TENTATIVE 2013 ATV AMA Supplemental rules

[Logan #34's Dad]

http://www.atvmotocross.com/pages/rules/2013-tentative-supplemental-rules

Discussion?

[Logan #34's Dad]

One thing I noticed here. If a riders age can change to ride in the next higher class he/she is allowed to ride in that next "higher" class BUT once you make the move up - you can't go back down.
So, a rider that is 15 years old on January 1st is allowed to race in the 450 classes because he will turn 16 during that year....
Or, a rider that is 11 years old on January 1st is allowed to race in the 12 year old classes even if he does not turn 12 until December 30th....

[LT80]

Rocky, I read it as: a 450 class rider can race a 450 on or after his birthday.
Youth classes are as you stated. Jan. 1st.
There are no 450's in the youth classes. :)

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by LT80
Rocky, I read it as: a 450 class rider can race a 450 on or after his birthday.
Youth classes are as you stated. Jan. 1st.
There are no 450's in the youth classes. :)

I will agree with your opinion...
So, much for the 15yo on a 450 debate eh? It clearly states 16yo.

[rookiewrench]

With the wording from the paragraph that talks about age, it originally states you must be 16 y/o but then later it states:

"Youth riders who change age during the season, may advance to the next higher age class prior to their age change, only if they will become eligible for the class during the year."

I take it as if you are going to turn 16, for example, on June 6 you would be able to race the 450 class at the first event instead of waiting till your birthday. That is the way I take it. I think that is much better then allowing all 15 y/o to race that year. Let the debate begin!!!

[Ryko racing]

Rules with a gray area? Sounds familiar?

[camsdad]

Anything that states atv supplemental is another way of saying....this our our ball game,the rules are as stated,not necesariy so the racer can understand how me meant them.now our interpretation depends solely on whether or not we like you and how much money you have to give us....next they will tell you the AMA is responsible for the rule but I challenge you to call AMA and get them to take responsibility for anything.Ama wants nothing to do with enforcing atva rules,from my experience the promoters use AMA as a scare tactic.

[Ryko racing]

HMM. INTERESTING

[neveready]

It just basically means you either have to already be or turn 16 in 2013.

Makes perfect sense, if little Johnny or billy is 14 and turn 15 on march 20th he can't run a 450.

So 15 yes, but not to all of them. This is my take on it.

[mxdad423]

Well again the ATVA drops the ball, WAY TO GO........I just don't understand how all the other series can let the 15 year olds on the 450 but the ATVA can't, then they want to CRY that the numbers are down, WONDER WHY? One of the best series' is becoming one of the worst, really have to think about what we are going to do this year, the NEATV is a little more driving but they seem to run a lot better series, HMMMMMM, guess we will have to make a decision.

[mxdad423]

Here's another thing, they want to throw out the "PER AMA RULE" Sh*t, well lets see, doesn't the "AMA Rule" say the age for a 450 is 15? HMMMMMMM, just sayin.......

[neveready]

Unless something just changed, no one said a 15yr old couldn't ride a 450. So long as they turn 16 during the 2013 season.

This is how I keep reading it

[mxdad423]

Yea why change that, it's always went by what age you was as of the first event, so why not just make it 15 like every other series instead of making it confusing. So basically if you turn 15 as of March 23 then you should be able to run the 450 class. JMO

[Logan #34's Dad]

IF it is as Neveready states - I really like the idea. It is a little different from what we know - BUT a little change is good.
We all know there are kids that are 15 going on 16 that are fully capable of riding AND racing a 450 at a high level so I say let them roll.....

[ValloneRaceTeam]

I have seen some 13 and 14 year old kids run 450 at our local track and they let them run the 450 c class since they have raced there for years and the track knows they have a good head on their shoulders but my guess it is a legal thing, too bad because it seems like the 300 is getting smaller. But maybe that new class allowing 250 four stroke liquid motors might work, I think that is what I saw for JR?

[Ryko racing]

I understand the argument. But there will be MANY fathers that in an effort to go the CHEAP way toss their kids into the 450 class with the the can grow into it mindset.
That is a reciepe for disaster... I know a few kids can handle one but the Schoolboy classes are fine for the step up.
This is NATIONAL RACING there is NO cheap way unfortunately.
I dont want my son getting killed or paralized by landing on a younger rider that may or may not be ready for a 450.
( my son was big enough last year but it wasnt legal. So we made a choice to spend our money and build him a bigger 150. turned out it was the wrong choice . oh well its better than not racing for a year.


Justt my two cents. ( which is all i have left after last season lol.)

