Winter Rebuild

[Stickman400]

I'm tearing my 400 down for the winter and going to check the bearings/seals and other little things here and there to replace. I'm also re-powdercoating the frame because I didn't clear coat it the first time and it's all chipping and flaking off.

Anyway when I was tearing the swingarm/shock/linkage off I noticed the shock moves back and quite abit where it bolts to the linkage, and where the linkage bolts to the sub-linkage it moves alot. So I'm assuming the bearings/seals are done for. I was planning on buying a GT Thunder XC link sometime so I guess now is the time. I got a question about it though. I remember reading somewhere on here that you have to space your exhaust out and move your airbox up because of the gained travel. Would I have to do this or is this for the MX link or different size tires? Sorry for the essay but just wanted to share everything. Here's some pics for everybody to oogle at!

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0344.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0350.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0354.jpg

[Stickman400]

Here's a post where they said you have to bend the rear sub-frame rail to clear the sprocket bolts. I thought you needed to do it to clear the brake caliper though, idk.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=432841&highlight=GTThunder+linkage

[CJM]

Gotta move the airbox up like 1/2", and relieve the frame iirc inwards slightly on both the sprocket and brake setup.

You can easily see where if you remove the shock and bottom the frame out.

Im pretty sure member Dustin J knows the best.

[05DodgeDakota]

do yourself a favor and get rid of the stock footpegs. You'll gain alot more control with larger ones

[crownandmonster]

Who does your powder work?

[Stickman400]

I was planning on getting Pro Armor ones that go around the pegs or a new set of bars that include the Fat Pegs. And crown I took it to CSI Industries in Burlington. They only charged me $40 to do it, but I thought powdercoat would resist chipping and flaking but there are a couple spots that are coming off, so I'm gunna do it again and put 4 or 5 coats of clear on it.

[Stickman400]

I also just remembered I need to buy their skid, because I don't really feel like chopping up my $125 Pro Armor skid.

[dxcody]

Before you go and spend big bucks on footpegs, i would just buy another set of stock footpegs and weld them together.

They add alot of stability and are only $25 on ebay for a used set of stock pegs.

Just a thought. ;)

[05DodgeDakota]

Originally posted by dxcody
Before you go and spend big bucks on footpegs, i would just buy another set of stock footpegs and weld them together.

They add alot of stability and are only $25 on ebay for a used set of stock pegs.

Just a thought. ;)

Never thought of that, good idea. But if you should also find a way to lengthen them andsharpen the teeth.

Tires are gettin bald too i see...

[Baileygunns]

Stock 450r pegs are bigger and bolt right up... Just a thought.

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by Baileygunns
Stock 450r pegs are bigger and bolt right up... Just a thought.

That's what I have on EX right now..

I'm looking for peg extensions though.. I have them on my Raptor and they are actually pretty legit.

[Stickman400]

Originally posted by 05DodgeDakota
Tires are gettin bald too i see... My tires look bald? Well they are kinda, but not completely. I'll prolly be getting a new set this coming summer sometime though.

[Stickman400]

Well I took the linkage off earlier to check and see if it needed new bearings and when I took one of the steel inner sleeves out to check it the needle bearings just feel out on the floor. And the inside was rust colored, so they deff, needed replaced.

[Drfat400ex]

I just gotta say, those are some sweet graphics man!

[01boneless]

looking good bro should change the color up a bit.

[Stickman400]

That's what I'm plannin on doing. Going to paint anything that's not already painted or chrome. Gunna paint the calipers, swinger, hubs possibly, upper a-arms, nerf bars and the oil tank and cooler maybe. All in red. Should look good after it's all done.

[Stickman400]

Alright, I've been pm'ing Dustin and he told me how to check for clearance and adjust. Here are some pics of what I have going on. Maybe he can tell me if I need to change anything. The only thing I see needing done is spacing the exhaust out, other than that everything clears, just. I might need to bend that rail out though, since it only clears by a bout a 1/16th. Airbox has a good 1/4" of clearance underneath.

