North Carolina Law help needed ASAP!

[Doug10]

Guys im reaching out for some legal help here. I have called about everywhere and cannot find anything solid. Heres the situation.

I have a 4yr old that rides a 50cc atv and only rides on MX tracks, Sand drags, TT tracks. The only time we practice is on the race tracks etc...and we race races and my son is really good for his age.

My (@*#&$^& mother-in-law has been harrassing my wife now for about 2 weeks about how we are breaking North Carolina law by allowing our son to race. In 2005 North Carolina says that a child below 8 cannot ride at all. Says every child has to have a safety certificate, and that a 15 yr old can only ride a 90cc etc.....

It also says you cannot ride after sunset without headlights etc....

Now they run some pretty big ATV races in North Carolina and in the District 13. Where can I find something in writing/where can i call etc.....to prove to her once and for all that he can race on a race track. Hell, there are classes at the nationals and district level for 4-6 and 4-8yr olds (50 limited). I need help friends and I need it fast. I have called ATVA and they told me to call back in a week because they were busy. Meanwhile my mother-in-law has been calling AMA and they are telling her we shouldnt be breaking state law etc.... I hate to take what my kid loves to do away.

Doug

[LT80]

Every state has different rules.
Maybe the ATV Safety Institute. They (and the ATVA) have come out with a fitment standard for youths. ie: a child has to fit the machine.
It would seem that your rider can reach/use the controls and can sit on the seat with knee's bent.
That and safety equipment (helmet/boots/chest protector/etc) means more than any state law IMO.

So, does your %%$#$^%$ mother in law speed down the road with children in the car?
She break any other laws with the children around?
Could granny be endangering their lifes?
A zillion ways to get hurt out there and usually non of them happen with safety gear on.
Maybe she needs to look at a bigger picture.
I'm sure she's a fine granny and all but IMO, she's taking it a bit far.

At the races, we'd ask "where's Johnny this weekend?"
A broken bone from bicycles were the biggest answer.
Granny buy him a bike??? :D :D :devil:

[dewutfan]

Doug hate to break it to you but North Carolina has some of the most toughest rules when coming to atv's and under 15 yrs old and she is right.. But that being said alot of other states have no rules on the age limit thing on riding or racing.. and as for headlights and after dark that has nothing to do with him racing period.. tell momma-in-law quit reading things into things lol sorry but true.. that rule about headlights is for farm type atv's and around the house riding.. as for racing thats why alot of your racing for mini atv's arent ama type becuase of all the bull there but that doesnt mean it's wrong.. if so Sam of victory-sports would not have them in the indoor series because he isnt gonna take a chance of getting caught breaking the law and lose alot more then just that deal down there... as for the rules ans laws.. go to .....atvsafety.gov/state/northcarolina and there is the rules and law...hope this helps and good luck with mommy-in-law.

[Doug10]

dewutfan-There is no exception on the lights, now i realize that really means nothing in my situation, but the law clearly says NO ATV operation after dusk without headlights! I have not seen many atv's racing under the lights with headlights?!?

The farm stipulation is for min. age and everything else. If you use it for farm use, hunting, or trapping you are exempt.

Now there are TT Nationals in NC, District Races, and others that have classes for 4-8yr olds (limited) and 6-8 (production). If these are permitted to run, why can't we ride without fear of being a "Law" violater?

[dewutfan]

I hear what you are saying and i dont know the answer to that question.. i can tell you this i lived on the tenn/north carolina line for years and yes this law has been there but i have never heard of any one being fined or this law ever being inforced but if they are getting people like your in laws pushing there buttons they just might... i hope you get this worked out and like lt80 said in his post she cant be all perfect either.. i hope you keep that little guy on is bike and hope to see you guys at a race down the road... and call a local track owner in NC and see if they can shed some light on it for you also... good luck

[hanker]

I can tell you that most of the kids my son races against in EDT Nationals are from N.C.

