How wide to go for flat track/TT

[2001400exrida]

Hey guys, i just got the CRJ lowering kit and i've got a set of wheels and tires on the way. I'm new to FT and TT. I was wondering how wide you guys go on the back axle. My lowering kit says it will widen the front by about 1.5 inches. So, what size spacers should i run on the rear axle to match it?

[patrickj75]

Most people run 50" width max. You don't really need to go any wider. If the track isn't tacky you'll want to narrow the rear a little if the rear end is loose.

[quad9]

i run ours at 48" but my rider is light weight, so i want the tires under her..
if the track goes dry slick i will pull her back to 50" and change the tires to a diff compound

[2001400exrida]

thanks for the replies. I went ahead and got some 3" spacers for the rear wheels. I got the cheapie alba ones that just go on the lugs, i'm not planning to run them for long, i plan to get an axle eventually, but i figured these would at least hold up for a couple races no?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180351696272?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[patrickj75]

You don't want to do a lot of jumping with wheel spacers. Stuff will bend eventually. THey should be good enough to start with though.

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Agreed, 50" wide

[brewster426]

Your best bet is to go with some plus 2 standard travel a arms and a adjustable axle. For about 4 or 500 you should be able to find good used stuff. A sway bar will help too. I like my rear end a little bit more narrow than the front end. 48.5 to 50 inches in the front and about the same in the rear. You might want to stay away from the lowering kit up front but for now it will be okay just to get your feet wet. A adjustable rear link would be a good thing to find too. You can find all these parts in the classifieds for a reasonable price.

[2001400exrida]

What's wrong with the front lowering kit? I figured they would hold up.

I have the front and rear CRJ lowering kit, i was told it works just fine for flat track. The cheap wheel spacers for the rear axle that i linked. And i got razr FT tires on rims that i'll be running. The sway bar will come later when i feel that i'm starting to get better.

thanks again guys.

[brewster426]

A buddy of mine had the front lowering kit and he said it wanted to slide the front end coming out of corners. They prob will hold up just fine and please don't take this as me bashing you for it. It's not like that. I would just rather make it right without using the lowering kit on the front. The razrs should be fine. Brad Riley won the pro class with maxis tires all the way around at Ashtabula. If I was were you I'd try it with and without the front lowering kit to see how I liked it. Setup is a big factor in TT racing.

[440ex. ehhh!!]

Originally posted by brewster426
Setup is a big factor in TT racing.

Remember this!

If you have to, keep notes on how it works, with all track conditions.
Change one thing at a time and then make more notes.

[2001400exrida]

thanks for the pointers guys! I'm going to try a couple races with the lowering setup and the widening spacers, if it's not working i'll keep my eyes out for some ST a arms.

My suspension is rebuilt 450r shocks by GT Thunder. Should i make any adjustments to them? They are setup for 180lb XC. Do you guys think i should loosen or tighten them after i put the lowering kit on or just leave them how they are and see how it rides? Also my rear shock is pretty soft as well, would it do any good to try and stiffen things up back there?

How low do you guys usually run the lowering linkage? I figured i would drop it only a couple inches and then see how I like that and then adjust from there.

big thanks to quad9 for hooking me up with the tires and wheels. Hope that motor treats ya right!

[quad9]

a STARTING POINT on the rear is with the rider on the quad, have the top of the chain close to level...

[2001400exrida]

so i want the chain to be pretty close to parallel with the ground when i'm on the quad? I'll start there.

[quad9]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
so i want the chain to be pretty close to parallel with the ground when i'm on the quad? I'll start there.

yes the top of the chain.. this is your starting point

[2001400exrida]

I got everything put on but the wheel spacers last night. Not sure if i'll even use them now, this thing seems so low to me!

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/2012-08-01_18-50-33_140.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/2012-08-01_18-50-21_201.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/2012-08-01_18-50-06_726.jpg

[quad9]

looks good.. just need a sway bar, then get it on the scales, and go run it

[2001400exrida]

got my eyes peeled for a cheap sway bar, them things aren't cheap if you have to buy them brand new.

[mx Eli]

try to get good rear weight transfer when coming out of corners. also not to much front end dive when entering corners. if you feel like the rear end wants to come around, pull the rear tires in, if the whole quad is doing a 4 wheel drift kind of thing jack your ride hieght up some

[2001400exrida]

my front end got super stiff when i put those lowering blocks in the a arms. Is it a good thing to have it stiff up front or should i soften up the shocks?

