapped the rings at .014

[jjohns5]

This is where I'm at, still waiting on the clutch lock washer from service Honda. Cylinder head bolts are torqued to 40flbs.

[jjohns5]

I'll throw the flywheel on tomorrow and get the stator side squared away. May even get the cam in if I have time. Here is a preview of what the motor will look like.

[jjohns5]

Almost forgot some very important stuff, first time luck I fixed that today...

[jjohns5]

Front end shot

[jjohns5]

HC2 Cam install

[jjohns5]

Timing all lined up TDC, cam installed, lobes facing back (intake) and slightly up

[jjohns5]

Shims were close, but I changed two of them R exhaust from a 228 to a 225 and L intake from a 170 to a 165. I felt with the gauges and it was .005" on the intake and .011" on the exhaust. If I'm right from research the intake should be .006" +/- 1 and .011" on the exhaust +/- 1...

[eastside 400]

yes you are correct on valve clearance, i usually run the exhaust around .009 but the spec is .011+-.001

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by eastside 400
yes you are correct on valve clearance, i usually run the exhaust around .009 but the spec is .011+-.001

So how close do you really have to be?

I'm waiting on a stator gasket, I had a new one, don't ask...Service Honda tried saving me money and mailed my clutch locking washer it's been forever. A few more little things and I will be dropping the motor back in and finishing this build up, curious to see how it will run going from stock to adding the balanced crank, Hc2, 12.1 CP, and the bored Fcr; along with the Dasa intake and exhaust it should pull a little stronger.

[jjohns5]

As it sits now

[jjohns5]

Patiently waiting

[jjohns5]

I Dropped the motor in needed something to work on, I figured I can finish it up in the chassis.

[jigg14]

Originally posted by jjohns5
I Dropped the motor in needed something to work on, I figured I can finish it up in the chassis.
Your swingarm bolt is upside down :ermm:
Turn it so the W is right side up! Can't have a sweet build like this with an upside down logo! :cool:

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by jigg14
Your swingarm bolt is upside down :ermm:
Turn it so the W is right side up! Can't have a sweet build like this with an upside down logo! :cool:

Haha your right I fixed that.

Clutch lock washer and oil cooler o rings came today. Taking mine time and replacing a lot of little stuff. I'll be able to squeeze in a little more time on Friday.

[jjohns5]

Quick squeeze in today! Waiting on the exhaust gasket, hose clamp ect...

[jjohns5]

Need some rad fluid, almost have it all together. I was happy the 06+ carb fit perfect under the 08+ tank as far as just running the carb on an 05 I'm hoping it's just a plug in and go we'll see it seems like it will work. I pre jetted the card so I hope I'm close...finish soon.

[jjohns5]

Pulled it out, all new fluids, spark plug ect...we'll see how she runs!

[jjohns5]

Pic

[Zhutch7]

Rad build man! Ready to see it all buttoned up.

[jjohns5]

Originally posted by Zhutch7
Rad build man! Ready to see it all buttoned up.

Thanks, next time I tune in it will be complete.

[jjohns5]

Done, took it for a spin today, the bike rips, no leaks, solid!

[jjohns5]

Pics

[jjohns5]

another

[jjohns5]

a couple more

[jjohns5]

THE END, thank you!

[Balaz_73*00]

Bravo!! Looks awesome!!

[Kawie450r]

Looks great. Nice work

[Zhutch7]

Looks great! Have fun and be safe, God Bless!

[LeGaCyGiAnT124]

The bike looks great.

[Kovatch]

Bike looks great. One thing regarding your Rath's. I noticed (as would everyone else) that they get pounded from riding. Have your decal company make 1-1.25" x 14" or longer decals w/ 3 logos to cover the sides of your Rath's.

See some pictures of Upperman's nerfs. It helps a ton to keep it shining & stickers/decals are easy to replace.

Looks bad @$$.

[Zryder85]

Quad looks great!!

Ian @ SSiDecals makes thos strips. They are pretty sharp.

[jjohns5]

Thanks all, good thinking on the Rath nerfs they do sit in the line of fire, I'll check into that.

[kono993]

as much as i like seeing your build threads... GET OUT THERE AND RIDE IT NOW!!:D looks really nice tho man hope you enjoy it!

[jjohns5]

Bike is For Sale due to school in Aug...Thanks.