CJM, Dxcody, guys with 450 shocks on 400's...i Have a ??

[ben300]

So i bought 450 front shocks for $100, and they turned otu to be a piece, so i sold them and got a smoking deal on basically unused 450 fronts for $150 off ebay. well last weekend i went adn swapped my stock 400 fronts for hte 450.

i did it right, as in no grinding of the shock it self. i removed the 1/4-20 nut that was welded to the shock bracket and replaced it with a modified bolt that i shafed the head on a lathe. clears the shock just fine now. every thing looks good adn mates up good, accept, the 400 shock bracket has to thing strips of material, on facing toward the front of hte frame adn the other towards the back. the back strip of material, while the quad is at rest, is touching the the annodized uper portion of the shock jsut above the material the connects the shock and the resevoir.

what i want to know, is it pretty standard to shave that 1/8" to 1/4" off material off with a dremel or a cut of wheel to allow the shock to fit. i honest could just let it go, and it would eventually wear away i would imagine, but it would gauge the **** out of the upper part of the shock, and jsut for feel goods sake, i dont want to do that....

have you guys run into this problem? is this common and is this what you guys mean by saying your shaving a little bit of the shock mount off. i as an engineer, cannot see removing this little bit of material as much of a structural issue, and will weld in a gusset if need be.


just looking to hear from what you guys think

the first pic is of hte shock on the quad, adn the second is to show where the shock is rubbing....sorry i dont have a camera shot fo hte two touching

[ben300]

I take that back, i guess i can show here...its not really all the long piece, but more like about 1/16" of the radius area of this

[AtvKid4Eva]

the upper part of your 450 shock will never move enough to even come close to touching that gusset. When people talk about shaving the shock mount that is to get the thicker 450r shock stud to fit into the 400ex frame.

[ben300]

Originally posted by AtvKid4Eva
the upper part of your 450 shock will never move enough to even come close to touching that gusset. When people talk about shaving the shock mount that is to get the thicker 450r shock stud to fit into the 400ex frame.


the shock stud slid into the frame just fine. i mic'd it out and the difference is negligable. im telling you that the shock eyelet material is actually touching the gusset on the frame....its not bad touching...but it smarking up the shock and i dont want to that to happen

[AtvKid4Eva]

okay i see what your saying now. I would just take a dremel and sand it down to a minumum so it fits. Im sure thats what others are talking about when they say they have to grind some of the upper shock mount to put the 450 shocks on a 400. Id do that before trimming the gusset on the frame. If you do it nocely it will still look stock.

[ben300]

Originally posted by AtvKid4Eva
okay i see what your saying now. I would just take a dremel and sand it down to a minumum so it fits. Im sure thats what others are talking about when they say they have to grind some of the upper shock mount to put the 450 shocks on a 400. Id do that before trimming the gusset on the frame. If you do it nocely it will still look stock.


thats kind of essentially what im doing. its only between a 1/16 to a 1/8th of inch of material that needs to be taken away....im definitely not removing all of hte gusset, just shaving it a little

[dxcody]

Originally posted by ben300
thats kind of essentially what im doing. its only between a 1/16 to a 1/8th of inch of material that needs to be taken away....im definitely not removing all of hte gusset, just shaving it a little

I would deff agree with that. Sounds like a good idea 4sure.

Most of the time when you see 400ex frames snapping, or breaking its from back by the seat, and by the oil cooler.

So i dont think you have to worry about it breaking up front very much.
You could even take a pair of channel locks and maybe bend that gusset out a little bit..

[CJM]

I shaved the gusset on mine and 2 other friends. No issues at all. Your not taking enough material off to matter.

[2001400exrida]

that's exactly what i did with mine, just grind or use a cutting wheel on a dremil to cut a small piece out.

[Pittsburgh400ex]

I did the same thing man. Used a die grinder on the frame there and no issues.

[ben300]

alright, im sold! thanks for the reply's guys.

ill post pics when im done tomorrow.

