dyno numbers

[desratt]

just curious what do 50's and 70's dyno at??

[racerdad80]

Hey I can tell you that are cobra 50 puts out 17hp and the guy that built are motor has a 70ss that puts out 24hp. If you are looking for horsepower and torque you can call ryno racing and ask for ryan his number is 1-618-923-0481. He does awsome work and is great to deal with.

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by racerdad80
Hey I can tell you that are cobra 50 puts out 17hp and the guy that built are motor has a 70ss that puts out 24hp. If you are looking for horsepower and torque you can call ryno racing and ask for ryan his number is 1-618-923-0481. He does awsome work and is great to deal with.

Wow, those are some big numbers for a 50 and 70, looks like the numbers for a 70 and 90 around here.

[don bassani]

I would think that dyno may need to be calibrated,a 90 mod(cr 85 ) doesn't even make that kind of power.

[quadrider79]

I don't know of a 70 Cobra that beat us all last year in a Holeshot in the 70 SS class and our DRR didn't have close that horsepower.

[bloodswet&gears]

The question that was asked was what horsepower do these 50s and 70s make? If you know, answer the mans question. Sounds like only one guy knows and the rest are mocking him. So what do they put out 10 or 11 horses? Maybe a briggs and stratton would be a better powerplant option.

[fastrnrik]

Heath told me one time that a stock 50 was 16 hp

[jay-r]

While I can not verify the dyno numbers, I can say that Racerdad does have a fast Cobra engine.

I have read one time that stock King Cobra 50 engines put out a little over 10 horsepower. I would think that a 25 to 35 percent increase in power could be expected with an engine build without increasing displacement. Dyno readings vary from one to the next. I would be more concerned with the percent increase in power on the same dyno with an engine build. If one dyno read a little higher than different dyno and there was a 35 percent increase in power after a build, then you could see numbers like Racerdad is posting. It is just a calibration thing. Posting dyno numbers always opens a can of worms, everyone's dyno reads different. I would brag on percent increase.

The Cobra cylinders have more agressive porting than a DRR from the factory. But, they do have a lot of casting marks to clean up though. A CVT, even with less HP, is going to be fast on the start since the transmission shifts. The nature of a CVT is that the shifting keeps the maching pulling at peak HP all the time. At least if it is tuned properly. The tuning seems to be the trick. Lol.

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by bloodswet&gears
The question that was asked was what horsepower do these 50s and 70s make? If you know, answer the mans question. Sounds like only one guy knows and the rest are mocking him. So what do they put out 10 or 11 horses? Maybe a briggs and stratton would be a better powerplant option.

Well I was not mocking anyone, only giving my opinion on what I see in this area on my Dyno, I have owned and operated a Dynojet Dyno for 5 or 6 years and granted I have not dynoed a bunch of Cobra SS Motors the ones I have done were not that high but not saying its not possible cuz Lord knows most anything is but on the track if a 70 SS made those numbers it sure would be more competitive against the CVT's, should whoop their asses imo.

With the numbers stated above that builders 50 would be competitive in the 70 CVT class as would his 70 in the 90 Mod class when comparing numbers.

All dynos are slightly different but that would be a very large % off, my dyno is in line with most reputable dyno's in our sport. A decent way to tell how close or far a dyno is, is to get some stock numbers from the owner ie bone stock drr, 450r, yfz and so on.

Remember a dyno is just a tool so as stated above go by the increase shown on the same dyno with your bike before and after mods. Just blurting out bigger than normal numbers will always get the type of attention that you see in this thread.

[djdfairchild]

could you cobra or dyno guys tell me, if the cobra 50 is putting out 17hp, is it only putting it out at a very small range of rpm? and is there any torque behind that power. the way i see a ss working is it is only in its powerband a short time. all the rest of the time, like take off its building upto the powerband, its like my mini van making 285hp its only doing at a rpm that we never see and theres no torque or power behind it.
i'm with everyone else, i have a 70 thats not super strong but good, and the 70ss's i've ran against can't beat it low end or top end. so where is all the hp going? somewere in the power band you should see the hp advantage over my mid teens hp.
ive also ran my 2008 50cc limited drr again not real strong against 50 prod. cobra's and they are marginally faster. and thats on small tracks were the ss is a not at that much of a disadvantage
i'm not saying those hp #'s are right or wrong, just want to know why they don't seem to see it on the ground.

