zerk and carrier install

[flaneledholes]

I have a stock swing-arm, and a meszmoto carrier, and I want a grease zerk added. I took it to a mechanic to have the carrier installed, but he declined to put the zerk on. It is time for new bearings, and I was wanting to put the zerk on while I had my my rear end torn down... But I really need to know the procedurew for this, I know you cant just tap a szerk there cuz u will never be alble to adjust your chain then!lol. But I am trusting my fellow exrider members to help me out...:)

THe carrier didn't come with a zerk?????

[Taco]

Are you wanting a way to grease your carrier without taking it out of the bike? The only way is to cut a big hole in your swingarm back there.

[Castor-426ex]

thats what Im talkin about!!!!!!!:D :D :D

[flaneledholes]

To answer all ?'s, It did come with a zerk, and will it be safe to do that to a stock carrier? I mean, come on, it isnt all that strong from what I can see... Thak you...

[400exBro]

is it safe doing that to the stock swing arm, cutting a big hole out in the middle so you can gresse the bearing carrier???
i just ordered my dual roller a couple weeks ago and should be here soon....

also should i put some grease on the inside of the swing arm where the carrier sits??? i heard this cuase it to slid around and the chain will come lose...

[flaneledholes]

Originally posted by 400exBro
is it safe doing that to the stock swing arm, cutting a big hole out in the middle so you can gresse the bearing carrier???
i just ordered my dual roller a couple weeks ago and should be here soon....

also should i put some grease on the inside of the swing arm where the carrier sits??? i heard this cuase it to slid around and the chain will come lose...

hopefully someone will answer both of our questions.........

[Rip_Tear]

This is what I would suggest, it was posted in the maitiance forum :D

http://exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=423787/dscf0168.jpeg

[flaneledholes]

well, that would be kool n all, if I hadnt allready bought a carrier...

[flaneledholes]

BUMP:)

[bongwater200]

Be careful greasing your carrier. If you go too crazy with Mr. Grease gun, you could blow the seals out. Also, if you grease too much, the grease will push past the seals and into your brake rotor. Also, if you ride really hard to the point where the grease heats up and expands, it WILL push past the seals. Then it will just attract dirt while you ride and ruin your seals AND bearings.

Personally, I say buy double-sealed shielded bearings and don't worry about greasing them. They're expensive, but hold up much longer. Also.... the bearings that MOST aftermarket carriers use is actually a bearing that was built for Delco air conditioning compressor clutches. If you can find the bearing number, you can get these bearings A LOT cheaper through an automotive supplier.

[flaneledholes]

Does any one know of a way I can get a hold of meszmoto? I mean, I PMed him in all, but he still hasnt replied.. I dont want to call and ask ?'s when I dont plan on buying ne thing.. I might ask a few ?'s when I buy the bearings... Than you any ways guys n gals...:)

[JOEX]

meszmoto 877-374-0975 I belive it's toll free. He's a decent guy to talk to when you can get ahold of him.

Joe

[jgray]

I just did both of these. I had a carrier (billet) I purchased two years ago.. I had to replace the bearings so I decided to install a zerk. I simply bought a pack of zerks, drilled and tapped the correct size hole in the center of the carrier (important) and used loctite (black). I then drill a 3/4" dia. hole in the center of my stock swingarm, and installed a automotive rubber plug in the hole to keep the water and dirt out of the hole. its going to work great. Its not fully installed onto the bike yet.
I work in a engineering enviroment. I have run this by some of them, and ALL of concluded there in NO harm in drilling a hole in this location !!!
I can help further if you wish !! Good Luck !

Jason

O yea.. for the bearings, I actually removed the inner seals of both bearings, and pocked three needle size holes on the outer seals of both bearings. I then pumped with grease till the new Marine grade grease came thru all six pin sized hole. Then I installed the two carrier seals.

I guess the one down fall too this type of zerk application is, you have to adjust your chain evertime you want to grease the bearings. But in my opinion its better then replacing bearings or removing your whole axle to get to the bearings or zerk..