[HondaRacing83]

post pics of ypur whole quad! curious how similar it is to mine

[ben300]

well, i finally got some time this past evening to finish up what i needed to do with the shocks to get them to fit right on the 400.

i ended up taking between 1/16-1/8 of an inch of material off of the shock mount brackets. i also tried to shape them to be, from what i could recolect in my mind, what the 450r brackets looked right (i could be totally wronge :confused: )

anyways, im happy with the way they turned out. hopefully the mounts will hold up fine, and i'll be able to get these babys revalved and dual rate resprung by GTT this winter so i can run the sport class in GNCC next season.

here'ss a few pics of what i did. sorry i didnt get pics of the right shock mount prior to being painted (i was busy talking to my lady friend and helping my buddy figure out his electrical issue on his LTR).

I ended up using just a gray, rustoleum primer that i got from lowes. it actually matches pretty close to the original color of the frame. if you look real close, you can tell the difference, but from more than a foot away, its not noticable. this winter once i do my engine rebuild, im going to strip it down to bare frame, powder coate the frame/bumper black, the a-arms/swing arm/stem white, and ill get Spastic Designs to cut me some matching custom graphics....should look good when done

[ben300]

the right bracket painted

[ben300]

close up of the right bracket. i actually took a dremmel and took that sharp edge off on there and used the dremel and a file and smothed it out to match the left side, and then painted it again lol

[ben300]

the left side bracket prior to being painted. the left side, because i had already done the right, took way less time because i already knew what i wanted to do

[ben300]

up close of the left side

[ben300]

up close look at the bracket and shock once finished

[ben300]

finished product. she's a little dirty and me and my ridign crew are doing the atv drags at a local fair this friday ngiht, so im gonna have to get her cleaned for that, but i cant waint till this winter to do my rebuild

im gonna do the frame and suspension componenets as stated above, going to get some all black hipers with white rings for her, and im probably going to get a PRM summit bumper for it too...

i know it seems pointless to do up a 400, but i wanna get soem seat time in the sport class next season in GNCC before i move up to the 450 and try to be competitive, and i also plan, when my brother graduates college adn goes into active duty in the army, i plan on giving this biek to him as a gift before i get a 450...that way he'll have a nice bike that he doesnt have to do work to or put money into when he comes home from active duty and we go riding

[chronicsmoke]

Turned out good ben, looks factory. I don't know if mine had a clearence issue, I dont think they did. If they did I never noticed it lol

[Stickman400]

Sounds like a good plan ben, that'd be an awesome gift to get. To add to the post, I went out and looked at that gusset on my frame and my shocks are hitting it also, and they've been that way for atleast a year, but I never noticed. If I get a chance I'll unbolt one and take a pic of the wear on the shock and frame and update this post.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Why would you cut down your frame and repaint it when you could just shave alittle material off the shock and be done???????? :muscle:

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by ben300
i honest could just let it go, and it would eventually wear away i would imagine, but it would gauge the **** out of the upper part of the shock, and jsut for feel goods sake, i dont want to do that....



That's why :p

[ben300]

Originally posted by chronicsmoke
Turned out good ben, looks factory. I don't know if mine had a clearence issue, I dont think they did. If they did I never noticed it lol

thanks smoke. ya, it probably wouldnt have realy made a difference if i didnt do it. it would have eventually worn away the material on the shock itself and probably a little material on the gusset (the steel used on hte frame is significantly harder than the, what i believeed to be, machined magnesium used on teh shock). but call it being picky, or me being an engineer, or what ever, but knew it was hitting, and it would have realy bothered me just knowing that htat was hitting....im kinda of anal about things like that.


either way, im happy with how it turned out.

[ben300]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Sounds like a good plan ben, that'd be an awesome gift to get. To add to the post, I went out and looked at that gusset on my frame and my shocks are hitting it also, and they've been that way for atleast a year, but I never noticed. If I get a chance I'll unbolt one and take a pic of the wear on the shock and frame and update this post.

please do! i would love to see how this wears on the shock and the frame and what kind of damage it has done to teh shock itself. it probably isnt much of an issue. mine never got gauged up because the quad never left teh garage untill i got this right and done.

but do post some picks, and anyone else that has done this mod w/out shaving the shock or the bracket, post some picks of how it looks on your bikes as well? should make for a good topic.

