New Honda Patents

[sammy5x]

The new Honda ATV chassis...

http://ip.com/patent/US7954835

[310ESR]

By the looks of these pics and info this is going to be totally different. I'm curious how the fuel tank on the left and the radiator on the right is going to work out.

[Black Sheep]

A little late to the party lol...

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=479447&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

[brewster426]

What's up with the tabs on the back of the frame. #57 I think.

[hilltop_83]

it looks like it could be the linkage mount. i could be wrong though

[desratt]

Looks like the patent was paid for in 2008 so I wouldn't get my hopes up to high. But I love it.

[piejazz96]

patent applied for in 2008, made on June 7, 2011

[ThePhantomRider]

Hmmm, where have I seen this before? Oh yeah, I believed I told everyone over 2 years ago that the new 450R would be radically different, complete and delayed because of the economy and surplus of existing units.

Now an intrepid person uncovered this nugget, kudos to you, and thank you for verifying what I already knew.

I hope the economic climate makes it possible for Honda to reveal this baby to the general public.

Till then, we wait.

TPR

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Hmmm, where have I seen this before? Oh yeah, I believed I told everyone over 2 years ago that the new 450R would be radically different, complete and delayed because of the economy and surplus of existing units.

Now an intrepid person uncovered this nugget, kudos to you, and thank you for verifying what I already knew.

I hope the economic climate makes it possible for Honda to reveal this baby to the general public.

Till then, we wait.

TPR

ah yes, but which one is it ;) there are actually two different machines in those patents.

[89trx250r]

Yea i was thinking that it couldnt just be 1 quad but then i just thought i was crazy...thanks for making me feel sane again :)

[ThePhantomRider]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
ah yes, but which one is it ;) there are actually two different machines in those patents.

Now THAT would give me away.... LOL


TPR

[kono993]

i almost still can't believe that honda is making a new 450r let alone 2 differnt ones...

[89trx250r]

To be fair those are just designs and patents nothing set in stone about them even making 1 let alone 2

[desratt]

Could be for a straight axle 700

[motofreak2772]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Hmmm, where have I seen this before? Oh yeah, I believed I told everyone over 2 years ago that the new 450R would be radically different, complete and delayed because of the economy and surplus of existing units.

Now an intrepid person uncovered this nugget, kudos to you, and thank you for verifying what I already knew.

I hope the economic climate makes it possible for Honda to reveal this baby to the general public.

Till then, we wait.

TPR
You're crazy.. You make all these claims and act like you called it two years ago but you obviously do not know what you're talking about. You said it was finished two years ago... Well why would they patent two different designs in 2011?? Clearly they are not done with the quad if they are messing with different designs. So you are wrong about it being done. And you made these claims two years ago.. They patented these things this year, so that's wrong again. Anyone could have made the vague claims you did and say they were right. Maybe you do have some connection to Honda but I don't think you're as informed as you believe.

[trxredrider]

So when is the release date of this new quad? My employer holds a ton of patents - and most of the patent ideas are not in any finished products.

I'll agree that it was great that the information was found, but until I see a confirmed release date from Honda on something... It's pointless to assume a new machine will hit the market.

[Buttermilk]

Looks to me like Honda is working on a new 450R... AND a new 250cc machine...

Patents are applied for and then granted
after the patent office has time to study the designs and confirm that no patent infringements are made, as well as make sure no one else is working on similar designs.... as well as confirm the patent applications are worthy of being issued a patent (ie - a "new invention" that actually does something different/better than a current patented design).

Hence the reason for the different dates on the patents.


It seems to me those are clearly two different machines, with the more conventional frame being a smaller machine. I'd expect this one to be a 250. The other one a 450.... :)

Regards,

Rog

[desratt]

I hope one is a 250* as my kids are approaching that class

[huntertaylor98]

I bet the new Honda would destroy my friend's ktm

[ah665]

Originally posted by huntertaylor98
I bet the new Honda would destroy my friend's ktm
Based on what? lol. Cause it's new? Not trying to call you out but I don't see how you can look at a diagram and judge how good it is. Motor-wise, the CRF's are on the mellow side compared to the KTM bikes, so there is nothing here to go by.

I always get amused when people see something new and hype it beyond belief. A new 450R will be awesome, no doubt, but if a guy is beating you week in and week out at the track on his Yamaha (or any other quad), chances are that hes still gonna beat you if you get on the newest, most hyped quad if/when it comes out. ..keep that in mind.

[piejazz96]

If there is speculation of a new 250, would it be based off of the crf250f or their 229 they have always had?

Also would it replace the ever so popular 300ex in the racing scene?

