Wheels and tires and gearing [Archive]

bigdaddy77

12-20-2011, 10:54 PM

Ok guys we got 2 Pitsters we are building for this coming season . One is stock suspension , fast flex bars and a Firepower V2 head 125cc motor . This is our practice / cross country quad. The other is a full blown motocross build with Toms Atvfourplay suspension and bars. The motor is a Takegawa 4valve built by Firepower. My questions are what tire combinations are you guys running for motocross and cross country. Brands and sizes would be very helpful. Second what is best gearing for again cross country and motocross. Just trying to get as much input as I can. We are on a limited time frame with me working a bunch of hours and racing indoor short track.
Also since maximum rpm is out of the beadlock wheels what are some other affordable options? Thanks again guys for all your help.

bigdaddy77

12-28-2011, 08:16 PM

No one has anything to share? Really , no one. I know there are riders out there running more than the stock setup. Nobody wants to share what tires and what gearing set up they have. All we are looking for is help in starting in the right direction. Maybe you have input on what didn't work the best. Come on fellas ! I'm sure there are me people out there besides me who would like a little help. I know 37 people have reviewed this post and no replies. Thanks Brian

miniquaddad90

12-29-2011, 09:53 AM

We race built TRX90's which are basically same as Pitster.

We run Maxxis M940 18X9X8 for both XC and MX. Super light, pretty durable along with Razr fronts 19-20" depending

Also the Kenda Kutter XC 18x8x8 are great for the rough, rocky, muddy XC races too

Gearing on our FPM motor is usually 14/48 for XC & MX but sometimes will run 15/48 depending on track.

We mainly race XC, only play around with the local MX stuff

bigdaddy77

12-29-2011, 05:54 PM

That's the kind of info I'm looking for . Thank you ! The problem I'm having is finding a 7" wide bead lock wheel. Has anyone run a 18x8x8 on a 8x8 beadlock?
Also anyone run the ITP Quadcross 18x8x8 tire?

miniquaddad90

12-30-2011, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by bigdaddy77
That's the kind of info I'm looking for . Thank you ! The problem I'm having is finding a 7" wide bead lock wheel. Has anyone run a 18x8x8 on a 8x8 beadlock?
Also anyone run the ITP Quadcross 18x8x8 tire?

Your welcome, glad I can help!
8" wide wheel prob not gonna work too well with a 8" wide tire. We run 8X6" and 8X7" non-beadlock wheels.

zach R 7x

12-30-2011, 08:33 AM

When we had the 4 stroker motor in our pister, we ran a 13/46, then changed later to 14/48. The 13 was too low of a gear ratio,reved out to fast and had to shift alot more, I would start with the 14/48 combo.
We have since made our pister into a cr 90 mod.

We ran the quadcross and the 940's on the rear. Liked them both, but the 940' are alittle taller and wider. My son says the grip harder also.

Good luck, hope this helps you out!

Tim

Ride1Rob

12-30-2011, 11:44 AM

We ran14/43 for gearing :devil: . Also had the Maximal 940's.

bigdaddy77

12-30-2011, 06:11 PM

Ordered a set of 940's last night. Bought a set of 8x8 ITP bead locks used at a good price. Went with the 940's because of being 9" wide. That takes care of the cross country quad now I need wheels and tires for the mx quad. Looking for 4-1 offset fronts and 8x7 rears . Would like bead locks all the way around but not totally necessary . More for looks than need. I want black wheels but can't find a 8x7 standard wheel In black. Thanks again for the help

Ride1Rob

12-31-2011, 06:00 AM

Go to RockyMountian and look up GForce wheels. They sell a 8 inch wheel that our 940's mounted to perfectly. Come in black and aluminum colors. They're Honda bolt pattern and are a XC tire but we used them for MX. It's a very light wheel also. As you can see they mount and fit very well.
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2541/62875895.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/62875895.jpg/)

zach R 7x

12-31-2011, 11:25 AM

Rob, gotta say... I have seen allot of those extremes over the years, but never one that nice!

miniquaddad90

01-02-2012, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
We ran14/43 for gearing :devil: . Also had the Maximal 940's.

Did you still have any low-end with that combo? We tried a 16/48 but it was a turd geared like that.... maybe the 14frt helps keep the torque?

Ride1Rob

01-02-2012, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by zach R 7x
Rob, gotta say... I have seen allot of those extremes over the years, but never one that nice!
Thanx! After much research and mods it was as bulletproof as you can get.