[ben300]

Originally posted by TheAwesomehonda
Why would you cut down your frame and repaint it when you could just shave alittle material off the shock and be done???????? :muscle:


why? cause i dont want to damage the shock. the material you remove from your frame theoretically is not enough to cause any structural damage, in my engineering opinion, to warrant not doing this.


id much rather shave some of the gusset material way, than start grinding on the shock. the material on the frame is just extra, and probably in terms of structural strenth, does not add much stength to the stock chassis. not to mention, the shock itself is not designed to have ANY material removed from it all, whether it be you grind it to clear the fend mounting nut or for it to clear the gusset. by grinding the shock, you take a point of stress concentration and change it...and while this probably would not cause the shock eyelet to fail in any way......i ust didnt want to do that

if you look at a 450r shock bracket, they dont have these gussets......so, im sure it'll be alright, not to mention many other members on here have done this, this way


not to mention, if something does happen ot eth bracket, i have the engineering means to come up with a workable fix/solution:devil:

[CJM]

^ Exactly.

You guys wanna tear up a perfectly good pair of shocks, go right ahead. Im not gonna do it, its a waste of good shocks.

Your grinding so little off the shock mount it doesnt make a difference. I also have NEVER seen someones shock mounts take a crap from grinding on the frame. If anything the reasons peoples brackets break isnt a faulty weld or to small of support-its smashing into the ground on a shock not designed for the quad or even the stock shocks being totally not designed for it. Thats why it snaps there, the shocks dont have enough give and thats the weakest point.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Well do what you guys want but your way is more difficult and weakens the frame.. I've never seen i shock crack but many 400ex frames crack....:devil:

[ben300]

Originally posted by TheAwesomehonda
Well do what you guys want but your way is more difficult and weakens the frame.. I've never seen i shock crack but many 400ex frames crack....:devil:


it feasibly wont crack the frame...first off, its removing excess gusset, thats all. its not even actually part of the "rame" its just a gusset on a bracket

second, the only thing i would be concerned about is ripping the eyelet out of the bracket on that side, however, if you look at what i removed, the same ammount of material is teh same as on the front of the bracket, which would leave me to believe that its ok..

third, this jsut istn a bracket thats welded on...its actually the end of a cross member on the frame...so its sturdier than you think

dont be hatting cause you were to lazy to make your bike look cosmetically nice

[dxcody]

Ben, you will have to ignore "awesomehonda"

He is known as the village idiot around here.

[ben300]

Originally posted by dxcody
Ben, you will have to ignore "awesomehonda"

He is known as the village idiot around here.


advice noted

[2001400exrida]

awesome detailed write up ben.

I agree with you and CJM, shaving the tiny bit off the frame like we have done is the best option. If you ever want to replace the shocks down the road you're already setup for new 450 shocks and you won't have to worry about shaving those down too. I'm glad somebody finally did a nice clean picture thread on this, it's going to help some of the guys who don't understand the concept.

[ben300]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
awesome detailed write up ben.

I agree with you and CJM, shaving the tiny bit off the frame like we have done is the best option. If you ever want to replace the shocks down the road you're already setup for new 450 shocks and you won't have to worry about shaving those down too. I'm glad somebody finally did a nice clean picture thread on this, it's going to help some of the guys who don't understand the concept.

thanks, i actually really really enjoyed this whole process. i should have docummented it even better though so that i could have posted it on here in more detail

i think this evening i'll get out my DSLR camera and take some pictures of how i modified the mounting bolt/mounting bracket for the fender plastic. it was actually very simple and took minimal time tomodify

[ben300]

this took me quite a bit of time at first cause i didnt know what i needed or how i wanted to go about actually doing it, but if given the chanc eto help someone else out with this process, i could definitely do this entire mod again in probalby 2 hours top, if given the correct tools right off the bat

[CJM]

I had an interesting reply typed up, but meh not worth it.

