450R for Fast Trail Riding?

[Blodg]

I have done searches and read through many of the old posts to get some ideas but also thought I would describe my situation and ask for some advice.

I am trying to decide if I should put money into the motor on my 400EX or just bite the bullet and get a 450R. I have owned ATV's for 20+ years and now that I am in my 40's I only trail ride. Some guys my age are moving on to utilities or UTV's but with my MX background it is just more fun for me to be on a sport quad. I own a Prairie 650 and love the sporty feel for a utility with the V-twin and solid rear axle but it is for work on my property and would never choose to take it on a trail ride with my buddies. The 400EX motor is stock but on the trails I push the pace with most buddies due to riding ability. But the group that goes riding from work has a couple new guys with two KFX450R's and another on a dirt bike. I have not ridden with them yet and I would probably be fine with a 11:1 piston/stage 2 cam/450R carb on the 400EX as long as I can keep up on the trails. But then I wonder if instead of spending $1,000 on the motor should I just get an older 450? I have never ridden a 450 but have been told the power band is more like a 2-stroke. Over the years I have owned a few 250R quads and a 250R trike but never liked the 2-stroke power band and I am probably just as fast in the woods on my stock 400EX.

This is turning into a book but I wanted to give some background and wondered if anyone else had any advice. If money was no object I would just go buy one of everything but with 4 kids and one in college I am trying to keep within a budget and keep the wife happy. I still have my old full race 500RX quad even though I only ride it about once a year around the yard. I kept it because I have over $10,000 in it when I built it in the mid 90's and would have to sell it for next to nothing. I thought about taming the suspension down and maybe going more narrow to use it for trail rides but the bored and stroked 350X is always leaking oil and the 250R frame is always cracking because everything is 25 years old. It is an absolute torque monster and should be fun for the trails but to be honest it vibrates so much, runs so hot, is very hard to kick start, no reverse, and then with the extra maintenance I prefer riding the 400EX. Of course if I was going to a track and doing a few 10 minute moto's instead of trail riding all day I would choose the 500RX. I keep thinking it would still be fun to take to the Silver Lake sand dunes one of these days but have never made a trip yet so I may just part it out if I did get a 450R.

CJM, have you ridden the 450R enough to judge it against your 426EX as a trail quad (fast trail riding)? Of course I know a 450R is faster in a drag but what about on the trail and which is more fun to ride?

I am sure you guys can tell that even though I am older and don't ride much I still have the itch!

[Balaz_73*00]

Don't let a couple young bucks on their 450s scare you. If your confident in your abilities, a 450 wouldn't make you really any faster on the trails. I feel I am a pretty decent rider, and Im confident I could jump on a stock 400 and ride faster than most weekend warriors on their 450s, point being its 90% rider, 10% machine. If I were you, I woulnd't spend any money on your motor or upgrading to a 450. Get a good stabilizer (if you don't already have one) and some nice trail tires and I'm sure you'll be just fine against some Kaws on the trails.

[CJM]

Ill chime in since I was asked :D

450r vs 400ex.
For fast trail riding Im confident on either of them, or even a stock 400ex. Where you tend to lose to the higher powered quads is the straight aways where you can maybe get up into 4th gear or higher (pretty common at one spot I go to).


my 450 is an 04 so its a little underpowered vs the new machines. But even so I find Im the same speed except due to the power difference and gearing I generally ride in 2nd gear vs 3rd or 4th with the EX. Is the 450 faster, yes compared to a stock EX and its only marginally faster than my 400 thats all worked.

For what its worth, a stock 400 handles excellent and is no slouch in the trails. One of my pals has a totally stock 400 and keeps up with us very good. I would agree it is about 80% or better the rider. Another friend also hopped on a stock EX when his 450 was down and I was amazed how quick he was. Same friend who rode the EX fast has a very worked stroker 06 450r, it is very fast in a drag race but in the woods Im right up on him with the EX. he can only go as fast as the trail conditions dictate-ya know?

Truthfully the 400 is a good quad. Yes it wont ever make the power of a 450 without serious money (talking stroker and whatnot) but its has more than enough power even in stock form to ride trails fast. If you want a bit more oomph then the 11:1 piston, stage 2 hotcam and removing the airbox lid is worth it. That alone made my machine much faster. Boring it helps but your not making huge power off that alone (I only bored it b/c I had to anyways). Id put the money into the EX. at this point you know whats with it and know its reliable and not abused. Buying new (or very little use) is the only way your gonna get the same condition 450 and then still you gotta start over.

The R carbs worth it, but not totally needed. In total without the carb, a piston (possible bore add $50-100), cam and gaskets (if you can do the work yourself) is about 300 or less. I like JE or wiseco pistons for the EX (although wiseco are heavy and tend to cause vibration a little). So its not really that bad to do in the end.

Whats more fun to ride? I still like my 400 and took it out vs the 450 this past sunday. I love the high comp setup as it makes ALOT of torque vs the stock 450 which has higher hp and likes to spin a good bit. Course its hard to compare b/c the 400s all decked out with every fast trail riding mod possible besides a-arms vs a stock 450.

[B.C.#11TRX400EX]

I ride XC and MX on a 450R now but i used to ride on a Ex the handling on the R is a little different than the Ex but i like R better for it, i can control it better and it has a lot more power to me than the Ex, after riding the ex for a year and switching to the 450 it seemed like a world of difference, it has so much power and i can ride it 10x better cause im confident i can ride almost ant terrain, the Ex is a bulletproof quad trust me i know!! but if u want somethin with more power with bout the same handling id get one but thats just me after owning both of them for a year, and riding the heck out of em!!

[Blodg]

Originally posted by Balaz_73*00
Don't let a couple young bucks on their 450s scare you.
LMAO, probably a true statement if I think about it.

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

Balaz, after thinking about it further you are right and having a 450R wouldn't make me that much faster on the trails. And CJM said the same thing regarding the actual speed on the trails. Especially if I couldn't make effecient use of the higher RPM horsepower of a 450 which is questionable.

I still want something more from the 400EX and CJM you also helped my thought process with saying a bigger bore isn't a big gain and maybe wasn't necessary. I had assumed a 416 or 426 and paying GTT to install the HD head studs. With your help I realize a stock bore 11:1 piston and cam is a good start for my needs and saves $ too. I am busy in the summer coaching my son's baseball team and will be better staying close to stock to minimize hassles/maintenance. I can do the work myself over the winter as I have torn down the 500 (350X) motor to the cases a few times.

Thanks for the input.

[finsteratv]

Maybe refresh the motor and get some good suspension under you! I love my 06 450er from my 400ex in almost every aspect. Better suspension, power and it i like the ergo's better. It feels much better for jumping and i feel as though i sit lower on the machine. Its a great bike...I'd say just jump to a 450r..You'll have better power and suspension and it will be stock. Then maybe throw on some skids and such..Kind of depends on your riding style which machine also.