[Ryko racing]

Hey LT80 i kept waiting for my new keyboard. I finally got it fixed.....now i know what CAPS LOCK MEANS.........lmao.

Merry Christmas everyone. ( i think that is allowed ).

[LT80]

I was up there that weekend. You wasn't home. looked like a shady neighborhood so I didn't dare leave it.
SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMFAO!!!!:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
And a Merry Christmas to all also. :)

[Hetrick Racing]

6. Age: Riders must be at least 16 years old to compete in the Amateur classes. Age is based on the rider's age on the date of the event. For Youth classes, age is based on the rider's age on January 1, 2013. However, riders, including youth, who change age during the season, may stay in the class they started the year in, or may advance to the older division. Youth riders who change age during the season, may advance to the next higher age class prior to their age change, only if they will become eligible for the class during the year. However, once a rider moves to the next higher age class, they may not move back to the lower age class, per AMA rules. Points accumulated in one class do not advance with the rider to another class.

What is grey about this.
I think you are looking to complain about something

really guys
Amateur riders must be 16 !!!!

[Logan #34's Dad]

Mr. H, the "grey" area comes in at "however". It says riders (which means ALL riders) and it then adds youth in the sentence.
The word however supersedes/refers to the prior sentence.

[LT80]

"What is grey about this.
I think you are looking to complain about something"

OMG.. I cannot believe you said that Rich. These guys complain??
You would complain too if you had 10-20k into "pitbikes" then have to pay 20 bucks to practice or 5 bucks for 55 gals of water.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..HA.
I just kill myself at times..:devil:

[Hetrick Racing]

lol
As it states first
a rider MUST be 16
no grey,, black and white
The "however"is letting riders know they can move up a class in their own division,youth, amateur, pro-am.
EXAMPLE
If your rider is 12 and he/she turns 13 during the season that rider can move up to a 13 year old class( i.e within the youth division)although they cannot go back to the 12 year old class.
EXAMPLE #2
A rider that is 15 CANNOT MOVE up until his/her 16th birthday but on their birthday they are eligible to run an amateur class, that rider does NOT have to move up on his/her birthday if it occurs after JAN.1st,unless that rider chooses to.Again that rider cannot move back to the youth ranks or division after choosing to move up.

What is grey about this ???
AGAIN A RIDER MUST BE 16
didnt change anywhere through my example,, it is very clear.

[Ryko racing]

Rich, that is exactly how I interpreted the rule. It is really no different than in the past i dont think.

I dont see what the complaint is about?

[mxdad423]

The complaint is, why is the ATVA the only series not changing the age to 15? Ryco I understand what you and others are saying about bonehead parents, but again, I have not seen any of the other series have any elevated injuries with the 15 year olds on the 450's.
And yes the rule is different then before, the way it was before, you rode what class your age was the day of the event, so even if you were turning the age to move up in may, you could not race that class till then, not the beginning of the season just because you would be of age in the middle of the season. I have no complaint about that and I totally understand it, but just don't understand why even with the AMA changing the age to 15, why they won't? No use complaining about it anymore, what it is, is what it is. I will just wait and see what Brandon wants to do, if he would rather race the 450 this year, then we will be at the NEATV instead, if he is ok with the 300 1 more year then I guess we will go to the Nats, but they took 2 of the best tracks off the schedule, (Budds Creek, and Highpoint) so I know he was pretty pissed about that to, so who knows where we might end up.

Rich, you normally have all the answers, so what have you seen as far as the injuries with the other series? I have done a lot of checking and from what I have seen, there are no more then usual. Just curious, no one seems to want to answer that question, he** I have ask it 10 different times, wonder why?

[Hetrick Racing]

Rock
simple the National promoters choose not to allow it.
They have this right,,, is it correct,?
Is it not correct,,?
Its not for You or I to decide..
Sorry if you do not like their decision.
As far as everyone else,truly I do not care we race the ATVA NATIONAL SERIES
I am proud to say that.
Is it perfect ? No but neither are any other race series.
If you feel this strongly about it go race one of the others.
I would hate to see that but honestly I am tired of reading this bs all of the time.

[Logan #34's Dad]

For the record, I truly don't care how its read or interpreted. I know my rider is every bit of 2 years away from racing a 450. Dang kid only weighs 100 pounds! Ugg!
Im just saying that I can see how people could interpret this wording and be mislead.

[zach R 7x]

Rock, CRA and the new OMA have no classes for a 15 yr old kid to compete on a 450. All 450 and above classes state 16 and older and 18 in woodsman. If I want to run Zach on his new 450 , we have to run the open class or take a chance running the other classes until somebody complains, which they will if a 14 yr old beats their 16 yr old.....

