440ex Smoking Need Help

[Nate105]

hey,
I have a 440ex that i did over the winter I got it running real good and then I went and replaced my timing chain and changed the oil the other day and when I got it together I started it and everthing was great and the next day I started it up and I noticed that it had a little blue smoke coming out of the exhaust and then later I noticed and blew a little blue smoke at high rpms and on the decel only if i went over half throttle anything aroung 1/4 throttle I don't see any blue smoke. but now the only thing I did different from the time I did the timing chain and got it running again was change the oil I used a differnt brand oil this time I was running 10-40 honda oil and i changed to valvoline 10-40. I was kinda of thinking or hoping its the different oil. please help I only have about 5 tanks of gas on this motor thanks
Nate

[chevymanrick]

Did u re-jet after you did the 440 kit?

[dxcody]

Hate to tell you man, but if its 10w40 that you were running, brand really shouldnt matter.

BUT about the only way to know if it was due to the oil would be to drain it and go back to GN4. (honda oil) Which i dont think it is BTW.

I ran valvoline a few times in my previous quads and never had any troubles. Whats reccomended around this site, and many others is rotella. No one ever has a bad thing to say about Rotella oil. Its amazing in small engines. (And big for that matter, the truckers that run for us at work say they use it in their semi's)

Did you remember to properly set the ring gaps?

Ususally if your puffin out blue smoke on decel its the exhaust valve seals and usually if your puffing blue smoke on acceleration its the rings. (Someone feel free to correct me if im wrong, but i think thats how it goes.)

[CJM]

TOO LEAN! Im sure even tho you live in a different area with different temps and elevation, your jetting would obviously be different than mine. But theres now way a 440 kit is running right on a 150 main on a 450r carb.

Forget the oil brand or type, that isnt your issue. You cooked your topend man. Im willing to bet it needs rings. Also namura pistons are absolute junk, Ive seen more than a few melt.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Mine smoked bad once cuz i had a exhaust valve not opening fixed that and it don't smoke much anymore.

[Thumpin440ex]

I think CJM mite be on to something here. Hmmm


John

[01boneless]

u said u put a cam chain in to get it running?? if u removed the cylinder u should have put new rings and honed it,and like cjm said namura is junk u prolley need rings and a hone,but if u never jetted its prolley burnt up

[JOHNDOE83]

FYI, my 440 uses a 220 main jet with a 450r carb

[Nate105]

I'm not jetted to lean with the 150 main in it still has black smoke puffing out of the exhaust and every time I pulled the plug out its black. I didn't pull the top end off to change the timing chain just the vavle cover and the clutch cover. it ran fine no smoking when I ran it into the garage to do the timing chain. this motor is still pretty new only have about 5 tanks of gas ran threw it. It has new valve seals and when I put it togther and the ring gap was good. I don't get it no smoking when I was running it before I did the timing chain and now 2 hours after i got the chain in took it for a rip and the next day go out and start it and blue smoke:confused:

[01boneless]

sorry to say but blue smoke is oil...and it has to be lean with a 150 and the reason your plug is black is oil blow by probley
a set up like yours should have atleast a 170 main i would think

[CJM]

Trust me, your lean. A stock EX has a 148 in it, 1 a 150 is the next size up. Theres no way it was too rich, impossible even if you live at 7000ft above seal level.

Ride around for a good few hours, check your oil-bet its not full.

[01boneless]

^ this! better yet pull your exhaust and look in the ports bet there wet with oil....

[dxcody]

Originally posted by 01boneless
^ this! better yet pull your exhaust and look in the ports bet there wet with oil....

I was getting ready to say that.

[Nate105]

I started the main jet at 180 and it ran like crap it would sputter and blow black smoke I always had to ease the throttle up otherwise it wouldn't rev up. the stock 450r carb has a 118 main jet in it and I have a 150 main thats a good size jump from stock and for the plug it was always black even before I was burning oil.

[01boneless]

so u are loseing oil.....time for a piston and rings man

[CJM]

Originally posted by Nate105
I started the main jet at 180 and it ran like crap it would sputter and blow black smoke I always had to ease the throttle up otherwise it wouldn't rev up. the stock 450r carb has a 118 main jet in it and I have a 150 main thats a good size jump from stock and for the plug it was always black even before I was burning oil.

Dude, the 450r carb is setup for a totally different motor that will take different jetting. You cant compare its jetting to a 400ex.

If the plugs black all the time something isnt right. If it was too rich it would be black and stink of gas, the exhaust would stink of gas as well.

