How reliable is the oil cooler from FST?

[bighig]

Looking to get the cooler for the head. Does it work? Is it worth the money? Anything bad about it?

[4TraxRider]

Never heard anything bad about them.

[holeshot19]

works like a charm.:mad: :scary:

[R-Crazy]

i love mine, easy install, and works well.

dave

[anywhereEx]

Well I have one for my 400. It is not hard to install at all but unfortunitly I am wating for my last part before I start my engine. I like the idea alot and tried to research it but you will not get very far with that. Look at the one on ebay. The cooler is alot stronger and it is cheaper:D

[JD400exrider]

What is it under on ebay. Did not see it under atv parts and assc 400 ex.
Also you guys running this oil cooler do you have a steering stablizer. I am wondering if it will work. Looks like the stablizer will be in the way.

[anywhereEx]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2406813564&category=34286


You will not be able to use the Denton type stabilizers. I am going to try to use a PEP. The new ones are rebuildable.

[JD400exrider]

Thanks anywhereex for the ebay address.
I have a rebuildable mussle stablizer, but it mounts on the same part of the frame as the cooler.

[BigThumper33]

Is there any other way of mounting that cooler? My rezzies and stabilizer will be getting in the way!

[holeshot19]

my boy runs one of those denton dampners with his fst oil cooler u just have to mount the front alum metal upper higher or u can turn it upside down i ran a pep with mine before i got my gpr personaly the pep mounts up funkey and the denton seems the way to go

[Jekyl_22]

How do you know if it works good? Do you have a temperature gauge? Can you actually notice any long-term power gain? How easy to install is it?

[anywhereEx]

Holeshot19- do you have a pic of how you have eveything mounted? I am fighting that now. I have 2 rezzy's on the right downtube the oil tank is mounted on and 1 on the left so that gives me a little room. I would prefer the denton but have not really gotten that far yet because I am still wating on a few big orders so that I can start to get the rest of my quad together.



The kit is not that hard to install. Just be carefull with the brass fittings and make sure when you are tapping the holes do not just run the tap all the way in and then pull it out. tap it a little over halfway the lenght of the threads on the tap and check it and go little by little or you will run into a situation where you made the hole slightly to big. I mean jb weld will hold it fine but I would prefer to be able to take it out later if ever needed.

If you look at the perticular tap that is required it gets slightly bigger as you work up the threads.

[TRX300X]

I have one on my X and I'm debating wether or not to leave it on there or take it off. The benefits are increased oil capacity, looks cool, and cooler oil. The negatives are that the cool oil gets almost too cool. Oil provides much better lubricity when it's heated up to around 200 degrees if I remember correctly. And the line that the FST coolers tap into isn't that high of a pressure line. It's really only a drip line so to speak that goes to the cam and the rocker arms. On my last engine I runied my cam and rocker arms (wore through the hardening on both). I don't know if this is a result of the oil cooler or what, so I'm not going to point fingers, all I know is that the rocker arms are a weak link on the X/EX engines.

Now as for buying the oil coolers from FST yes you could if you wanted to but if you want to save some money go to your local carquest, autovalue, napa store. Not Auto Zone those guys will just stand there and tell you what you want isnt in the computer. Anyway get the smallest transission cooler that they have. All the FST oil cooler is is a small tranny cooler. You'll save about $50 and you wont have to wait for it to be shipped to your house.

[BLURR250X]

How much is the FST cooler and how much is one at a Napa store?

[oregonrider89]

The FST cooler is $115. It comes with everything you need. Its not hard to install, but the directions are no help. I noticed a difference in temp. with my legs just riding. I haven't put a temp. gauge to it, I know my engine runs cooler, and thats what I was after. Its a good investment.

oregonrider89

[dariusld]

The one on Ebay says buy it now for $89. Just go to Ebay and type "400ex oil cooler".

[ChadEXer]

I bought one for my 505 and TC made me get rid of it! He said you only need one if you have a big bore\stroke and run XC or desert races! I was a little afraid to install it on my bike anyway,,I havent heard anyting bad about them, but they just look so cheap to me!!!