Sorry so long !!

[JOEX]

Jason,
Where exactly did you put the hole in the swing arm? What size?
Any thoughts of making an oval shaped hole for easier access, maybe there wouldn't be the need to adjust the chain.

Joe

Personally, I say buy double-sealed shielded bearings and don't worry about greasing them. They're expensive, but hold up much longer. Also.... the bearings that MOST aftermarket carriers use is actually a bearing that was built for Delco air conditioning compressor clutches. If you can find the bearing number, you can get these bearings A LOT cheaper through an automotive supplier.

Will someone with a a good caliper etc measure one up and post it here and I will let the cat out of the bag. This is the last time I am gonna offer so do it now or just keep getting soaked on the expensive crap chinese bearings forever.

You bring up some good thoughts (install sealed bearings and leave them be is the best advise) and the one that I allways see is missing and very misleading is the fact that if you leave the seals in place and pump a bunch of grease its just going to fill up the space in between the two bearings its not going to do anything for the bearings at all.

The flip side to this (It was said by another member on a previous thread that they removed the inner seals so they could grease them) is removing seals from the bearings and pumping away with the grease gun. Bearing people love this approach as it causes more bearing failures then they can count. When you overload the bearings with grease you give the bearings a buch of "crap" to turn thru and this even though its grease will cause heat. This alone can cause the failure but will be most likely be joined by the contaminates that are allowed into the bearing from the over greasing pushing the seals out as stated earlier.

So make it easy on yourself and buy better quality sealed bearings and learn how to install them properly and then just leave them alone, they will last longer that way.

[JOEX]

I recently bought an aftermarket carrier. Is there a way to tell if it has sealed bearings by looking at it?
I totally agree with the sealed bearing theory being well worth the $$.
I'm now wondering if this zerk thing is just a marketing ploy.

Joe

[400exBro]

actually it is a good thing, in away.... once in a while i will pump some fresh grease, just one pump, not a lot, to insuer that they are properly lubed...

but i agree with to much grease it will cause resistance on the bearing, and this will cause heat build up and that will wear em out faster...

[jgray]

JOEX..
I drilled a .750" hole. I just located the hole at 45 degree angle from the rear. It ended up being just above those rubber seals on your chain adjuster bolts.

440EX4me.. Unfortunitly I installed mine and can't recall the size. I remember the ID being 40mm. Not sure of the OD and width. Whats your source for bearings ???

Jason

[jgray]

Ok.. The files are too big, so I had to download them to my yahoo photos section..
Look in the "Axle Carrier" folder..

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/jjagray/

there are some before and after pics in there..

Jason

[400exBro]

any one that has a dual roller bearing, i am wondering is it normal to have the inner metal peice lose?? in between the two outer bearing there is a peice of metal that fills in the gap between the 2 that seems to be loose and moves around... it is not attached to the bearing at all tho////??

did i make sense??

thanks

[jgray]

Made a little sense.. lol..
That peice is the "seal" or a "shield". Sealed bearings are designed to keep out water, mud, etc. They are more expensive, but last longer. They are have more friction, which means are slower. Shielded bearing are not designed to keep mud and water out. They are desgned to keep big stuff out and as much grease in as posible. Usually a cheaper bearing in price. But there is less friction, so its a faster bearing.. Not that a faster or slower bearing will be noticed in this situation..
I have to guess its a shielded bearing.. So be careful of the enviroment that things sees !!!

Jason

any one that has a dual roller bearing, i am wondering is it normal to have the inner metal peice lose?? in between the two outer bearing there is a peice of metal that fills in the gap between the 2 that seems to be loose and moves around... it is not attached to the bearing at all tho////??

If I am understanding you correctly there are two bearings and two races per side, or four bearings/ eight pieces total (plus the spacer or washer you are talking about)

I didnt think they used that set up but I have not seen one unassembled so I am not sure.

