my new glasspacks

[russellsroost31]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWGOaHFR78o&feature=share

[KKiowaTJ]

Sounds decent hearing it on a vid. Do you still have the cat on it? Sounds like it does.

I have a couple questions about it though, Why not a 700r4? The 4l60e is for v-6 motors or very small v8's.
Thus the reason for the 4l means 4litre 6 cylinders 0 overdrive E= electronic shifting. Thats the trannys they put in s-10's with the 4.3l vortec.

That and why a 10 bolt rear, A z71 is a heavy half and should come with a 12 bolt. Just curious why the smaller parts on a bigger truck that also has more weight added, Lift and tires etc.

Nice, clean looking truck though. Most have rust and dents but yours looks great for the year. Not knocking it at all, Just curious why that route.

[chucked]

A 700r4 is a 4L60E without the electronics. or I can say this 700r4 = 4L60. Why this truck has it though? I thought only v6's had the 4l60e.

[fastredrider44]

Almost all of these trucks this body style got the 4L60E after they discontinued the 700R4. A few of them came with 4L65 but theyre few and far between. One thing most people don't realize is that a 4L60E from say a 4.3 blazer or s-10 is not the same 4L60E found in these trucks. As far as the rear end, most of these trucks do have the 10 bolt, which is a week rear end for anything bigger than stock tires. A lot of them did come with a 12 bolt as well though, and even some came with a 6 lug 14 bolt. I had never heard of one til I bought my Z71 and the rpo codes showed it was bought that way new so it had never been replaced.

[slainwarrior]

I have a 95 c1500 2wd rcsb 5.7l v8 and it came with a 4l60e it's built to handle 500 rwhp but still even with all the work done to it I still don't think its the most reliable trans. They can be built to handle even more but the price goes up dramatically. If you wanna run an electronic trans the 4l80e is the way to go. If I were to do it again id go with a th-350 or 400. It sucks having the electronic transmission because if you plan on doing alot of mods to your motor you can't just stick a carb on it you need to swap to another transmission or buy a seperate computer to run the transmission or learn how to tune OBD I TBI which is a huge pain in the ***** to learn how to do since theres hardly no shops that can do it for you.

[KKiowaTJ]

Originally posted by chucked
A 700r4 is a 4L60E without the electronics. or I can say this 700r4 = 4L60. Why this truck has it though? I thought only v6's had the 4l60e.



I got ya. Replaced the TV cable shift adjusment to electronic/ECM/TCM shift points already installed.

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by KKiowaTJ
I got ya. Replaced the TV cable shift adjusment to electronic/ECM/TCM shift points already installed.

Lol. TV cable is about right. I think the 4L60 is a little stronger and definately lasts a lot longer than the 700r4 too though. Or it might be because I've grown out of the burn rubber around every corner and stoplight phase. :blah:

[Thumpin440ex]

Originally posted by KKiowaTJ
Sounds decent hearing it on a vid. Do you still have the cat on it? Sounds like it does.

I have a couple questions about it though, Why not a 700r4? The 4l60e is for v-6 motors or very small v8's.
Thus the reason for the 4l means 4litre 6 cylinders 0 overdrive E= electronic shifting. Thats the trannys they put in s-10's with the 4.3l vortec.

That and why a 10 bolt rear, A z71 is a heavy half and should come with a 12 bolt. Just curious why the smaller parts on a bigger truck that also has more weight added, Lift and tires etc.

Nice, clean looking truck though. Most have rust and dents but yours looks great for the year. Not knocking it at all, Just curious why that route.

4l60e's came in every late model truck after a certain date that were a 1500 series truck. The earlier ones had the 700r in them. 2500 up trucks has the 80e


John

[KKiowaTJ]

All that electronic crap fails in water and thats where most of mine go is off road. I have seen too many get replaced and all i did was have to check for water. That and i think they are too erratic and bounce in and out of lock-up. Maybe its just me not used to the newer style.

Guess ill have to keep throwing money in my I6 motors and mopar. I took the cat off my cherokee because it broke and was rattling, Gained a decent % increase in HP and 2+ mpg. Put the 02 sensor back in and no check engine light.

I like the newer ones, But not at the cost of having to run all the smog and EPA crap that robs power and mpg, Then if it goes bad it high dollar for a worthless item. Im glad we have no required smog test in iowa.

[russellsroost31]

i wanted a 700r4 or turbo 400 but my mechanic wouldnt do it and since the 700r4 isnt electronic i woulda hac to do alot of converting

[russellsroost31]

and yes it has the cats

[KKiowaTJ]

All they do is cork the motor. The 5.7L motor is not made to run with all that BS. Same with the 5.2L mopar.

The kill sound, Horse power and mpg. I have always gained from gutting or cutting it off. Just weld a 18mm bung back in at the same spot in a pipe and no check engine light. Good luck either way

[fastredrider44]

If you have O2 sensors behind the cat, you have to either do computer work or install dummy sensors or it will throw the light. If the sensor is in front on the cat, it's fine to cut them out. As for the 5.7 not running good with all that crap, my 97 runs pretty good in stock form. That's not to say I'm a fan, just stating that it's fine on my truck. It still sounds good and I get 15-17 mpg in the summer city and hwy. I've had older trucks that wouldn't even come close to that.