All I can say is: If someone wants to ruin some perfectly good shocks then so be. I for one wouldnt EVER buy a set of shocks that looked like that.

Glad it worked out for ya ben!

x2 2001

[ben300]

Originally posted by CJM
I had an interesting reply typed up, but meh not worth it.

All I can say is: If someone wants to ruin some perfectly good shocks then so be. I for one wouldnt EVER buy a set of shocks that looked like that.

Glad it worked out for ya ben!

x2 2001

thanks man, i am totally happy with it. glad i can get good advice from you guys as well!


anyways, i agree. if your gonna do something, do it right. i went out adn beat around on the bike pretty hard last ngiht to see what would happen. inspected it today....not a crack, nor a bend, or any problem what so ever...and the damn thing looks like it came with the 450 shocks from the factory to!!



i have one question now...which nob on it controls the compression, and which nop controls the rebound? top or bottom?

it blows my mind the lack of info out there on how to properly set up atv suspension

[dxcody]

Originally posted by ben300
thanks man, i am totally happy with it. glad i can get good advice from you guys as well!


anyways, i agree. if your gonna do something, do it right. i went out adn beat around on the bike pretty hard last ngiht to see what would happen. inspected it today....not a crack, nor a bend, or any problem what so ever...and the damn thing looks like it came with the 450 shocks from the factory to!!



i have one question now...which nob on it controls the compression, and which nop controls the rebound? top or bottom?

it blows my mind the lack of info out there on how to properly set up atv suspension

Rebound is at the bottom mount of the shock, compression is near the resi.

[ben300]

Originally posted by dxcody
Rebound is at the bottom mount of the shock, compression is near the resi.


gotcha, thanks.

so for XC, would you want the compression stiffer and the rebound slower, or is kind of a play around thing?

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by ben300
it feasibly wont crack the frame...first off, its removing excess gusset, thats all. its not even actually part of the "rame" its just a gusset on a bracket

second, the only thing i would be concerned about is ripping the eyelet out of the bracket on that side, however, if you look at what i removed, the same ammount of material is teh same as on the front of the bracket, which would leave me to believe that its ok..

third, this jsut istn a bracket thats welded on...its actually the end of a cross member on the frame...so its sturdier than you think

dont be hatting cause you were to lazy to make your bike look cosmetically nice How can you call it an excess gusset? They make the frame that way for a reason and i don't think that cutting material off of it will not cause a problem but it doesn't make sense when you could take alittle off the shock instead..

[ben300]

Originally posted by TheAwesomehonda
How can you call it an excess gusset? They make the frame that way for a reason and i don't think that cutting material off of it will cause a problem but it doesn't make sense when you could take alittle off the shock instead..


because its un needed...the bracket is the same as teh 450 accept of the extra material....


but for the time being...

[CJM]

/facepalm

[dxcody]

Originally posted by ben300
gotcha, thanks.

so for XC, would you want the compression stiffer and the rebound slower, or is kind of a play around thing?

For xc, you will def want the compression turned down quite a bit. That will make it a smoother ride.
I dont have an explanation to back this up, but DO NOT BOTTOM OUT THE CLICKERS!
(compression and rebound adjusters)

Thats what Nick @ Jet told me in a very stern voice. I do not know why, you arent suppose to bottom them out, but he just said dont do it, so im guessing its not a good idea to do it.

The rebound is 100% you. I like to have my rebound fairly slow on rough tight trails and a little faster on the high speed stuff.

Its whatever you like.

You wont notice a huge difference in just adjusting the clickers, but just work around with them, get them how you want them... I mean, with what little you can do with stock 450R shocks, just remember, every little bit helps.