WARNING, LOTS OF PICTURES!

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0368.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0367.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0378.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0377.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0369.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0374.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0373.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0371.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0372.jpg

[CJM]

Thats pretty much what I figured is needed to be done. My exhaust is already spaced out by my custom design and I just would need to push the airbox up a bit and push the lower subframe a bit out.

Nothing a 3lb sledge wont fix.

[dustin_j]

Looks like you are doing it correctly; thanks for posting pictures so others understand. I would add; however, that your worn tires could be causing an issue. The link is designed for 20" tires; yours may be worn down enough to measure less than this.

The best way to measure is to install the linkage and measure between shock mount centers to verify this matches your compressed shock length. You may find that tire wear or bearing carrier position change your frame bottom out height slightly. Meaning, with the XC link installed, you may find that your measurement between shock mounts is longer than compressed shock length. Therefore, you'd want to put a jack or something under the swingarm to lift up the wheels until the distance between shock mounts matches compressed shock length. My notes say extended and compressed lengths for the stock 400EX rear shock are 15.625 and 11.375, respectively.

When you do this, you might find your wheels need to be lifted 1/4" or something, at which point your sprocket nut contacts your subframe. For the airbox, are you looking at the rear of the box, or where the swingarm linkage mount is? Also, remember that everything will flex, so your clearances will tighten. I would measure with the link installed, but I imagine you'll have to provide more clearance. Hope this helps.
Dustin

[Stickman400]

Link was installed and everything (swingarm bolt, link arm and link) were all on and torqued. And I was looking all over around the airbox. It had clearance everywhere I could see. Between the link arm, back of the box, each side near the swingarm itself. the ONLY thing I saw might need tinkered with is the drain tube that comes out of the bottom of the box. It may hit the link or shock since it wasn't installed. I may just get a 450R one that is much smaller. Anyway I went out earlier and bent that rail out anyway. Gave it 10-15 good whacks with a 2lb. dead blow mallet. Now I've got a good 1/4" of space there. I'll check the shock length and make sure everything's where it should be tomorrow.

BEFORE:
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0371.jpg
AFTER:
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0379.jpg

[dustin_j]

Sounds like you've got it covered. I'd be interested to hear if your eye-to-eye measurement matches the compressed shock length. Another statement for those reading this, it appears you ensured this, is to make sure tires are aired up when looking for clearance and taking measurements. Good work.

[Stickman400]

Ok well I went out and aired my tires and measured them. The tires measure 19" exactly. Then I measured eye-to-eye and it was 11 3/4". So I guess I still have some adjustments to make. But I was noticing that I could barely push on the grab bar and the front end would go up and the nut would contact the frame. Then if I let it go it wouldn't drop back down to the 2x4 I have under the front of the frame, it would bottom out on the ball joints. I measured eye-to-eye on the front and got 10 7/8", is that close to compressed 450R stockers? Or should I just take the a-arms off and rest it on the 2x4? I don't want to beat the piss out of that frame rail and find out I didn't need to.

[dustin_j]

That makes sense, I knew you'd have more contact than your picture showed. You will still want to make sure you have clearance when the rear shock bottoms, irregardless of what the front does. Knowing your rear tires are only 19" actual, you could have used an MX link instead. The linkages are fundamentally very similar, but you're going to have a pretty low ride height when assembled. You can counteract this by rotating your bearing carrier so the axle is at the bottom.

450R front shock compressed lengths are longer than 11" stock (I'll have to look at my notes for absolute measurement). That is why most full 450R front conversions involve machining on the shock body. The extended and compressed lengths on stock 450R shocks are not optimal for a 400ex, until machined. Also, as you can tell there is a lot of bind on the upper ball joint. This is why GT Thunder and others sell upper a-arm kits; they also offer camber adjustment, but mainly for increased up travel.