I personally agree with the age rule at the national level....

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by zach R 7x
Rock, CRA and the new OMA have no classes for a 15 yr old kid to compete on a 450. All 450 and above classes state 16 and older and 18 in woodsman. If I want to run Zach on his new 450 , we have to run the open class or take a chance running the other classes until somebody complains, which they will if a 14 yr old beats their 16 yr old.....

I personally agree with the age rule at the national level....

The CRA has 2 different classes that a 15 year old can run a 450, Open quad and 4 stroke quad, the open quad rules say ALL age riders on any machine over 200cc, that means a 450, the 4 stroke quad says, any rider on a 4 stroke, that also means 450, so they can complain all they want, it's in black and white, no gray area, pretty easy to interprut.

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by Hetrick Racing
Rock

As far as everyone else,truly I do not care we race the ATVA NATIONAL SERIES
I am proud to say that.
Is it perfect ? No but neither are any other race series.
If you feel this strongly about it go race one of the others.
I would hate to see that but honestly I am tired of reading this bs all of the time.

I am just trying to get facts about if there has been elevated injuries since they have moved the age to 15, that's all. IDK, just confuses me, I always thought you followed the AMA guidelines at an AMA sanctioned event, but I guess you can make the ages for the classes what ever you feel, Whatever, no use bitc*ing, they never listen anyway.
To be honest, I could care less what we do, it is not my decision, it is whatever Brandon (the rider) decides he wants to do, that's what matters to me, that he is happy, not anybody else.............

[rookiewrench]

I have to disagree Zach R 7x... OMXA has 4 classes for 15 year olds

Quad Classes:

Quad A (15+)

Quad B (15+)

Quad C (15+)

Quad Open (15+)

At least that is the way that I read it but maybe others wll read it differently but I didn't see a "However" with it. lol

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by rookiewrench
I have to disagree Zach R 7x... OMXA has 4 classes for 15 year olds

Quad Classes:

Quad A (15+)

Quad B (15+)

Quad C (15+)

Quad Open (15+)

At least that is the way that I read it but maybe others wll read it differently but I didn't see a "However" with it. lol


Does this Omxa have a web site, I been trying to find it, but can find anything. may be interested in hitting a few of the races this year, especially if the 15 year olds can run the 450's

[ValloneRaceTeam]

Up here at our local track they can run 450 class at 14 years old.

[rookiewrench]

www.omxa.net

[mxdad423]

Thanks Rookiewrench..... I have to agree with you, don't see any grey in that, a,b,&c says 15+.
Thanks again for the link.

[thequadfather+2]

Originally posted by ValloneRaceTeam
Up here at our local track they can run 450 class at 14 years old.

Kinda like run what ya brung...only this time it's run who ya brung!!! LMAO.

Actually I'm sure there are some local tracks that dont have age limits. If they can swing their leg over it then put them on the gate.

Some kids can drive at 13, I vote we give them a CDL.:devil: I mean who the heck decided that you could be sent off to war at 18 years old but cant have a cold beer until your 21? we want to complain about a rule, lets complain about that one....

I guess everyone will just have to find the series that they are happy with and make the call. Sometimes it may just be better to run local stuff.....

I gotta agree with Rich, sometimes the complaining is a bit much.

[LT80]

"IDK, just confuses me, I always thought you followed the AMA guidelines at an AMA sanctioned event,"

key word: promotor discretion.
The ama indeed has guidelines. Their interpretation of guidelines is: Do something sorta like this.
The promotors group does exactly that and makes their own rules.
IMO, they do a good job at it compared to the joke of ama congress (mostly road bikers) dictating race rules. Ask anyone that has been a ama congress person.

[ValloneRaceTeam]

Originally posted by thequadfather+2
Kinda like run what ya brung...only this time it's run who ya brung!!! LMAO.

Actually I'm sure there are some local tracks that dont have age limits. If they can swing their leg over it then put them on the gate.

Some kids can drive at 13, I vote we give them a CDL.:devil: I mean who the heck decided that you could be sent off to war at 18 years old but cant have a cold beer until your 21? we want to complain about a rule, lets complain about that one....

I guess everyone will just have to find the series that they are happy with and make the call. Sometimes it may just be better to run local stuff.....

I gotta agree with Rich, sometimes the complaining is a bit much.

I wasn't complaining, just pointing that out, we only make a couple of National races as some are too far and to much money for our little team to travel to all races. My guess is after the 90 mod class for my son we will try the 250-300 class just hope they run the liquid cooled motors as that should keep cost down for us.

[hanker]

Does anybody remember why 3- wheelers got banned...? :confused: :confused: Just saying.....