I would just go ride, and take a slot screw driver with you, play with them and figure out what is best for you, and how you like it.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by ben300
because its un needed...the bracket is the same as teh 450 accept of the extra material....


but for the time being... Ok i see your obviously set in your way so i hope it works for you.. But seriously grow up man.

[CJM]

If you bottom out either adjustment it doesnt feed oil properly thru the valves..I guess it burns up the oil quicker or something.

[TheLane]

Originally posted by dxcody
For xc, you will def want the compression turned down quite a bit. That will make it a smoother ride.
I dont have an explanation to back this up, but DO NOT BOTTOM OUT THE CLICKERS!
(compression and rebound adjusters)

Thats what Nick @ Jet told me in a very stern voice. I do not know why, you arent suppose to bottom them out, but he just said dont do it, so im guessing its not a good idea to do it.

The rebound is 100% you. I like to have my rebound fairly slow on rough tight trails and a little faster on the high speed stuff.

Its whatever you like.

You wont notice a huge difference in just adjusting the clickers, but just work around with them, get them how you want them... I mean, with what little you can do with stock 450R shocks, just remember, every little bit helps.

I would just go ride, and take a slot screw driver with you, play with them and figure out what is best for you, and how you like it.


ive beeen just kind of following this post and since someone is stumped i will jump in!

Cjm is on the right track. When you bottom out that screw it essentially completely closes the valve off allowing little to no fluid to travel through/to and from the shock and rezzy.. This can result in a blown bladder, and premature wear on all your shock internals, including seals and shock fluid.

[ben300]

Originally posted by TheLane
ive beeen just kind of following this post and since someone is stumped i will jump in!

Cjm is on the right track. When you bottom out that screw it essentially completely closes the valve off allowing little to no fluid to travel through/to and from the shock and rezzy.. This can result in a blown bladder, and premature wear on all your shock internals, including seals and shock fluid.


ok so let me run this scenario by you guys then...if for say, im going to adjust them, and i start by bottoming the adjustment out and then take it a click or two off the bottom, mind being i haven't even fired up the bike yet or even got on it to ride it..does this still hurt the shocks? and i don't know if that is what you guys are saying, but that's what your making it sound like ya know?


i haven't played with the adjustments at all yet, but i was on jet suspensions web site, and they, from what i can remember, said to set both the compression the rebound as hard and as slow as possible, go a couple clicks off that, and then work from there......so with this being said, the only way to tell if you are all the way hard on compression and are as slow as possible on the rebound, is to bottom the adjustments out before you ride them

like i have said, i haven't adjusted anything yet, cause im not quite sure what im doing and i don't want to mess them up......i got two weeks before the PAXC series picks back up

[ben300]

Originally posted by TheAwesomehonda
Ok i see your obviously set in your way so i hope it works for you.. But seriously grow up man.



just drop it...if your not going to contribute educationally to my thread...just stay out

[Stickman400]

I also have the same question that ben just posted. I bottom mine out then count how many times I turn them out so I have a reference point to go from. How would you know where your at if you don't bottom them out?

[Ruby Soho]

good job man. i hate seeing people grind the 450 shocks.

[ben300]

Originally posted by Ruby Soho
good job man. i hate seeing people grind the 450 shocks.

thanks man! i wanted to make sure it was done right, so i took my time and it turned out great!:D

[ben300]

do you understand what i was asking a few posts back about bottoming out the clicks and bringing them back a couple before riding it?

this is where i was reading about it at
...i thought i read it on jet suspensions website...but it was actually an Derisi's website

http://derisiracing.com/home/suspension/setup

[ben300]

a little more on the preload and determining your spring rates

http://derisiracing.com/home/suspension/suspension-design

[ben300]

and this is from Jet Suspensions website in regards to right height


unless you send the 450 shocks out ot get revalved, resprung, and have the shock shaft cut right, you will never be able to get those ride heights with the 450 fronts on a 400ex...

you can use a lowering backet, however, that changes the whole geometry of the front end in regards to shock angle, leverage angle, forces applied to he shock mounts, and it also changes the moment arm applied to the a-arms, and i would highly not recommend using lowering brackets at all..

