Fox Floats Vs. Elka Stage 5 Vs. P.E.P

[Hetrick300]

I need opinions on these and which one you think is the best. We don't want to cut any corners on our build and want the best stuff on it and these are our 3 choices. We will proboly run the JB LTR setup a-arms.

[Lquad71]

PEP. Everyone has their preferences and in my case I have never got any other shocks to work as good as PB1's and a dual rate zps rear. Actually nothing even close for me. And wayne or whoever you go through will give you advice on pretty much anything you ask about.

[etondaddy]

PEP......the best

[piejazz96]

fox floats, infinite adjustability and an all around amazing shock. If you need to change weight on the shocks, all you need is the pump that comes with the shock and either boost or lower the main chamber psi. EVOL chamber regulates bottoming out resistance and has dual speed compression (slow and high speed).

Can't say the podium is the best and would agree the PEP rear is better. Plus they're cheaper than the PB1s

There's a reason you see most everyone rides them. Along with better support from Fox.

Not saying the PEP PB1s aren't awesome shocks, I just think that Fox gives an amazing ride along with infinite adjustability. Just my 2 cents.

[Lynch01ex]

PEP all around if your not cutting corners. best shocks you can buy

[fmfhonda250r]

I have had fox for years and just switched to pep pb1's on my hondas with walsh ltr front ends and i can say the pb1 is by far the best shock i have ever rode. I have had fox,elka,exit,axis,works over the years and the pep is worth the extra money in my opinion. I got my through wayne and he has been great to work with. Pep would be my choice

[BlaineKaiser450]

PEP. I always ran Motowoz and has tremendous success when it comes to getting my quad to handle perfectly, but the PEPs are really the best you can buy

[TheLane]

I run fox floats and they are amazing, I dont have toooo much experience with the PB1's but i have heard great things.

Problem with the PB1's ( actually any spring shock) is that if you need a different setup for a different track you need to have more than 1 set of em. ( 1 setting will never be perfect for ALL terrain types)

IE: your setup and valving for Glen Helen would be COMPLETELY different for your setup for a track with massive jumps with slim taper landings, you would need much much heavier valving for the second track. ( Compression and rebound sometimes isnt enough to compensate)

With the floats you just pump more or less air into them. Done.

I imagine this is why most of the pros run them, and I do know for a fact a few of the pro race teams used to bring different sets of shocks and change them out depending on track conditions.

If the floats were more expensive than the PEP's would I say its really that big of a deal....no....but since they are cheaper and way more adjustable, its WAY worth it.
just my .02

[piejazz96]

Exactly, no one is saying the PEPs are better or worse than the floats, but like he said, the fox floats have an infinite adjustability and once you get close to where you like it, (not that hard as it sounds may i say) they soak up just about everything with their air shock.

[gorpracing]

We run Elkas on 3 of our bikes. I think it has to do with service. If you have a guy that can set you up at the track or can work with you closely at the track, thats for me is what make the best shock. Fox, Pep or Elkas they all are good. Who will service you and work with you the best.

[Lquad71]

Originally posted by TheLane
I run fox floats and they are amazing, I dont have toooo much experience with the PB1's but i have heard great things.

Problem with the PB1's ( actually any spring shock) is that if you need a different setup for a different track you need to have more than 1 set of em. ( 1 setting will never be perfect for ALL terrain types)

IE: your setup and valving for Glen Helen would be COMPLETELY different for your setup for a track with massive jumps with slim taper landings, you would need much much heavier valving for the second track. ( Compression and rebound sometimes isnt enough to compensate)

With the floats you just pump more or less air into them. Done.

I imagine this is why most of the pros run them, and I do know for a fact a few of the pro race teams used to bring different sets of shocks and change them out depending on track conditions.