[THARNESS]

I would find a nice way to tell mother-in-law to kiss it. You're the parent. Do what you think is correct and tell everyone else to stay out of it.

[selbygirl]

hay doug try contacting ama call them and ask to talk to the president , i have talked to them in the past and they wer very helpful ...we live near the ocean and in the summer there is a lot of trafic kids are allways getting hit by cars . i would rather see my kid get hurt from somthing he loves then from some jerk hitting him. plus look at all the kids who get hurt in football.,,, my mother use to feel the same way at first and i took her to a race now she is a 100% behind him. wen she sees that smile on her grandsons face its priceless.take care tommy

[fastrnrik]

Don't you live in Virginia? Tell her go pound sand! LOL

All jokes aside, Can you post the actual statute? The entire thing, not just an excerpt. Or a link to it? So we can read it completely....
I have no doubt there's a law like that on the books. Heck there's stupid laws for everything in every state. But there must be some language that exempts racing or closed course use? I say this because I can't imagine the promoters would be aware of it and schedule races with specific classes for kids anyway, especially with AMA sanctioned district races, SATVA, and the ATVA EDT nationals they have up there. They would be opening themselves up to a massive amount of liability that I just don't believe they would do.

Also, there is the matter of enforcing such a law. Do they actually issue citations for it? What is the penalty? I mean if your in laws p.iss & moan enough, is the local sheriff deputy wherever you race going to come give you a hard time?

[Doug10]

§ 20-4.01. Definitions.
North Carolina Laws
Unless the context requires otherwise, the following definitions apply throughout this
Chapter to the defined words and phrases and their cognates: (1c) All-Terrain Vehicle or ATV. – A
motorized off-highway vehicle designed to travel on three or four low-pressure tires, having a seat designed to be straddled by the operator and handlebars for steering control.
Part 10C. Operation of All-Terrain Vehicles.
§ 20-171.15. Age restrictions.
(a) It is unlawful for any parent or legal guardian of a person less than eight years of age to knowingly permit that person to operate an all-terrain vehicle.
(b) It is unlawful for any parent or legal guardian of a person less than 12 years of age to knowingly permit that person to operate an all-terrain vehicle with an engine capacity of 70 cubic centimeter displacement or greater.
(c) It is unlawful for any parent or legal guardian of a person less than 16 years of age to knowingly permit that person to operate an all-terrain vehicle with an engine capacity greater than 90 cubic centimeter displacement.
(d) It is unlawful for any parent or legal guardian of a person less than 16 years of age to knowingly permit that person to operate an all-terrain vehicle unless the person is under the continuous visual supervision of a person 18 years of age or older while operating the all-terrain vehicle.
(e) Subsections (b) and (c) of this section do not apply to any parent or legal guardian of a person born on or before August 15, 1997, who permits that person to operate an all-terrain vehicle and who establishes proof that the parent or legal guardian owned the all-terrain vehicle prior to August 15, 2005.

§ 20-171.19. Prohibited acts by owners and operators.
(a) No person shall operate an all-terrain vehicle unless the person wears eye protection and a safety helmet meeting United States Department of Transportation standards for motorcycle helmets.
alcohol, any controlled substance, or a prescription or nonprescription drug that impairs vision or motor coordination.
(d) No person shall operate an all-terrain vehicle in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger or cause injury or damage to any person or property.
(e) Except as otherwise permitted by law, no person shall operate an all-terrain vehicle on any public street, road, or highway except for purposes of crossing that street, road, or highway. (f) Except as otherwise permitted by law, no person shall operate an all-terrain vehicle at
anytime on an interstate or limited-access highway.
(g) No person shall operate an all-terrain vehicle during the hours of darkness, from one-half hour after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise and at anytime when visibility is reduced due to insufficient light or atmospheric conditions, without displaying a lighted headlamp and taillamp, unless the use of lights is prohibited by other applicable laws.
(b) No owner shall authorize an all-terrain vehicle to be operated contrary to this Part.
(c) No person shall operate an all-terrain vehicle while under the influence of