The dbl taper roller bearing assembly you describe would have a thin metal spacer (like a washer) that should take up any play in the assembly. but since they are not really designed (to my knowledge at least) for this application it would be possible for them to be loose etc.

Got any pics?

[JOEX]

Thanks for the pics Jason.

[400exBro]

sorry i can't get pics right now... our digital camera is set up for our other comp and that won't be back for a while....

does any one have a rad dual roller??? becuase thats what it is...

let me break it down,,, you got the outer dust seals, then you got your first bearing after that, after that bearing is a long washer looking type round barrell that can be able to adjust it self if needed.... it also fills the gap between the left side bearing and the right side bearing....

do see what i mean.... it is hard to explain...

actually if you look into the middle of this bearing carrier you can see that the middle is at a different angle then the bearings... and i got the same carrier so i am good, nothing wrong...

http://exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=423787/dscf0168.jpeg

[JOEX]

Mine was loose too, after filling it with grease it doesn't wiggle anymore. I'm assuming this is normal.

Joe

[Jnine]

Heres the bottom line guys... These two guys have it down...

"I totally agree with the sealed bearing theory being well worth the $$. I'm now wondering if this zerk thing is just a marketing ploy..

"Personally, I say buy double-sealed shielded bearings and don't worry about greasing them."

This is the thing to do...
Don't drill a hole in the back of anything! You want to keep dirt out, not let more in. Besides, even if you can find a zerk on the back of the bearing carrier, you have to ask, where is the grease going to go? The answer is NOT into the bearings because they are sealed from BOTH sides. You will simply pump the carrier full of grease, and you will still need to replace your bearings just as often as you normally do. Just plan on changing the bearings once a year guys. It's no big deal! Besides, if you let the bearings go longer until they fail & explode, it will cost you a H@@L of a lot more than two bearings! You'll probably need a sprocket hub & maybe another carrier too! I've been in this ATV business for a LONG time, and it's just a yearly maintainance item. THe grease zerk thing is a waste, and it is nothing more than a marketing thing. It has no value except to the guy who came up with the idea, and he was too stupid to know any better, other than he could charge a few extra bucks.

As for my bike, I only run the shielded & sealed bearings, and I don't even run the outer seals on the axle. You will find almost all of your pro riders only run the bearings, with no seal between the bearing carrier and the axle. The reason is, the seal takes LOTS of power.

I think this is the bearing number you need:
bearing type: Federal Mogul No. 970257

Off the top of my head, I think that is the right number. If not, let me know and I will post the correct one here.

Oh boy... Heres another post thats going to get me another round of ugly calls from some of the places trying to sell you something you don't need. It happens!

Good luck guys.

[flaneledholes]

Originally posted by Jnine
Heres the bottom line guys... These two guys have it down...

"I totally agree with the sealed bearing theory being well worth the $$. I'm now wondering if this zerk thing is just a marketing ploy..

"Personally, I say buy double-sealed shielded bearings and don't worry about greasing them."

This is the thing to do...
Don't drill a hole in the back of anything! You want to keep dirt out, not let more in. Besides, even if you can find a zerk on the back of the bearing carrier, you have to ask, where is the grease going to go? The answer is NOT into the bearings because they are sealed from BOTH sides. You will simply pump the carrier full of grease, and you will still need to replace your bearings just as often as you normally do. Just plan on changing the bearings once a year guys. It's no big deal! Besides, if you let the bearings go longer until they fail & explode, it will cost you a H@@L of a lot more than two bearings! You'll probably need a sprocket hub & maybe another carrier too! I've been in this ATV business for a LONG time, and it's just a yearly maintainance item. THe grease zerk thing is a waste, and it is nothing more than a marketing thing. It has no value except to the guy who came up with the idea, and he was too stupid to know any better, other than he could charge a few extra bucks.

As for my bike, I only run the shielded & sealed bearings, and I don't even run the outer seals on the axle. You will find almost all of your pro riders only run the bearings, with no seal between the bearing carrier and the axle. The reason is, the seal takes LOTS of power.

