View Full Version : Knocking noise!
I just got done breakin in the 416 and decided to hit the gas hard and as soon as I shifted to third I heard a knock and now it does it in every gear. It is real inconsistant though, like something has slack in it. It sounds like it is on the left side but it is real hard to tell. I have pulled the left side cover and didn't see anything that would make the noise. Also if you pull in the clutch it does not make the noise so that seems like it would be something from the clutch through the tranny, but I would like some ideas what it could be.
MxBlaster2x
03-09-2003, 12:21 PM
r u letting it idle alot because sometimes on fourstrokes if u let them idle they will knock...
ShiftFMX
03-09-2003, 01:38 PM
umm....my 250 started making a knocking noise bout 5 minutes b4 it blew up...:(
yeah my friends z400 was about to sieze and it was knocking pretty bad, i think its the valves hitting the piston but i really have no clue
if i were you i wouldnt run it until you figure it out
F-16Guy
03-09-2003, 02:09 PM
Damn, that sucks! Is it smoking? Is it running O.K.? Does it make the noise in neutral with the clutch out? In? You only had the top end apart, right?
Originally posted by F-16Guy
Damn, that sucks! Is it smoking? Is it running O.K.? Does it make the noise in neutral with the clutch out? In? You only had the top end apart, right?
It does make the noise in neutral with the clutch out. Also the noise doesn't seem to speed up or slow down in different gears.
It runs fine and shifts fine. It is just making noise. I took the valve cover off and everythings is still looking good there. But I have pretty much eleminated everything back to the clutch.
airheadedduner
03-09-2003, 03:26 PM
The only thing I could think it would be is piston slap:(
I just got the clutch side cover off and the cluctch plate and found that if you spin the inner basket the whole thing wobbles. What would make this wobble. Also I did find broken pieces at the botton of the case so something is broken inside, I just dont know what.
F-16Guy
03-10-2003, 07:07 AM
The inner basket wobbles? It is splined on to the crank. The only way I can think that that would woble is if it were cracked/broken around the splined hole. Did you have any damaged clutch plates? What did the pieces you found look like?
MoparTrav
03-10-2003, 07:42 AM
what's the metal look like, could you of broke the ring's on the piston, when it's in nuetral and you rev it up, it doesn't make the noise, only when it's under a load, might want to check your gears or chain.
It makes the noise in every gear even neutral. I know it is something in the tranny I just don't know what it will be. Is there anythign specific that has been know to be a weak point in the tranny. The peices looks like clutch plates but I don't see any of the plates broken.
Also the noise doesn't speed up or slow down in different gears which tells me it is something on the main shaft. I just can't see the main shaft being bend though, beacause that is one stout little shaft.
Gusto
03-10-2003, 09:43 AM
Look and see if the bottom of your sleeve has broken off? I blew my 416 that way, it just made alot of small pieces ( I call them chicklets).
Originally posted by Gusto
Look and see if the bottom of your sleeve has broken off? I blew my 416 that way, it just made alot of small pieces ( I call them chicklets).
I am sure it is in the tranny. I am just waiting to get a flywheel puler tonight and get torn into it.
Extremeracer167
03-10-2003, 10:00 AM
mine does that with a 10w40 oil with a freshly rebuilt motor. But wont do it with a 20w50. So ide try that. it would be ALOT less work then splitting the cases.
UglyMotha™
03-10-2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Extremeracer167
mine does that with a 10w40 oil with a freshly rebuilt motor. But wont do it with a 20w50. So ide try that. it would be ALOT less work then splitting the cases.
so uh let me get this straight by running a different weight motor oil he's goin to get rid of the knock plus chapnaral *sp that he found when he pulled the cover not to mention the wobbly clutch basket:confused2
that's a new one on me:huh
Originally posted by UglyMotha
so uh let me get this straight by running a different weight motor oil he's goin to get rid of the knock plus chapnaral *sp that he found when he pulled the cover not to mention the wobbly clutch basket:confused2
that's a new one on me:huh
Thanks, I was thinking the same thing but I didn't want to sound like a jerk.
Also, is there anyone that makes aftermarket tranny parts? I just hate putting stuff back together with stock stuff. But if stock is the best then I guess that is what I will do!
F-16Guy
03-10-2003, 11:04 AM
D@mn, that sounds like some good oil!!:blah
Seriously, gojk, I think you're on the right track. It has to be on the crank shaft (clutch), or maybe a piece of debris got wedged in between the teeth on the primary/clutch gear when whatever came apart came apart. Post what you find, maybe I can use the info when/if mine shells. ***fingers crossed***
F-16Guy
03-10-2003, 11:09 AM
gojk,
BTW, did your circlips fit tight? I had a problem with mine, and Wiseco ended up sending me a new sleeve and piston kit due to the damage. I hope that was an isolated incident
Extremeracer167
03-10-2003, 12:09 PM
sorry smart@$$ i missed that part:rolleyes:
UglyMotha™
03-10-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Extremeracer167
sorry smart@$$ i missed that part:rolleyes:
yup :huh
Originally posted by F-16Guy
gojk,
BTW, did your circlips fit tight? I had a problem with mine, and Wiseco ended up sending me a new sleeve and piston kit due to the damage. I hope that was an isolated incident
The circlips did fit very tight. They were a pain in the @$$ to install. Also I will post what it is. I will prob have it torn down by tonight.