[Stickman400]

Well this is turning into a nightmare. So I have to raise my front end to 11" or more, then my sub-frame will sit even lower and the nut will contact the frame even worse because it'll pivot at the swingarm bolt and cause more trouble. I'm gunna have to beat the ever loving **** outta that rail to completely clear that nut. And now your saying it's gunna sit lower regardless. Would an MX link make it sit higher? Or just make the travel better with the 19" tires? I'm about to say screw this and just put new bearings in my stock link and be done with this crap.

[CJM]

i think your tires are killing it, they are too small sadly :(

[Stickman400]

But are 20s actually 20s? I mean I know my tires are alittle bald, but they still have atleast 25% tread on them, and they are still a full inch off. I don't think brand new 20 Razr2s are 20 inches tall brand new. So I sould have to bu 22s, then that negates the link all together. So wtf? This is retarded, it's a catch 22. I'd be willing to buy new tires, but how will I know if they are actually gunna be 20s?

[05DodgeDakota]

your tire do look really bald. Most XC tires run alittle big, so a 20 might actually be a 20.5 or even a 21. Is there a link out there you can buy that is made to use with 22" rear tires but still correct the shock position?

[chronicsmoke]

When I was talking to Laz from GT Thunder, he said that you can run XC tires with the MX link. It will just raise your overall height by the increase in tire size. You CAN'T run 18" tires with a GT XC link, because you're frame will bottom on the ground before the shock has a chance to fully compress

[dustin_j]

Originally posted by Stickman400
But are 20s actually 20s? I mean I know my tires are alittle bald, but they still have atleast 25% tread on them, and they are still a full inch off. I don't think brand new 20 Razr2s are 20 inches tall brand new. So I sould have to bu 22s, then that negates the link all together. So wtf? This is retarded, it's a catch 22. I'd be willing to buy new tires, but how will I know if they are actually gunna be 20s?

Using 22s with the XC link does not negate the link. The link fixes the excessive progression of the stock link. It also, provides a more optimal ride height. Using an XC link with 20" actual tires, you have a ride height from 7" - 8". If you used 22" actual tires (again, unsure what actual height will measure), your ride height will range from 8" - 9". Another option is running an MX link with your current tires; your ride height would range from 7.5 - 8.5". The ride heights quoted above are what's achievable if you have the recommended 4-5" of race sag. I put an MX link on my brother-in-law's 400, with RAZR2 20" rears. The ride height is an inch higher, but the linkage works so much better than the stock link!!!!!

Don't get caught up on what you have to do to your front end right now. Your main concern is making sure the rear suspension cycles through the travel, and is only limited by shock travel. Maybe the XC link contacts the subframe so much it has to be cut and re-welded? Are you moving it upward or outward (left) to clear the nut? You can decide which route you want to take, XC or MX link. With your current tires, you risk the frame bottoming before the rear shock; you can try to rotate the carrier down to alleviate this. You will still need to make proper clearance, but if you're due for tires, start a thread requesting actual tire heights.

It is frustrating trying to get the most performance out of a system. Many inter-related factors that aren't always what they seem. Can you take a picture of where you're at currently, and what the eye to eye length is between frame and link?

All good questions, hopefully we're helping :)

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by dustin_j

All good questions, hopefully we're helping :)

I know I always pay attention when you go into suspension specifics, Dustin.

Thanks for the tips :muscle:

[dustin_j]

Originally posted by chronicsmoke
I know I always pay attention when you go into suspension specifics, Dustin.

Thanks for the tips :muscle:

Thank you, it is encouraging to hear. I'm also happy to see that Stickman is making sure his setup is correct before continuing. Most people disregard my recommendations and ride on a compromised/unknown setup.