[desratt]

yea the drr's have a"tranny" with unlimited gears. so allways keeping at max hp . if tuned right.
single speed is in peak hp for a window of time.
can't figure out why worcs is so scared of cobra's.

[jandjracing]

Originally posted by desratt
just curious what do 50's and 70's dyno at??

I had a stock cobra 50 which dyno'ed at 9.9 hp. Bolted on a Trackside pipe with absolutely no changes and dyno'ed at 11.74.

This was on the dyno at Trackside performance-

[nyates450]

Numbers maybe on the high side as they are not from the rear wheels. They are taken from the sprocket.
It does make power over a very good range of revs. At the race last night they combined the 70 and 90-125 classes. Only thing to holeshot it was a raptor 125 and she finished second behind it.
In the 50 class it has a 80% holeshot rate over a grissom motor. Its all over after that as the grissom has a much more experienced rider. It would have been a good race between him and the raptor.

[gistmarrs]

I think the Raptor 125 stock is only about 8 Hp and a fairly well tuned one gets up to 11 Hp. For how heavy they are, I'm surprised that all of the cobra's didn't smoke it.

[djdfairchild]

i was thinking the same thing, 11 to 12 hp out of the raptor was really good. my 70cvt will stomp a raptor 125. To me a raptor 125 to the holeshot means everything was pretty slow, the raptor even had to shift. was this mx or cc? i guess if everything was tuned for cc that would slow the cvt and ss down to last that long.

[bloodswet&gears]

Here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its a wonder or sport is still alive.

In person at races, everyone I met are easy to be around. But after seeing some things I see on here, Its obvious why our sport is dying.

I didn't read where the guy nyates450 said stock raptor.

Maybe they could post some dyno sheets for the haters and doubters.

I dont know for sure that cobra has 17hp, but I havent seen It beat on the holeshot much. I've been told by wise people that if you can't find anything good to say don't say anything at all.

[fastrnrik]

I'm not being negative, but in our experiences the Cobra should walk away from the that Raptor. Maybe different where they race? Down here, our stock Cobra 50, DRR 50 cvt, or mildly ported stock cylinder DRR 70 will literally run away from one. There's one that shows up to the local mx tracks and xc races. It has a pipe and whatever else they do to them. Cool looking bike, but it's a turd.

As far as Cobra hp... I don't know what they make, I've never dyno'd one. Heath said 16hp. He knows more about them than I do so who knows. I know when I bought our Cobra 50 it was bone stock and motor was fresh. It ran good, but the way it makes it's power is obviously way different than a cvt. My son prefers the cvt's. He was 6 seconds a lap faster last year at Loretta's on his DRR 50 in the 50 cvt class than on his Cobra 50 in 50 SR class, and the DRR had so/so suspension and just a mildly built motor. I upgraded the Cobra to Wiley 75 motor which so far seems to run strong, but he still doesn't like it. It's too peaky. Our RT 70 and my friends Polini Evo4 will smoke it. Unless he suddenly starts liking the Cobra, I'm done wasting time and money on the Cobra single speed motor. The bike can sit in the shop until it's time to build a shifter, and I'll stick a KX or RM motor in it. Just my $.02

[gistmarrs]

I wasn't doubting or hating. I just said that I was surprised.

My experience is that the Raptor is heavy and sluggish compared to the super light and quick Cobra's. The CVT's not needing to shift and being able to keep the bike at it's peak Hp throughout the race make them awefully hard to keep up with.

If someone out there that has made a Raptor that can keep up with the CVT's, that would be a great bike to have.