[oregonrider89]

The oil cooler is not cheep, the set-up is pretty sturdy. Did TC tell you why you shouldn't use it? I can't think of a reason that it would be bad for a big bore. Works well on my stroker.

oregonrider89

[mascman]

I build and sell a kit for Warriors on Ebay. I can't imagine a reason not to install one. Any reduction in temp is good in my opinion. I don't think it would reduce the temp too much except maybe in the winter time. The cooler still gets warm to the touch...which is just a way to verify that the oil is going through it.

I'll be installing one on my brother's 400ex and developing a kit for it, too.

[TRX300X]

The one at your auto parts store will run you somewhere in the neighborhood of $30. That's a lot better then FST's $115 and you're getting the same product.

[Dunlap]

trx300x Do not talk about my products ! You do not know as much as you think you do.The auto parts cooler does not flow or cool the way mine does,if it did I would use them and lower my prices.YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! In the past you have also talked about my 330/390 kits and again gave out false information.Please do not talk about my products as if you know it all,you have bin wrong on everything you said on this forum and others.I have let it go in the past but no more!

[dhines]

Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
trx300x Do not talk about my products ! You do not know as much as you think you do.The auto parts cooler does not flow or cool the way mine does,if it did I would use them and lower my prices.YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! In the past you have also talked about my 330/390 kits and again gave out false information.Please do not talk about my products as if you know it all,you have bin wrong on everything you said on this forum and others.I have let it go in the past but no more!

Hmm. I think someone was up past his bed time and got a little fussy!

[Dunlap]

Its not about money,its about people giving out bad information about my products.If I needed more money I would answer my phones more.

[dariusld]

I'd be a little fussy too if someone was taking money out of my pockets. Everyone has a right to an opinion though.
Hmm. I think someone was up past his bed time and got a little fussy!

[Diedrich]

i got one and its well worth the money

[honda250xrider]

Mickey Dunlap


do you recommend running oil coolers, how much would it help to run one, and would the oil cooler make the oil temp so cool that it would eat away the rocker arms? thanks alot

[TRX300X]

Ok, lets get a few things straight here. First off with the oil cooler. As a matter of fact I'm currently running your oil cooler that I bought with one of your big bore kits a few years ago. I will agree it is a quality product but when comparing it to an automotive transmission cooler they look VERY similar. The only difference I've found so far from my observations is your cooler has some sort of a plastic guard on the sides of the fins and it's just a tad bit smaller then the automotive coolers.

Next item of buisness. I don't recall ever bashing your 390 kit. I've just always reccomended not going over 350cc's on an X/EX engine because I've been told from people who ran kits bigger then 350cc's that the trannys don't hold up too well and you even said yourself that the oil pumps don't hold up on the 390 kit. As for your 330 kits I'm still skeptical. I'd call you but it seems that you only answer your phone between what 3 and 6 or something like that. It's kind of hard to get ahold of you considering I work 6 days a week most weeks and dont come home till 7at night. I've had issues in the past with your sleves and I have talked to you about it. You just told me that it was hard to believe that your sleves would go out of round since they are a half inch thick. It's also hard to get replacement pistons for your kits considering Wiseco will only sell them to you and not directly to me. So customer service at Wiseco says. The main problem I've had with your sleves though is clearance issues with the outside of the sleve and the engine cases. It seems that on my past two FST engines the sleve expanded into the cases which wasnt a problem untill the piston expands into the sleve and cracks the piston.

I talked to the people at powroll and told them I was running your kits. They guessed that I was cracking pistons and having issues with my sleve. They guessed right. So I switched to powroll kits.

Nowhere did I ever say that I knew it all. I've just been sharing my observations and experiences with other people. This is an open forum and so are some of the other forums that I post on. People post their experiences and thoughts on products as well as try and help eachother out. I'm sorry that I don't write for a magazine as biased as dirtwheels that praises every product that comes their way from a sponsor. But like I said I'm just posting my thoughts and observations on products. I apoligize if I offended you in any way but I'm just being as honest as I can be with others.

