Swingarm needle bearing install

[CJM]

Thankfully I have never had to replace these, till now that is.

After a battle I got them both out, one the needles fell right out and then it was a battle to get it out and the other came out kinda easy.

Unfortunately I was in a rush and got a few Q's.

1. Do I install the needle bearings from the outside till the large washer fits in snugly?

2. Which side does the larger of the two shafts that go into the engine go? As if you were facing top down staring at the swingarm.

3. The one dust seal I understand goes on the outside, but the other ones were nonexistent on my swinger-I assume they go all the way inside snug up to the bearing?

Preciate the help fellas, sometimes rushing is a bad Idea.

Oh btw, an 18mm socket fits wonderfully inside the swingarm and a large punch and a thick washer works well so you dont get the punch stuck in the socket.

[quadmanw]

I seem to be doing this all the time lol.. Grease the chit out of the inside of the swing arm and then smack the bearings in with the socket.. I put the two black dust seals right on the inside of the inner part and push the bearings up to it.. This has never given me a problem. And as for the little bushing things.. You have to look at the motor because the one side is longer as you can tell lol. Hope this helps! Remember grease is your best friend while doing this

[CJM]

Ok so if Im understanding this right lol.

I take the bearing and push it in till it touches the outer washer on the outside of the swingarm. Then I take the smaller dust seal and push it in till it fits snugly against the bearing on the inside of the swingarm.

Ive attached a picture of the washer im talking about. Its not an exact match to the parts but you get the idea.

[quadmanw]

I have never seen that washer.. Did you buy oem? All 3 kits I have ever bought only have 2 dust seals.. 2 bearings.. 2 caps.. And 2 spacer kind of things for the outside under the cap.. I have never saw those and did not see them on any diagrams bro lol

[CJM]

I bought pivot works. Thats just a generic picture I found of a kit. The part I circled is similar but not the exact same thing Im talking about.

Anyways what Im referring to is this:

When you got it all apart you have a few basic things.
1. The bearing itself
2. The collar thing the bolt rides in
3. The dust seals
4. The very larger washer that goes on the outside of the swingarm
5. The part im talking about. Its a washer with a flange on it. They were underneath of part #4 the very larger washer.

What Im confused about since my bearings were junk is does the bearing side against part #4?

Honestly the fact that the bearings are only an inch long is rather dumb anyways, they should be much longer so as to carry less load. But honda designed it that way lol.

[quadmanw]

Oh I know exactly what you mean man. I never put the bearing against that. Im pretty sure it's not meant to. I put the dust seals in from inner side of the swing arm then I grease it up and push the bearing all the the dust seal or to the center.. Then put those little washer things youre talking about on then the large cap things..

I completely agree about the short bearings. It's a stupid setup along with the swing arm bolt being a different metal lol

[CJM]

I think i got it.

Really shoulda paid more attn when I took it apart, but with one that was in pieces and them being a pain to remove it didnt help lol.

[quadmanw]

Yeah lol. If you need any help I can take pics and send em to you cause I have mine laying in my basement lol. It's not too hard

[CJM]

Pics would be helpful if you dont mind.

least you can do after all the advice I gave ya :blah: hehehe

[quadmanw]

Hahaha I know, you're my go to man.. Can it wait until tomorrow evening? I have class tomorrow lol

[CJM]

No rush.

[dxcody]

I think CJM is everyones go-to man!

He's a beast at mechanical stuff. :macho

[quadmanw]

Alright thanks man, wanna pm me your email? It's easier for me to send them through email from my phone

[CJM]

I dont know everything ya know Cody.

Those bearings sure gave me a run for my money today too!

[Reece616]

I just installed a pivot works kit in mine last week.
What I did was press each bearing into the swinger from the outside in until flush, then used the part I think you were calling a washer (manual calls it a thrust bushing ) to push the bearing in further and fully seat the washer.
Then I filled it up with grease, the small seal goes in flush on the inner and the larger goes outside. Then put some grease on outside and seal it with the large cap.

The large collar goes to the right.

Also make sure you throw those bearings in the freezer over night and my method I mentioned before of using a long threaded bolt and washers and a nut with the impact wrench makes short work of it.

[250x_kyle]

throw the needle bearings in the freezer i could look up the info and tell you how long it would take exactly for it to shrink to as small as it can go but i can post this at a later date if anyone is interested. an hour should be more then enough for all the more material is there.

the "washer" your are seeing is actually a thrust bearing (in most cases just help dampen the axial load parallel to the object. in this case the swingarm bolt ). think of it like a tapered wheel bearing on your car or truck. the difference is the tapered bearing take force both perpendicular and parallel. for some reason i dont remember them being on a 400ex swingarm but it has been a few years.

thrust bearings go between the dust caps and a washer wich would seat flush up against swingarm boss (the extrution on the side of the swingarm where you press the bearing into).

i always tap the dust seal in against the bearing but that can depend on how easy they go in lol.

i cant help you on the collars its been too long to remember how wich of the longer goes where. however look at the rear motor mount im guessing it is off set a touch. (look at the frame rails vs the motor mount locations. pull a quick measurement) it should only slide in one way. basically its fool proof for chain alignment. the bearings may need to be tapped in a touch past fluch fo everything to line up. i do not beleive there is a bushing that goes into the outside of the swingarm reducing the dia. to the same as the collar.

so if there are dust caps on it it should have a hard washer like surface on the inside. the thrust washer will go in against that. then a washer those will slide up agains the swingarm itself. the bearing should seat flush in the swingarm if i remember correctly.

if i had to guess i think the longer one goes on the right side

[CJM]

Thanks guys. Thats how I figured they went but it makes little sense why the bearings are so small. Bearings off a dirtbike swinger are either double size or use 2 bearings, yet the ones on this thing are barely have the size.

Anyways I got it: bearing goes in, push further in with thrust washer, then put outer seal and the larger washer on outside and the inner seal goes against the bearing inside?

I dont know why this is so confusing, the manual even sucks on this.

[quadmanw]

The dust seal can go against the bearing or just right inside the swinger.. This dude explained it a lot better than me lol

[Reece616]

The manual I have shows the small dust seal flush with the inner part of the swing arm, leaving a gap between it and the bearing.
I did it that way and just filled the gap with grease.

[CJM]

Interesting. So your manual shows it at the end of the inside part of the swing huh?

IDK like I said no idea why the bearing is so short, which is what makes this all the more stupid a setup. Were all making this more difficult than it needs to be lol..

[Reece616]

Yup.

Yea, it is pretty simple, but its not something you really wanna mess up haha

[CJM]

Agreed.

Curiously what manual do you have:? Im using the factory manual I DL but it sometimes leaves alot to be desired.

[Reece616]

I actually have the factory service manual as well Haha
Hmmm

[CJM]

I see what it is, whomever scanned in the copy I have the picture of that is slightly messed up and kinda missing some pieces or something.

[250x_kyle]

Originally posted by CJM
Interesting. So your manual shows it at the end of the inside part of the swing huh?

IDK like I said no idea why the bearing is so short, which is what makes this all the more stupid a setup. Were all making this more difficult than it needs to be lol..

not 100 percent sure on bearings but i know some of the things at work the longer the peice getting pressed in the tolerances get tighter for machining so you can press it in without breakage. with needle bearings getting pressed into to small of a hole it would cause the retainer to pop out since the force would end up making it collapse on itself. now if the swingarm itself was weaker then the bearing it would possibly break.