If the floats were more expensive than the PEP's would I say its really that big of a deal....no....but since they are cheaper and way more adjustable, its WAY worth it.
just my .02

The only problem with having infinite adjustability is there are so many adjustments that it takes that much more time to dial them assuming you know how to dial them in. And its not that easy without years of experience. Wayne from PEP is at the track a lot and he will answer my phone call with questions about anything if he is on the other side of the world. The 8 click adjustments are actually my favorite thing about them because 1 click is noticeable and it makes adjusting and testing so much easier at a new track. As far as changing shocks, unless you are changing disciplines from tt to desert, you will be fine with the same shocks from track to track with some adjustment.

[piejazz96]

Originally posted by Lquad71
The only problem with having infinite adjustability is there are so many adjustments that it takes that much more time to dial them assuming you know how to dial them in. And its not that easy without years of experience. Wayne from PEP is at the track a lot and he will answer my phone call with questions about anything if he is on the other side of the world. The 8 click adjustments are actually my favorite thing about them because 1 click is noticeable and it makes adjusting and testing so much easier at a new track. As far as changing shocks, unless you are changing disciplines from tt to desert, you will be fine with the same shocks from track to track with some adjustment.

It's not as hard as it sounds honestly, you have your clicker just like the PEPs for you high speed compression. Low speed compression you really don't need to change. Main chamber is for ride height for the riders weight/skill level. EVOL chamber is for your bottoming resistance. So depending on skill level/how big the jumps are. And then there's your rebound. Depending on your preferences you just screw in the pump to the schrader valve and change it yourself. You don't have to send it out and pay good money to have your springs changed.

Also, have never ridden elkas, but heard they aren't valved well from the factory. After a rebuild I've HEARD they were a good shock.

You can also consider motowoz. They're supposed to be a good set of shocks.

[TheLane]

Originally posted by piejazz96
It's honestly not as hard as it sounds honestly, you have your clicker just like the PEPs for you high speed compression. Low speed compression you really don't need to change. Main chamber is for ride height for the riders weight/skill level. EVOL chamber is for your bottoming resistance. So depending on skill level/how big the jumps are. And then there's your rebound. Depending on your preferences you just screw in the pump to the schrader valve and change it yourself. You don't have to send it out and pay good money to have your springs changed.

Also, have never ridden elkas, but heard they aren't valved well from the factory. After a rebuild I've HEARD they were a good shock.

You can also consider motowoz. They're supposed to be a good set of shocks.

Agreed its cake. FOX gives your their recommended settings once you tell them your ride type and skill level. So if you go to a track that needs a stiffer suspension...pump up the air a bit, it aint rocket science :D

[Kovatch]

I'm not sure where exactly the OP is located, but I have never had the need or my friends (top A & Pro-Am riders) had the need to change the spring rates on their shocks ATV Nationals.

I can see if you run all sand tracks and then hit a dirt/clay track this could play a factor. Some do think otherwise, but unless you are at the top of the game, you won't need to. You can fine tune your shocks (compression, rebound, ride height) to dial them in for each track.

I love PEP shocks. I've ridden on a FOX set up and didn't like how much body roll it had in the corners. I may be lazy, but I don't like having to worry about checking air pressures at the races. Temperature changes cause pressure changes & for normal maintenance. One less thing to worry about as I have enough to think about in between motos.

Either way you will be happy with your choice. Consider a shop that builds the shocks and is at all the races. It helps to have them at the track. Either shock on JB LTR a-arms will be nasty (awesome).

P.S. I sent you a quick PM about JB LTR parts.

[piejazz96]

Originally posted by Kovatch
I'm not sure where exactly the OP is located, but I have never had the need or my friends (top A & Pro-Am riders) had the need to change the spring rates on their shocks ATV Nationals.

I can see if you run all sand tracks and then hit a dirt/clay track this could play a factor. Some do think otherwise, but unless you are at the top of the game, you won't need to. You can fine tune your shocks (compression, rebound, ride height) to dial them in for each track.

I love PEP shocks. I've ridden on a FOX set up and didn't like how much body roll it had in the corners. I may be lazy, but I don't like having to worry about checking air pressures at the races. Temperature changes cause pressure changes & for normal maintenance. One less thing to worry about as I have enough to think about in between motos.

