Just curious, has anyone ever gone from a 450 to a 400ex?

[RNL]

I was just wondering if anyone has ever made this switch, or gone back to a 400ex after going from an EX to a 450. I used to have a 03 400ex and sold it and got a YFZ 450.

[Stickman400]

I have both. I got my 400 way back in '04 when they first came out with reverse and i just got a 450 this summer and I can say that if your 400 is heavily modded (engine/suspension) then you would notice a slight difference in instant power/ throttle response and top end speed, but other than that you woudn't notice a difference. That's IF your 400 has an 11:1 or higher piston, 407+ bore, stage 2 cam, pipe, filter, 450R or 39mm FCR carb., aftermarket shocks, +1 or +2 arms and a +1 or +4 axle. Mine has all that and more done too it and when I ride it and then jump on the 450 the only difference I notice is top end speed and instant arm ripping power.

Now that being said I don't think I could downgrade back to having a 400 only if had to. I would only do it if you could get one heavily modified like I said earlier, otherwise it would feel like you were riding a scooter compared to a crotch rocket.

[RNL]

Originally posted by Stickman400
I have both. I got my 400 way back in '04 when they first came out with reverse and i just got a 450 this summer and I can say that if your 400 is heavily modded (engine/suspension) then you would notice a slight difference in instant power/ throttle response and top end speed, but other than that you woudn't notice a difference. That's IF your 400 has an 11:1 or higher piston, 407+ bore, stage 2 cam, pipe, filter, 450R or 39mm FCR carb., aftermarket shocks, +1 or +2 arms and a +1 or +4 axle. Mine has all that and more done too it and when I ride it and then jump on the 450 the only difference I notice is top end speed and instant arm ripping power.

Now that being said I don't think I could downgrade back to having a 400 only if had to. I would only do it if you could get one heavily modified like I said earlier, otherwise it would feel like you were riding a scooter compared to a crotch rocket.

Yeah I for sure know what you mean. I'm just thinking I might have made a mistake for the type of riding I do.

[ish416]

Having both, there are times when I prefer to ride the 450 and times when the 400 is best.

I have just as much fun on either.

[CJM]

Have both. Prefer the way my 400 is setup but its a monster (or so says my buddies who ride 450's). Mine has arm ripping power.

I like the 450 b/c it has more overall power even stock, but lacks the torque punch my 11:1 426 has. Once I work it a bit (its all stock) you wont be able to compare them.

[RNL]

Originally posted by CJM
Have both. Prefer the way my 400 is setup but its a monster (or so says my buddies who ride 450's). Mine has arm ripping power.

I like the 450 b/c it has more overall power even stock, but lacks the torque punch my 11:1 426 has. Once I work it a bit (its all stock) you wont be able to compare them.

I am missing the torque. Been riding alot of tight and twisty trails lately, and it always seems I'm between gears. I don't know, maybe an exhaust will make my 450 run a bit better in the tight stuff.

[DragonGunner]

Originally posted by RNL
I am missing the torque. Been riding alot of tight and twisty trails lately, and it always seems I'm between gears. I don't know, maybe an exhaust will make my 450 run a bit better in the tight stuff.




My brother in law bought a brand new 450R in 2004, he had the same problem in woods, too tall gearing. I told him to go smaller on the front sprocket....he did an really liked it alot better. Even then the gearing an transmission gearing is different. I would be in like 4th gear on the built EX an he would still be in 2nd.....after that he just pulled away like I was setting still, it was stock with a HRC. I told him to put a full CT Racing pipe on it.....loves it.

[CJM]

I find the gearing for the woods on the 04-05 is better than the 06+. I have a 14/38 setup on mine and its ok.

I actually really liked riding my buddies he sold (shame i shoulda bought it!!!! ARGH!!) was an 05 with just a hotca, exhaust, 11:1 piston and it was really torquey.

Compression gives ya that nice torque output, hop on a stock 400 and then hop on a worked 400w ith hi comp setup and its a world of difference.

[RNL]

I think the dropping one tooth mod is in the future for my 450.

[ish416]

I think the dropping one tooth mod is in the future for my 450.

I wish I could do that on my 450. I went up one on the front and it's still a bit too much.

[Stickman400]

I can't remember what I have on mine, I'll have to look, but it's pretty tall. I like having top end because I do alot of fire road and gravel traveling or high speed trails/dunes. So you need top end more than bottom. It dogs down if I try to putt it through the woods in first, you have to play with the clutch alot, but once you can get to cruising speed it's an animal. But if I wanted a good trail quad I'll just hop on my 400, the 450 is setup for the track and dunes anyway.

[Thumpin440ex]

Had one while I was building my 400. One the 400 was done, the 50 went up the road. I just like the powerband of the 400, not to mention I can beat on most modded 450's now.. Just completely different animals, the 400 is less maint..


John

[Blodg]

Originally posted by CJM
Have both. Prefer the way my 400 is setup but its a monster (or so says my buddies who ride 450's). Mine has arm ripping power.