§ 20-110. When registration shall be rescinded.
(a) The Division shall rescind and cancel the registration of any vehicle which the Division shall determine is unsafe or unfit to be operated or is not equipped as required by law.
(b) The Division shall rescind and cancel the registration of any vehicle whenever the person to whom the registration card or registration number plates therefor have been issued shall make or permit to be made any unlawful use of the said card or plates or permit the use thereof by a person not entitled thereto.
(c) Repealed by Session Laws 1993, c. 440, s. 8.
(d) The Division shall rescind and cancel the certificate of title to any vehicle which has been erroneously issued or fraudulently obtained or is unlawfully detained by anyone not entitled to possession.
(e) and (f) Repealed by Session Laws 1993, c. 440, s. 8.
(g) The Division shall rescind and cancel the registration plates issued to a carrier of passengers or property which has been secured by such carrier as provided under G.S. 2050 when the license is being used on a vehicle other than the one for which it was issued or which is being used by the lessor-owner after the lease with such lessee has been terminated.
(h) The Division may rescind and cancel the registration or certificate of title on any vehicle on the grounds that the application therefor contains any false or fraudulent statement or that the holder of the certificate was not entitled to the issuance of a certificate of title or registration.
(i) The Division may rescind and cancel the registration or certificate of title of any vehicle when the Division has reasonable grounds to believe that the vehicle is a stolen or embezzled vehicle, or that the granting of registration or the issuance of certificate of title constituted a fraud against the rightful owner or person having a valid lien upon such vehicle.
(j) The Division may rescind and cancel the registration or certificate of title of any vehicle on the grounds that the registration of the vehicle stands suspended or revoked under the motor vehicle laws of this State.
(k) The Division shall rescind and cancel a certificate of title when the Division finds that such certificate has been used in connection with the registration or sale of a vehicle other than the vehicle for which the certificate was issued.
(l) The Division may rescind and cancel the registration and certificate of title of a vehicle when presented with evidence, such as a sworn statement, that the vehicle has been
transferred to a person who has failed to get a new certificate o f title for the vehicle as required by G.S. 20-73. A person may submit evidence to the Division by mail.
(m) The Division shall rescind and cancel the registration of vehicles of a motor carrier that is subject to an order issued by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration or the Division to
cease all operations based on a finding that the continued operations of the motor carrier pose an "imminent hazard" as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 386.72(b)(1).

§ 20-183.8. Infractions and criminal offenses for violations of inspection requirements.
(a) Infractions. – A person who does any of the following commits an infraction and, if found responsible, is liable for a penalty of up to fifty dollars ($50.00):
(1) Operates a motor vehicle that is subject to inspection under this Part on a highway or public vehicular area in the State when the vehicle has not been inspected in accordance with this Part, as evidenced by the vehicle's lack of a current inspection sticker or otherwise.
(2) Allows an inspection sticker to be put on a vehicle owned or operated by that person, knowing that the vehicle was not inspected before the sticker was attached or was not inspected properly.
(3) Puts an inspection sticker on a vehicle, knowing or having reasonable grounds to know that an inspection of the vehicle was not performed or was performed improperly. A person who is cited for a civil penalty under G.S. 20-183.8B for an emissions violation involving the inspection of a vehicle may not be charged with an infraction under this subdivision based on that same vehicle.
(4) Alters the original certified configuration or data link connectors of a vehicle in such a way as to make an emissions inspection by analysis of data provided by on-board diagnostic (OBD) equipment inaccurate or impossible.
(b) Defenses to Infractions. – Any of the following is a defense to a violation under subsection (a) of this section:
(1) The vehicle was continuously out of State for at least the 30 days preceding the date the inspection sticker expired and a current inspection sticker was obtained within 10 days after the vehicle came back to the State.
(2) The vehicle displays a dealer license plate or a transporter plate, the dealer repossessed the vehicle or otherwise acquired the vehicle within the last 10 days, and the vehicle is being driven from its place of acquisition to the dealer's place of business or to an inspection station.
(3) Repealed by Session Laws 1997-29, s. 5.
(4) The charged infraction is described in subdivision (a)(1) of this section,
(c) (1)
(2)
(3) following:
a.
and obtaining
the vehicle is subject to a safety inspection or an emissions inspection and the vehicle owner establishes in court that the vehicle was inspected after the citation was issued and within 30 days of the expiration date of the inspection sticker that was on the vehicle when the citation was issued.
Felony. – A person who does any of the following commits a Class I felony:
Forges an inspection sticker.
Buys, sells, or possesses a forged inspection sticker.
Buys, sells, or possesses an inspection sticker other than as the result of either of the
Having a license as an inspection station, a self-inspector, or an inspection mechanic the inspection sticker from the Division in the course of business.
A vehicle inspection in which the vehicle passed the inspection or for which the
b.
vehicle received a waiver.
(4) Solicits or accepts anything of value in order to pass a vehicle that fails a safety or emissions inspection.
(5) Fails a vehicle for any reason not authorized by law.