[thequadfather+2]

Valloneraceteam, I know-sorry wasnt trying to beat on your post. Just was picturing a good ole fashion late night street/drag race where there are no rules...one of those places where everyone just shows up to race.

My wife is an ER nurse and (last year) she had a 12 year old kid that broke his arm on a 450 in arenacross. The parents were talking like it was funny and cool that he was only 12 and how he could ride/beat 17 year old kids.

[zach R 7x]

Sorry guys on the bad info.... I was going by what I was told by the CRA officials and people I talked to about the new OMA( not the OMA officials). OMA rules were not posted when I made that comment.

Good for us if this is all true though. Alot more classes to run means more seat time for us!

[mxdad423]

Ok, honestly everybody, I think for the most part the ATVA does a nice job with the Naitonals, I said it time and time again how all the races are organized pretty well, and we do have some really good racing. I just don't see where it is such a big deal. Just look at it this way, some say 15 is to young right, but yet they are ok with the new rule to where lets say johnny over here turns 16 in August that makes him eligible to race the 450 all year, so that means for pretty much the whole year he will be racing the 450 at age 15, see where I'm going with this, why not just make it 15 and be done with it. The other complaint I hear from a few of you is well the 15 year olds out there with the 16 and 17 year olds is dangerous because they are more mature, so how is this different from a 8 year old on a 90 on the track with a 15 year old? Or a 13 year old on a 300 with a 15 year old, or a 6 year old on a 70 with a 11 year old, see what I'm saying. I know I am just beating a dead horse and I'm sorry, I won't say anymore, but hopefully some of you that got this shot down maybe will see a little clearer with the points I just made.

[neveready]

My best guess would be rather than pound the keyboard here in frustration to contact the ATVA or the promoter group. It just seems the frustration is coming from the guys with a 15yr old kid. I myself have one..., but however the ruling falls we'll deal with it for one more year.

I think the line at just saying 15 is pushing it though. and i agree with the ruling if it's how I'm interpreting it, and thats so long as a rider turns 16 during 2013 they can move up for round 1, but then if they're getting thrashed out there and made a miserable choice, you cant move down.

Most states allow a kid the age of 15 1/2 to operate a motor vehicle with a permit, so even though little billy at 12 who drives all over the farm and backroads drives great doesn't mean we now throw a fit because it'd be more convenient if he could just drive everywhere.

Rules are just that... sometimes they suck when they dont weigh in our favor but they're set for a reason, and it's usually for safety.

Enough on my end, but I can say I did drop an email asking for clarification of the amendment. I'm still awaiting reply so I'll post when I hear back.

[greenmachine70]

Originally posted by Hetrick Racing
lol
As it states first
a rider MUST be 16
no grey,, black and white
The "however"is letting riders know they can move up a class in their own division,youth, amateur, pro-am.
EXAMPLE
If your rider is 12 and he/she turns 13 during the season that rider can move up to a 13 year old class( i.e within the youth division)although they cannot go back to the 12 year old class.
EXAMPLE #2
A rider that is 15 CANNOT MOVE up until his/her 16th birthday but on their birthday they are eligible to run an amateur class, that rider does NOT have to move up on his/her birthday if it occurs after JAN.1st,unless that rider chooses to.Again that rider cannot move back to the youth ranks or division after choosing to move up.

What is grey about this ???
AGAIN A RIDER MUST BE 16
didnt change anywhere through my example,, it is very clear.
For all of you guys saying a rider can ride the 450 class as long as he turns 16 during the season seem to be illiterate! Read what Mr H has written here. It is quite simple, they can NOT ride the 450 class until they TURN 16.......they can then make the jump but they can NOT go back......I don't have a dog in this fight but dang it seems like some on here are still arguing a myth.....

[mkeane]

i copied this right off the site. it says"Youth riders who change age during the season, may advance to the next higher age class prior to their age change, only if they will become eligible for the class during the year"

i dont see how you can read this any other way






Age: Riders must be at least 16 years old to compete in the Amateur classes. Age is based on the rider's age on the date of the event. For Youth classes, age is based on the rider's age on January 1, 2013. However, riders, including youth, who change age during the season, may stay in the class they started the year in, or may advance to the older division. Youth riders who change age during the season, may advance to the next higher age class prior to their age change, only if they will become eligible for the class during the year. However, once a rider moves to the next higher age class, they may not move back to the lower age class, per AMA rules. Points accumulated in one class do not advance with the rider to another class.

[neveready]

And again we beat the keyboards...thatll get it!! lol

[Logan #34's Dad]

Can someone post an email that ppl can send there thoughts too?