$350-$450 to have teh shocks set up right for the 400 is alot cheaper than destroying your frame, and getting yourself hurt

[CJM]

^ Pretty much the only way they will work properly.

Before I nabbed a 450r I was planning on getting +1 arms and later getting the shocks redone. To say the ride is harsh with stock r shocks and stock arms is kinda an understatement. They are better than the stockers however.

[TheLane]

Bottoming out the adjusters, then backing them out wont hurt it. You just dont want to ride with them bottomed out.

Youre correct, you have to bottom them all the way out to made sure you know what your reference point is.

[TheLane]

Originally posted by ben300
and this is from Jet Suspensions website in regards to right height


unless you send the 450 shocks out ot get revalved, resprung, and have the shock shaft cut right, you will never be able to get those ride heights with the 450 fronts on a 400ex...

you can use a lowering backet, however, that changes the whole geometry of the front end in regards to shock angle, leverage angle, forces applied to he shock mounts, and it also changes the moment arm applied to the a-arms, and i would highly not recommend using lowering brackets at all..

$350-$450 to have teh shocks set up right for the 400 is alot cheaper than destroying your frame, and getting yourself hurt

ehhhhh....I wouldnt go with that info from that company as your final word. Different companies have different opinions on this.

Before i bought my aftermarket fox DSC for the rear on my quad, i was running a stock shock and the ride hight was never low enough.

I mentioned cutting the shock down to one of the senior shock builders at Racetech( one of my sponsors) and he told me that cutting down the shock is the absolute LAST thing they would want to do to a shock. Keep in mind, this is coming from a shock manufacturer, not just a fab shop that mods existing shocks.

What racetech did is use a triple rate spring setup to set the ride hight lower so that you did not sacrifice shock travel like you do when you cut the shock.

IE: the top spring would be a tender spring, Or a spring that will be fully compressed under the weight of the bike. ( this is where your lower ride height comes from )

Spring two would be your quick motion spring ( whoops, bumps ect)

Spring 3 would handle your body roll and heavy load shock absorbing ( Jumps, cornering ECT)

This allows you to have the same ride hight as if you had cut the spring, but you also have your original travel intact as well ( which comes in handy for large blows, like flat landing a jump)


But the point he is making is still very very valid, either way, any shock you will be using will need to be built/rebuilt for your specific weight, riding style, and skill level.

[ben300]

Originally posted by TheLane
ehhhhh....I wouldnt go with that info from that company as your final word. Different companies have different opinions on this.

Before i bought my aftermarket fox DSC for the rear on my quad, i was running a stock shock and the ride hight was never low enough.

I mentioned cutting the shock down to one of the senior shock builders at Racetech( one of my sponsors) and he told me that cutting down the shock is the absolute LAST thing they would want to do to a shock. Keep in mind, this is coming from a shock manufacturer, not just a fab shop that mods existing shocks.

What racetech did is use a triple rate spring setup to set the ride hight lower so that you did not sacrifice shock travel like you do when you cut the shock.

IE: the top spring would be a tender spring, Or a spring that will be fully compressed under the weight of the bike. ( this is where your lower ride height comes from )

Spring two would be your quick motion spring ( whoops, bumps ect)

Spring 3 would handle your body roll and heavy load shock absorbing ( Jumps, cornering ECT)

This allows you to have the same ride hight as if you had cut the spring, but you also have your original travel intact as well ( which comes in handy for large blows, like flat landing a jump)


But the point he is making is still very very valid, either way, any shock you will be using will need to be built/rebuilt for your specific weight, riding style, and skill level.

great info....and yes, i am, at some point before march 2013, plan on having my shocks sent out, rebuilt, and resprung for my riding style....just dotn have the funds at the current time to do so

[CJM]

Check your pm ben

[dustin_j]

Originally posted by TheLane
ehhhhh....I wouldnt go with that info from that company as your final word. Different companies have different opinions on this.