Originally posted by miniquaddad90
Did you still have any low-end with that combo? We tried a 16/48 but it was a turd geared like that.... maybe the 14frt helps keep the torque?
Oh yeah! But it was a $1200 engine that was modified from the tranny to the head. None of that was headwork by the way other than a cam setup and oversized valves sent from Firepower. The head was ported/polished by me. That thing pulled holeshots against 2fasts, Blasters, Raptor250's, and 300ex's. But with only a 4 speed tranny it didn't have the legs to run with the bigger bikes on long stretches. A 16t front is way too big for the front. Especially if you don't have the HP to turn it.:devil:

miniquaddad90

01-02-2012, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
Thanx! After much research and mods it was as bulletproof as you can get.

Oh yeah! But it was a $1200 engine that was modified from the tranny to the head. None of that was headwork by the way other than a cam setup and oversized valves sent from Firepower. The head was ported/polished by me. That thing pulled holeshots against 2fasts, Blasters, Raptor250's, and 300ex's. But with only a 4 speed tranny it didn't have the legs to run with the bigger bikes on long stretches. A 16t front is way too big for the front. Especially if you don't have the HP to turn it.:devil:

We too have a FPM motor, not a big as what you had, lots a goodies though, but we didnt run it all year. Too many other "bugs" to work out. We will see very soon what she's capable of pullin

Ride1Rob

01-02-2012, 10:42 AM

I really wanted to see what that thing would do with the v2 head and the correct size carb. Those would have been bolt on 5hp over what we had. We went through the bugs and fixes as well. Once we were dialed in it was dialed all the way in.

bigdaddy77

01-02-2012, 07:11 PM

Hey Rob you guys were running a 150 cc motor correct? We had a stock 150 Pitster motor , the gpx style motor and that thing pulled good till the tranny locked up. I wish they would let us run a 150 instead of the 125 , most of the heads are set up for the bigger motors.
Miniquaddad is that a honda motor FPM built for you or a pitbike motor? And what kind of quirks did you guys have with the motor?
I'm really hoping the 2 motors of ours Terry has right know make some HP! The v2 head motor ran decsent with the big cam in it but we are going to a takegawa decomp sd15 for better lower end. That's going in the xc/practice quad. And then we are getting a 4 valve takegawa head and cylinder on Pitster lower end. We have high hopes for this motor with a custom intake. Terry feels it's going to be a low end torque monster. I hope so . If you guys have any other suggestions I sure do appreciate the input.

miniquaddad90

01-02-2012, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by bigdaddy77
Hey Rob you guys were running a 150 cc motor correct? We had a stock 150 Pitster motor , the gpx style motor and that thing pulled good till the tranny locked up. I wish they would let us run a 150 instead of the 125 , most of the heads are set up for the bigger motors.
Miniquaddad is that a honda motor FPM built for you or a pitbike motor? And what kind of quirks did you guys have with the motor?
I'm really hoping the 2 motors of ours Terry has right know make some HP! The v2 head motor ran decsent with the big cam in it but we are going to a takegawa decomp sd15 for better lower end. That's going in the xc/practice quad. And then we are getting a 4 valve takegawa head and cylinder on Pitster lower end. We have high hopes for this motor with a custom intake. Terry feels it's going to be a low end torque monster. I hope so . If you guys have any other suggestions I sure do appreciate the input.

TRX90 motor with 125cc, manual clutch, daytona head, and a few other goodies... No real "quirks" with his motor. Got it back, put it in, and she RIPPED!!! However, my skinny daughter couldnt pull start my motors, so Terry and I figured a kicker was the way to go. BUT... His motor had A LOT more compression than any I ever built and she couldnt kick it all that well.... So back to the drawing board and switched everything over to a TRX90 E-start setup, with true Honda OEM cases to stay legal. Now we cant seem to get a good intake to clear over the starter and under the tank. With our dual a-arm set up we cant rotate the intake to point forward either. So custom intake or super tall and long intake which Terry is telling me is not a good idea. Im assuming the motor wont have a ton of vacuum to pull good velocity through the supppppper long intake set up i've came up with. SO, i dont know what im gonna do quite yet.... Ive got another month or 2 to figure it out i guess:confused:

miniquaddad90

01-02-2012, 07:34 PM

Just thought I would mention.... dyno numbers are what they are but we got 11.8 on my motor at the back tires with a 24mm carb just under 13 leaned out, scary lean.... Terry's setup made my motor seem almost like a piped stocker..lol! 26mm Mikuni though

GDFP motors RUN!!