[quad9]

back the preload off and see if that helps.

[2001400exrida]

thanks quad9, so i do want the front to be somewhat soft or stiff? which works better on the track?

[quad9]

there realy is not a direct answer on that... you will know once you ride it.. everyone is different.... like i cant ride our 450r.. it is all set up for a 150lbs rider.... would be way to soft for me. but is perfect for her

[2001400exrida]

mine were setup for 180lb xc rider, but they fell stiff as a board now, lol. I will soften them up a bit to see if i can at least get a little suspension out of it, otherwise it'll be like a rigid front end, lol.

[quad9]

take some preload out and that will help ya

[mx Eli]

backing the preload will only help alittle. i had that same problem when ice racing my 04. only way to go is NO lowering kit in front otherwise it gets to hard. idk how your revalves are but wit stock i had to run everything on the softest setting just to get a small amount of weight transfer. I am also 150 pounds so its alittle differant.

rear I would try and get the ride height where you want it then soften up compression some and start about neutral for rebound, it really depends if you like to square off turns or round em out. if you got questions just ask ill try and help out as much as i can

[2001400exrida]

my revalves are much softer than the stock setup. I've got them almost preloaded almost all the way so i'm going to back that out and it should soften them up quite a bit. I hope it doesn't lower it too much more though, because it's already sitting low. I'll adjust the other settings too so i can get it a bit softer. I just wasnt' sure how soft i would want it for flat track. I definetely don't want it to be diving in the corners.

[mx Eli]

you want some weight transfer but not to much. if you get to much the front end will dive and your rear end will want to come around. keep the rear rebound pretty slow so the rear stays stuck to the ground

[2001400exrida]

thanks Eli.

I am right now at 45 inches wide in the front and 47.5 in the rear, that's with the lowering kit. Should i put some spacers on the front and rear? I'm nervous as to how the spacers will affect the handling on the front, but if they will help me on the track i'd purchase another set for the front, i have yet to put my rear spacers on, since the front is still so narrow.

[quad9]

if traction is an issue and you start pushing the front end it has to be narrowed up... but for some tracks you can run it wider.

[2001400exrida]

are you saying i'll be ok running the rear wider or the front? the rear is already a couple inches wider, so should i use the spacers on the front to get it closer or should i run them on the rear as planned and make the rear that much wider?

[quad9]

your realy going to have to ride it to know

[mx Eli]

you could either buy rims that are dished out or spacers, personally i would run either but to get started I would go with dished rims. have the rear wider then the front gives a weird feeling when entering a corner usually.

If I were you I'd take the front lowering kit and rear spacers off, get wider dished rims. keep the lowering link for the rear. I had my 04 setup like that for stock class on ice and it handled like it was on rails. for smaller tracks you could throw the front lowering kit on to get your center of gravity down but id try to stay away from it

[2001400exrida]

why should i take the lowering kit off? It sets me down lower and wider. If i was to put spacers or wider wheels on the front wouldn't i still have a pretty high ride height up front?

Just wondering out of curiousity, not trying to sound like a dick.

[chronicsmoke]

I'm guessing the way the lowering kit alters the geo. that it wouldn't handle all that great, but neither would spacers.. You should save up and get a cheap pair of used ST+2 arms..

You want the rear slightly narrower than the front also. If the rear end is wider it will push in the corners and you'll have to put more body english into your turns..

[2001400exrida]

thanks for the pointers chronic, but from my understanding it is just the opposite. If the rear is too narrow it will push and if it's too wide it will drift out easier. I could be wrong, but this is what i've been told.

[Scro]

A wider rearend will cause it to push in the corners.

[brewster426]

The best way to describe how the bike handles with the front being just a little wider than the rear is that it almost works like a triangle..if that makes any sense. With the front being wider when you turn, say you are turning left, it will unload the weight on the left rear tire and turn better. With the front being narrower than the rear it doesn't do that as easily, causing you to work harder to get the bike to turn how you need it to. The less you have to fight the bike to make it work the better off you will be. I hope this helps.