I like the 450 b/c it has more overall power even stock, but lacks the torque punch my 11:1 426 has. Once I work it a bit (its all stock) you wont be able to compare them.
This is off the original topic but does that arm ripping 426 have any issues with heat? Do you have the HD head studs or any additional cooling? Does it need it?

RNL, I had strongly considered going to a 450 and was out looking at them until I realized (with some help from this forum) that my 400EX was better for my needs and riding style. The 400EX is just fun to ride and on trail rides I am pushing the pace with buddies on 450R's and even a couple on dirtbikes.

[400man]

about a year or so ago I bought a 05 450r cause I was thinking about setting it up for woods racing, but I kinda changed my mind on it (money reasons mostly). to me my 400ex felt alot more comfortable and easier to ride in the woods, but the 450 had much more power and was alot more snappy. but the suspension was also stock on the 450 so it didnt ride as good as my 400. id say if I could go back I probably should have kept the 450 and just took my time fixing it up better to my liking. I think I made a topic back then comparing to the two bikes if u look it up. heres a few pics from back then,

http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/ky2stroker/400ex450r012.jpg

http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/ky2stroker/400ex450r013.jpg

[dxcody]

I like the 450's because you have more room to move around.

I feel crammed on my 400 sometimes..

And the floppy fenders..

The other day when I was riding we have a log laying across one of the trails that kicks your left end up so I was leaning to the left and the back fender flopped up and hit me right in the sack!

ouch!

[Stickman400]

Originally posted by dxcody
I like the 450's because you have more room to move around.

I feel crammed on my 400 sometimes..

And the floppy fenders..

The other day when I was riding we have a log laying across one of the trails that kicks your left end up so I was leaning to the left and the back fender flopped up and hit me right in the sack!

ouch! lol, what??? How does that even happen? I don't even see how it's physically possible.

[400man]

Originally posted by Stickman400
lol, what??? How does that even happen? I don't even see how it's physically possible.

maybe he was doing a superman trick and was stretched out when he hit the log? :rolleyes: :huh

[CJM]

Originally posted by Blodg
This is off the original topic but does that arm ripping 426 have any issues with heat? Do you have the HD head studs or any additional cooling? Does it need it?


I did the heavy duty head studs just incase. Had GT Thunder install them to while they had my cyl for boring. Well worth the 100 bucks.

I also have a 3 (or maybe its 4") spal brand puller fan mounted on the oil cooler. I only use it in the summer on very hot days if Im doing very technical slow trail riding. Even then I dont think it really matters.

Also have a CFM oversized oil tank. But IDK if it helped, I ran without it before with no issues

But honestly never had an issue even in very hot temps with even the stock setup. Proper jetting is key. I err 1 jet on the rich side almost always just so I dont have to change it for temps usually and any heat problems just incase. 1 jet doesnt really make it too rich either.

[RNL]

I think I'm going back to a 400ex. After thinking it through, it' makes more sense. For the amount of time I get to ride, and type of riding I do it seems more logical. Less maintenance and cost there as well. If I was doing more wide open riding I'd keep the 450, but I just don't and dont use all the power of the 450. I would like to do a small build when I get one, was thinking Sparks exhaust with key, and maybe one of their cams. I would think that would satisfy me.

[Blodg]

RNL, I think that is a good decision if it suits you better! I am doing something similiar where I decided to mod the 400EX some instead of buying a 450R. My 400EX already has a pipe and filter and I just bought a 450R carb off ebay and it should arrive tomorrow. This winter I will be doing an 11:1 piston and stage 2 hotcam. The only thing I am not sure about is whether I should bore it to 416 or 426. Anyways, the mods should add 5 or more HP and even though it won't beat a 450 in a drag race it will be perfect for my needs and less costly as well.

If you want cheap mods I have read a ton of old threads where the consensus is that the 450R carb is one of the biggest "bang for the buck" improvements you can do. I will let you know how it goes when I get mine installed (still need ZR adapter and fuel hose before I will be ready to install).

[MtnEX]

I have a 400 and a 450.

Both have their ups and downs and I am finding putting the best of both together is nearing impossible.


I love both of them for different reasons.

On the 400 I love the tractor grunt it has. It is hard to stall, has smooth delivery and has geometry that just makes it confidence inspiring. I can take it through very challenging places without even thinking about it that spook me on other quads.

It can be rather boring though and does not have near the acceleration or top end.


On the 450 I love the power and acceleration and availability of aftermarket stuff from a lot of places. It is way fun to raise cain on and there are goodies like the Rekluse clutch and almost every company makes something to fit it.

The down side is that you have to have a Rekluse or stall a lot. And while the acceleration and top end make it a lot more fun, it is also exhausting and trying to lower gearing just makes it worse.

I trail ride and race XC. So for me these fundamental differences are a big deal. I find the 450 more fun until the going gets tougher, more technical and tighter on trail rides, and I find the 450 much faster initially. But it is not long before the 450 is pushing me instead of me pushing it. So another aspect of it is fitness and endurance.