Before i bought my aftermarket fox DSC for the rear on my quad, i was running a stock shock and the ride hight was never low enough.

I mentioned cutting the shock down to one of the senior shock builders at Racetech( one of my sponsors) and he told me that cutting down the shock is the absolute LAST thing they would want to do to a shock. Keep in mind, this is coming from a shock manufacturer, not just a fab shop that mods existing shocks.

What racetech did is use a triple rate spring setup to set the ride hight lower so that you did not sacrifice shock travel like you do when you cut the shock.

IE: the top spring would be a tender spring, Or a spring that will be fully compressed under the weight of the bike. ( this is where your lower ride height comes from )

Spring two would be your quick motion spring ( whoops, bumps ect)

Spring 3 would handle your body roll and heavy load shock absorbing ( Jumps, cornering ECT)

This allows you to have the same ride hight as if you had cut the spring, but you also have your original travel intact as well ( which comes in handy for large blows, like flat landing a jump)


But the point he is making is still very very valid, either way, any shock you will be using will need to be built/rebuilt for your specific weight, riding style, and skill level.

This is a valid point if the original extended and compressed lengths are correct for your setup. Jet is correct that the stock 450R extended and compressed lengths hold back the shock on a 400ex. The extended length is longer than you need, and the compressed length is too long, making the shock bottom out too soon. Multiple springs (dual rate is enough, but triple works also) is the way to go, as they allow sag but maintain bottoming resistance. However, adding springs isn't always the answer if the shock is wrong to start with.

[TheLane]

Originally posted by dustin_j
This is a valid point if the original extended and compressed lengths are correct for your setup. Jet is correct that the stock 450R extended and compressed lengths hold back the shock on a 400ex. The extended length is longer than you need, and the compressed length is too long, making the shock bottom out too soon. Multiple springs (dual rate is enough, but triple works also) is the way to go, as they allow sag but maintain bottoming resistance. However, adding springs isn't always the answer if the shock is wrong to start with.

And this is why i said everyone has a different opinion (at least the part about needing to cut the shock)

We could go into why crossovers would help to eliminate that problem and blah blah blah, but i dont really feel like getting into a 5 page dispute.

OP, just do your homework. Call and talk to the experts at different shock companies, get their opinion, because at the end of the day noone on this forum is going to have hard data to back up what they are saying, and its going to come down to who is the best at arguing their point, not what your best solution is.

[dxcody]

I have a simple question
Why is GT Thunder so against Triple rate shocks?

HAHA

[dustin_j]

Originally posted by dxcody
I have a simple question
Why is GT Thunder so against Triple rate shocks?

HAHA

My opinion is because the window in which they offer benefit is small, they cost more, and they are a little more difficult to setup.

[chronicsmoke]

Body roll maybe?

Just to keep the discussion going, I had Terry @ Stadium change my Quad rate shocks into triple rates at his recommendation to reduce body roll. He did say something about the quad rates being very good at XC though :confused: I wish I knew more than I do about this.

Edit: Saw Dustin's post after this

[Stickman400]

My quad rate Elkas on the 450 are INSANELY smooth at low speeds and also once you get going pretty good. I haven't hit any big jumps yet so I don't know how well they will do there. Now my Jet 450R triple rates on the 400 are also very good but aren't nearly as smooth at the quads on my 450. They work awesome when you're rding hard on a track or in the trails but for just cruising aorund they aren't very smooth. I haven't tinkered around with them much though, so they prolly have it in them, I just don't feel like messing them. I just wanna ride! lol :macho

[CJM]

Too hard to get such shocks dialed in right. Way too much fine adjustment for most. Now if your chris borich or wimmer or someone special who people work on your quad for ya then its no matter.

[TheLane]

Originally posted by CJM
Too hard to get such shocks dialed in right. Way too much fine adjustment for most. Now if your chris borich or wimmer or someone special who people work on your quad for ya then its no matter.

If you have a good shock builder make your shocks for you, you shouldnt have to dial anything in. Which is why a lot of PEP's dont even come with a compression adjustment.