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by brewster426
The best way to describe how the bike handles with the front being just a little wider than the rear is that it almost works like a triangle..if that makes any sense. With the front being wider when you turn, say you are turning left, it will unload the weight on the left rear tire and turn better. With the front being narrower than the rear it doesn't do that as easily, causing you to work harder to get the bike to turn how you need it to. The less you have to fight the bike to make it work the better off you will be. I hope this helps.

That's the best I've seen it described so far, thanks for the analogy:macho

[2001400exrida]

great explination, thanks, i'm gonna feel it out this weekend and see how it rides. i was on the track yesterday for an hour or so and it was hanging through the corners pretty well, i put the rear spacers on today and i've got from hub spacers coming in the mail.

also, if i get some +2 ST a arms, how do i go about lowering it at that point? or is that not really needed? i feel like i want it to be low in front, but with my current suspension, having longer a arms won't lower it unless i get shorter shocks.

[mx Eli]

the st +2 a arms with no lowering kit is your best option for a cheap price.


brewster explained it very well but there limit, go too narrow on the rear end and the quad will push. 1/2-1 inch narrower in the back is normally what people run

for ice we'v gone as much as 3 inchs narrower in the back but thats another story

[2001400exrida]

so being too narrow on the rear will make it push, that's what i was thinking, but i've got mixed answers. Scro and chronic say that a wider rear end will make it push, lol which is it haha

[mx Eli]

both are correct, either way to much and the quad will push

[2001400exrida]

seems to ride good, i was washing the rear out pretty good but it might have been that i'm not use to running the tt tires yet. I had the rear at 49in. and the front was still under 46, so that may explain the overdrift as well.

I've got front spacers coming this week so once i get those on we'll see how it runs.

[quad9]

glad you got to try it out...

now lets go racing!!!

[2001400exrida]

neoga labor day is my first race with the setup, don't worry i'll get whooped, are you guys going? any advice on half mile gearing....i'm thinking about going to a 15t in front, it's all stock right now.

[quad9]

not sure on neoga...
what 1/2 mile you running?

[2001400exrida]

neoga says it's a half mile.

[quad9]

i did not think it was that big????
1/2 mile oval i run 15/36 with 59" tires

[2001400exrida]

The guy running the Neoga track says it's a large TT track and half mile gearing is close. apparently it's not oval?

Thanks for the pointer, i'll throw my 15T front sprocket on before that race..

[quad9]

not an oval... i guess that is why it dont look that long

[2001400exrida]

after several runs at the track, i decided to take your guys advice. I can't seem to get traction with the current setup, it wants to just slide all over. So, i took the front lowering kit off and just put on front spacers and it handles much better imo.

Currently i'm running spacers on the front hubs, the rear lowering linkage, and no spacers in the rear. The front and rear are almost exactly the same width. The front lowering kit had it nose diving too bad and i couldn't bring the rear down low enough to compensate. I need to find some shorter shocks, but in the meantime, which way do i adjust the spanner nuts to lower my ride height? I believe i need to bring them both all the way to the top to get it to ride as low as possible correct?

[chronicsmoke]

Yes, if you think about it if you moved them to the bottom, it would put more pressure on the spring making the shocks stiffer and higher rather than soft and lower.

[2001400exrida]

thanks chronic. Yeah it's a bit confusing, when i first thought about it i was thinking hey if i compress the shocks, thus making them tighter, it will shorten the spring since it would be compressing the spring more. But then i realized if it's compressed and tighter, the shock length is still the same and the ride will be stiffer therefore taller.

[quad9]

you need a sway bar, and then scale it.. 1 turn on the preload adjuster can realy change the weight

[2001400exrida]

ran Neoga today! it is an oil track, very fast! I had 1 tooth up in the front and was still running out of rpm. I got 7th in the main, which was about halfway through the pack so not too bad. The guys up front are still out of my league, i'm in need of some motor work now!

[2001400exrida]

running the duquoin steve nace racing short track this weekend, i'm gonna use the front lowering kit on this tiny track. Anybody else going?

[quad9]

my buddy scott will be there.. blue yfz #5

[2001400exrida]

i still can't even begin to hang with the top 5 or 6 guys, i'm hoping this short track will prove different. I think scott was at neoga, only blue yfz out there.

[quad9]

yes iam sure scott was there. he lives in southern IN