[Stickman400]

Alright, I am beating it outward(left), not upward. And I've got 2 pictures I'll post at the bottom of the post, the first one is before I started beating on it earlier(but was still moved from doing it yesterday) and the second one is after beating on it for 5-10 minutes. I think I have 3 options. 1: keep beating on it with a hammer and hope it moves. 2: Stick it in our press and try to bend it. 3: Stick it in the press and fatten the tube. Or I could just trade you my link for an MX link and see if that makes any difference. Do you have an MX link I could trade you if I pay for shipping? Or is there any way to flip the bolts on the sprocket around to where the flat side is on the outside? Or use different bolts that would clear? So many options, and none of them sound very promising. How far are you into Iowa? I could just bring it to your house and let you do it :D

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0380.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0381.jpg

[dustin_j]

You're so close, I'd hate to see you quit now ;) . I would recommend not flattening the tube as you would lose quite a bit of strength doing that. Try applying some heat near the ends of the tube (not where you're hitting). This should help it move easier.

Another idea (or use heat with this idea also), would be to pry from above. You will want to put an angle iron, or half of a pipe along the upper subframe rail to make sure you don't bend it. You are basically rotating the lower tube outward (away from the airbox), so prying in this manner should be very effective. Just be careful not to bend the upper rail.

[Stickman400]

Alright, that sounds like something to try. I'll see if I have some angle iron laying around. But would an MX be better for it, or should I just stick with the XC link and get this bent out? I plan on running 20s or possibly even 22s (just for trails) in the future. I'm never EVER going to put 18s on it.

[dustin_j]

If you will never run 18s, then I'd stick to the XC link. It takes some work to make sure everything will clear, but after that you will have good performance with the taller tires you mentioned. The MX link works better than stock, but the XC link is superior for taller tires.

[Stickman400]

Well I would only be running the 22s every now and again when we go on a trip to a park with rutted trails or when it's really muddy (so the shock wouldn't be using very much travel). I'd just have them on another set of rims ready to bolt on and go, but I'd be running 20s as my main tires. I was also going to be running a set of 21" paddles for when I go on a trip to Little Sahara and such. Hell I'm not even sure 22s would clear my nerf bars, my 20s are damn close now.

[CJM]

Just so you know, since Dustin didnt mention it: Cant change the nut/bolt setup on the sprocket b/c the inside of the sprocket is cupped so the bolts fit inside it.

Id keep "massaging" the subframe. Its only the subframe, yes its an integral part of the frame but-if you were to bend it slightly you would be fine. You need some heat-even if its a propane torch. Id also use a block of wood and a 3lb sledge-gonna give it that much more oomph to push the metal around. Could also secure the quad somehow and then take a cable puller or perhaps even a ratchet strap and secure the other end to soemthing solid and start ratcheting it in.

[Stickman400]

Yea, I figured that CJM, but I was thinking of taking it to a machinist and having them recess the outside of the hub so that it sat down inside the hub like it does on the sprocket.

Anyway I took it and put it in our press and got it to bend quite a bit. I finally got it to bend enough to clear with the eye to eye measurement being 11 5/16", which should be 11.35ish. So here is a pic of that.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0383.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0384.jpg

Now I have to clear the airbox. And I was just thinking of putting in spacers with longer bolts on the front and back. Here is a slapped together visual of what I'm thinking of. It'll look cleaner when I get it finished.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0387.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0389.jpg

[Stickman400]

Well now I got my airbox all lined out. Got some spacers and bolts at the local farm store and rigged it up, looks pretty good to me. Might need to chop a little off the front ones.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0390.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0391.jpg

But now I got a new problem. I was putting my rear caliper on to make sure my exhaust would clear after I put my spacer on it that I bought and it does clear by quite a bit, but now the right frame rail hits the caliper. And the eye to eye measurement is 11 5/8" and the frame is sitting about 2" off the ground. Here's some pics, tell me what you think.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0392.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0393.jpg

Here's how much space is between the the sprocket bolt when the caliper is sitting on the frame.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0394.jpg

[CJM]

The tabs on the airbox are gonna snap off like butter lol.

I finally had enough after I broke 2 airboxes and just riveted on some metal brackets I made.

[dustin_j]

The sprocket side looks great. I was not prepared for the caliper to contact. How much clearance do you need? Maybe you can unbolt the lower subframe mounts to see where the caliper needs to be? If it's only 1/4" or so, you could notch it out and weld it shut. You might want to beef up the gusset on top, or I've seen people add vertical tubes between upper and lower subframe rails to add strength. The latter sounds like a good idea.