Im only going to say this once: Your bike smokes, its not black its blue smoke you say, blue smoke is oil. Your running a jet thats barely large enough for a stock EX even if your using an R carb. Test your compression, I bet its very low.

[dxcody]

I know exactly how you feel right now Nate,

You wanted to Post a thread and get a quick response giving you an easy fix after just building your motor, but Blue smoke is no joke.

If you have blue smoke it instantly means some type of motor work is needed, and your going to have to spend cash to fix it.

But if you take it apart now, and find the problem you may not have to replace everything again.

Trust me, take it from someone who has been there, CJM, Boneless, and many other members can tell you, i have broke about everything on a 400ex possible.

If you notice something isnt right, its BEST to get it fixed now.

[400exjoker]

if hes using dynojets a 150 is a Kehein 165 right? not saying 165 is big enough for a 440 just wandering

[Nate105]

i'm not doubting you guys I just don't get how I could go from running good then to crap in a total of 10 minutes of run time. for the jetting I guess i'm not wording it right with the jetting I have. you can see black and blue smoke come out and just before it start blowing blue it was just black smoke with the jetting I have. when I would change the jets from 180 down to what I'm at now I would run it for awhile it would run like crap and then take the air box top off and it would get a little better so i would go down one jet size at a time and this is were I got good performance. but I will do a compression test tommmorrow and see and let you guys know. sorry if I pissed anyone off that not what I was try to do.

[AtvKid4Eva]

yes, you are definetly way to lean. Here in OH i just put a 450r carb on my buddies 416 and we are running a 185 main and it runs great. Just get a 416 wiseco piston kit. They arent too expensive.

[AtvKid4Eva]

a 185 main, 52 pilot, clip on the third position and A/F about 2.5 turns out should run good on a 400ex.

[TheAwesomehonda]

So how is it running does it still have power?

[01boneless]

Originally posted by Nate105
I just don't get how I could go from running good then to crap in a total of 10 minutes of run time. .

namura......

[CJM]

Originally posted by 01boneless
namura......

Exactly.

Friend of mine did his shee with a set of them and didnt even get 4 hours out of them. Race gas or not, they literally melted. No other piston have I seen do this ever.

[Nate105]

ok this is what I got today checked compression 155 cold and 140 warmed checked the ports no oil in the ports. last time I rode it I had good power yet. Now could there be something wrong with my carb way i'm running that size main jet. Because if i go to any of those numbers you guys are talking about it runs like total crap. like I said before with the 150 main it still puffs out black smoke?
Nate

[JOHNDOE83]

I think your issues are beyond jetting at this point:ermm:

[01boneless]

hmm are you sure compression is that high? are u using dyno jets or kehin?

[CJM]

Well that at least rules out the piston, which is a good thing. However blue smoke is still oil. you check the oil after all these rides, it still full?

Boneless is right, you using dynojunk or keihin jets?

[Nate105]

I checked the oil after I did the warm compression test yesterday and it said it was full but the time before that it said I was a little low and I didn't add any. so I don't know what happened to say it was lowor to say it was full I checked it twice just to make sure I read it right. but I'm run keihin jets and I checked compression twice cold and warm both times were the same for cold and warm

[TheAwesomehonda]

Well to get a correct reading for the oil level 1. start it and let it idle for atleast a few minute don't rev it 2. shut it off and pull out the dip stick clean it off 3. stick it back in without screwing in at all then pull it out and it needs to be between the two mark. But you probobly already know that haha

[01boneless]

Originally posted by Nate105
I checked the oil after I did the warm compression test yesterday and it said it was full but the time before that it said I was a little low and I didn't add any. so I don't know what happened to say it was lowor to say it was full I checked it twice just to make sure I read it right. but I'm run keihin jets and I checked compression twice cold and warm both times were the same for cold and warm

i wish i could help man but idk anything else to tell you...is it a ported head?

[Nate105]

yea its a ported head anybody have any ideas what it could be?

[01boneless]

Originally posted by Nate105
yea its a ported head anybody have any ideas what it could be?
im thinking thats your problem right there. if you had a good enough port job done it reduces vaccum and you will have to jet down. i was running 178 main on my 450 after i had a ported head it ran better on 175 when everyone recomended 195 which was way rich.... IF the smoke is black you can drop the main a size BUT check your plug you dont wanna go to low and burn it up,but then again idk how well your porting was done,if its blue smoke (even the least bit of blue) your burning oil just my .02 cents

[Nate105]

were do you guys think i should try next i'm at a loss everything is almost new. right now its puffing both blue and black. but right now I want the blue to go away lol. any Ideas what i could check.