[thequadfather+2]

I think the confusion comes from "youth" and "amateur"..... I just thought a youth rider may move up if the birthday falls within the season after Jan 1st, but Amateur riders must use their birthdate.... The two divisions are seperate. A youth rider cant move to an amateur class until his birthdate just like any other amateur class.


The two divisions seem as if they are treated differently accordingto the rules. I am just pointing that out, not saying it is right or wrong.

[LT80]

dean@gnccracing.com

[greenmachine70]

this whole thread is about 15yr olds juming to 450. Not little johnny in the 50 class jumping to 90.... that will never happen! I have seen kids who look like they are in high school on 90's..LOL

the first 2 sentences in your copy paste are pretty clear, here they are again:

Age: Riders must be at least 16 years old to compete in the Amateur classes. Age is based on the rider's age on the date of the event.

[neveready]

Youth riders who change age during the season, may advance to the next higher age class prior to their age change, only if they will become eligible for the class during the year. However, once a rider moves to the next higher age class, they may not move back to the lower age class, per AMA rules.

It's this section providing the grey area. And the real issue is how people want to interpret things for their benefit.

I do believe that everyone needs to calm down until there is further clarification from the powers that be.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by greenmachine70

the first 2 sentences in your copy paste are pretty clear, here they are again:

Age: Riders must be at least 16 years old to compete in the Amateur classes. Age is based on the rider's age on the date of the event.

BUT you have to read the next couple of sentences. If this were a stand alone paragraph then okay BUT its not.
It states RIDERS, including youth, ----- which means ALL riders....
I DON'T have a dog in this debate so I'm not choosing sides...i just can see how it can be read as a 15 gonna be 16 year old parent can read it as his rider can move up.
If it were talking about JUST YOUTH it would clearly say "youth only" but it does NOT it clearly says riders including youth. I don't think thar reading it that way makes someone "illiterate"
Again, i dont care on way or the other - just saying.
And i have emailed Dean to clarify....

[greenmachine70]

Sorry you are right "illiterate" was a strong word and uncalled for, I posted quickly and it was first word that came to mind. I know everyone can read but obviously Hetrick knows more about this than everyone involved in this thread.
The part about amateur riders must be 16 by the race date seems to clear up the grey IMHO.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by greenmachine70
Sorry you are right "illiterate" was a strong word and uncalled for, I posted quickly and it was first word that came to mind. I know everyone can read but obviously Hetrick knows more about this than everyone involved in this thread.
The part about amateur riders must be 16 by the race date seems to clear up the grey IMHO.

I'm sure Rich is correct BUT they obviously need to fix the wording.
I'm with mxdad423......why not? 15yo on Jan. 1st and turns 16 July 1st....is not allowed? Do we really think he is less mature and unable to make the right decisions on March 23rd?
In the end it comes down to WE PARENTS making the right decisions. I plan to have my 100 pound kid on a Super-mini or 250 Mod until he's 16 going on 17....
I'd like to see these 15 going on 16 that year have to APPLY for 450 status if they wanna move up. You better be smoking most of the field IF ya think you can move up... There are plenty of people I can think of that are BY FAR able to move to a 450... Covil, Rowe, Korody, Micelson, Mack, Sepesi, A.Miller....ect. AND the sooner they go the better! :blah:
So, I guess I do have a motive! Oh boy.

[greenmachine70]

There's a video on YouTube with Cody Gibson on the Walsh hybrid, weinen, brown and Covil. Cam got the holeshot, Gibson powered past a couple laps in but weinen and brown could not get him. Cam beat the pro national champion. I am proud to know Cam and his whole team. Fortunately for the current pros I don't think he turns 16 until next December. I can't wait to see when he does.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4oouy-Gx7pw

[Hetrick Racing]

I agree Cam is a great rider!!
As far as that all goes though he has a bunch to learn.Beating a pro on a local track for 4 or even 7 laps is completely different.
We need Riders like Cam
I truly hope when he turns 18 he moves into the Pro class and does very well

[camsdad]

Thanks for the kind words Rich....I think any rider at ANY level who feels he doesn't "have a bunch to learn" is the the rider who has the most to learn..this thread doesn't pertain to us because we aren't financially able to compete at the national level in 2013,everyone has their own opinions about how it should be and I guess this thread is keeping everyone entertained until we get a final ruling.as far as a14 y/o (that's how old cam was in the above video) racing against pros at a local level.well...that just happens to be where we are put if we want to race.not by choice but it is nice to know that Cam has the speed,skill,and discipline to run at that level at such a young age.i wish everyone luck in 2013 ,if the rule allow your 15 y/o to ride an amateur class please choose wisely.