Either way you will be happy with your choice. Consider a shop that builds the shocks and is at all the races. It helps to have them at the track. Either shock on JB LTR a-arms will be nasty (awesome).

P.S. I sent you a quick PM about JB LTR parts.

Thats what the Low Speed Compression is for... Pressures don't need to be checked constantly and i found that temps don't change unless there's a substantial temp decrease like from summer to winter.

[TheLane]

Originally posted by piejazz96
Thats what the Low Speed Compression is for... Pressures don't need to be checked constantly and i found that temps don't change unless there's a substantial temp decrease like from summer to winter.

X2 on this, people make them out to be much higher maintenence then they are.

Set it AnNNNNNNND forget it :D:devil:

[HondaRacing83]

The OPs name is Hetrick300 and Hetrick Racing is out of Oil City, Pa so I'm assuming thats where hes from.

[Hetrick300]

Originally posted by HondaRacing83
The OPs name is Hetrick300 and Hetrick Racing is out of Oil City, Pa so I'm assuming thats where hes from.
No California.

[2001400exrida]

fox floats are great for quick tuning, but you absolutely cannot get them as dialed in as you can with the pep's. The spring shocks when setup correctly will dial in more precisely than the fox floats. The floats have much more range yes, but they do not dial in as accurately.

Also, the floats really aren't that much easier to dial in. Once you have a set of peps dialed in you simply make small adjustements for certain conditions. The floats are no more than an extrememly overpriced air suspension. The floats do not require any type of custom valving or sprninging, so by default, they are a much more convenient suspension. When you have peps setup for your ride weight and conditions, they are so much more accurrate and precise. Yeah it costs big bucks to get them setup, but they ride much better than floats.

Now if all you ride are dunes, then yeah floats are great, but if you're an MX or an XC guy, you can't beat properly setup springs and valves on the pep shocks.

[Balaz_73*00]

Just out of curiousity, how many of the top 10 pro xc guys are using pb1s?

[piejazz96]

Originally posted by Balaz_73*00
Just out of curiousity, how many of the top 10 pro xc guys are using pb1s?

Don't really follow xc but Borich and Bithell, best out there in xc, both running floats. How about mx? Lets see, Wienen, Hetrick, Creamer, Natalie, Wimmer, Gibson and the list goes on.

2001400exrida - The PEPs are much more expensive then the floats and floats are much more precise where as I said previously you have high and low speed compression, plus your main and EVOL chambers. Finally you have your rebound.

Also, the xc and mx classes show that the TOP guys are all fast on floats. Not saying that there aren't fast guys on PEPs like Upperman for example, but the results/point standings show.

[Balaz_73*00]

That was my point, FOX!

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by piejazz96

2001400exrida - The PEPs are much more expensive then the floats and floats are much more precise where as I said previously you have high and low speed compression, plus your main and EVOL chambers. Finally you have your rebound.



evols are 1500 on ebay, so are the pb1's get your facts straight dude.

also the pros don't always use what's best, they use what's sponsored and fox is huge so they can afford to sponsor many many more racers.

a prime example of this is when Bill Ballance was running the FMF exhaust. Everybody on gods green earth knows that the fmf is the absolute worst performing pipe for the yfz's, yet he ran one....why? because he was sponsored. A sparks or a DASA will outperform that fmf anyday of the week. They probably rigged ballances FMF so it wasn't even the same pipe haha.

[RadekPL]

2001400exrida you're absolutely right. I had Fox Floats, Motowoz triple and quad rates (in 2 quads) and have ridden PEP Shocks in KTM. PEPs and Motowozes work really similar, it's hard to tell diffrence. Fox is hard to dial in - my bike was really floating in those turns and was hard to control on high speed small bumps. Motowoz is cheaper and has adjustable spring progression which is advantage, but PEP has bigger reservoirs. Motowoz doesn't fade at all, but I'm just comparing one to the other. If you don't want to spend extra money for PEP go with Motowoz. I had the ones with ZPS system and they were really plush, not worse than PB1's, but lighter.

