450r calipers to 250r spindles? Anyone

[BULLET99Z28]

My build is done. I am using a complete front set up off of a 04/05 450r w Laegers +2+1 arms(for a 250r). Does anyone make an adaptor that will let me run the 450r brake calipers on 250r spindles?

I ask because all of my bike is p/c'ed black and clearcoat, and I really like the performance and parts availability of the late model stuff. I have just read how it can be difficult gettin the front end geometry set right with the 450r stuff. If I could get 89 spindles and hubs, I'd be set, as I already have Galfer rotors.

Will the 450r hubs fit on 89 spindles? Both have smaller outer bearings, correct? Thanks guys, just trying to tinker while my baby sits in the garage this winter.

[250Renvy]

Interested in trading?

I've got some 89 spindles, I'd trade for 04/05 spindles. Could do complete swap as I have extra 250R hubs and calipers too.

[BULLET99Z28]

Very interesting. I have a build thread on here, look it up, shows alot. Every piece was disassembled by me, blasted and pc'd. bearings in excellent shape, brand new oem pads. excellent shape.

[Rich250RRacer]

I think with a little creativity and a drill, the 450R caliper brackets will bolt to the 250 spindle. I think there's only 2-3mm difference in the spread on the mounting holes. Everything else should line up just fine. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm going to look into it since I'm not happy with the camber problem I ran into with my 450R conversion.

[hartwill]

I spoke with Doug at roll design recently asking about using 450r spindles on 250r arms, he told me it is a bad idea to switch spindles like that. He said the 450r spindles require longer upper a arms. I know some people have done this swap with success. He also told me the best and cheapest front end set up for the 250r is 400ex spindles with yfz450 brakes. They bolt right up..

[Lasher]

I believe that the 06+ spindles are the same as 400ex spindles but the caliper mounting holes. One of my Walsh has 400ex spindles (with adaptor) and the other has 06 450R spindles. When I compared them they seemed identical.

The 04/05 spindles are diffferent than the 400ex

[matt250r21]

Dose anyone have any measurement numbers between 06 450R spindles and 400EX? They may look the same but the only way to be sure about castor angle ball joint location and tie rod angle is to measure the two.

[Rich250RRacer]

Nobody has tried modding the 250R spindles to accept the 450R calipers? I remember somebody on here once said the hole centers are only 2-3mm off. I know visually everything else looks like it will work. I know it's risky to start drilling on a 250R spindle without knowing for sure, does anyone have a junk spindle they can experiment with? If it is just a matter of opening up one hole, wouldn't that be easier than worrying about what spindles are going to work with what calipers and how camber is going to end up? I know of the camber issues I have with my 450R spindles, and I'm looking for a solution, just seems like everyone ignored my first post.

[250Renvy]

I'll try to get some pics tomorrow. I have some 06 spindles and hubs and calipers and 89 spindles. I'll see how close they are.


I'm pretty sure they are close. Jon370R ovalled out some protrax spindles to get a 450R caliper on there.

[BULLET99Z28]

Wow, this thread is getting some good interest, thanks guys. 1 other minor problem I have noticed is that the tierods could use to be about a 1/2 - 3/4 longer to get better thread engagement with the poper toe in settings. I would be very interested in buying a set of 88 or 89 spindles, and using my 04/05 hubs,bearings and calipers/mounting brackets. My 450r hubs have the tapered spacer between the bearings, what year 250r hubs have this? I really want to keep my 450r stuff since I know everything is new, cleaned, p/c'ed, etc. The other thing I was looking at to get a lil more camber is the balljoint kits from ASR, they are kind of like a heim style with a tapered shaft thru the spindle. They may allow for more misalignment. I would love to try the swap and give you guys the details.

[250Renvy]

Here are some pictures of a 89 spindle and 450R caliper. If you can see, when one hole is lined up the other hole is about 1/8" off. I suppose if you centered it, you could oval the caliper mount by 1/16" each side and it would fit.

<left>
<a href="http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_1569.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/IMG_1569.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br/><br/>
<a href="http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_1568.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/IMG_1568.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br/><br/>
<a href="http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_1567.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/IMG_1567.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<br/><br/>
</left>

[BULLET99Z28]

Nice pics, looks very do-able with some patience and a good carbide bit on an airtool.

Another thought, maybe the caliper brackets from the 250r will fit the 450r caliper, no spindle mod needed. Does anybody have some brackets they wouldnt mind selling or lending me for a bit to try this?

