z400 vs 400ex vs 450

[300ridr]

alright guys, i know this is a common thread but mine has a slight tweak. so i have a yz250 and i wish i had a quad, and im trying to sell or trade it off. mines a little rough and ill probably not get over 1500 for it. i have two cousins with 400exs for possible sale. one..he wants ~$2000 for it and has cam, powercore 4, beadlocks, axle, shocks, and maybe a few other things and is an 06. the other is an older one, possible straight trade has 20 over, cam, p & p, fmf ti 4, and geared..but is a little rough and no suspension work, so ill need to spend some on it. my other options, of course, are the z400/kfx or a 450. for the z's, i can get a stock to piped one for roughly 2 grand. same with older yfz 450s. now, i know the 400ex is the most reliable, and the 450 is the lightest and fastest. the z is generally the midway. i mainly ride my little track and my friends mx track, so i like to jump. ive read the z isnt the best jumper though, is that true? i also ride some trails, nothing super tight but have a few slow parts. i also want to start racing and want to beat my bro and friends...125 and 250f dirtbikes...so ill need some juice. when i went to my friends, i rode is piped 400ex and id consider us equal riders. hes at his home track, so he had the advantage, and i didnt wanna wipe his bike out. he basically spanked me. i dont like that! but, for the price and reliability, i like a 400ex. the z, i mainly like the speed and reverse. a 450, im just pushing the price a little. i also hate working on bikes. my past 2 bikes, ive dumped thousands in. so obviously, the 400 sounds the best, but i just want that power and jumping capability! how is the reliability on the z and 450s anyway? and which do you guys recomend??

p.s. sorry for the novel

[BlasterEaten250]

Neither 400 will beat a 125 or 250f without quite a bit of work, but it'll keep up well enough... I'd say the 2006 400ex. The only 450 you will find in the 2000 range will most likely be beat to death.

[300ridr]

heres the 450 i saw..http://stlouis.craigslist.org/mcd/2772897585.html
but i definately agree! im nervous about the 450 for reliability! built vs built, will an ex and z be close?

[quadmanw]

Well I'm gonna tell you this.. You're in the EX thread so I think a lot are going to recommend one like I am.. Lol. The 400 is bulletproof and there is so many easy mods you can do to them. They are fast in a straight away and very fast in the woods.. A 450 will obviously smoke a stock 400 but are too fast unless geared down for xc racing. The only thing I like about the Z is the older body style.. But IMO the 400 is one of the best quads you can buy.

[300ridr]

ya i figured it would be biased..lol what kind of cheap and easy mods can i do?

[quadmanw]

450r front shocks and 450r foot pegs.. Sparks racing timing key.. Exhaust and jetting (that's for any quad) modify the air box , GT Thunder linkage.. Yfz 450 brake calipers.. 450r carb I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting lol. You can find almost everything in these guys signatures

[300ridr]

cool thank you!! lol, still gotta fix the yz before anybody buys or trade for it! :/

[jkosakowski]

You CANT beat the reliability of a 400ex. :)

[BlasterEaten250]

Originally posted by 300ridr
heres the 450 i saw..http://stlouis.craigslist.org/mcd/2772897585.html
but i definately agree! im nervous about the 450 for reliability! built vs built, will an ex and z be close? If they are both built the z will be faster. But if they both have basically a pipe and filter they are very similar. My biggest complaint with the z400 is working on the dang things.

As far as I can tell from the pictures that actually looks like a pretty good deal on the yfz.

[dxcody]

i have owned multiple 400ex's.

400ex bone stock
416ex 11:1 piston exhaust hotcam etc..
426ex same as the 416

My 416 was hands down the best 400ex i had owned.

I now have a z400 but i havent got ANY time on it yet. I bought it yesterday and i have to buy shim kit as the valves are in need of adjustment.

I used to be a die hard 400ex fan, i would swear up and down that the 400ex is the best, but just by looks, it looks like the Z400 is a little better because of the liquid cooling, i like the carb on it better... etc.

400ex is sooooo simple to work on,
unfortunatly i had to work on my 400 alot. But i think i just had 2 bad eggs because i rode the crap out of my 416 and never had any problems, but the other 2 400ex's i owned, i couldnt keep them going. Alot of that was mechanical error's that I made.

They are all good though.

[BlasterEaten250]

Originally posted by dxcody
i like the carb on it better... etc.
Haha ohhh just wait :blah:

[chronicsmoke]

The only thing sketchy about the YFZ they have that leak in the side case, and I've seen them blow up more often than anything else.

My buddy bought one and blew the cylinder and head on it.. cost him big time $$ to get it fixed.