[greenmachine70]

If someone dont offer Cam a full ride when he is able to get into Pro Am or Pro with the talent he has, I would be surprised. Cam is one of the nicest kids I have met and his skill and discipline is 2nd to none. If I owned an ATV company or aftermarket company he would have already been offered a letter of intent.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by greenmachine70
If someone dont offer Cam a full ride when he is able to get into Pro Am or Pro with the talent he has, I would be surprised. Cam is one of the nicest kids I have met and his skill and discipline is 2nd to none. If I owned an ATV company or aftermarket company he would have already been offered a letter of intent.

I totally agree with all the above. But I've got news for ya'all. OUR sport is pretty bad off. When a kid with the awesome talent of Joel Hetrick cannot get a full factory paid ride and the defending National Championship mechanic is reduced to working for a miniquad rider family.....WE ARE IN TROUBLE! All we youth parents can hope for is that with ALL our efforts we can get the sport headed back to the top by the time our riders are ready for the pros.

[Hetrick Racing]

Wow
opinions
we all got one

[edwardsp&b]

Im not complaining when I make this statement.....So please dont take this that way.

Im wondering what the light at the end of the tunnel is. I dont see where many pro riders are making any money. No more factory teams. There really is no future in this sport if your rider has the talent to turn pro. What is the future for this sport for riders like Joel? or Cam when he gets a little older or some of the other great youth riders?

Ive been hearing about former youth riders and families spending 50 to 80 thousand dollars on quads for the 250 class this year. And were not just talking about one or two. I know racing is expensive, but that blows my mind. Is there a turnaround coming that Im not seeing. If this were dirtbikes and you still have pros making good money I could understand spending to get out front, which means more exposure.

I have no problem with it, if you can afford to do that, more power to you. Im not super wealthy and I can afford to race, but my little race budget looks like pennies compared to other racers. I will spend whatever within our budget to race because we love it. But if I had that kind of money, we would have been on two wheels a long time ago....

Im not trying to ruffle any feathers or talk trash or jealous, Im just curious what others think about the future.

Bryan

[neveready]

The wise in me hit several years ago when I watched Weinen not come back after his years of a storming performance. Since then I have worked behind the scenes with many riders at the upper levels and supported many and helped work the deals of some of their sponsors and frankly its terrible out there for what this industry and sport has to offer up to the talent lingering in the dark right now.

The pro purse doesnt cover the expenses of one race weekend, of course there are sponsor and contingency money thats works in as well, but I really hate to look at my kids that dream of being a pro rider and telling them the truth. If youre doing anything else you teaching a false reality unless something takes a quick turn.

Name me one rider who makes a living riding an ATV..... without another sourse of income, and if you do name the couple that try theyre not supporting a family with it.

Face it guys, if you are looking at this as anything more than some of the best memories with the best friends, families, and people then youre nuts. Dumping the fortunes into winning the recognition isnt worth burning up the retirement or college education money for the already struggling american families today. We race because we love the people, the atmosphere, the challenges and discipline it teaches our kids about work and sacrifice to acheive something you want.

Sorry to keep this thread going the wrong direction and to sound negative, because I'm not. I love ATV racing, its in our blood, and sure we want to win just as bad as anyone else, but we come for more than the chunk of wood sunday afternoon. 75% of the contacts in my phone are from folks I've met racing.

So I myself ask the same question....Wheres the light, cause I hear a train coming!!

[Hetrick Racing]

I can speak for Joel in this case,but not for all.
Joel is 19 years old he made a decent amount of money last year and is making more this year.
With what he made in the last 4 years he has bought a house,new truck,dirt bikes ,cars pretty much whatever he wants.
With that said is he making millions, NO
Would he be racing even if he didnt make a dime,YES.
He loves racing!!
I can say we race because we love it the entire family.
For those that think jr is going to provide for them,,well wake up its probably not going to happen.
I have been involved in this long enough to see the factory rides come and go twice.
Once was due to people that had no business being on any type of internal combustion propelled set of wheels.As they crashed they filed law suits against HONDA ,,
The second time was due to a situation that involved another law suit that shut down the WPSA.
So will they all come back really dont know.
nor do I care,
I hope that all of us stick it out and continue to do what we love.
Think about it why do we do anything in life ?
Because we want to...

[neveready]

Well said rich. I do have to grant credit to Joel and the entire Hetrick family and team with this as they have made every sacrifice and worked and struggled through the best and worst times of the sport and the industry to do what they love.

Its the love and passion that fed it though, throughout the networks of the many years of working with people.