[RyanWsly]

Originally posted by Rich250RRacer
I think with a little creativity and a drill, the 450R caliper brackets will bolt to the 250 spindle. I think there's only 2-3mm difference in the spread on the mounting holes. Everything else should line up just fine. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm going to look into it since I'm not happy with the camber problem I ran into with my 450R conversion.

still have positive camber with the jam nut all the way in correct? There are a couple of guys that posted some stuff on youtube on this, they used 04-05 stuff. I have 06+ stuff I am trying to work with.

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by RyanWsly
still have positive camber with the jam nut all the way in correct? There are a couple of guys that posted some stuff on youtube on this, they used 04-05 stuff. I have 06+ stuff I am trying to work with.

I could thread them in farther, but the ball joints bind up. Not a good situation. I tried 06-up spindles too. No good.

[RyanWsly]

Originally posted by Rich250RRacer
I could thread them in farther, but the ball joints bind up. Not a good situation. I tried 06-up spindles too. No good.

Ya I'm out of threads and would have to got to shimming with washers and it looked like that was going to be an issue. I wonder if these little guys would help out any? kinda expensive experiment though.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-DS650-C-Moly-28-000-lb-PRO-X-Ball-Joints-American-Star-/250946160379?_trksid=p5197.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26itu%3DI%252BUA%26otn%3 D12%26pmod%3D360415176680%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26c lkid%3D4852673947863595669

[jhtrx250r]

Why not just use the right stuff?
It is not all that hard to get a good set of 88 or 89 spindles and the correct hub for the spindle and rebuild stock 250r calipers and walaa fits correct and works like national title winning quad should sounds easyer than hacking something together and trying / guessing to make it work.

[RyanWsly]

Originally posted by jhtrx250r
Why not just use the right stuff?
It is not all that hard to get a good set of 88 or 89 spindles and the correct hub for the spindle and rebuild stock 250r calipers and walaa fits correct and works like national title winning quad should sounds easyer than hacking something together and trying / guessing to make it work.

I'm personally not after this for the brakes or weight. A 250R is squirrelly on wide open rough stuff, my 450R is not. It's not the castors fault, you can take that out with a steering stabilizer. My 250R seems like it steers itself for some reason where my 450R doesn't so I wanted to try the ole' switch a roo to see if it cured it. It's very unnerving when you try to go the same speed from one to the other, the 250R will get real "twitchy" when the 450R does not. I'm not a huge fan of "twitchy" in 4th & 5th gear with trees near by.

[BULLET99Z28]

Originally posted by jhtrx250r
Why not just use the right stuff?
It is not all that hard to get a good set of 88 or 89 spindles and the correct hub for the spindle and rebuild stock 250r calipers and walaa fits correct and works like national title winning quad should sounds easyer than hacking something together and trying / guessing to make it work.

When i started my build 2 years ago, I had nothing but an 87 frame, I bought/built everything. The 450r stuff was way cheap and it came together, front and rear setup. I just want a little more camber, thats all. I think those ASR teflon lined joints would give that lil bit extra range of motion to get the camber right.

Plus I like tinkering with stuff. Why not do a lil experimenting to see what works, with old parts getting expensive and harder to find? It may end up opening up more possibilites for other guys. FWIW, I am not the type that hacks and crap to get stuff to work, its either done right or not at all. Just cause an LS1 didnt come in an IROC body doesnt mean I'm not gonna build it, and put C6 vette brakes on it, etc.

[BULLET99Z28]

Originally posted by RyanWsly
Ya I'm out of threads and would have to got to shimming with washers and it looked like that was going to be an issue. I wonder if these little guys would help out any? kinda expensive experiment though.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-DS650-C-Moly-28-000-lb-PRO-X-Ball-Joints-American-Star-/250946160379?_trksid=p5197.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26itu%3DI%252BUA%26otn%3 D12%26pmod%3D360415176680%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26c lkid%3D4852673947863595669

Iv'e actually been looking at those myself. I would think those have a greater rang of motion, and won't bind as soon as the balljoints. Not really all that expensive compared to quality balljoints, like R Stators or MOOG.

[hartwill]

Those probably will not work with your a arms. Maybe I'm wrong but I think those are supposedly the same geometry roll design uses and they use a 3/4" shaft that goes through the arm. Also the length of the shafts on those king pins are different for most different manufactures which could give you really weird angles on your a-arms..

[hartwill]

I have a set with two different length king pins I would be willing to loan out for reasearch after I recieve my new ones if anyone is interested.. also if the 3/4" shaft won't work you may be able to find something on rodendsupply.com I think the new ones I ordered are part# lxm-12..
http://www.rodendsupply.com/lxm-lxf.php