Just wonderin

[huntertaylor98]

I just wanted Him to see it and get mad but it's going to be a great bike

[ah665]

True. I'm sure many people are gonna be at a point where they will be looking to see how good it is and whether or not they want to invest in a new machine...myself included. But at the same time, doesn't mean hanging on to your current ride is a bad idea either. I'm sure like any other 450, it'll still need some upgrades to be truely race-ready. Should be a great starting point though, hopefully.

[ThePhantomRider]

Originally posted by motofreak2772
You're crazy.. You make all these claims and act like you called it two years ago but you obviously do not know what you're talking about. You said it was finished two years ago... Well why would they patent two different designs in 2011?? Clearly they are not done with the quad if they are messing with different designs. So you are wrong about it being done. And you made these claims two years ago.. They patented these things this year, so that's wrong again. Anyone could have made the vague claims you did and say they were right. Maybe you do have some connection to Honda but I don't think you're as informed as you believe.

I'm busted...listen, I never take offence to anyone questioning my information, I can't back it up for a variety of reasons, however, if you were to review my history, including the Honda you'll see that I am usually on the money. Furthermore, if you look at the dates listed, yes, PAF is 2011, however, there are previous inquiries listed that predate my information, AND as I stated 2 years ago, while the 450r was complete and waiting delivery but held back due to excess supply and a fragile economy not likely to properly support a new model quad, there was a very high probability that there would be further enhancements made to the quad by release date if the waiting period lasted an extended period of time.

You have every right to doubt me, but if you look at this site and others, I called nearly every aspect of the DS 450, including the fact that it was originally designed as a 250 two stroke only to have a 450 stuffed in at the last minute...I was the only one who called the Raptor 700r months before it was released....I called the Kawasaki using a new alloy chassis before anyone (that was based on the fact they had 3 Cannondale Frames shipped to Japan during development) not to mention the Can Am Renegade and Side By Side I announced years in advance.

Still, I have been wrong, I knew that Kawasaki and Suzuki were working on true sport 250's but benched those plans because of the economy...

Just hang on, you'll get your new 450r and it's gonna be a treat!

TPR

[B.C.#11TRX400EX]

TPR u no your stuff and u predicted that the new 450r will have an alluminum and etc. and by the looks of those diagrams your right again, idk why people on here say your carzy or watever cause you've been right every time so im gonna belive you when u predict somethin haha

Blake

[ThePhantomRider]

Thanks Blake, but really, I don't get upset if someone questions me. Some people know my history and record, but some don't and I can understand where some think I'm some kind of know it all blowhard who really doesn't know anything.

It's OK for people to question me, and it's OK when I'm wrong. I simply have a real good track record on these things and try to pass on what I know to the people.

I mean really, the DS450 started life as a DS400, more closely related to the 400ex than anything and they were working on a twin cylinder two stroke to take up where the Banshee left off when it went offline. They YFZ changed the game and so Can-Am went to work on the DS250 Two Stroke. EVERYTHING designed on the DS450 was meant to be with the 250 motor. It was a 300 pound beast but we know how that story ended.

I mean when the President of Can-Am's ATV division is inquiring about who I am and how do I know what I know....it makes for fun times. \

You'll see in the next 3 years a Honda, a substantial reworking of the LTR and a mild makeover on the KFX.

TPR

[motofreak2772]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
I'm busted...listen, I never take offence to anyone questioning my information, I can't back it up for a variety of reasons, however, if you were to review my history, including the Honda you'll see that I am usually on the money. Furthermore, if you look at the dates listed, yes, PAF is 2011, however, there are previous inquiries listed that predate my information, AND as I stated 2 years ago, while the 450r was complete and waiting delivery but held back due to excess supply and a fragile economy not likely to properly support a new model quad, there was a very high probability that there would be further enhancements made to the quad by release date if the waiting period lasted an extended period of time.

You have every right to doubt me, but if you look at this site and others, I called nearly every aspect of the DS 450, including the fact that it was originally designed as a 250 two stroke only to have a 450 stuffed in at the last minute...I was the only one who called the Raptor 700r months before it was released....I called the Kawasaki using a new alloy chassis before anyone (that was based on the fact they had 3 Cannondale Frames shipped to Japan during development) not to mention the Can Am Renegade and Side By Side I announced years in advance.

Still, I have been wrong, I knew that Kawasaki and Suzuki were working on true sport 250's but benched those plans because of the economy...

Just hang on, you'll get your new 450r and it's gonna be a treat!

TPR
Oh, I'm sorry. I did not realize I was dealing with Nostradamus here.

