Do you think its a stator problem?

[Grande Huevos]

Hey guys I need some advice/opinions. What I have is a ESR 330, 9 port job, Hot rods crank stock stroke, V-force 2s, ESR 5 pipe, 38 a/s carb, K&N with airbox no lid, running VP 110, New coil not oem, and what I believe is an oem stator that looks brand new but was already in the motor. Now everything is still fresh, I built everything not to long ago and dont get alot of chances to ride it maybe 20 hrs since built. I had tuned the bike and had it running GREAT without a miss anywhere when the outside temp was in the mid 50s to 60 tops and ran awesome until I put it away. I took it out again about 2 weeks later with fresh plug, clean filter, and fresh fuel and the temp was about 75 to 80 so I dropped my main down 1 size. Keep in mind this is the only thing that changed! When I got it all warmed up it ran great at all throttle positions in every gear execpt for at WOT in all gears. It was cutting out sputtering bad and will every now and then seem to clear out if I hold it open, so I dropped the main another size and the problem didnt seem to get any better. I dropped it 1 more size and nothing! Since then Ive taken the carb apart completely cleaned it with carb choke cleaner and air, another new plug (gapped correctly), checked my ground, dropped my clip position from 2nd from top to 3rd and it started running even worse everywhere from 1/4 - WOT so I raised it back up. The motor now runs good until I hit WOT and it cuts out horribly its not even fun!!! I couldnt even pull the front end with my Girl on the back:( Ive ohmed everything out according to the "sticky" thread with a nice digital ideal meter and it all specs out so Im getting very discouraged!!! Does this sound like stator symptoms? Or some sort of electrical? Please help me figure this out Guys!!! Thanks for reading and for any comments.

[fearlessfred]

in past years I have seen these symptoms cured with a new stater on two different bikes my own and a freinds.my freind leaned his out far enough that he burnt a hole in the piston

[sand_blaster]

Mine was doing the exact same thing as yours, but difference is mine finally lost spark & wont start at the moment. Jetting didn't change the way it ran & it left me stranded a few times lol. So I think a cr ignition well be ordered from esr.

[Grande Huevos]

Yeah I was thinking that it was prob a stator issue but was unsure since it ohms out. I did a search on stator problems and it looks like its not uncommon for them to read right but still be bad. As much as id like to have a cr ignition unless i find a great deal on one I will most likely just get a new stator of some sort for the simple fact that they are about 1/4 the price.

[red88r]

I got a complete ignition years ago from a buddy that had a problem with his 86. So he bought a cr ignition. I put it on my quad I was building and everything tested out. What I found alot times is if they test good they still could be bad. But if they test bad they usually are. I bought a new stator and it's still running today.

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by sand_blaster
Mine was doing the exact same thing as yours, but difference is mine finally lost spark & wont start at the moment. Jetting didn't change the way it ran & it left me stranded a few times lol. So I think a cr ignition well be ordered from esr.

Thats exactly what happened to mine, started one weekend, go out 7 days later: no spark..

I bought the CR ignition, just need the plate to bolt it on and I should be running again. Electrical issues are the worst.. its like chasing invisible dragons

[C-LEIGH RACING]

You stated you gaped the spark plug correctly, was it set at what the book calls for or 0.020

9 out of the 10 250Rs that have ignition problem, those problems are from the wiring harness & those connectors not making good connection.
They may look good, but think how old they are.
If you set the plug gap at what the book calls for, it is harder for that old ignition to produce a spark & will sometimes cause a flutter in the upper rpm ranges.

Set the plug gap at 0.020 & see if that changes how the engine runs.
You more than likely, will need to go back to the jets you had in the carb to begin with, just to be sure you dont have it to lean from thinking you had a jetting problem.
Neil

[Grande Huevos]

Originally posted by C-LEIGH RACING
You stated you gaped the spark plug correctly, was it set at what the book calls for or 0.020

9 out of the 10 250Rs that have ignition problem, those problems are from the wiring harness & those connectors not making good connection.
They may look good, but think how old they are.
If you set the plug gap at what the book calls for, it is harder for that old ignition to produce a spark & will sometimes cause a flutter in the upper rpm ranges.