It's proof that perhaps it can be done, but I do know first hand it wasnt all roses. And it's not a likely story for most folks without the network involved.

I just wish that it could be what it is to the eyes of a young inspired rider. Work hard, train hard, win and be a great sport and someone will pick them up. Not likely here, in this game you'd better be ready to build and develop your own program through anyone and everyone you can. bring your passion to them and hope they will bring it back to the sport in return.

I personally am excited to see what changes this season brings and hope we can work together and maybe, just maybe one day they'll be something more!!

[Logan #34's Dad]

I apologize for turning this thread into a negative Nellie thread. But i get so torn on what to do for my son. Logan wants nothing more than to race and become a pro. But i do not believe I have the financial means to make that happen (and my wife n I do pretty good). When I'm trying to compete against families with unlimited budgets it get frustrating. Hearing him say he wished he had this or that. Then I keep thinking- do we really need too?I have a bit of a unique situation because I'm spending enough money in the summer to pay for his college- he's an A student in advanced classes (taking college courses as a freshman) He is also an outstanding wrestler (little guys can prosper). He has a bright future as a productive member of society and all he wants to do is race. ugg! I work basically 4 jobs to make all this happen and i know with talking to the older fathers that it will be worth it for a number of reasons but I find myself wondering if its the right path with the state of the sport as it is now.

[jake55]

We all had dreams as a child of being some type of pro athlete, as reality set in we grew up and settled into our adult lives. Now our kids dreams have become our mission. reality will once again set in and most of us will then move on to our grandkids dream.
Let's face it, dreams are just that, dreams, very few are lucky enough to have those dreams come true, the rest of us move on and make do with what we have.
Becoming a pro in any sport is almost impossible. Our local high school football team made the state finals this year, every one of those kids have a dream of playing in the NFL. Only a couple of the seniors have signed on with a big time collage and i will guess that we wont see any of them in the NFL. Life goes on.
i guess what i'm saying is this, the odds are against us in everything we do, keep your head up and enjoy the ride. if it pans out, great, if not, life goes on and we find something else to keep us happy.

We all want our kids to be great, truth is, most of us will never win a national race let alone a championship, maybe it's lack of funds, maybe it's lack of talent, maybe it's just bad luck, but the dream remains and we will all do what we can to make that dream come true for our kids. We are all "Dream Chasers", only a special few will catch it.
For the rest of us, life goes on.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Well said Rob! Now, where did you copy and paste that from? Cause there ain't NO way YOU came up with all that. LMAO! Just messing w/ ya. :blah:

[neveready]

Rocky, thats exactly where I'm coming from. But, this is also up to us now that the kids are getting older where we start explaining the reality to them as well as the overall position. Some are obviously more fortunate than others financially, and some WAAAYY more fortunate, and its impossible to compete with money (here come the arguments right..). They have the best equipment, mechanics, training, travel time, etc. and common joe isnt gonna compete with that no matter how much talent a young rider has. And being the best parents possible to never see the blank face of a child let down or not understand why they work their butt off but still cant compete with the field is heartbreaking!! But its reality.


And Jake55 yeah, I wanted to be a cowboy when I was a kid but my mom and dad didnt get me a 10,000 horse, two guns, and a hat to ride around town. And with the state of the sport right now it'd be a similar investment.

And if every varsity player didnt have the dream of pro, he or she need not be on the team. Winning is the reason for competition and losing promotes being humble. But his/her parents arent spending his college money and their retirement trying to make it possible. And everyone can obviously agree that the NFL pays slightly more than atv MX.


I've sadly seen alot of great people come and go in this sport, and they all quit for one reason....The money. Its crazy but Ive seen families lose things to race, all in order to compete with the guys that arent suffering.

And again, all this is simply my opinion amongst you folks I consider extended family so take none of it for any more than that, perhaps someone could move this into a new thread.

[Logan #34's Dad]

On another note: when will these rules and classes be finalized? Anyone?

[jake55]

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
Well said Rob! Now, where did you copy and paste that from? Cause there ain't NO way YOU came up with all that. LMAO! Just messing w/ ya. :blah:

ok Rocky, you got one coming!!

Dont get me wrong guys, we go to the track to win, but when we don't, i'm being honest with myself about why. i'm not looking at who spent more money, i'm looking at this kid started better, that kid jumped further or that kid drove it into the corner further and got in the gas sooner coming out of the turn. that's all i'm saying, be honest with yourself, dont blame the rules or the competiters budgets or the lack of a big payout at the end of the day.
we go to the track to win, but more importantly, we go cause my kid loves it!!!

