Anyone running E85?

[atvrider13]

I have been pondering trying e85. I have read about people converting over for cheaper than racegas and cooler running. I am curious as to what everyone has for jetting with their set up? Please be decriptive. List pilot size , needle size and position, and mainjet and a lil bit of your mods. Just so i get an idea of what everyone is runnig before i start.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

15% gas
85% ethanol, but its your engine & you can do what you want with it.

Any time your thinking about gas or another type of fuel, study that fuel your thinking about using first & then go from there.
Neil

[86Rrider]

Not to high-jack the thread, but I've done a little research on ethanol in fuels and there seems to be as much "it's all good" info as there is "you will destroy your engine" info out there.

Here in Michigan, they have been blending ethanol into gasoline since the late 80's. My 1977 GMC pick-up ran on 89 octane leaded regular fuel until it was no longer available. The replacement 89 octane un-leaded fuel was 87 octane, blended with ethanol (up to 10%) to boost the octane to 89. So, I've been burning blended fuel for several years now with no problem.

Now, since I got my 250R (1996) I've run premium fuel in it with the Honda HP2 synthetic oil. All this time, again here in Michigan, the gas pumps have always been labled that the fuel can contain up to 10% ethanol for all grades. I have not found any ethanol related issues with my quad.

Go back last year, I believe that possibly the 87 octane fuel was not blended with very much ethanol up until then. For starting last year, I have had problems with both my chain saw and string trimmer having the carburetors getting plugged-up with a white substance. Since I have the equipment available to me at work, I got my materials specialist to figure out what this was. Well it was plastic from the fuel tanks. The ethanol is etching the plastic on the inside of the tanks and depositing it in the carbs.

So, what I am wondering is; Neil and the other engine builders on this site- could you point me at the information that you know of or could you share it here as to what ethanol can end up doing to our 250R engines? Again, point me at the thread if this has been discussed already and I just did not search for it correctly

[Motofool250r]

e85 is doing good in the performance car realm but they are changing the fuel systems to a alcohol tolerant setup lines fittings gaskets injectors etc.

so if you run new fuel lines that handle alcohol get the carb setup like an alcohol carb, tune like an alcohol bike you'll be right in the ball park.

your gonna use more fuel your gonna need more timing and more advance on the ignition curve and more compression to take advantage of the fuel.

it can be done pure alcohol is very common for the drag guys cause its so cheap to buy.

[89trx250r]

The short sweet answer is the money it will cost you to make your quad run E85 and the potential for it destroying your motor asap are rather high...So I guess if you are a betting man then go for it but if you are like the rest of us in this community...We try to AVOID ETHANOL ENTIRELY.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

86Rrider,
I've got no threads to point you to, but from my readings, the 10% ethanol gas in the automotive world, will cause those engines to run 4.5% leaner because of the ethanol.

Ok, now that in turn when you think about it, most every car or truck is computer controled & if the computer sees the engine running 4.5% leaner, then it is going to richen it up, so in turn you'll burn more fuel from the computer trying to get past that lean state.

In the small engine world, oh my God it is creating havoc.
Just like what you have already found with your saw & trimmer, not only does it attack the plastic tanks, but the aluminum carb body, the diphrams in the carb, their gaskets & rubber fuel hoses.
I get a mag every month, from the mower & small engine industry, & about 40% of that mag is about this ethanol fuels & the problems it is creating.
You buy a new chain saw, string trimmer or leaf blower & a good % of the mowers sold today, forget about any warranty after that first tank of gas you pour in, because it is on you for using the ethanol laced gas.

I would expect in the future, that the small engine world would start producing stuff compatible with the ethanol gas, but I would also expect the price of anything to be through the roof, as if its not already.

