Best Woods Motor

[FL-R]

I'm building a new motor for next race season. It's a 89 bottom end, long rod, 38 a/s Carb, esr 5 pipe, I had a nice ported stock cylinder but it sucked sand. I'm looking at the Esr 310 kit, or the 310 powervalve kit. Which would be a better setup for the tight stuff.

[etccb]

The pv will have more top to bottom while the non pv will have more of a hit to it. I believe you would have less arm strain while dodding trees with the pv but I have mostly only ridden in wide open spaces. No woods in cali. The hit of a non pv is fun but you might wear yourself out faster without it.

[FL-R]

Have you had any problems with the new style PV esr motor. I want to stick to a 310 for low gas consumption.

[etccb]

No problems at all. Like any 2 stroke build do an air leak and coolant system test after assembly and you will be good to go.

[Motofool250r]

if your gonna splurge for the new cylinder go big enough to make a difference, get the 330 and get it ported for low/mid range.

people think the big bore are only for top end. well i can say i enjoy lugging our big bores that torque down low is beautiful when you dont want to work for it and dont want to spin out.

if you dont fully port the 310 (not trx7,trx9,or trx11) i mean a full port job.
then the stock cylinder wont be too much different then the 310cc un-ported

the hot setup is the +4mm hotrods, with 330cc cylinder makes a square motor. and gives u 344cc tons of low end more then enough top end.

and makes the best use of the money spent.

[RyanWsly]

Power Valve

[FL-R]

I'm just worried the 330 will be a fuel hog, our races are 1 1/2-2 hrs long. I don't want to run out of fuel. Already have the 4 gal tank.

[Motofool250r]

well think about this part then,

a 310 cylinder is really a 295cc setup stock stroke.

so unless its fully ported it could be slower then the fully ported oem cylinder.

i dont think the 330 would be a fuel hog but if your worried about it.

you'll notice you can go the same places with less throttle cause you have more torque down low.

but if you did a 310, fully ported with a 4mill crank you'd have a true 309/310 which is 15cc larger then normal standard 310 with 72mm stroke. with this setup you also dont need to bore the cases.

as a 330cc kit is actually 327cc 76mm bore 72mm stroke.

either way i would recommend that you not do the as cast porting if your wanting to race this cylinder. send it out for more extensive porting.

next thing is cr250 ignition if your wanting more rev's and hotter spark.
stay oem trx250r or cr250 ignition dont play with the aftermarket cdis

gap the spark plug tight around .024 for good spark on oem ignition.


also for a woods bike i agree powervalve is good option.

[FL-R]

Thanks for the info, I'm looking at the 330 PVC with a 4-5 mm.crank. I can get a+ 5 stroker crank for 150$ might go that route

[etccb]

Thats what I have. ESR 330pv with 5 mil and trx5 pipe. Case modifications will be required. The 4 mil is also a very good choise.

[Motofool250r]

if your going to go above the 4mm crank then go all the way to 6mm and get the free displacement as it cost the same for 5mm and 6mm.

i have a 6mm crank in my puma.

i suggested the 4mm cause it is the cheapest drop in solution. if money allows bigger go 6!

[number5]

FL-r you race ftr?

[bradenc19]

I have a 4mm bottom brand new crank. Would you buy a new 330 pv or used? What brand would you recomend? esr ,led,ct,lrd, want something reasonable an good price.

[FL-R]

Number 5, yes I race C. Last year was my first couple Hs races. I'll be at every race next season, hopefully. Look for a blues bike. Number 704. I'll probably run the 5 mil.

[Motofool250r]

Originally posted by bradenc19
I have a 4mm bottom brand new crank. Would you buy a new 330 pv or used? What brand would you recomend? esr ,led,ct,lrd, want something reasonable an good price.


i would buy new for sure.

i would buy a 330 or 350 sphynx and have it pro ported.

but now your talking about 2000$+

second idea would be order a non ported, non bored esr cylinder send direct to builder have it ported and bored to spec.

if that is too much port an oem cylinder with 4mm crank.

[troybilt]

I would buy an LED 300PV motor, that's what Matt Smiley runs on his XC race bike, and it pushes ~58hp... it is based on the Sphinx cylinder.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/TRXLEDcylleftsideview.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/RightsideLED250BSteveGragg.jpg

[etccb]

Originally posted by bradenc19
I have a 4mm bottom brand new crank. Would you buy a new 330 pv or used? What brand would you recomend? esr ,led,ct,lrd, want something reasonable an good price.