I guessing an EZ 15-16.5ish but theyre only numbers on our local dyno, good compairsion though

Who is making your "custom intake"? pics?

bigdaddy77

01-02-2012, 08:22 PM

Terry is suppose to be making the intake . If he doesn't I'll do it my self. I cut and rewelded the v2 head intake. No one makes a rear facing intake for the v2 . I havnt even seen the 4 valve motor. I bought it from Gary Rozzell and he sent it to Terry. It had a burnt crank bearing. Gary thought it needed tweeking any way. I want it set up a little different because my son just turned 8 and isn't the caliber of rider as Christian . We've had the same starting issue as you even with the kicker motors. That's why we put in decomp cams. Don't know what the results will be. We have a Xtreme flat tracker with piranha motor and head work by Janssen and I can't hardly kick it. If he kills it I have to go start it. Spun out once at a tt race with a half of lap lead . Spun on the last corner of second lap. By the time we got it started he was almost lapped. Caught up to the others but ran out of laps. That motor is wicked but it is running a kitaco outer rotor kit. We do know it desinagrates pistons at 13,000 rpm.
Is the V2 head and takegawa decomp cam not a option or wha about takegawa r+ superhead? Electric start is nice especially in the woods. We are going to run some this year and it makes me nervous about not being able to see him the whole time. But I have more confidence in him and I've calmed down some.

Ride1Rob

01-03-2012, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by bigdaddy77
Hey Rob you guys were running a 150 cc motor correct? We had a stock 150 Pitster motor , the gpx style motor and that thing pulled good till the tranny locked up. I wish they would let us run a 150 instead of the 125 , most of the heads are set up for the bigger motors.
Miniquaddad is that a honda motor FPM built for you or a pitbike motor? And what kind of quirks did you guys have with the motor?
I'm really hoping the 2 motors of ours Terry has right know make some HP! The v2 head motor ran decsent with the big cam in it but we are going to a takegawa decomp sd15 for better lower end. That's going in the xc/practice quad. And then we are getting a 4 valve takegawa head and cylinder on Pitster lower end. We have high hopes for this motor with a custom intake. Terry feels it's going to be a low end torque monster. I hope so . If you guys have any other suggestions I sure do appreciate the input.

We had two options.... To run a 150 with race head, better valves, better cam, and more internal work or go bigger on the bore (192) with a rebuilt customized tranny. The bigger bore was cheaper and we could tone it down to make sure it wasn't too much for him. Then we could add more HP if he needed it later. We just weren't sure how long it would hold in a quad. Turns out it was bulletproof. The class we were in was an outlaw class with no limits and there were cvt's as big as 118's on the gate. Even heard one was pushing 128cc's but it never finished a MOTO. The setup we ran was a cheaper option than the other and we actually achieved the same HP that we would have got on the more expensive 150. We had more lowend torque but the 150 would have been a better revver to accelerate with the 2fasts from mid to top.

bigdaddy77

01-03-2012, 06:20 PM

I just wish the AMA would let the 4 strokes run 150cc motors. Probably will never happen with yamaha being competitive on the 125 raptor. Too much coporate money.
Rob I know Jam excelled at running the manual clutch shifter quad but that is the exception not the norm for young kids. I built our first Xtreme off of yours but de decided to switch to pitsters because of the availability of parts and thought it was a better machine. We have alot of practice ahead of because the Pitster just had a higher top heavy feel to it . He was a lot faster through the corners on his Xtreme.
Any how I wanted something he wouldn't out grow as fast. He turned 8 in October and is 4'9" and 82 pounds. But I just don't see how parents can say the 150 is unfair versus a 90 2 stroke cvt or cobra . I would like to see some of the kids running cvt get on a manual clutch bike and see how well they do . Espeacially the kids 9 and under. I know it's our choice to run the shifter but thats the way quads and bikes should be made. We started with the semiauto and know all 3 quads are manual clutch. We trail ride a lot when time permits and its so awesome to be out with my buddies and have them be in awe at how well Adam can run a manual clutch quad. Hell he did better last time than some of the grown ups. Any ways it seems to be it would be fairer and easy to build a 150 instead of tuning every thing down to 125cc . That's the way I see it. These pitbike motors and hp upgrades are all set up for the 150's and larger. It would save Terry money on epoxy!

quadpoppy7

01-03-2012, 06:45 PM

We're looking forward to Terry's Big Bore setup. Should come about same size as Jam's with the V-2. Trying to save Terry some epoxy. LOL! Christian is looking forward to it!

bigdaddy77

01-03-2012, 07:09 PM

Wow Gary you got your own user name now? I'm sure that motor will rip . Just got off the phone with a guy near us that owns Titan Motorsports. He builds pro quad race motors and parts. He also does some pitbike work and has a dyno. Once we get our motors back he is going to do tunning on them . Can't wait . I'm not as worried about max HP as I am about just having them jetted and running perfect.