[djdfairchild]

i don't think anyone is trying to be negative or hurting the sport we are trying to get info to make a decision on, i was considering building a cobra to replace my cvt but i haven't seen the advantage in motor, only suspension. so i wanted to know if they are putting out that kind of hp why don't they show it on the holeshot, as we all see now the dyno #'s were on the motor not wheels, if nobody would have ask questions we wouldn't know that
im not doupting the cobra hp, im just saying the raptor 125 is not very fast, everyone nows that. even built they are not fast, they are however very reliable and i think make a great quad with some work. but when you say the onlything that beat you to the holeshot was a raptor 125, it makes me wonder how fast the cobra really is.

[racerdad80]

ive got to reply to this now. you have the difference of a 10 year old or so on the raptor who is jumping doubles and has raced for awhile compared to an 8 year old that has only been on the cobra 6 months and is not jumping doubles yet. She did hole shot him in the practice and stayed in front of him until he hit a double and almost ended up in her rear end. Their was a drr 50 in the class of the 70-90and125 also along with our cobra 50 that the person just bought from michigan thats supposed to be able to holeshot anything and our cobra holeshotted it everytime by a bunch and beat him by 1/2 a lap or more every race my daughter took 1st in the 70 class and 2nd in the 50 class. I am looking for my dyno paper now so I can upload it and our cobra is very torquey. This is getting a little ridiculous now anything someone can do to try smash on an 8 year old girls motor than kicks a lot of butts for not racing that long. Anyone we race against knows how good a motor we have hence the comments from them comes down to our daughter hasn't raced as long as most the kids she races against but shes coming up quick. Everyone wants to be better and have more than the next person and everyone is a know it all well I know what my motor puts out and thats all that matters and once she starts riding it to its full capacity everyone else will know also. I was answering the question asked and hardly anyone has answered his question but me and what I know don't know what other peoples motors put out so I don't argue about what other peoples motors do and don't put out just what mine does. And only a few people that commented have actually seen our motor so how can you say it is or isn't putting out the hp thats like saying I didn't go to the store last night you don't know if I did or didn't unless you saw me. and once we built our motor we haven't had a drr but maybe one holeshot our cobra she has holeshotted several cobras though also. I am not saying we got the baddest best motor that can't be beat not saying that just what we see happen at races we race at here we don't have many drr's that can beat a cobra. she used to race a drr50 she didn't like it after she got on the cobra so we sold it. We have seen several awesome drr's they can be beast if built right. we had motowoz on our drr and she didn't like them at all compared to the peps we have on her cobra now.

[djdfairchild]

so the raptor was holeshoting a 50 cobra, that makes a little more sence, see why people question stuff. to get the right info. i was assuming he was talking about the cobra 70.
and i don't know why you bring up trashing a rider, the only thing people are talking about is the holeshot not hitting doubles, when we talk holeshot you can't really figure in rider ability unless someone lets you know that the rider is young and inexperienced, now we all know more of the facts.
again you can show all the dyno sheets you want, i'm not arguing the dyno #'s i just wanted to know when the h.p. was made and do you ever really see the spot where it is made when you race, because those #'s are alot more than the 50 cvts put out. like the other posts arguing about dynos they are all different and looks like yours was taken at the crank not rear wheels.
im not trashing a rider or motor builder, im not a motor builder any motor you put out would be better than what i could do. i just want to know the facts of what people are saying so i can make a decision on what i want to do. sorry if asking questions about what people say is wrong of me.

[racerdad80]

nothing wrong with asking questions just sounded like everyone was bashing the motor because it didn't holeshot the raptor everytime. my daughter gets a little intimidated by being next to bigger bikes on the line and will let out of gas halfway off the line then get back into it something we are trying to work on. And I wish i knew the dyno #'s from the rear wheels myself because we run a different carb than everyone else and her quad is pretty snappy off the line or anytime she stabs the gas.