Back in the late 70s, Briggs & Stratton had already perfected a fuel injected push mower type engine, but at that time, you could pick up a 20~22" push mower from Roses or K mart for around 100 bucks & NO ethanol laced gas, so they didnt have a market for a $400.00 dollar push mower that could somewhat use this gas of today.
Now days, your lucky to find just a plain mower for less than $200.00.
Neil

[86Rrider]

Again, atvrider13 sorry for high-jacking the thread, but like I said in my first post, this information is somewhat confusing and Neil seems to have done more homework on it.

Neil- thank you for the reply. Now, another question: I purchased a new push-mower last year and the sales guy at Sears was really pushing me to buy Sta-bil and said that I should run that in every tank of fuel. Will Sta-bil counter-act the affect of the ethanol or kind of band-aid it?

Also, I have seen many adds in magazines latley as well as the local Tractor Supply store is now carrying this enzime fuel additive. Do you know anything about this stuff? Are any of these additives worth using in the fuel we put in our quads?

[Thornfold]

used sta-bil in weed wacker with no bads. my bros yz125 ran e85 for 2 seasons

[LT250RMan]

Originally posted by 89trx250r
We try to AVOID ETHANOL ENTIRELY.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Originally posted by 86Rrider
Again, atvrider13 sorry for high-jacking the thread, but like I said in my first post, this information is somewhat confusing and Neil seems to have done more homework on it.

Neil- thank you for the reply. Now, another question: I purchased a new push-mower last year and the sales guy at Sears was really pushing me to buy Sta-bil and said that I should run that in every tank of fuel. Will Sta-bil counter-act the affect of the ethanol or kind of band-aid it?

Also, I have seen many adds in magazines latley as well as the local Tractor Supply store is now carrying this enzime fuel additive. Do you know anything about this stuff? Are any of these additives worth using in the fuel we put in our quads?

Any additive to counter the affects of the ethanol, would be good to use.
If you used the Sta-Bil, get the one of boat use.
I use either Sta-Bil or the Lucas fuel treatment in the cars & trucks.
In the motorhome, like if it is going to sit a few weeks, I'll dump in several oz of the Lucas fuel treatment while filling the tank just to counter the ethanol sitting in the tank.
My ol Ford pickup, if I dont use the Lucas in it, that fool thing dont half want to run, so I keep a Qt of the treatment on hand all the time.

If the man at Sears recommended you use the Sta-Bil in that mower, knowing small engines like I do, I would do like he says.
Neil

[rablack21]

86Rrider,

Like Neil mentioned, If you have to use gas with ethanol in it, use a fuel additive that prevents phase separation (http://fuelschool.blogspot.com/2009/02/phase-separation-in-ethanol-blended.html) like the Sta-bil that was mentioned.

I personally use Amsoil Quickshot (http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/aqs.aspx) with every tank of fuel that goes in my quad, grass trimmer, leaf blower, and chain saw just in case the gas stations are not being honest about being ethanol free.

That and it keeps the carb clean as well.

[86Rrider]

OK, so additives that prevent phase sepparation, good. Like I said, pretty much my only option for ethanol-free fuel would be to buy VP racing fuel. Problem with that is the type of lond-distance trail ridding I do would still put me in the situation needing to run pump gas anyway. So, I'll carry fuel additive along with my 2-stroke oil.

Now, getting back to atvrider13 original question; if you set up and run E85, but don't let it sit in your quad's fuel tank in between rides, you use a additive in it, would it be all that damaging to the engine to run it? Again, assuming that you are jetted correctly for it.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Just so everybody knows, all service stations are not mandated to have a sticking on the pump, saying that pump has ethanol laced gas unless it is over 10% added.
You may go to a station & no sticker on the pump stating that it will have ethanol gas & be fooled thinking your getting pure gas, but your getting 10% mix.

Our beloved government, has released the use of E15 to gas & oil companys, but the stations will need to change over to different gas pumps before they can offer it.

Having to change over to pumps that can handle the tanted gas, should raise a red flag to someone, but heck, how can you tell someone dumber than a wet stick it is a problem.
Neil