Set the plug gap at 0.020 & see if that changes how the engine runs.
You more than likely, will need to go back to the jets you had in the carb to begin with, just to be sure you dont have it to lean from thinking you had a jetting problem.
Neil
yes I had it gapped at .020 with a brand new coil and I went through the entire harness and replaced any connectors with new ones and made sure i crimped them nice a tight. I also stripped the wires out so they were fresh clean non corroded wires for good connection. And yes I will def. richen my jetting up and start that process over with the new stator. I will update this thread when I get it fixed and let everyone know what happens. Thanks again to everybody for the input

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by C-LEIGH RACING
You stated you gaped the spark plug correctly, was it set at what the book calls for or 0.020

9 out of the 10 250Rs that have ignition problem, those problems are from the wiring harness & those connectors not making good connection.
They may look good, but think how old they are.
If you set the plug gap at what the book calls for, it is harder for that old ignition to produce a spark & will sometimes cause a flutter in the upper rpm ranges.

Set the plug gap at 0.020 & see if that changes how the engine runs.
You more than likely, will need to go back to the jets you had in the carb to begin with, just to be sure you dont have it to lean from thinking you had a jetting problem.
Neil Neil im not sure if you have acces to a DLRO,
it will isolate any stator or harness problem in seconds, and one of the best ways to positivly check if a stator is failing

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
Neil im not sure if you have acces to a DLRO,
it will isolate any stator or harness problem in seconds, and one of the best ways to positivly check if a stator is failing

Ok, I'm old, so you'll have to explain DLRO, cause I dont know what that is.
Thanks, Neil

[wilkin250r]

I've seen a similar issue come from the flywheel as well, if the magnets inside get broken apart.

The stock ignition drops voltage in the upper RPM range, the spark gets weaker and weaker. Cracked and broken magnets could be enough to run at low revs, but might be severe enough to cross the line from weak into non-functional in the upper RPMS.

[Motofool250r]

stators die, flywheels wear out, and coils do funky things also.

this is why i have a brand new cr250 ignition in the tool box apart from the two on the bikes for testing purposes

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by C-LEIGH RACING
Ok, I'm old, so you'll have to explain DLRO, cause I dont know what that is.
Thanks, Neil its a digital low Resistance ohm meter,it can pick up the smallest resistance in any wire, connection, or winding,

if you have any electrical Friends or family try borrowing one,, (too expensive to buy)

i have one at my work, and used it at home to test a couple stators in question, and found higher then expected resistance, my fluke DMM(digital multi meter) showed normal resistance, showing a stator to be good, but with the DLRO it actually failed showing the stator to be failing.

worked great at finding a faulty stator that a typical meter couldn't find

[wilkin250r]

A DRLO is basically a really sensitive and accurate multimeter, and it only measures resistance, not voltage. REALLY EXPENSIVE. I've never used one, I've got access to some better equipment.

It would be really good for testing wire harnesses because you would actually be able to find bad connections with it, and also good for testing the readings that are really low like the primary side of the ignition coil, the plug wire, and the lighting coils.

The ignition portion of the stator has much higher resistances values that can be read easily and accurately with a normal multimeter.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
A DRLO is basically a really sensitive and accurate multimeter, and it only measures resistance, not voltage. REALLY EXPENSIVE. I've never used one, I've got access to some better equipment.

It would be really good for testing wire harnesses because you would actually be able to find bad connections with it, and also good for testing the readings that are really low like the primary side of the ignition coil, the plug wire, and the lighting coils.

The ignition portion of the stator has much higher resistances values that can be read easily and accurately with a normal multimeter. so your saying the high resistance I got on the high side may actually be a good reading?

Eric what equipment or testers would be better to test a questionable stator? we have just about every tester made

[wilkin250r]

It's a rather specialized piece of equipment made for testing inductors and and transformers, so you're not likely to find it in a normal lab, you'll probably only find something like this in a lab dedicated to magnetics. It's basically an LCR meter, but with the precision of a DLRO for not only resistance, but inductance, capacitance, and high-frequency impedance. It's about a $15K machine.

Transformers are just basically coils of wire on some type of core material, so a machine made to test transformers with a high degree of precision and accuracy also works well on stators.