[B.C.#11TRX400EX]

Haha thats funny but he's kinda like nostradomus but he knows its true

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by motofreak2772
You're crazy.. You make all these claims and act like you called it two years ago but you obviously do not know what you're talking about. You said it was finished two years ago... Well why would they patent two different designs in 2011?? Clearly they are not done with the quad if they are messing with different designs. So you are wrong about it being done. And you made these claims two years ago.. They patented these things this year, so that's wrong again. Anyone could have made the vague claims you did and say they were right. Maybe you do have some connection to Honda but I don't think you're as informed as you believe.


If you look closely at the designs one is a 450 and the other is most likly a 250. So there are not two seperate designs for one machine but, two designs for two machines.

Also the patents were GRANTED in 2011 but they were APPLIED for in 2007, 2008, and 2009 which would be around the same time frame TPR made his predictions.

The irony of all this was I posted these patents to prove TPR was right with what he predicted two years ago.

[ThePhantomRider]

You really know something, part of how I come up with this information is through well established relastionships in the industry with people who know that I never, ever give sources or detailed information, only overviews unless otherwise allowed.

There is however an element of speculation using data and information gathered from all aspects of a particular manufacturer's line up. You can, in many cases, see the future of an ATV by looking at it's 2 wheeled counterpart. Engines are obvious, but they (Honda) have worked with the idea of adding a steering damper to the 450 just like the MX Bike. Will it be on the production unit? You'll have to see. Again it's been like 2 years since I posted my info, and I've been out of the loop a bit more than normal, BUT, if you were to ask someone willing to speak from American Honda if the delay in releasing a new 450 has been the inventory and economy, they will state an emphatic "Yes"

Nostredamus? No....but I am pretty good at what I do.

BTW, motofreak....you'd have loved to seen the 500cc twin Can-Am tested at Glen Helen way back in the early 2000's...what a beast!!

And if you ever get the chance, ask Jeremy Schell just how much different the DS450 was when it had the 250 motor in it. He was whipping it like no quad you ever seen.

TPR

[LTR450_#67]

I could possibly see the reworking of the LTR. Arctic Cat just bought back their shares from Suzuki.....$79.3 million

[les70]

TPR,
not to get too off subject, but do you know or can speculate a new 2-stroke sport quad in the future? i think it might be a possibility with all of the new clean 2-stroke technology seen in other applications.

[B.C.#11TRX400EX]

Idk wat they think but I think2 strokes are long gone u:(

[fx4pitrone]

Yea, Im curious to hear all that you know about the 2 stroke that Can-am was going to put in the DS.... Was is an sdi or direct inject e-tec type motor? Very curious and excited about this.... I never understood why they didnt come out w/ that 2 stroke engine tech they have available in their outboards and sleds?

I had an sdi sled, and now have the e-tec and they are both fantastic motors!

Could it still happen??

[LTR450_#67]

Originally posted by fx4pitrone
Yea, Im curious to hear all that you know about the 2 stroke that Can-am was going to put in the DS.... Was is an sdi or direct inject e-tec type motor? Very curious and excited about this.... I never understood why they didnt come out w/ that 2 stroke engine tech they have available in their outboards and sleds?

I had an sdi sled, and now have the e-tec and they are both fantastic motors!

Could it still happen??

I think it was carbed. Good thing you have a 600 etec. The 800 wouldnt make half the life the 6 would.

[K-Dub]

The patent says double wishbone suspension. Now the only front ATV suspension Ive seen that is double wishbone is the Leagers Protrax, a hiem joint or ball joint isnt a considered a wish bone. So is what Honda has a type of protrax?

[MX450]

they all have "double-wishbone" front suspension 300ex 400ex current 450r ect

[K-Dub]

How does the 300/400ex and 450R have double wishbone? They are single wishbone because the a arm is only wishbone where it connects to the frame and a ball joint on the other end. A double wishbone, the a arm has a wishbone shape at both ends, as stated above the only true double wishbone I have ever seen is the Protrax. The definition of double wishbone is that the a arm looks to have a wishbone at both ends.

[B.C.#11TRX400EX]

Surely Honda wont do that, they need to just change the motor, frame ,and lower it like Walsh's lowering kit, maybe make it a tad wider

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by K-Dub
How does the 300/400ex and 450R have double wishbone? They are single wishbone because the a arm is only wishbone where it connects to the frame and a ball joint on the other end. A double wishbone, the a arm has a wishbone shape at both ends, as stated above the only true double wishbone I have ever seen is the Protrax. The definition of double wishbone is that the a arm looks to have a wishbone at both ends. your right in the exact meaning ....but the term is also used to describe 2 arms shaped like wish bones, it might not be the correct term but its used by many to describe both situations including Honda...

the following is there exact words for the current 450r front end,straight from the Honda 450r brochure

"Independent double-wishbone with Showa® shocks, featuring adjustable spring-preload, rebound and compression-damping; 8.4 inches travel"

[MX450]

look on hondas website they all say double wishbone