Ride1Rob

01-03-2012, 08:43 PM

You're right about the manual setup vs cvt setup. Jam was ahead of the game to be so young on his shifting. Even when we got on dirtbikes he continued to pull holeshots. He's been shifting since he was 6 so he's pretty much a veteran at it now. I think that's a lot why he was able to outrun the cvt's into the 1st turn. When a parent made the comment that he would put his kid on the Apex shifter bc he was upset we weren't being kicked out of the class I told him "Do it and Jam would have a field day". He admitted it's harder for a kid to ride a shifter but still wanted us out of the class. His kid was sponsored by GForce and GForce has told many that the Pitster isn't a good race machine. It'll cost these companies thousands for parents to swap over to these lil thumpers.

From what I've heard the Hondas can't be modded up to 150. So I'm not sure if that's why AMA hasn't made the shifter class those cc's. But I bet if they did there would be a lot of interest. It's up to you guys to stay the course and continue to kick down the doors for these thumper engines. Hardly anyone thought it was possible til they began to see our bike run. These little engines are the best kept secrets in mini quad racing and there are those that don't want them to succeed.

bigdaddy77

01-04-2012, 12:41 AM

Rob I totally agree with you. The only knock so far on the Pitster is the top heavy feel and how the quad is set up for a larger rider. But that's the reason we went to because Adam is going to be a big kid. I'm 6'6" and his mom is 6'2" . He is already a foot taller than 90% of the kids in 2nd grade.
I'm hoping once we get this quad all set up and the FPM motor going it will he can rip through the corners.
Got any ideas how to work with him to get through the corners better. Any drills or things we can do. He not afraid to air it out or hammer through the whoops ! He is just a little slow on tight corners. But on his flat track Xtreme he holds the throttle pinned around a 1/5 mile track. And thats running 17/33 gearing and turning 10000 rpm . Also running go cart tires front and rear.
I imagine its just going to take seat time but I didn't know if you had any ideas what to tell him or what to practice. I'll try and shoot some video this spring and post it so you professional racer dads can give us some pointers !

Ride1Rob

01-04-2012, 02:49 AM

The bike has to be setup properly. As you know even with the Xtreme's wide base the geometry of the bike is completely off in stock form. I knew what I wanted but no one would build anything for me. ChassisInc. was the only one that dove into the project and was excited about doing it. He did measurements and we did a setup and ran some testing to see how it handled. That set was better but still off by a tad. The next setup was everything we had wanted to correct in the front end geometry lift the bike up more than an inch in the front. It also worked great with the inch longer Elka's we wanted to use. Once we did the same with the rear the Xtreme handled like a dream compared to stock form. The Pitster on the other hand is totally opposite than the Xtreme. The first time I saw it I felt that it sat too high and the rider may have issues with lot of roll. That can be corrected with a longer axle (maybe an inch longer on each side) and wider width in the front. Our extreme was only alil over 46' wide but I would think the Pitster should be good at 48'. If the rider isn't confident and feels that the bike is going to roll he/she is less likely to be aggressive in the corners. SETUP SETUP SETUP!!! I know Tom has suspension for the Pitster and would think that corrects that issue.

bigdaddy77

01-04-2012, 06:39 PM

Rob our mx Pitster has Toms suspension front and rear plus handle bars. Right know its almost 50" wide in front with 3+2 wheels. Ordered a set off 4+1 for it . Tom swears they will help it corner. Will see. Says it get the weight more centered on the wheels.
I think right know it just the larger feel and it being a little top heavy has slowed him down. Wants he gets some seat time he should get the handle of it. He actually runs good on his preproduction stock Pitster . We put a set of 2010 stock a arms on it . They widened the front by like 3 " . Here's is the weird then the preproduction rear axle is 4" narrow than what they sell now. It's on my list of things to replace. Building one quad is hard enough let alone 3 . But by spring we will have a full blown mx Pitster. The xc/practice Pitster. And we already have the flat tracker Xtreme built and racing this winter.