It's a Wayne-Kerr 3260B

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
It's a rather specialized piece of equipment made for testing inductors and and transformers, so you're not likely to find it in a normal lab, you'll probably only find something like this in a lab dedicated to magnetics. It's basically an LCR meter, but with the precision of a DLRO for not only resistance, but inductance, capacitance, and high-frequency impedance. It's about a $15K machine.

Transformers are just basically coils of wire on some type of core material, so a machine made to test transformers with a high degree of precision and accuracy also works well on stators.

It's a Wayne-Kerr 3260B ill have to look, we must have something similar to test our turbine generator

[Darthgeese]

mine was having the same problem. Swaped the whole ignition system(besides harness) and it was still bad. Happend to find a sickkkk deal on a 01 cr ignition($150 ;]) and put that sucker on. Still having the same problems. No clue what the problem is. I hope you figure out what the problem is, maybe it will help me aswell. So when i go on leave from the military i can get my baby girl out again and go destroy some fools! Good luck

[Motofool250r]

so back to the original posters problems,

have you done a leak down test on the bike?

you sure the spark plug cap is making good connection and there is not corrosion where the wire meets the cap?

have you tried a different coil?

what does the plug look like?

[Grande Huevos]

Ok guys so I finally got some time to put my new stator on and I couldnt get it to start at all. So we pulled the side cover off again thinking we had to of installed somthing wrong? After playing with it I realized that when i would turn my flywheel every couple of rotations it would lock up and I couldnt budge it. I turned it the opposite way and it would free up and spin a few rotations then bam lock up again. So im pissed at this point and start pulling stuff apart thinking maybe somthing broke in my tranny and its binding a gear up? Well nothing so I pull cylinder off and find that the top of my piston and dome are all pitted up like somthing had passed through, but what? After further inspection it turns out one of my new V force 2 reeds had broken a chunk off and smashed around, which makes perfect sense now!! It started with a crack and was making it cut out so I started chasing a jetting issue. Then it progressivley got worse making me think it was a stator problem until finally it broke! The cylinder walls still look amazing and the side of the piston and the rings still look good and the crank seems to be fine as well, but I can see that somthing is down in the crank case which Im assuming is whats locking it up but I couldnt tell exactly what it was do to lighting and it would not stick to a magnet. So my one question is..... IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A PIECE OF REED TO GET SUCKED INTO THE CRANK CASE?? because if its not then I for sure have another problem in the lower end. Im going to play with it some more tomorrow and see if I cant get the mystery piece out of the crank and see if that doesnt stop the locking up issue.

[Motofool250r]

yes a reed can get sucked into the crank case and cause lots of issues. you should open the cases and clean it all out and see how bad the wrist pin and rod bearings are.

[Grande Huevos]

Originally posted by Grande Huevos
So my one question is..... IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A PIECE OF REED TO GET SUCKED INTO THE CRANK CASE?? because if its not then I for sure have another problem in the lower end. Im going to play with it some more tomorrow and see if I cant get the mystery piece out of the crank and see if that doesnt stop the locking up issue. [/B]


Well I worked on the bike today and I was able to get the chunks out of the crank case without splitting it. But unfortunatly for me those chunks came from my crank so I will be splitting and rebuilding anyways!!! Im not sure what you would call it but its the part that looks almost like a spacer where the bottom rod bearing is, there is one on both sides of the rod and one broke into 3 pieces and took a chunk off in another spot. My piston skirt was cracked in the mess of things as well. So im looking at a new crank, new piston, new dome, and new reeds as of right now and hopfully thats it! Its a real bummer considering I just finished building this motor inside and out and the ONE THING I never replaced was the CRANK:mad I didnt replace it because it appeared to be in good condition, had no play and showed no negative signs.

[Motofool250r]

are you talking about the crank tins came apart or is there a set of spacer washers between the rod and the crank lobes?

hopefully the cases are good still when you get it apart but look closely.

the new Hot rod cranks seem to be doing well, you can do some searching on the other 250r forum about a recent thread on leaving crank tins in or out.

might as well get a +4 crank and touch up the port timing to match for a power upgrade.