I think this is the bearing number you need:
bearing type: Federal Mogul No. 970257

Off the top of my head, I think that is the right number. If not, let me know and I will post the correct one here.

Oh boy... Heres another post thats going to get me another round of ugly calls from some of the places trying to sell you something you don't need. It happens!

Good luck guys. \

I get your point, and I do not plan on putting a zerk on my carrier(30 bucks a year aint bad) but your theory on the zerk thing, I have to dissagree... My dad owns Tractor and trailers, and I have to grease them every weeked... All the zerks... Do you think they would just put zerks on those thruck that are under a lot of stress for no reason so I can spend 45 min. on each truck? I think not. But for something as light as a quad sure... But I think the zerk is a nice investment IMHO.

[400exBro]

i also think it is a good idea for the grease zerk,,, on our tractors and heavy equipment we grease the zerks every weekend to ensure everything is well lubed.... why else would they put it on there... it is a matance thing...

plus today i drilled a 1/2 hole in the back of my swing arm so that i could grease it.... and then took a m12 tap and taped the hole so i could use a small bolt and a sealing washer to close of the hole to ensure no drit and mositer can get in there...


but it is hard to argue against someone that has been doing this more then i have probably been a live for... i think john nows his stuff... so really does the zerk have a use???

[Doibugu2]

I think you guys are slightly confused by Jnines post. The zerks on your equipment are designed to accept grease and keep things properly lubed.

If you drill a hole into the back of a carrier that is sealed and install a zerk, your not greasing anything. Duh, there is no grease going on the bearings. I hope this might clear it up a bit.

[flaneledholes]

Originally posted by Doibugu2
I think you guys are slightly confused by Jnines post. The zerks on your equipment are designed to accept grease and keep things properly lubed.

If you drill a hole into the back of a carrier that is sealed and install a zerk, your not greasing anything. Duh, there is no grease going on the bearings. I hope this might clear it up a bit.

understood as is..... but I am just saying... A zerk on non sealed equipment is better.... Just my opinion...

[JOEX]

This is what I have gotten out of this thread so far:

Yes, zerks are a great thing for easier maintenance when used for the PROPER APPLICATION ...we are talking about quads here not tractors:)

Drilling a hole in the swing arm to access a zerk fitting to grease sealed bearings is a waste of time and could potentionally cause severe damage....allowing dirt and water into places they shouldn't be.

I still have some questions:
How do I know if my bearings are sealed?
I recently puchased a Burgard carrier with a zerk fitting. It came with a note saying the carrier needs to be greased prior to installing. So I pumped grease into it until it just started to ooze out the ends.
Is this the correct way?
I'm assuming now that the grease just pads the spacer between the bearings....is this correct?
Do I need to do anything else?

I've installed it, but haven't ran it yet, i'm still waiting for my axle to get here.

Joe

I think this is the bearing number you need:bearing type: Federal Mogul No. 970257

Thanx


THe grease zerk thing is a waste, and it is nothing more than a marketing thing. It has no value except to the guy who came up with the idea, and he was too stupid to know any better, other than he could charge a few extra bucks.

Thanx some more :)


Oh boy... Heres another post thats going to get me another round of ugly calls from some of the places trying to sell you something you don't need. It happens!

John, your honesty here will earn you many more friends than any possible enemys etc. I do know what you mean though cause some people just cant handle it "straight" but then maybe we would all do better with out them :D


get your point, and I do not plan on putting a zerk on my carrier(30 bucks a year aint bad) but your theory on the zerk thing, I have to dissagree... My dad owns Tractor and trailers, and I have to grease them every weeked... All the zerks... Do you think they would just put zerks on those thruck that are under a lot of stress for no reason so I can spend 45 min. on each truck? I think not. But for something as light as a quad sure... But I think the zerk is a nice investment IMHO.

One very big point that you are missing is that the greaseable points on a truck or tractor are mostly (yep not all of them are set up right) designed for being greased. What this means is that there is either space or a way out for the spent grease. Some heavy equipment and machinery are designed this way also but as I said earlier not every bearing on these machines are set up for greasing the same.