I agree with CJM, your rear support looks good, but the side tabs won't be able to hold the load when you land a jump. His fix sounds good; otherwise, I've used metal strapping (exhaust strap) to cradle the airbox. Not as visually appealing but it worked. Something else to check, does your seat still mount okay with the airbox raised? When I lifted the airbox on my 450, it contacted the seat pan; something else to check on. It's all a lot of work now, but when you no longer get bucked around you'll know it was worth it.

[Stickman400]

Yea, I'm gunna redo the front ones, prolly with straps of some kind. I've broken my fair share of airboxes too. As for the caliper, what if I did a 450R rear caliper swap? Does the 450R rotor and caliper have a smaller profile? I'd be more than willing to do that. And I have 11 5/8" eye-to-eye and I need 11 5/16", so I need about a 1/2", maybe a little less. And I'll have to check my seat. I thought about checking it but gave up after I found out the caliper hit, so I gave up working on it.

[dustin_j]

If you look at the bearing carrier from the right side, what position is the axle at? Is it at 12, 2, 5, etc? If it's above the 9-3 line, then rotate it CW until it's below this line. This will help you in two ways:
1) It will act like taller tires to prevent your frame from hitting the ground when bottoming out.
2) It may provide enough clearance for your caliper.

Give this a shot and let us know what you find. I'm not sure about the orientation of the 450R caliper compared to the 400EX. I'll try to remember to look at my 450 to see if the caliper sits lower.

[Stickman400]

Ill look, but I think its at the 9-11 position. But if I spun it wouldnt my chain be insanely loose? How would I adjust my chain?

[dustin_j]

You'd still want to tighten the chain, you'd just position the axle to the 7-8 position instead of 9-11. Again, I'm not sure if it will be enough, but it'd be quick to try.

[Stickman400]

I think I know what you mean, but its hard to explain. I'd be adjusting the slack by moving the adjuster from the bottom side-back, instead of the top-down. I'll check tomorrow. And see if that 450R caliper and rotor is smaller.

[Stickman400]

Alright guys. I decided to go out and mess with the brake again and slapped on the 450R caliper (still don't have a rotor) I got and it still hit with the adjuster at the normal location. But when I cranked it all the way to the back I had more than enough room. But I'm wondering if I would be able to adjust may chain from there. I had it at 7-8 but I couldn't move the adjuster because those 2 little tabs on the brake stay wouldn't let it move. Should I grind those off? Here's some pics, and these are taken with the frame at 1.5" off the ground and at 11.35" eye-to-eye.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0401.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0402.jpg

[dustin_j]

From looking at your pictures, I think you'll have clearance as long as you move your adjuster downward to tighten your chain (should end up at a similar location). Yes, I would recommend grinding the tabs off.

Can you measure from the floor to the center of the axle bearing? This should be about 10".

[Stickman400]

Ground the tabs off. And it's 9 3/4" to the center of the carrier.

[dustin_j]

Good deal; sounds like flipping the carrier gained you some clearance. When your shock bottoms out, your frame will now be about 1.5" off the ground.

[Stickman400]

Now I'm just waiting on the rest of my brake parts to get here so I can assemble it and make sure everything clears when it's all together. Then I can go get the frame PC'd and start assembly.