I think in the end, the primary differences are only raw power and flywheel size. The 450 has more power and the 400 has more flywheel weight, inertia, etc. I feel like they just went a bit far on making internal engine parts light on the 450's. So there is no in-between. I wish there was though because a 450 with a huge flywheel would be the hot ticket in my opinion for XC racing and riding. The power would still be there, but the delivery would be less of a hand full and the manners would be better.

I cannot believe the heavy flywheel market is not booming for the quads like it is for bikes. Instead though, it don't really exist.

[CJM]

I kinda agree to a point MtnEX. Ive ridden alot of 450's from stock to worked. In stock form they kinda suck b/c the motor tends to rev too quickly and come down too quickly due to a light flywheel-specially the 06+.

However the 04-05 while not the best in terms of overall performance has a different gear range in the trans and is a different engine completely that doesnt mind as much grunting along as the 06+ does. Yea it does need more feathering of the clutch but it can be done.

Thats personally one of the reasons I wanted the older 450. The 06+ is too much like a CRF motor and revs out way to quick like I mentioned earlier. the 04-05 is kinda a 400ex on steroids imho.

Also as I said earlier in the thread: With the right mods the 400e will fly and has the torque to kill mildly built 450s. they have the edge in speed, but you can only go so fast on trails vs wide open. Also rider skill is a huge advantage. You know how to ride it better than the 450 guy they aint gonna get ya.

This was clearly evidenced by my buddies on all 450s vs me on the ex a few weeks ago. Fast trails and about all they could was beat me in speed. Course I was in 4th and they still had 2 more gears cause they were mostly in 3rd. Still, even my one buddy was like wtf did you slap a R motor in there since we went out last time lol..

[Blodg]

MtnEX, thanks for the comparison between the two for those of us who don't own both.

[Pittsburgh400ex]

I've owned both for a while now and i'd really say i actually prefer my 400. The exception would be if i know i'm going to be fast firetrail riding with friends and i'd wanna smoke them, in that case i'd take the 450.

In woods, in the tight stuff especially, the 450 is just a pain in the ***. Your constantly clutching on mine. I put a Hinson all steel basket in mine and it really helped alot, feels more torquey and much easier to control at low speed. Still i know if i made timed runs on both on same trails, my 400 would eat my other one.

CJM...lol man where do you live? We need to hook up somehow and ride our 426's. They way you describe yours is the EXACT same way i'd describe mine. I really dont notice a difference between mine ntill i hit 4th on the 426. It's not that the power drops off, it's that the 450 just keeps pulling, and pulling, and pulling, and pulling lol.

Sounds like you and I have damn near the same build man, no one else around me with a 426 or a 440 can hold up to mine. Do you notice the 4th gear and up difference between your two machines also or is it somewhere else?

[CJM]

Pittsburgh:

yea after you hit 4th it just seems to lack the power the 450 makes. Its kinda like you hit a wall b/c you got all the torque you want but not enough horsepower to keep it going. If the 450 is modded a good bit with a high comp piston or big bore kit you cant really win. If its just bolt ons then you stand a good chance if you shift right. But they can still outrun you.

If I drag race vs a stock 450 I wont beat them as they can outrun me once I hit 4th. If they are a bad rider I can best them however.

Tighter sections I like the EX for b/c you can lug it. Drop it into 2nd around a turn, pin it and upshift to 3rd. 450 works ok for this but not great.

Where the 450 really shines is straight aways or drag racing where the extra power comes in handy. Also imho it speeds up much better b/c you can wind out the gears more due to the rev limit. IE a jump I could do in 2nd on the EX and Im pretty much topping 2nd off can easily be done in 2nd on the 450.

My 450 Im building into a torque monster. Dont care about high horsepower really, want the torque for the woods. Currently Im setup with 14/38 gearing vs the 13/38 it came with when i got it used. I liked the short gearing for the woods but the open areas it kinda stunk.

The EX is fast no doubt but it has its shortcomings. Like you said: It the EX runs outta steam but the 450 keeps on pulling.

[Pittsburgh400ex]

How far along are you on your 450 build? I just got a nice bonus for 4700$ so i'm just starting to restore/build my 450 as well. (mentioned it in a post in the 450 section)

I'm still in the "brainstorming" ode for this thing lol. Not sure what i'm doing yet besides it's getting CP/Carillo and a new Dasa. I have a great builder/racer 5 miles from me so i'll probably go along with what he thinks we should do but definately wanna hear how your's goes and any ideas you have.

t doesn't need any work at all actually but I'm not happy with anything untill it either scares me, or kills me lol. It's real solid but it's a ******* motor. Not sure what the comp. on it really is since the head has been decked and it's got 2 gaskets on it so i can run 93. Got a hotrods bottom in it but i dont have much faith in those, Things like that i tend to stick to OEM. I know we are planning on a brand new head that's he's gonna hog out and polish, the rest undecided. With the budget that landed on me for this thing i think i can damn near make it anyway i want, just hope we get it right the first time...took 3 times on my old EX before i was satisfied.

[CJM]

12:1 CP piston
Stage 2 hotcam
Ported head
Might go dasa but I kinda like my CT exhaust
Various other things, mostly suspension.