[d3ktrix]

I sold my Motowoz for Fox DSC, and I have yet to get the Fox to feel anywhere as good as the motowoz on the choppy stuff like braking bumps.

They feel great on the large impacts like landing a jump or rollers, but for the fast stuff they just aren't the same. And that's with the HSC all the way soft. lol
Freshly serviced by SF also.

Ive never ridden PEPs that were setup for me so I can't compare them.

[piejazz96]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
evols are 1500 on ebay, so are the pb1's get your facts straight dude.

also the pros don't always use what's best, they use what's sponsored and fox is huge so they can afford to sponsor many many more racers.

a prime example of this is when Bill Ballance was running the FMF exhaust. Everybody on gods green earth knows that the fmf is the absolute worst performing pipe for the yfz's, yet he ran one....why? because he was sponsored. A sparks or a DASA will outperform that fmf anyday of the week. They probably rigged ballances FMF so it wasn't even the same pipe haha.

Ok, PEP pb1s from Baldwin Motorsports are priced $1,995 - http://www.baldwinmotorsports.com/products/pep-zps-pb-1-front-shocks

The Fox Float X EVOL Gen 2 (DSC) shocks from KB motorsports (my favorite place to get parts) is $1,225 brand spanking new - http://www.kbmotorsportsonline.com/chassis-components/shocks/fox-float-x-evols-dsc.html (There is a "make offer" box because they offer that for their most popular items. Just put in 1225 and it will accept) The shock is $1,500 from FOX

Anyway, isn't factory support not a good thing? Also, I knew you were going to say that, and here is my "rebuttal." Going back to 2008 I believe, all the way to present day, what did the atv national champions for those years ride? Each and every one of them rode Fox floats (Wimmer, Creamer, Natalie, Wienen) and not a single one rode PEP pb1s. Why do the majority of riders all the way from amateur ranks to pros ride fox floats?

d3ktrix - It seems like your main chamber pressure might be a little low. I'm about 140 lbs w/out gear and I run just a bit above 150 psi. So depending on your weight you wold probably want to be a bit higher. My EVOL is around 40 I believe.

After you do the main chamber, you should slow down the hsc. If you feel that you are bottoming out more after that, just bump up the EVOL chamber which regulates the bottoming resistance.

Also, when pumping up the shocks, take into account the air lost when taking the pump off and there will be a 10 - 20 psi loss.

Tell me if it helps!

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by piejazz96

d3ktrix - It seems like your main chamber pressure might be a little low. I'm about 140 lbs w/out gear and I run just a bit above 150 psi. So depending on your weight you wold probably want to be a bit higher. My EVOL is around 40 I believe.

After you do the main chamber, you should slow down the hsc. If you feel that you are bottoming out more after that, just bump up the EVOL chamber which regulates the bottoming resistance.

Also, when pumping up the shocks, take into account the air lost when taking the pump off and there will be a 10 - 20 psi loss.

Tell me if it helps!

Do u mean 150 in the evol and 40 in the main? Opposite wouldn't work so good :P

Right now I run 180 evol and 45 main.
I weigh 155lb w/o gear.
And have tried between 120 and 200PSI.
Anything softer and the shocks just go through too much travel on small bumps and lots of body roll/dive.
Never really had a problem with them bottoming out yet.

If I slow my HSC down it will just feel worse in the braking bumps. It makes the shock stiffer.

Im going to try going higher in PSI (over 200) and backing off the LSC to see if that helps with the choppy stuff. Give and take.

I heard the air that hisses out when u take the pump off is most the air from the line on the pump. If i take my pump off and put it back on it always reads with in a lb or two of before I took it off.

[piejazz96]

Ok let me start over, i accidentally read you had the hsc as hard as possible. Sorry for the mistakes. What you are running right now should be close as in what psi you should be running. I wouldn't change your evol because it seems you aren't bottoming out on jumps. Your hsc shouldn't be as slow as possible. If so i would take out about 5psi or so out of the main chamber and go a few clicks faster on the hsc.

