PDA

View Full Version : Piston Rings or Valves? Suggestions.



ws450r
10-19-2012, 12:46 PM
A while back, I noticed some white smoke after a race when I unloaded my bike, or at least I thought it was. Didn't think much of it, let it sit and started it up a week later. This was back in the first part of September.When I started it that next weekend, I noticed some smoke when I popped the throttle. Read on different sites it could be coolant, head gasket, ect. Talked to a buddy of mine, he said it sounds more like valve guides.

I let it sit all week and changed engine and tranny oil that next weekend, for the first time since I bought it (only 1 two hour race ride time in that period). The previous owner had so much oil in it, you couldn't see a "line" in the sight glass. Filled it up to H, let it run for 3-4 minutes, let it settle, then put a little more oil in it, let it run, let it sit. Now after letting cool all the way down, the "line" is almost to the H, so about right.

After filling everything, I let it warm up, popped the throttle, basically did everything that I did last weekend to get the smoke. But, after that was complete, I didn't get any at that time. I drained each seperate to see if I had any coolant / oil seperation, but didn't get any. After that time, I just kind of ignored it, hoping that was the cure.

Fast forward.....Obviously, I don't start or ride this a lot right now. I went down to start it and let it warm up for a little while (first time started in 3 weeks, just sits in my basement), and noticed that maybe the smoke wasn't white to begin with afterall. When I started it outside it did look white, but sitting in my basement, at least with the way the lighting was, it almost has a blue tint. I've read that this could be piston rings, among other things.

It has a 13.5:1 JE Piston in it.

1. Could a guy re-ring that piston without taking the piston all the way out?
2. Should I just get a new piston and gaskets, since originally if it was white, it may have been leaking coolant (which I don't think it was since there was no coolant in the oil). I figured this would eliminate some problems that it may be.
3. How much would it hurt it if I rode it on the trails? No hard riding or racing, just nice leisurly trail riding. Could a guy ride it with burnt (minor maybe?) rings?

Sorry for the long post, just trying to get as much info out there that I can. I haven't rode it anywhere, so I can't see what is coming out of the exhaust, if anything at all, when I ride it. I guess I'm paranoid about riding it right now, with the possibility of tearing something up internally. Plus I don't know if it actually is the piston or valve train.

If I did ride it, it would be just some trail riding, nothing too crazy or at any races. I plan on over the winter to put a new piston and valves in, but just seeing what everyone suggested I could do in the short term. Just go ahead and ride it? If it lasts, it lasts? Or since I'm replacing some stuff, ride it until it blows?

CJM
10-19-2012, 01:05 PM
You gotta verify its burning oil. Easiest way to tell is if it smokes all the time of course.

Valve seals would be smoking only at startup till it warmed up and would go away.

1. Gotta remove the topend to put new rings on, no ifs ands or buts about it.
2. If you wanna ride it, thats up to you. I personally wouldnt but I dont like the possibility of it burning thru so much oil it burns the topend up.

With that high a compression you are using 100+ octane right? If you dont you could also be causing damage.

ws450r
10-19-2012, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by CJM
You gotta verify its burning oil. Easiest way to tell is if it smokes all the time of course.

Valve seals would be smoking only at startup till it warmed up and would go away.



With that high a compression you are using 100+ octane right? If you dont you could also be causing damage.

Thats what I wondered. With me only starting it up after pulling it out of the garage, I didn't know if it would go away. But, yeah, I'll have to ride it to find out.

I'm using 50/50 110 and 91. Someone was also saying the reason it was smoking, is it was burning carbon off the valves from the higher octane fuel. Like I said earlier, it's doing it after sitting for at least a week or more, and only me popping the throttle after a few minutes of warm up from ideling.

brewster426
10-19-2012, 02:04 PM
Probably just needs freshening up. Could be a number of things. I'd go ahead and do a top end and a valve job. Might as well when you have it apart.

simon7
10-20-2012, 05:59 AM
Definitely sounds like a blown head gasket. Even if your oil isn't milky. Gasket could be just leaking a little and burning off. If you are taking your head off do the rings, base gasket, head gasket, and valve seals. Check the valves out, I would at lest re-surface them. Make sure you have a cross hatch on the cylinder, I would do a quick ball hone to get a nice cross hatching (only 20 sec.). Use o.e.m. Honda head gasket ONLY.

ws450r
10-23-2012, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by simon7
Definitely sounds like a blown head gasket. Even if your oil isn't milky. Gasket could be just leaking a little and burning off. If you are taking your head off do the rings, base gasket, head gasket, and valve seals. Check the valves out, I would at lest re-surface them. Make sure you have a cross hatch on the cylinder, I would do a quick ball hone to get a nice cross hatching (only 20 sec.). Use o.e.m. Honda head gasket ONLY.

How much will it hurt it if I ride it in the meantime? As I mentioned earlier, not anything crazy, just down the road and leisurly riding.

I did notice after the one race I had on it, there was some caked on dusty oil on the back of the engine that had to leak from somewhere. Maybe it was the head gasket leaking a little, but the motor was extremely full of oil before I changed it, so if it did lose a little oil, it sure wasn't much.

CJM
10-23-2012, 02:07 PM
Dont ride with a blown head gasket or whatever it is. Do it right the first time and take it apart and see whats up.

You wouldnt drive a car with a blown headgasket, why would you ride a quad with one?