[dxcody]

You should really see what nick @ Jet does at those "test and Tune" sessions.

He has a track, tells you to take off riding, (with a ghost rider) you come back tell him what you think and if its not right, they take it completely back apart and try again, and keep going until your satisfied.

Nick is good at what he does, So is GTT.. All i have rode is a set of HLS on a YFZr and they were amazing, so i couldnt compare them to Jet though.

[ben300]

Originally posted by dxcody
You should really see what nick @ Jet does at those "test and Tune" sessions.

He has a track, tells you to take off riding, (with a ghost rider) you come back tell him what you think and if its not right, they take it completely back apart and try again, and keep going until your satisfied.

Nick is good at what he does, So is GTT.. All i have rode is a set of HLS on a YFZr and they were amazing, so i couldnt compare them to Jet though.

i would love to do that! thats for sure


i saw that, i think it was racetech, was overing complete suspension and shock design, rebuilding, and set up courses at their facility....... i definitely have the vacation time left for the year to go down and do it, but its just hard to commit the time to go there and actually take the course......but it would be a fantastic course to take though!!!

[ben300]

Originally posted by dxcody
You should really see what nick @ Jet does at those "test and Tune" sessions.

He has a track, tells you to take off riding, (with a ghost rider) you come back tell him what you think and if its not right, they take it completely back apart and try again, and keep going until your satisfied.

Nick is good at what he does, So is GTT.. All i have rode is a set of HLS on a YFZr and they were amazing, so i couldnt compare them to Jet though.


also, local kid, Andrew Hickson (spl?) who has jsut been dominating all the C class local xc races and even has won a few mx nationals this year is running the HLS elites......he sure is fast as **** on those


ill be really interested to see the difference in teh 450 shocks on my 400 once i get them rebuilt and set up for me.....my next race is on the 9th here coming up, and ill have a solid 5 races on the stock 450 fronts before the end of hte season...maybe 6 races if i do the "Gobbler" thanksgiving HS at Switchback in butler, pa.....but ill have a good feel for how they were and then ill get to se ehow they are after teh rebuild...

[dxcody]

Good luck ben! Hope they work well for you!


****Breaking News****
To anyone with the HLS non Resi style shocks,

GTT just now, (literally right now) started selling a kit on ebay, for DIY to convert your non resi shocks to Remote ressi shocks!

[dustin_j]

Originally posted by ben300
i would love to do that! thats for sure


i saw that, i think it was racetech, was overing complete suspension and shock design, rebuilding, and set up courses at their facility....... i definitely have the vacation time left for the year to go down and do it, but its just hard to commit the time to go there and actually take the course......but it would be a fantastic course to take though!!!

M@ul Tech ATV has a good suspension course, similar to the GT Thunder and I'm sure Race Tech courses. He is located in south central Illinois. I'm not sure when, but I imagine he'll host another soon.

Nick's test and tune session is an awesome idea. If your shock builder can watch you ride and get immediate feedback, it's a lot easier to meet a rider's desires.

[Stickman400]

Originally posted by ben300
please do! i would love to see how this wears on the shock and the frame and what kind of damage it has done to teh shock itself. it probably isnt much of an issue. mine never got gauged up because the quad never left teh garage untill i got this right and done.

but do post some picks, and anyone else that has done this mod w/out shaving the shock or the bracket, post some picks of how it looks on your bikes as well? should make for a good topic. Well 4 months later I finally got around to tearing my 400 down to PC some things and remembered this thread and here are some pics of were it was wearing. On the frame it barely even rubbed through the clear coat, you can barely even see it in the pics. The shock body has a tiny little nick right on the corner of the eyelet, looks like it took a light hit from a hammer or something. Very small.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/20121227_181316.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/20121227_181243.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/20121227_181204.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/20121227_181143.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/20121227_181553.jpg

[CJM]

Thats a nice looking gouge.

[Stickman400]

It's not that big, the picture makes it look worse than it is. It's about the size of a tip of a pencil.