§ 20-171.20. Safety training and certificate.
Effective October 1, 2006, every all-terrain vehicle operator born on or after January 1, 1990, shall possess a safety certificate indicating successful completion of an all-terrain vehicle safety course sponsored or approved by the All-Terrain Vehicle Safety Institute.


Now i did talk to one large track owner whom i got the "we look the other way" but she wasn't 100% sure if there was a stipulation. I have contacted the atva and am awaiting a call back, but regardless the first minute my son has a sprain etc....You can bet your tail that she is going to be on the horn with anyone she can. Can anyone do anything? Probably not but what if they did? Yeah we can still race in Virginia but the closest practice track is about 2 hours or so and the closest nc practice track is 30 mins. All of our races are in NC.

[selbygirl]

that doesnt make sense. it said you cant operate 90 cc under age 16 ,most kids get there driver lic 15 years and six months old

[Doug10]

I completely agree and we both know how it really is, but having someone else that is looking to stir up the pot and leaving us without a leg to stand-on in the states eyes is not good. I see no good outcome of this if someone really wanted to press the issue. The ATVA told me they had a meeting down this way last week and it was discuessed because I called them 2 weeks ago seeking an answer in writing or an "closed course" exception to satisfy the powers to be.

[djdfairchild]

I believe quad laws and restrictions only apply to state land, Michigan has laws also. I was told they don't apply to privately owned land. Go to any Honda dealer and ask if they can sell a ATV to someone under 15, if its illegal they wont

[Christiansdad]

Yea...its BS tell the mother and law to get on the left nut and mind her own business...that law is nothing to worry about..That law came into affect after some parents dropped there kid off at a birthday party that there was a atv for the kids to ride.....well the kid had no helmet or never been on a atv...took off wide open till he crashed...died...parents sued...I do agree on every kid having every type of saftey equipment $ can buy..my 3 year old rides a xr 50 with 4 pressured tires

[edwardsp&b]

Knock out two birds with one stone and just move away from mommy-in-law. She would probably never speak to me/my family again after I got done with her. Thats one of the problems with the world today, people need to mind there own dang business.
Bryan

Or turn in an application on the show Monster in-law, maybe you could profit from her insanity.

[jake55]

get rid of the wife and you no longer have in-law issues!!! let me know if that works, i may try it:devil:




p.s. to my dear wife, if you read this, i'm only kidding!:blah:

[Bens Dad]

Sometimes its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission!
and Whats the penalty i bet its a nothing! I really hate to see you have to pull your kid from something he loves. Ps. when it comes to my Kids I dont listen to anyone!!!! :mad:

[fastrnrik]

I agree. I would continue to go racin

It doesn't specify any penalty in the statute, if it's ever enforced anyway.

The easiest solution is just tell the old bag to F off and don't tell her where you're goin to race.

[Doug10]

Yes on the penalty, i read not it and its not to exceed 200.00.