[KKiowaTJ]

Originally posted by fastredrider44
If you have O2 sensors behind the cat, you have to either do computer work or install dummy sensors or it will throw the light. If the sensor is in front on the cat, it's fine to cut them out. As for the 5.7 not running good with all that crap, my 97 runs pretty good in stock form. That's not to say I'm a fan, just stating that it's fine on my truck. It still sounds good and I get 15-17 mpg in the summer city and hwy. I've had older trucks that wouldn't even come close to that.




96+ OBD II thats has the after cat 02 sensor, All you have to do is cut out the cat, Get a piece of usually 2 1/2 pipe and mark where the sensor was, Drill a hole and weld a 02 bung or 18mm nut, Put pipe in and hook up sensor and no light.

I have this done to almost all my vehicles and never a light. They have been tuned to run with that chit hooked up, Get rid of it and gain all the HP and TQ back plus mpg. All the downstream sensor does is monitor heat, Plays no role other than a light.

02 simulators may be needed on some cars and trucks, But of all the exhausts i have done, I have never had the need outside of just re-installing it in the same place with no light or return customers.

[russellsroost31]

when i do longtube headers ill get rid of the cats
but im not sure if ill pass e check with out them

[KKiowaTJ]

I have put my personal vehicles on the sniffer before. If you truck is running 100%, New cap/rotor front up stream 02 sensor, It will pass just as easy as if it was there.

We dont have to have ours inspected in iowa, But i have done it for fun a few times. The only one that didnt pass, Was a jeep that had a bad crank position sensor. When they go out they will somtimes cause a miss fire and the fuel injection will run rich and in turn too much raw fuel in the exhaust.

[russellsroost31]

ok
i guess ill et rid of them then when ido headers

[KKiowaTJ]

Originally posted by russellsroost31
ok
i guess ill et rid of them then when ido headers



Make sure you keep them just in case. I can only tell you what i have done and the good results i have had. It might not pass, so you throw them back on for the test and take them off. Or if you have no problems you can sell them for $100+ depending on area and market.

If it were me, Do the inspection and then do true duals with headers so at least you have a year to have fun and blast the cars next to ya. Good luck

[CJM]

Just gut them, then they are there but do zilch other than visual inspection

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by KKiowaTJ
96+ OBD II thats has the after cat 02 sensor, All you have to do is cut out the cat, Get a piece of usually 2 1/2 pipe and mark where the sensor was, Drill a hole and weld a 02 bung or 18mm nut, Put pipe in and hook up sensor and no light.

I have this done to almost all my vehicles and never a light. They have been tuned to run with that chit hooked up, Get rid of it and gain all the HP and TQ back plus mpg. All the downstream sensor does is monitor heat, Plays no role other than a light.

02 simulators may be needed on some cars and trucks, But of all the exhausts i have done, I have never had the need outside of just re-installing it in the same place with no light or return customers.


The downstream O2 does not moniter heat. ALL downstream O2 sensors monitor cat efficiency. If you have one after the cat, and you get rid of the cat and put the O2 back in you will throw a code. No if ands or buts. If you get a post cat O2 code 1 of 2 things are bad, either the O2 is shot or your cat is shot. On pre OBD II cars you could get away with getting rid of the cat, but with OBD II it's not possible to get rid of a cat and not throw a code.


This is outta the book I have in my shop

The post-cat O2 sensors are identical to the pre-cat O2 sensors (same voltage outputs). They are there only to monitor the performance of the catalytic converters. So, as discussed, the pre-cat sensor signals are oscillating between 0.2-0.8 volts. Once the exhaust gasses pass through the catalytic converter, most (all, in theory) excess fuel (hydrocarbons) will be combusted thus reducing hydrocarbon emissions. The cat uses oxygen in the exhaust to combust the fuel. So what you end up with in the exhaust after passing through the cat is a gas mixture that is reduced in hydrocarbons and reduced in oxygen relative to the mixture entering the cat. The post-cat exhaust gas mixture should be CONSTANTLY low in oxygen if the cat is doing its job of burning excess fuel. Therefore, the post-cat O2 sensor signal should be a constant lower voltage reading (not oscillating). So, if the post-cat O2 sensor is seen to oscillate just like the pre-cat O2 sensor, that means that the post-cat sensor is seeing the same gas mixture as the pre-cat sensor meaning that the catalytic converter isn't doing its job of burning excess fuel. The computer monitors the post-cat sensor and compares it to the pre-cat sensor. If the signals are similar, it assumes the cat is bad.