Yes the ex is the easiest, that MAY be the best option IF and ONLY IF you decide you are going to do all of your rebuilds by yourself. If you're not, and plan on having a mechanic doing it, who cares how simple it is ;)

IMO If you can work on an EX you can work on a Z. Liquid cooling is old tech. the 250r's are liquid and they are stupid simple

Liquid cooling is NOTHING but an ASSET.

[quadmanw]

I don't like the rear end setup on then Z lol

[300ridr]

Thanks guys! Working on them isnt an issue really! Lol thats what a clymer is for! My main consern for the z is reliability and jumping! Im not sure about how long they last! Ive read that the ex is a better jumper too?

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by quadmanw
I don't like the rear end setup on then Z lol

I admit it is a pain to tighten the chain, but once you know how to do it, and do it regularly (so no bolts are seized) its really not hard


The Z jumped the same as my 400.. they both had 450r shocks thats it. I doubt you'd notice a significant difference if you had the same amount of time on both of them.

[dxcody]

The big thing, is BE OPEN MINDED!

Seriously, whatever you get your are probably going to LOVE!

I loved all my quads even when they were not running, i may have cussed honda 300,000,000x while working on them but i still loved them.

Just like last night, i was workin on my z400 and stabbed a screw driver into my hand while my hand was soaked in gas... (it burns a little, wouldnt reccomed doing that BTW) and i was calling it a POS suzuki, blah blah blah, but its still mine and im gonna be proud when its all done and ready to go.

I have had those 400's, a z400, a YFZ450, and a 300ex. Liked them all EXCEPT! the yfz.. talk about a bad egg...

[jkosakowski]

Haha ^ dumb yamaha :D

[dxcody]

Originally posted by jkosakowski
Haha ^ dumb yamaha :D

Yamaha is one brand, i absolutly hate..

I would own a grizzly but no yfz's

[CJM]

Ive ridden alot of stuff over the years, I have only owned honda and an old arse suzuki tho. Can say I like hondas only b/c they are reliable and tend to last a LONG time. They also dont update thier stuff much so parts are easy to find. This makes it MUCH easier to handle thanother things, no 2-3 year little designs that changed or whatever.

I dislike yamahas, they always seem to break down for one reason or another. Suzukis ok (thought you were gonna get an LTR btw? cody?) but not a favorite.

Its all personal preference really. Is my 400ex fast..meh by now Im used to the power-before when it was mostly stock it was slow imho but still better than other things. Is it the fastest-nope-but the thing is I can keep up just fine due to the mods and ability. Do i want a 450 class quad-you bet but I got way to much wrapped up into the old EX for it to be worthwhile to sell it and buy something else. Plus if I do a 450 its getting a stroker and a big bore b/c in stock or even mild modded form they aint much to write home about.

[dxcody]

The LTR was a flop.

Bummer... but the LTZ just seemed like a better deal and alot less work and money in the long run.

I think another thing everyone loves about the 400ex is how low maintainace it is.. Stock that is. When you start modding the crap out of them the maintanance gets a little more to keep up with but nothing bad.

[CJM]

Maintenance on a 400ex? Change oil, lube chain and go lol.

[2001400exrida]

you don't need to do that much to a 450r. just uncork it and you will be writing home, lol. the newer trx450's are faster because they have the fcr carb and the 12:1 comp piston.

Thes Z's are faster than the 400ex's, but you can build a 400ex to beat a Z.

Go with your personal preference, but as everybody else mentioned, you can't go wrong with a 400ex

[finsteratv]

I you dont like working on stuff i'd get a 400. the 450's you'll have valve hassles, more matinence etc. we have 2 400's and pretty much no problems with them. If you could ride that 06 awhile then mod it into a 416 i think you'd have the best of both worlds. Honestly i just bought a 450 because i dont mind working on my bikes (i like it) and because the power/suspension doesnt need any work like a 400.

[300ridr]

thanks a ton guys! havent been on in a day or so! ya, a 450 is slowly ruling itself out, i like working on them but simply cant afford to! i think fate is just gonna be my factor between the z and ex. i would do the same mods to both..pipe, cam (z has two so cost more:(), big bore kit (416ex or z434), carb, filter, and maybe a few others. thing i like about z's is reverse, faster, and on the 05+ they upgraded the suspension. the ex, i like the reliability but i havent heard anything bad about the z engine wise, so i think ill be safe. its all going to depend what i can get for the yz i think! but if i have cash i think im going to lean z..but who knows! lol i hate decisions:(

[Rohr397]

I know a lot of people with Z's and they hate them. If you're just gonna play around they're good but my friend couldnt seem to get his off the ground, it never jumped well or landed well for that matter. It also went through topends way faster then it shouldve, coulda been a bad egg but it was a nightmare for him. I also dont like how bulky they are.