I could go on for a while listing all the reasons and examples but to simplify things a little think of it this way: if the bearing etc is a sliding surface like a bronze or steel bushing etc then most all times its ok to grease away till you purge out the old stuff, but if its a anti friction ball or roller type bearings then most all (not every last one ever made, there are exceptions but be carefull) dont need the extra grease and pumping till it purges will most times damage it by blowing out the seals and generating heat.

So now you say what about non sealed or open bearings, well most of these are still sealed by a seperate outer seal and are still subject to the same heat problems, so you need to know just how much grease this particular bearing needs and dont over do it.

I have seen more than one premature bearing failure from overgreasing and as I said b4 the bearing manufacturers love it.

[JOEX]

if its a anti friction ball or roller type bearings then most all (not every last one ever made, there are exceptions but be carefull) dont need the extra grease and pumping till it purges will most times damage it by blowing out the seals and generating heat.
I understand this, but how do we know what type we have?
Is there a way to tell just by looking at it?


I think this is the bearing number you need:bearing type: Federal Mogul No. 970257

Is this for single or double row? Or do you need two for a single row and four for a double row?

Joe

I understand this, but how do we know what type we have?

Basicaly by looking at the bearing. An open bearing you will easily see the rollers or balls etc , a sealed bearing is normally sealed on one or two sides with a black seal (can be other colors but blk is most popular) and you cant see anyting inside the bearing, a shielded bearing is basicly just like a sealed one but it has a metal shield instead of the rubber seal and it doesnt contact the inner ring and will allow water and other contaminates into the bearing.

There are other types of "sealing" used on bearings like a non contact seal that doesnt actually ride on the inner ring but operates more like a shield or a mech seal that attaches to both id and od and rides within itself, but you wont see these in our industry because in the sizes we would need in a carrier it would cost more than the entire set up.

[400exBro]

how much grease am i supose to pump into my bearing ???

mine didn't come with a note saying that i should pump some in... i persome there is none in the becuase, usually a bearing is never greased when it is sent..... i already put 3 pumps in with the grease gun but i still don't think it is enough... i need an idea, i will call the manufacture on monday and ask..

oopps i already drilled a hole into the back of my swing arm...:rolleyes:
but the thing is i will be using a bolt, sealing washer and some silcone to seal on the hole to enurse no moister or dirt get into that hole...... it will work, right?

mine didn't come with a note saying that i should pump some in... i persome there is none in the becuase, usually a bearing is never greased when it is sent.....

Most times you wont see a lot of info on bearings due to the confusion on the part of the manufacturer.

Allmost all sealed or shielded bearings will come pre filled with grease and are supposedly "greased for life" which of course is the bearings anticipated life.

[jgray]

I really don't understand why people are saying that grease is bad for bearings. Ok, not grease, but too much grease.. What about bearings on a trailer.. I have bearing Buddies on my trailer, and I grease them all the time.. No problems for years..
This is what I did:
I drilled a 3/4" hole in my swingarm too access my carrier which has a zerk (I installed the zerk). The bearings have the inner seal removed to allow the grease to
penetrate the bearings. I have a rubber plug to install onto the swingarm that will not allow anything into it. Even if you run it without a plug (open hole) its still not ever going to reach the bearings.. It would just fill that cavity in between the swingarm and carrier.

I am wondering: Has anyone replaced there bearings in there carrier that came with a Zerk from the manufacture ?? Do the bearings have there inner seals removed ??

400EXBRO: Are you sure a 1/2 hole is large enough. I am not sure if the grease gun will fir in there ??

Doibugu2: I removed my inner seals to allow grease in there as stated earlier.


Good Luck !!!
Jason

[400exBro]

YA I am sure it will work... we have an adapter that is meant to go in to really small spaces to reach the zerks... it is about 1/4' so it works well...

i am going to call the manufactoer today and ask what the recomend amount of grease should go in...