James

[KKiowaTJ]

Originally posted by JForestZ34
The downstream O2 does not moniter heat. ALL downstream O2 sensors monitor cat efficiency. If you have one after the cat, and you get rid of the cat and put the O2 back in you will throw a code. No if ands or buts. If you get a post cat O2 code 1 of 2 things are bad, either the O2 is shot or your cat is shot. On pre OBD II cars you could get away with getting rid of the cat, but with OBD II it's not possible to get rid of a cat and not throw a code.


This is outta the book I have in my shop

The post-cat O2 sensors are identical to the pre-cat O2 sensors (same voltage outputs). They are there only to monitor the performance of the catalytic converters. So, as discussed, the pre-cat sensor signals are oscillating between 0.2-0.8 volts. Once the exhaust gasses pass through the catalytic converter, most (all, in theory) excess fuel (hydrocarbons) will be combusted thus reducing hydrocarbon emissions. The cat uses oxygen in the exhaust to combust the fuel. So what you end up with in the exhaust after passing through the cat is a gas mixture that is reduced in hydrocarbons and reduced in oxygen relative to the mixture entering the cat. The post-cat exhaust gas mixture should be CONSTANTLY low in oxygen if the cat is doing its job of burning excess fuel. Therefore, the post-cat O2 sensor signal should be a constant lower voltage reading (not oscillating). So, if the post-cat O2 sensor is seen to oscillate just like the pre-cat O2 sensor, that means that the post-cat sensor is seeing the same gas mixture as the pre-cat sensor meaning that the catalytic converter isn't doing its job of burning excess fuel. The computer monitors the post-cat sensor and compares it to the pre-cat sensor. If the signals are similar, it assumes the cat is bad.



James


Sorry, But you and your book is full of ****.

Yeah, Thats what low cat efficiency is, HEAT. If the sensor gets warm like any exhaust does, It will not trip any light.

Im glad your "book" says that it will, I have many personal vehicles with no cat and the method i used above and have never had a light.

But then again, There is book smart, And real life street smart. But since your so smart, Tell me how and why my 97' OBD II cherokee has no cat and no light? And has been this way for many miles. Others i have, Have been gone for years.

Good luck with your book

[JForestZ34]

So what your saying is many tech books, schools and MANY ASE experienced techs are full of $&@: sorry I call bs and your full of it. Sorry but back yard mechanics are gone with OBD II. You can't diagnose anything without a scan tool. And yes the post cat measure if the cat is working or not. Has nothing to do with heat at all. Google it do what you want with it but take any car with OBD II and pull a cat off ad see if you get a cat efficiency code come up. You can't just delete a cat on a car that the computer is programmed to measure and not get a code when the downstream O2 sensor is reading the the cat is not working. It's not that easy. Like I said OBD I yes but not II. Stop spewing nonsense about something you don't know. I've been in the field for years and it doesn't work that way.


Bring your jeep to my shop and I'll explain it to you in person so you can understand it better. I've been wrenching on cars for years. Do you even have the bulb in for the cel light? OBD II does a bulb check. Did you know that? Do you even have a scan tool to diagnose engine performance on your jeep. Many O2 sensor need heat to start creating a signal. Once heat has been achieved then it will start producing a signal. Until then the system is in open loop until the sensor warms up which means the computer doesn't control many aspects of emissions until the car gets into closed loop. Work in a real shop instead of your backyard and you'll see it doesn't work the way you think it does.


James

[KKiowaTJ]

I have also been in the field for many years, Family owns a dealership and transmission shop.
So your telling me my jeep has a code? No light and they all work.

I have a DRB III, factory for all my vehicles plus a snap on mentor for observation.

If it wasn't that far I would bring it there. If you know anyone in my area I can take it to them and if their not blind, they can see, hear and drive it with 100% efficiency and no light.

I have many books too and many are wrong. I'm I-car platinum and ASE suspension/steering certified.

Your the one spewing lies, I can back mine up to any with-in reason.

[JForestZ34]

Being ASE certified in steering and suspension doesn't make you certified in engine performance.

If you want to spout qualifications I'm ASE master tech with L1 advanced engine performance.

Re-read or ask anyone in the business. POST cat O2 sensor are to monitor catalytic converter efficiency ONLY. It does not to it but heat. It does it by monitering oxygen levels in te exhaust mixture. Without a cat the exhaust mixture will be rich and then in turn the O2 sensor will flag the cat as being bad.

I'm not getting into a pissing match. I know how the system works and what it takes to correct the situation. Unless you have a custom tune or a plug fouler installed where your O2 sensor bung should be you will through a code. IT'S A FACT!!!!! And last time I checked I-car platinum is for collision and has nothing to do with vehicle repair for emission or engine performance. I'm done with this discussion. Ask around and I'm sure they will all tell you the same thing


James

[KKiowaTJ]

I build custom off road rigs and rebuild salvage titles. The only thing I was not fought, and the only thing a full body shop don't do, is motor rebuilds.

I know exactly how the wiring works. I'm not talking about not installing it, if you reinstall it in the same spot in the exhaust as long as exhaust hits the rear sensor it will run with no lights.

I could careless, I know what works and can prove it any day of the week.