Now for Yfz's, I am one guy on here who loves Yamaha and grew up riding them. I came up through the Raptor 250 and then bought a 450r instead of a Yfz because of price. I ended up trading my 450r for a 2004 Yfz450. Instead of buying a running Yfz450 I bought a project quad though. $1000 later and it ran (looked terrible though since the guy trashed it) and really had no more mechanical problems then my 450r. I did have transmission problems but that was 100% the last owners fault for not having a full set of clutch plates and fibers in it, as well as the absense of the spring plate in the back. The situation with Yamaha's is that people tend to beat the S out of them. If you get a brand new one or one with low hours (20 or less), you can do what you do with a 450r and it will run just as good for just as long. But a used Yamaha is usually somebody else's mess that they're passing off to you. But they're actually cheaper then Honda's to buy parts for against popular belief. Yamaha uses the same parts for almost all their bikes and quads so it doesn't cost them much to produce the same products versus producing special ones. I got my whole clutch minus the basket for under $100 brand new from the shop. Clutch springs were $1 a spring.

I'd say Honda is just about as good though, I really love my 400ex but Honda's ride a little different then all the others in my opinion so people who are into Honda's tend to stick to Honda's because its hard to adapt to the feel of other quads. My 2 cents on the Honda is that the 400ex is the same proven chassis as the 250r and basically the same as the 450r. They do their stuff right every time, it's not the best but its guaranteed to be good quality every time. It's a big confidence booster for me knowing what I'm buying is going to be good. I mean obviously there's people who beat these things and not every 400ex is going to be worth buying if some idiot trashed it, but as long as it's solid it's a safe purchase. They're also super easy to work on, and the 400ex forum is the best one on here :P

[300ridr]

ya the more i look at it, the better a ex sounds..i had a 300ex and loved it, wanted more power but loved it. my only set back on the ex was my friends, his felt weak to me, but then again, i was coming off my yz lol. plus all the cheap upgrades..06+ 450r swinger and such..plus that motor is proven! thanks guys!

[beastlywarrior]

i like the z but the seat is just too tall for me, complete opposite of my warrior

[CJM]

What I have found in riding different stuff is the following:
-400ex is torquey, you got some good lowdown power even when stock. Bump the compression w/a new piston and throw a cam in and it will be a very nice ride.

-450r, faster than a modded ex-but not insanely. Mostly the power is the topend and higher gears. They like to rev and will spin tires rather easy on most terrain. I feel that if you were to swap the stock cam for something else and setup the gearing more for torque it would be better. My friends HRC 450 is about equal to another friends balance ed fuel injection yfz450r, my EX while slower than both feels peppier due to the torque and gearing it has, and while they are faster its not by a huge amount. I rode a friends YFZ450 for a good bit of time, it was mostly stock just a pipe and jetted-it didnt feel all that fast-it did have more topend.

-Z400/KFX, shame they dont handle all to well imho. I rode 2 different friends and I can say they are ok but they feel to topheavy to me-sort of like a raptor in that they lean almost too much. Stock they are as fast as a modded EX as they have a good bit of topend, but down low I dislike them for thier lack of torque. The swingarms are notorious for problems as well.

In all honesty Im quite happy with the power of the EX and the way I set it up. It seems since I and a few others have been preaching this same setup-many others have done and LOVE it. About all I havent done is put the my 450r carb on there. Right now with the EX carb its got the power but I lack alot of topend speed.

[dxcody]

CJM

You called it. I raced a 2010 YFZ450X on my 426--(most of you know what i had done to it) and we did a 3rd gear rolling drag, i kept up with him until i topped out and he kept going..

But like i said before you will be happy with whatever you buy. Right now i am looking at A arms and an axle for my Z400 because of how awkward it sets after having a decked out 400ex..

Post pics of whatever you get!

[CJM]

Agreed Cody, anythings better than nothing imho.

if you want a good laugh: I used to ride an old as dirt suzuki sport 230. Its about the size of a blaster but it was pretty fun. Wasnt fast really but at least was something. The awkward kick down is fun too (look it up, no other quad since has used such a system!).

If I was gonna buy a 450 quad it would be the can am DS XC or the 450r and Id gear both of them down.

[300ridr]

yes i agree! im just gonna see what i get on trade, and the bikes in mine's trade range are the exs, but you never know what youll get! my cousin will maybe trade me, ill talk to him tomarrow. i think his is 20 over, stage 2 cam, ported and pipe, filter and geared wayyyy up. i think its a lil rough on the outside and the frame is tweaked i believe, but i know that bike and thats a very assuring factor! but i remember when i had my 300, he came out and rode one day and it absolutely murdered me! when we took off for my woods, theres a rr tracks roughly half mile away and honest to go by the time he was there i was maybe 2/3 there, and i had a cammed, geared, and, pipe and piston! so i know it cooks! and ill deffinately post pics of whatever i end up with!