[thequadfather+2]

FINALLY- I have been thinking the same thing Visnic, just thought I was the only one. WE just come to race. We dont care who has a bigger bus, who brought more quads, who has the advantage...We just come to race. My two boys just like racing, we get to travel, hang out with friends and race. It really is that simple.

We like sitting on the gates with 15-20 quads every race, racing against some of the fastest kids in the country and racing on some of the best tracks you can imagine. We like racing the series because it is the most difficult/challenging ATV motocross series in the country. If you want to race against kids from all over the country, this is where you do it.....Thats why we are there.

Everyone has the option of not running and choosing something else. Some kids/families ride year around. Some home school so they can race. Some poor everything into it and some are part time racers. We are part time racers but still show up ready to race...At the same time I dont hate on the families that take it to the next level. I dont worry about what anyone else is doing, mostly because I dont have time.

All you guys out there with a half empty glass should just go ahead and poor it out, it aint never gonna fill it's self up.:devil:

What I dont understand is why the - I hate this crap - This sport has no future - throwing money at something with no future - people are still here. All I can figure is that you love to complain or your just naturally a hater. If you dont like the series or sport just find something else and leave the rest of us to throw our lives away at the track.

I dont think (some) of you guys understand the sport of racing. No mattter what kind of vehicle there will always be an advantage for the best performing vehicle from Nascar to go-karts. For crying out loud-James Stewart has been using a device that monitors wheel spin on his bike in an effort to reduce it and find traction, He brings 20 different tire combos to each race....I wonder how the low budget single riders that barely qualify feel about that, I wonder if they complain about the dissadvantage. How do the low budget youth riders that make Loretta's feel about competing against Adam Cianciarulo and Team Green---You dont think he has an advantage with Kawi going all in to keep his bikes ready with the latest and greatest stuff.......Thats just how it is in any type of motorsport and our sport is no different.

[drt18]

I LIKE WHAT IM READING HERE BE POSITIVE IN WHATEVER YOU DO.DARIAN AND I ARE DONE RACING BUT WE WILL BE AT MORE NATS NEXT YEAR FOR FUN AND TO SUPPORT THE SPORT WE LOVE.

[rd2005]

As a mom I decided to way in on this conversation. Financially this sport is getting sooo expensive. Entry fees to maintenance for our quads is through the roof! I know my son will never be a pro rider & there are times when I wonder why we spend so much $ on this sport that most folks would say won't get him anywhere in life but that is not correct. My kid as most of the other kids out there racing have a love for this sport....a PASSION for it! The experiences he gets from traveling to different cities, the people he meets, trying new things, even walking away with a national trophy is a big deal to my son! Some of you already know that my son has Autism. Life for him is so different & difficult on a daily basis. But when it comes to quad racing it has opened him up to so many opportunities. It has molded him in a positive way....I'm thankful for this sport! Yeah our race budget is very small & we will get him to as many national & local events as we can. I just feel as long as our kids want to race, live to ride, & so forth this sport WILL Thrive! I guess as a simple ATV mx family we don't sweat the stuff we can't control. So I guess what I'm trying to say is this sport isn't going anywhere anytime soon with kids like ours. They are tomorrows big riders! Just my 2 cents...Thanks

[josborn]

Guys, this is Jeremy Osborn. I was actually researching mini quad info for the OMA classes when i came upon this thread. All big quad/450cc classes are def. 15+ for OMA events, because most kids at 15 are ready. Its no secret that kids have been fibbing about their birthdays at nationals as far back as I can remember. I know of at least one individual that won a fourstork B title at 15 with a bogus birth cert. But that was well over 10 years ago, and thus the staute of limitations has run out, so dont get worked up. My nephews are fairly small kids, and they have been on 300's since age 11, and the oldest Tyler had spent time at 12 on a ds 450. I see it every year, kids at 15 can handle a 450. Its no different than putting a 14 year old on a 250f dirtbike. Anyway not trying to make waves, just thought I would introduce myself and weigh in on the age debate.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Hey Jeremy, I wish you'd petitioned the atva to get your track on the schedule. One of the best facilities in Ohio.....and we've got a lot of tracks around here.

[rookiewrench]

AMEM Rocky!!

Get it done Jeremy!!

[josborn]

Thanks guys. We are working toward it. I want to get one more big truck and another big tractor before I try to go down that road. If I'm going to attempt it, I want to be sure I'm covered on equipment and we can can do a damn good job. Maybe in a couple years.

[mxdad423]

Thanks for the info on the age thing Jermey, I have heard a lot of good things over the last year about your track, Brandon and I will definatley see you this year to check it out, especially being he can run his 450, look forward to it.

Thanks