[Dunlap]

TRX300EX,

Thank you for replying in a respectful manner; I think you have handled yourself well. I guess the real problem is that I should have addressed the issues when I read about them. First of all, with our 390 kit there were a few isolated problems with oil pumps. I have also seen it happen on 352cc kits when I was having Powroll stroke my cranks. I believe for the most part that the oil pump should be lock-tighted on this particular motor and make sure that you use the newer style oil pump - that has taken care of the problem in all the engines I have built. As far as my sleeves go, this is one of my biggest sellers (330 kit) and we don't have problems with our sleeves - the problem is exactly as you said - the sleeve was touching the cases, which I clearly put in my directions to check to make sure that the left-hand case is not shifted forward. If it is, you need to relieve it by .010 to .020 approximately. What happens is everything expands, sleeve and cases, and it tightens up the clearances on the piston, creates a hot spot in both the sleeve and the piston, resulting in failure. If the directions are followed carefully, there are absolutely zero problems. Now, as far as oil coolers, looks can be deceiving. The difference is in the core of mine the oil is forced to the outside of the cooler to dissipate the heat faster without losing flow. Also, with the after-market coolers being quite a bit longer especially on the 300EX's has caused long-term damage to the cam and rocker arms because of lack of oil. Again, thank you for not flaming - you do have a right to your opinion but the other side needs to be heard also and that's my fault for not speaking up.

[Dunlap]

Honda250Xrider,

Yes, I do recommend oil coolers for 90% of the people on these forums. TC does not recommend them because he is more moto-cross and TT oriented and it is not necessary for an engine that only runs 15-20 minutes at the most. Most of my market is the trail rider and cross-country rider that has high performance parts and wants the overall longevity to be increased and the only way to do that is to run a consistent oil temperature under extreme conditions. I recommend oil coolers for any air cooled 4-stroke running 1/2 hour or longer at a time. Most people run a 10/40 oil which breaks down at about 250 degrees on the average. Most air cooled performance 4-wheelers can run up to 280 to 300 degrees. The average oil cooler cools the oil 40 degrees and on all my kits I direct that cool oil into the hottest place of the motor and the highest wear area for that particular model. Case in point, 300EX's, 400EX's and other Honda models have a problem with rocker arms so I direct the cold oil directly into the end of the cam feeding the rocker arms. The hard chroming that Honda puts on their rocker arms cools faster than the cast rocker arms causing them to crack and then flake and ultimately destroying a cam. This will also happen if not enough oil gets to the cam. Thus, my point in my previous post. This also will explain that there is no problem running too cold of oil as far as failure in the cam and rocker arm area.

[ChadEXer]

Mickey is right. TC didnt recommend it to me because I mostly run drag and right now my motor doesnt run for long periods of time. But if Im not mistaken, they dont run an oil cooler on Greg Trew's XC bike either, I havent ever heard of any motor problems with him and I know he is alway at the front,,,,with all the bigger motors!!!

["BLAHH"300!!]

...i thought we were about to get into another war....
instead you both answerd alot of my questions.
i have more questions....ya'll go at it some more..
i always wondered why your was 115. (i thought it was $99)

i need pics of how it's mounted on the frame,
what you used to mount it with, and what ya'll suggest i use for a screen to protect it.
i ride in woods, it gets pretty thick out there. what are the odds of having a stick ram into my cooler, busting a line, and having all my oil pump out?
if it happens with the cheeper cooler i'll just replace it, but i still need to ride back to the truck.

MICKEY.
i know my best bet would be to use your cooler, but i'm a cheep pastard and looked at a few tranny cooler's earlier today.
$29.00.... i think it's a little to big to mount behind the bumper though. (6"x12"x1.1/2") if you don't mind my asking, what are the dementions of the cooler you sale?
no offence, i don't think you'd buy cooler's at auto zone and pakage em' up...with a higher price...
i like the looks of yours, i was thinking it mounted directly in front of the engine, but i forgot about the headpipe....almost bout something that looked like a radiator for a car...12x12 or so
your's looks like it's about 6"x6"x1" or 1.1/2"

i made another thread...check it out for me.

[Dunlap]

Yes, our oil cooler is 6" X 6" approximately. You will not find one at an auto parts store but the key point that everybody keeps missing is the core of our oil cooler that dissipates the heat quicker. Using one twice as long is only going to starve the top-end for oil. It is true that Greg True does not run an oil cooler and no one says you have to but if you want more longevity out of your motor and to double the lifetime of your oil, then you can run one. Greg True runs a very mild motor and rides the wheels off of it. William Yokley ran a stock motor this weekend and beat Chad Duvall. Motors in cross-country racing don't make the difference - handling and being in shape are the two main factors in GNCC racing.