Now whats interesting is today I called the Governors office and the Attorney Generals office and both gave me this line......

"Its not our job to explain the statute to you, you have to hire an attorney for their opinion of the interpretation."

I just asked the question like this....Can my son ride on private property because this law is listed under DMV law/legislature.

The local sheriff claimed that it was not against the law to ride on private property but the State Police says it does not matter where, that I am still in violation of it.

I am amazed that the people that write these laws have no idea how to answer a simple question in regards to them.

At this point I am just going to let it go for 2 reasons....

#1 I do not want to keep pushing and pushing until I get a clear answer because at some point I could possibly jeopardize the other children in NC that currently enjoy their passion for racing. If that were to happen I would feel more guilty than my in-law.

#2 With my job in the federal government I cannot afford for this to hit me from the work stand point because I am subject to another attack if my in-law decided to push this up through them because there is a lot more legal consequences there. Even if I get some justification on the state level, whats written in the state statute would have to be explained to my employer and I would have to win yet another battle there.

In the big picture we could continue to race, have to do ALOT of travel just to get practice time unlike new where we are on the track 12 hours a week at a 25min drive each way. At this point I am considering going back to my roots, kart racing, because when he turns 5 he can race dirt ovals in the kid kart class. We transfer out of this area in a few years and hopefully will end up further south. In the meantime i really don't want him to sit around the house when he really loves to race, we will just be racing Comer 50cc's vs. Minarellis.

To top it all off, my wife is currently pregnant with our 3rd child and she has had problems during the last 2 with high blood pressure. I really am doing what i think is necessary to keep her stress level down because I know she feels trapped in the middle right now. She supports Austin at ATV racing and would stand behind him 100% but she really don't need this to deal with now. It's really misfortunate that this has been placed on her at this practicular time in life. I really appreciate all you folks support. We have came so far in the past year just because of the knowledge and support you folks have graciously offered us both on and off the track. Now I have to send emails to the fine shops that were going to be helping us out next year with the 2012 season equipment.

Doug

[jay-r]

You may not want to hear this, but you should switch to a dirt bike. There are no restrictions on bikes. It would be cheaper and much better choice in the long run. Irresponsible people are ruining quads for our youth, and it punishes parents who try to teach their children to race and ride properly.

Dirtbikes get much more respect. Not bashing at all, just might be a solution to your problem.

[grayson171]

We live in NC and my son races a mini quad. There are no races in NC or SC for the mini quads. I was told that District 29, which is the governing body for the AMA in this area, came to this conclusion. On the side of some mini quads there is a tag that states that no one under the age of 12 is permitted to ride them. With that in mind, they didn't know their liability if they promoted a race that was in direct contridiction of the manufacture's suggestions. So, when my son said he wanted to race quads, we had to go to District 13 (VA) and District 7 (MD) to find races. Now that he runs Nationals, I'm glad he stuck with it.

[Doug10]

District 13 runs multiple races at ECMX in Elizabeth City. NC.

AMA Racing ATV Extreme Dirt Track National Championship Series ran 02 Nationals in 2011 in NC, Goldsboro and Kinston.

SATVA runs their series with races in NC.

SMX runs their 20 race series in NC with mini classes.

Can-Am Grand National Cross Country runs a National in NC with mini ATV's

[aarond]

you would be suprised how many states say kids cant ride , we live in Ct ,its written law here that is hardley enforced ,especially at closed racing events .So many kids get hurt doing cheerleading ,far more than kids on legal sized atvs .i second the motion for you to tell your motherinlaw to kiss it,its a family activity that brings familys together instead of sitting in front of a tv with xbox.

[selbygirl]

some states still live in the dark ages.they have a law in delaware in the town limmits of fenwick island you cant dance., and the schools still have capital punishent,, but they dont do it... the last i heard of a child getting whiped in school was back in the 80s..and hear is a realy dumb law delaware has.. you can give your 18 year alcohol in your house under your supervision.. i gues peaple are afraid of change .just like switching the horse and buggy to the automobile