I definitely wouldn't do the 200 psi in the evol.

If you feel you aren't doing too well on braking bumps after these changes, I would try slowing the lsc. Do you know how many clicks you're out on both?

It's all plug and play system. Change one thing at a time and if you feel something needs to be changed again, then change another one thing. Eventually, you will get to where you like and this is where I feel the shock surpasses many others.

The evol might change as much as 10psi or so and 3-5 psi sounds about right for the main. I was just cautioning you on that.

[d3ktrix]

If I drop PSI in the main my bike will sit too low and I'll get more body roll.

Right now my LSC is set in the middle. Forget how many clicks that is, but its half way between max slow and fast =)

Also I just read in the fox manual that the loss of PSI is from attaching the pump to the shock again. Its from the hose on the pump filling with air from the shock.

[piejazz96]

Originally posted by d3ktrix
If I drop PSI in the main my bike will sit too low and I'll get more body roll.

Right now my LSC is set in the middle. Forget how many clicks that is, but its half way between max slow and fast =)

Also I just read in the fox manual that the loss of PSI is from attaching the pump to the shock again. Its from the hose on the pump filling with air from the shock.

You're still at 0 clicks on the hsc?

straight from fox website:

- Harsh over small bumps but uses full travel

CAUSES - too much compression damping
SOLUTIONS - reduce compression damping; reduce preload

I'm just trying to troubleshoot and you shouldn't be at 0 clicks for hsc. I would try lowering evol chamber and go up at least 2 clicks on the hsc.

[d3ktrix]

Yeah still at 0 on the HSC.

And yup thats exactly why I'm at 0 HSC, cuz I followed that and kept lowering it :P
My ride height is at 7.5" right now at the foot pegs. and 1/4" higher at the rear a-arm mount. So i'd rather not drop the main chamber PSI at all and make it any lower. No doubt it would make the shock plusher, but with other negative affects.

I've tried as low as 120PSI and the shocks were still harsh on choppy stuff. Just rolled and dove extremely bad.

Yeah I agree 0 clicks doesn't seem right, but its the only thing so far that as helped me from to rip them off my bike :P

I switched from the motowoz to the fox for the first time in the middle of a riding day. So it was a good comparison.
As soon as I slapped the Fox on and rode across the dirt parking lot at the track and drove over water wash out ruts I could already feel how different they were. I had just rode over them with the motowoz a few minutes before and it much smoother.
I figured they just needed to adjusted, but apparently not :P

I haven't given up tuning them yet.


And I appreciate the help =)

[piejazz96]

From my own experience, I would not pay specific attention to the measurements of rider sag and I would set it more for rider comfort. Set it for where you feel more comfortable and where it will feel the best riding. The only way to solve this is to go out, ride, and change one thing at a time to where you like it. The manual does a good job of explaining what you should do.

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by d3ktrix
I have yet to get the Fox to feel anywhere as good as the motowoz on the choppy stuff like braking bumps.

I had the same problem as you with the Evol's I used to have, little stuff would just beat me to death. I tried every combination of settings under the sun (I tested WAY more with my Evol's then I ever have with any other shock) and I was never truely happy with them. The only time I was happy with them on little stuff they were plain horrible everywhere else. I feel they needed a revalve, since Fox just uses generic valving, and doesn't adjust valving per skill level/type of riding. My plan was to revalve them, but I just sold them and bought another set of Motowoz, I knew I would be happy with them.

I feel the Evol's are good shocks, but I could just never get them perfect, and I want perfection.

Doug

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by D Bergstrom
I had the same problem as you with the Evol's I used to have, little stuff would just beat me to death. I tried every combination of settings under the sun (I tested WAY more with my Evol's then I ever have with any other shock) and I was never truely happy with them. The only time I was happy with them on little stuff they were plain horrible everywhere else. I feel they needed a revalve, since Fox just uses generic valving, and doesn't adjust valving per skill level/type of riding. My plan was to revalve them, but I just sold them and bought another set of Motowoz, I knew I would be happy with them.