[ChadEXer]

It doesnt matter how good of shape your in if your motor doesnt carry you all the way across the finish line!! If motors dont really matter than why do you build Duvalls motor to 500cc. That definately doesnt make it anymore reliable than stock,,,and if Trew can beat him with a 425 and even Yokely with a stocker, seems to me his best bet would be to run a more reliable motor and just train and practice more??

[F-16Guy]

Mickey,
Is it possible to get one of your coolers with AN style fittings? I work on aircraft, and have access to aluminum tubing and AN fittings. Aside from being extremely trick, I think this setup would prove less prone to leakage and could be routed closer to the bike to prevent snags from bushes, etc. Thanks for the help.

["BLAHH"300!!]

...you said a longer cooler would starve the head, how/why..i don't understand.

i'm guessing it has o do with the oil pressure (?).
i'd think it would have just as much as it did stock, only having a little further to go. please explain.
..i went by a used auto parts store today to look at the differant size cooler's. i picked one up for $5.00
(( i'm not going to use it, i just wanted to get an idea of how, i could mount one))

out of about 8 i narrowed it down to 3.
3"x5"x1",--3"x10"x1"--5"x12"x1.

i bought the 3x11.
it fits almost perfect in my frame.
i mounted it vertical between the vertical frame rails in front of the stering stem. only problem is, the line in/out's are on the sides (kinda like this [ ) so it wont flush between the rails.
it fits snugg with the top line in front of the rail, and the bottom line behind the rail. Has bolt hole's on each end. the vents seam pretty strong, thick, looks like the oil goes inside the vents, instead of inside a tube that snake through the vents.
...just thought of this....
half of 10 is 5. and this cooler 3"x10" has pretty much the same surface area as your 6"x6" cooler....so it's not any bigger. acctually it's smaller..if i mounted this, it wouldn't stave the head for oil would it?....i understand your's was designed differant internaly, but he!! if your's drops the temp 40 degrees', then this should drop it atleast 20 or 30 degree's right?...
if no, then oh well......i tried,..but if yes, let me know and i'm going to buy a new one like this and install it.

the 3"x5" was my next choise.
easy to mount, i could mount that on my handy bars haha.
but it doesn't have much surface area.
the line made one "U" throught the vents. i figured that to be more trouble than it was worth.

and if the larger 12x5 would starve the head,.....thats the last thing i need.

[Dunlap]

ChadEXer,

The FST/Maxxis/Douglas Wheel Race Team races to test FST and the rest of the sponsors products for durability and reliability. In Chad's case, I built the 500 to withstand a pro rider's abuse for many hours. It's up to Chad to win races - it's up to me to make sure the bike gets him across the line. If Chad was in shape, with the 500 motor he has, he would be up there giving Billy a run for his money every race. Chad is a very talented and experienced rider. However, he is a married man with a job and bills to pay and doesn't have as much time to train as he would like.

F-16Guy,

We have never had problems with our oil cooler on any of our machines getting broken or the lines getting snagged and tearing them loose. If you did have a problem in the woods with the rubber lines, you would be able to unhook it from the oil cooler and double it back to the other oil line and bypass the oil cooler and still make it home. If you had aluminum lines and fittings, you wouldn't be able to do this in the woods and you would be stranded. Basically, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have been selling these for 15 years and if we would have had any trouble, we would have come up with something different. Also, this has made it as inexpensive as possible and as reliable as possible.

[Dunlap]

"BLAHH"300,

I don't know what to tell you. Without testing, short term and long term, who knows what your cooler will do. How much time and effort and money is it really saving you? My cooler is $95 for the 300EX and $110 for the 400EX (because of the extra screen for the mounting). Basically, I believe you will get what you pay for no matter which way you go.

[ChadEXer]

Mickey, thats a good point!!! Good luck to you all at the races.

[TRX300X]

Mickey Dunlap

The only problem is I was using your 80mm piston kit on my X engine and in the instructions it only said to check for clearance on the 300EX. Since I don't have a 300EX I never checked for clearance. This would be why I was having problems. You might want to include the X engine also in your insturctions with you kit.