[Rohr397]

I'll just be honest with you, a tweaked frame is something you don't want to mess with at all. I had a Yfz with a tweaked frame and it handled really funky compared to others that I'd ridden. The geometry of the frame gets way out of wack when it's bent.

[300ridr]

ya thats what i was thinking..i just realized another potential bike...trx250r? i know its a smoker but theyre fast, light and cheap to maintnance

[traitor08]

Why trade, I have one fairly cheap, little over an hr from you. 01 400ex

[300ridr]

you got any pics and a price?

[Rohr397]

Personally I have a huge soft spot for a nice 250r. They're an absolute blast to ride and they handle like a dream. They're super light weight and the center of gravity is great. The only thing that is hard about them is that theyre over 20 years old, and for the most part finding a nice, built 250r is no problem but not everyone is honest and takes care of their quads in that spam of time. Engine wise you're good, just make sure the frame is sound, everything else should be good or it's an easy fix. Like you said, theyre cheap, and parts availability is great so almost anything can be replaced for a low cost. Just look for cracks, bends and rust in the frame. At worst you can weld up the frame and gusset it or buy a new titled frame altogether since 250r frames seem to be in abundance (including aftermarket frames >:D ). I wouldn't recommend that for the 400ex but 250rs are incredibly simple and easy to tear down and put together.

[traitor08]

Sent to pm

[KKiowaTJ]

I just came back to the sport after eight years or better. I always rode and raced j-arm banshees. But this time around i wanted a quad i could fill with gas, Turn key, and go. The 400ex fit all that and more.

I ride with 450's and yeah they can blast quicker through some sections, But if your any good on a quad you can keep up and or lead. I haven't had a problem beating a 450 when fatigue sets in and they rely on the quad alone. That and the 450 blows the tires off too much at starts so i have pulled hole shots on them as well.

When i was looking for a quad, There was a few ex's and a hundred z400's. I look at them like the old ltr250r, Suzuki junk that was once a kawi part. Yeah they might be faster in a straight line, But add four turns and the ex will check out fast. In the woods they have reverse, Thats the only advantage their. They are too small IMO and the ergonomics are for **** on the z400. Another thing thats funny, A 2000 400ex has the same value or more than a 03-05' z400.

As mentioned the 250r's are great, But out dated. If you do find one you like, Make sure the #'s match, And make sure its got a TRX 250R motor and not a atc or cr250r motor. That seems to be the common switch and IMO makes it a cobble quad. They are fun to jump on for a bit, But nothing i would call reliable or slim on maintenance.

To each his own, Get what you like and feel comfortable on. But in the same line a 400ex you can get used to and will out last and hold a decent value if the owner knows their *** from a hole in the ground and kept up on things. Good luck either way

[300ridr]

how can i find if the motor and frame match?

[KKiowaTJ]

Check the frame and case #'s along with the pink/title if they have it. There used to be a website that had all the case #'s so it you could reference it, But I'm coming up blank trying to look for it. Possibly a person with much more experience with R's can chime in.

Its just personal preference for me to have a matching chassis and motor, There might not be any set backs except the internal gearing in a cr250r bike motor vs a trx250r.

[CJM]

250r rides different, its a totally different kinda power. Insanely high revving is where it makes the power, down low its meh. In stock form they are nothing to write home about power wise-you do a good motor build and they are a blast.

Problem as others have stated is age, finding a good one is hard b/c most of them are either rebuilt to the hilt (think $$$$) or beaten to hell and back.

Personally speaking of course Id really like to take a crf or trx 450 engine and put it into an aftermarket 250r frame. the ultimate quad pretty much right there.

[chronicsmoke]

The 250r is an awesome bike.. I only use mine for special occasions though.. But cotdamn it's fun to drive. It will tire you out faster, but if you keep it in the powerband, your are absolutely ripping

[honda400ex2003]

x2 on chronic, i feel the same. it wears you out a bit faster but rips if ridden right.

the 400 is smooth all the way from the
steve

[300ridr]

sorry i havent replied guys been busy! ya 250r's would be nice but they go for gold and arent electric start. my friend with the 400 i rode (felt weak and only has jetson czr...ebay...pipe) and i believe is an 08 told me if i can get my hands on a 2003 or new kx125, hed trade me! is that possibly the better route?

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by 300ridr
sorry i havent replied guys been busy! ya 250r's would be nice but they go for gold and arent electric start. my friend with the 400 i rode (felt weak and only has jetson czr...ebay...pipe) and i believe is an 08 told me if i can get my hands on a 2003 or new kx125, hed trade me! is that possibly the better route?

pfft.. electric start, I wont buy another quad that has electric start :p

I say try and find a KX if the guy will for sure trade.. I'd hate to see you stuck with the bike if he backed out though.. :ermm:

[BlasterEaten250]

Originally posted by chronicsmoke
pfft.. electric start, I wont buy another quad that has electric start :p
True that!