I feel the Evol's are good shocks, but I could just never get them perfect, and I want perfection.

Doug

haha uh oh looks like another set of motowoz is in my future.
Another guy i know went back to PEP after owning fox because he liked them better on the small stuff.

[TheLane]

Originally posted by d3ktrix
haha uh oh looks like another set of motowoz is in my future.
Another guy i know went back to PEP after owning fox because he liked them better on the small stuff.

I had fox set mine up for me...and they gave me the settings from the factory and i have never had any of the problems above....I dunno...i just love em :)

[Lquad71]

I have never heard of anyone complaining about PEP shocks that were setup for that specific rider. However, I have heard of quite a few cases where fox is not the shock to go with. Maybe that is a good way to gauge what shock you should go with? Another shock I have never heard anything bad about is motowoz but I have never ridden them.

[hrc450er]

Im pretty sure hsc is for big hits landings g outs etc and lsc is small stuff like roots. Also try slowing your rebound down to see if takes out small bump harshness out, or back off clicks on lsc

[TheLane]

Originally posted by hrc450er
Im pretty sure hsc is for big hits landings g outs etc and lsc is small stuff like roots. Also try slowing your rebound down to see if takes out small bump harshness out, or back off clicks on lsc

You have it backwards. high speed = quick response/ Low speed = body roll, jump landing, ect.

[piejazz96]

You both have it right

[89trx250r]

Here it is from the horses mouth.

The Low Speed Compression (LSC) adjuster primarily affects compression damping during slow suspension movements such as G-outs or smooth jump landings. It also affects wheel traction and the harshness or plushness of the vehicle (note that low-speed has nothing to do with the speed of the vehicle). Choose an LSC setting that gives good body control without causing excessive harshness or loss of traction.

The High Speed Compression (HSC) adjuster mainly affects compression damping during medium to fast suspension movements such as steep jump faces, harsh flat landings and aggressive whoops. The goal is to run as little high-speed compression damping as possible without bottoming.

Rebound damping controls the rate at which the shock returns after it has been compressed. The proper rebound setting is a personal preference, and changes with rider weight, riding style and conditions.

A rule of thumb is that rebound should be as fast as possible without kicking back or feeling bouncy. For slower rebound, turn the rebound adjuster knob clockwise. For faster rebound, turn the rebound adjuster knob counter-clockwise.

[TheLane]

Originally posted by piejazz96
You both have it right

no....im pretty sure what he said was wrong.

(no offense, but that information can get someone hurt.)


89trx sounded like he got that straight from either the PEP or the fox manual, and that is info you need. good job mang!

[d3ktrix]

haha this whole thread should be deleted, its going to confuse a lot of people.

[hrc450er]

I was as close as you were lane. But that came from fox's website that 89 posted. Lsc controls harshness . I had my fox's revalved because mine were harsh over small stuff and the rebound was too fast and most of the guys i know run between 180-220 on the evol but they are a or above class.

[TheLane]

Originally posted by hrc450er
I was as close as you were lane. But that came from fox's website that 89 posted. Lsc controls harshness . I had my fox's revalved because mine were harsh over small stuff and the rebound was too fast and most of the guys i know run between 180-220 on the evol but they are a or above class.


lol wth are you talking about...

Low Speed Compression is exactly that LOW SPEED it does NOT control anything that reacts quickly.

You stated in your original post that LSC is for "Small Stuff" which is VERY VERY wrong.

Harshness can mean 100000000 different things....tooo harsh on the landings ( LSC) ....too harsh through smal whoops ( HSC) too harsh throughout large rollers ( possible a mixture of both)

Posting information your unsure about just confuses people.

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by TheLane


Posting information your unsure about just confuses people.

This is something i could not agree more with, although sometimes offensive, i cannot help but call people out when misinformation is given. I'm glad to see there's other people that agree.

I did get some good info out of this thread, thanks for sharing the knowledge guys!