I have the esr 330pv and I am very happy with it.

[Motofool250r]

Originally posted by troybilt
I would buy an LED 300PV motor, that's what Matt Smiley runs on his XC race bike, and it pushes ~58hp... it is based on the Sphinx cylinder.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/TRXLEDcylleftsideview.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/RightsideLED250BSteveGragg.jpg

troy is this a true 300cc bike or a 310cc cylinder stock stroke?

[troybilt]

Originally posted by Motofool250r
troy is this a true 300cc bike or a 310cc cylinder stock stroke?

Yes stock stroke... Can get a turn key with matched pipe for around $2250, last I checked a year ago. It is a killer Woods setup.

[FL-R]

What does the topend kit run? $$$

[troybilt]

Sorry it was 55.8, not 58 hp.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/Screenshot2011-02-04at70437PM.png

The pricing is for the non-pv version. I'll see if I have a price sheet for the PV version.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/Screenshot2011-02-04at70420PM.png

[Motofool250r]

looking at the listing here http://www.cpindinc.com/pub/part_list?manufacturer=2
its either a 293cc with stock stroke 72mm bore.

or 71mm bore 76m stroke (+4)

both will be good motors for sure with porting.

[Motofool250r]

Originally posted by troybilt
Sorry it was 55.8, not 58 hp.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/Screenshot2011-02-04at70437PM.png

The pricing is for the non-pv version. I'll see if I have a price sheet for the PV version.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/Screenshot2011-02-04at70420PM.png

thats a great setup true 293cc no case boring required.

and ill say the prices are quite reasonable.

[troybilt]

I'm kicking myself for not going this route on my Elsinore build, my bike would be done by now with $$ in my pocket... :D

[Motofool250r]

i know the feeling,

[mx91a]

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l209/mx91a/r1.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l209/mx91a/r4.jpg

[mx91a]

That dyno and parts list above is for a 293cc OEM cylinder re-sleeve correct like what Bill Ballance ran ~2000? I don't think you can get a Sphinx cylinder kit for $600 and doesnt it need extensive welding and machining to get the port durations low enough for woods use thus higher labor costs too since it is a drag cylinder?

[troybilt]

Originally posted by mx91a
That dyno and parts list above is for a 293cc OEM cylinder re-sleeve correct like what Bill Ballance ran ~2000? I don't think you can get a Sphinx cylinder kit for $600 and doesnt it need extensive welding and machining to get the port durations low enough for woods use thus higher labor costs too since it is a drag cylinder?

The pricing is with the Sphinx cylinder, pictured, I still have the emails.... I talked to Arlen directly, that is his new kit to replace the Niks 300 kit he sold previously. Yes there is a new sleeve to change the port timings from the "as" cast port timings. That is all included in the pricelist I showed, what was not included was the PV. I can't find that pricelist for the PV... I would just call him and ask yourself.

[troybilt]

This pricing was from over a year ago, but I don't think it changed too much.

[troybilt]

Also it is 1400 for the cylinder kit no 600.

[mx91a]

Holy cow that is a smoking deal!

[troybilt]

Directly from the wizard himself... I was inquiring about an MX setup not XC, but there isn't too much difference...


Generally speaking the CP cylinders are designed more for Drag race and duning. On the MX track to much power, or too abrupt power is at least as bad as not enough power. The secret to my 250R success has always been, that I know how to give you the right type of power. I have been able to make more power and still hook it to the ground. Having said that I always have to modify the cylinders that I use. They are never right. In the case of the Sphinx cylinders I am using now I put sleeves in them to correct the transfer port angles and to give the proper exhaust port shapes and hieght. I also made my own power valves. The result it amazing.

[mx91a]

Originally posted by troybilt
Also it is 1400 for the cylinder kit no 600.

Ok that is more in line with what I would expect.

[troybilt]

I think 600 gets you the cylinder untouched, it takes another 800 to get it up to speed sort of speak. I still didn't think that was a bad deal either. 2200 gets you almost a turn key woods setup, port matched.... minus bottom end/clutch etc...

[rockingkfarms]

LED built 300 powervalve. These motors make plenty of useable power. Anything more is too much for the woods. Smoothness is the key...

[FL-R]

Does he have a number or site?

[FL-R]

Mx91, I love that bike.

[troybilt]

Here is his email:

arlan@ledperformanceengines.com

[FL-R]

Thanks, I have some good stock jugs, I just want more power. The last piston was a 68mm. And a good bottom end port job.

[rockingkfarms]

http://www.ledperformanceengines.com/