[djdfairchild]

i don't blame her one bit for being nervous next to bigger quads and more experienced riders, the things these kids do amazes me. and the fact that a 50 was even close to a raptor is impressive and she should be proud.
again i don't normally care about hp#'s, i watch to see what looks good on the track, thats why i was amazed that they put out those kind of numbers. i know cobra motors are bad, and the suspension is great, wish they were a cvt.

[desratt]

racer dad what carb are you running.
for us it isn't a matter of which is faster cause my son will have to either race against cvt's or single speeds they are no in the same class. was just curious if I would be making him alot slower in his ability.
I hope I don't get in trouble for inciting a riot here.

[racerdad80]

we r running a stage 6 21mm cnc flatslide carb with a power jet. Its the new stage 6 carbs not the old one. After our mechanic tunned it right its really snappy off the line and in corners it has alot of bottom end torque. Our daughter rode her drr harder than she did the cobra but was always faster on the cobra so we sold the drr and stuck her on just the cobra so she could get used to it because they are completely different according to her it was hard for her to switch back and forth so once she got comfortable riding the cobra she loved it she loved the suspension of the cobra to even the stock suspension compared to the motowoz of her drr. Which we now have peps and she has started jumping and attempting doubles since we got them 3 weeks ago.

[fastrnrik]

I wasn't saying anything about your rider. I was just saying what we have seen in our area. It's hard to compare "which bike is faster" when it all depends on the rider anyway. My comparisons with Cobra vs cvt are based on our own experiences with our bikes and my rider, who is good rider and will wring one out.
In our area, and on our tracks, the cvt's will kill the Cobra's. For example, a few weeks ago I watched my friends 8 yr old son on his Apex with Polini Evo4 70 cvt out run a national Cobra 70 single speed who was in FL practicing. This was on a 1.5 mile MX track.
Additionally, at Loretta's last year, the 50cvt champinon and the 50 SR champion were consistently within 2 seconds per lap of each other with the 50 cvt being faster. I would have loved to see those two kids race each other.

I actually like the Cobra. It's a better chassis by far. We had a few cocktails the other night and almost started hacking on ours to put a RT70 cvt motor in it, but common sense prevailed LOL
I am going to keep making my son ride it with the big bore motor until he likes it dammit LOL.
Also, in our area there are only "stock appearing" cvt classes. Any Cobra has to race in a "mini mod" class which is all good riders on 2fast's, Malossi big bores, Polini Evo 70, and RT70. My hope is to get our Wiley 75 motor dialed in and see how it really stacks up.

[racerdad80]

if your talking about lane baird on the cobra 70 in florida practicing he lives down the road from us they tried to get us to come down there to practice with them but our daughter was racing for points here.

[fastrnrik]

Yes that's who it was.

[chris grissom]

I have built the national champions engines in the 50 and 70 ss the last four years in a row thanks to very good riders and very good tuners. Numbers are in the 14 to 15 for 50's and 17 to 18 70ss at the rear wheel. Hope this helps.
Chris Grissom

[machwon]

It would be very interesting to see a dyno sheet of a 15 hp 50cc cobra. Care to share any of your dyno runs, 50, 70 or 80+cc?

[desratt]

I've been repeatedly told a good drr 70 will dyno over 20 is this bs?

[don bassani]

Yes

[desratt]

What's a true number for a well built drr 50 and 70?

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by desratt
I've been repeatedly told a good drr 70 will dyno over 20 is this bs?

Absolutely


Originally posted by desratt
What's a true number for a well built drr 50 and 70?

Describe "well built"

[desratt]

I dunno the top national builds.

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by desratt
I dunno the top national builds.

Not sure you'll get too many of us to come off current "top national build" numbers but in 2008 when we raced the EDT National Series our Malossi 70's made 17 and some change hp and Won nearly every holeshot and won every single moto/heat/main, This very same motor motored my son to a 3rd place over all finish at the Red Bud MX National in 2010.

The 70s are not a whole lot further than this today number wise (on my dyno) but they are faster.

[don bassani]

404 dad is correct,our national built Hetrick 70 made just over 17 HP . 20 HP sounds like a bunch of bull **** !!!