Can anybody tell me the size bolt that it takes to pull the flywheel. I know it says use a flywheel puller but that is all it is right?
400grl
03-10-2003, 04:40 PM
I don't know about aftermarket tranny parts....I'm kind of the opposite. I would rather buy stock internals - they are fairly cheap (at least they seem to be) and seem to hold up just fine. Especially Honda stuff.........Curious to see what happened in there!
Finally got the case split and found alot. The main tranny shaft is bent and the 3rd gear on the countershaft has two teeth broke off of it. And I found what caused it all. Somehow something hit the bottom of the cylinder and knocked a chunk out of it, so the peices went throughout the motor. Not good!!! My next question is how could this have happened. It seems to be a chunk like it was the rod that hit it but it could have been the counterbalance also. Has anybody ever had any clearance issues?
I will post pics later.
Please let me know how this could have happened that way it will not happen again.
Gusto
03-13-2003, 07:25 AM
This is the same thing that happened to my 416, the bottom of the sleeve disenagraded. Which inturn scattered the pieces all over the internals to the motor. The mechanic that has worked on my motor told me he went thru the motor and said I had no damage and had the sleeve replaced. To make the story short I missed the first race of the season because now I have a huge knocking noise....guess the mechanic didn't inspect what he took apart and put back together.
Originally posted by Gusto
This is the same thing that happened to my 416, the bottom of the sleeve disenagraded. Which inturn scattered the pieces all over the internals to the motor. The mechanic that has worked on my motor told me he went thru the motor and said I had no damage and had the sleeve replaced. To make the story short I missed the first race of the season because now I have a huge knocking noise....guess the mechanic didn't inspect what he took apart and put back together.
Did he say what hit the sleeve to shatter it?
Gusto
03-13-2003, 06:46 PM
I had a local guy bore the sleeve the first time, said he was familiar with boring bike cylinders and such. My guess is that the guy who bored the cylinder "over tempted" the sleeve and weakened it. So after alot of hot runs and cooling down the sleeve cracked and then a piece fell off...the rest is history. The only place that the sleeve broke was the skirt that hangs into the case. That is what bothered me the most? What I have now is a Ross 88.5mm piston, not a true 440, but this way I have alittle more sleeve left over.
Mine was def something hitting it. It took a perfect half moon out of the bottom of it. I will post picts, but I am almost positive that something hit it and broke it. I just don't know what!
Gusto
03-26-2003, 03:24 AM
FYI to recent knocking noise....after another case splint and hunting around for any internal damage, the knocking noise that I had/have comes from when I blew my motor, a piece of the sleeve scored a tooth on the crank. This gear runs with the counter balance. It was so minor that the only way to find it was by turning the crank laying inside a side case at a fairly reasonable rate. The Mech says that it is reliable So I am going to run it and see what happens. It still knocks a bits...I figure I will run it until it either blows again or I get my stroker kit:eek2:
lonestar330ex
04-01-2003, 02:37 PM
I had a problem lik this and i though it was the valvs and came to find out the scrws holding on the cam warped an that was knocking check thatout u might find something
lonestar330ex
04-01-2003, 02:37 PM
I had a problem lik this and i though it was the valvs and came to find out the scrws holding on the cam warped an that was knocking check thatout u might find something
Well I knew for sure that it wasn't in the top end so I tore down the whole motor and sure enough third gear on the counter shaft has 2 teeth busted out and the main shaft was bent. $158 later the quad is back to the great 416 that it is.
Well I knew for sure that it wasn't in the top end so I tore down the whole motor and sure enough third gear on the counter shaft has 2 teeth busted out and the main shaft was bent. $158 later the quad is back to the great 416 that it is.
Well you did a great job of identifying the problem (I totally agreed with your earlier post about the knock staying with the rpm and not the trany etc) but what has my curiosity is why the sleeve got cracked in the first place.
I have seen resleeves for the 440 etc that were fitted too tight to the cases and cracked during expansion, and even heard of pistons being installed backwards and the rod hitting the sleeve at very high rpms, but from what you have said this was not the problem or am I missing something.
I dont think I could be confident with that motor untill I found the source of the problem etc.
Originally posted by 440EX4me
Well you did a great job of identifying the problem (I totally agreed with your earlier post about the knock staying with the rpm and not the trany etc) but what has my curiosity is why the sleeve got cracked in the first place.
I have seen resleeves for the 440 etc that were fitted too tight to the cases and cracked during expansion, and even heard of pistons being installed backwards and the rod hitting the sleeve at very high rpms, but from what you have said this was not the problem or am I missing something.
I dont think I could be confident with that motor untill I found the source of the problem etc.
Well, I am not too confident with it but I can't see any probs with running it with the gash out of it. So I am gunna take the chance since I can't figure for the life of me what would have caused it. I have now had 6 mechanics with more than 20 years behind each of them look at it and not a single one could tell me what happened either so.... It went together like it is and I will go from there.
Chances are you will be OK but I think we agree theeres gonna allways be that thought in the back of your head etc.
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