[Stickman400]

Wow, I waited a week after I got the wrong part (that anti-fade brake hub/locknut) and finally got another one today and it's still the wrong part. I've been ordering through Motosport (which has been more than helpful through all this), but they aren't the ones at fault here, Durablue is. I don't think anyone working at Durablue has any 'effin clue as to what they are doing. I keep getting a box that SAYS it's for a '04 450R, which it has a 3 bolt rotor. And for some reason inside the box is a 4 bolt rotor for a 400ex. Durablue has the WORST customer service and it looks like the parts and shipping department is going to crap also. I don't recommend that anyone EVER buy from them.:mad:

[Stickman400]

Well I started painting my stuff, dropped my frame off at the PCer Tuesday, should have it back this coming Tuesday. Also started painting my other parts, got my swinger painted.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0410.jpg
Also cleaned my engine off with some aluminum acid and MAG wheel cleaner, here's some before and after pics.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0411.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0414.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0412.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0415.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0413.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0416.jpg

[Stickman400]

Well I got my axle carrier in my swinger along with my chain slider and everything else, just waiting on that damn locknut. Also got my oil tank, cooler and rear brake caliper painted in red, don't have any pics but they look pretty badass. Also got my 450R carb. ready for install. blocked off the hot start with RTV:
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0422.jpg
RTV'd the carb and adapter and pressed the 2 together:
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0423.jpg
Also installed the 450 throttle cable, shaved the inside of the intake boot and checked the jets. It seems that it has a 162 main and 48 pilot. I also adjusted the a/f screw out 2.5 turns. I guess I'll just put the needle on the 4th notch per this thread http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=479468
I'll put up some more pics when I start putting it all back together.

[Stickman400]

Well I got my frame back earlier. Already got the motor, rubber grommets, oil tank and cooler in it. I'm gunna go back out and hang the wiring harness after I get done eating. Then I gotta play the waiting game again and wait for my other little parts to get PC'd.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0426.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0427.jpg

[Stickman400]

Got the wiring harness hung and everything on it hooked up and ready to go. Started trying to put on the moose poly case saver I bought, but it seems it needs a little modification to fit, so i just gave up on it for tonight.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0431.jpg

[Stickman400]

Well I went out and bought a Craftsman ATV lift. Threw the wheeler on it and got quite a few more things done. Got the steering stem in, stabilizer on, linkage, swinger and axle on and got that stubborn case saver to fit. Now I'm just waiting on my little parts to get back from PC and I'll be on the home stretch!
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0432.jpg

[Reece616]

Definitely looks like its coming along.
I'm doing an overhaul type project on my quad as well. I can't wait to start putting it together.

[Fix29]

That is looking awsome so far, love the red oil tank. Keep up the good work man.

[Stickman400]

Thanks, I don't know why the pictures are fuzzy. I'm waiting on all my little parts to get back from the PC'r, they're gunna be red also. Hopefully it balances out all the black. I'll also get some pictures from different angles when I get more stuff.

[quadmanw]

Bikes lookin sick. Mine is in the same process. I love how you changed where the CDI box and wires connect.. How'd you do that?

[Stickman400]

That's how the '05 and up are. There's a hood that goes over them too, so if you want to unplug something you just pop the hood off and unplug it.

[quadmanw]

Oh okay haha. Kind of wish the older models were like that. Theyre just all over the front

[staakej]

IS that powder coat on that oil cooler ? looks pretty trick can we see some close up pics of that?

[Stickman400]

It's auto body paint with clear. I'm not sure how well it's gunna hold up to the heat, not sure how hot that tank and cooler will get. But yea, I'll get some close ups of it tomorrow.

[Stickman400]

Alright I got my other PC'd parts back earlier, so here's some more pics, and a few close ups of the tank and cooler. I just got my rear shock from UPS earlier so I'm gonna go back out and put quite a bit more on it.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0433.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0434.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0436.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0437.jpg

[Reece616]

What are those brackets on/near the oil cooler?
It looks like it's holding a fan I'm assuming?

Build looks great!
I can't wait to start putting mine together.
If you feel like it, check out my little "build"
http://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/builds-projects-diy/17938-400ex-winter-overhaul.html

[Drfat400ex]

Originally posted by Reece616
What are those brackets on/near the oil cooler?
It looks like it's holding a fan I'm assuming?

Build looks great!
I can't wait to start putting mine together.
If you feel like it, check out my little "build"
http://www.hondaatvforums.net/forums/builds-projects-diy/17938-400ex-winter-overhaul.html
If you're referring to the polished peice infront of it, that's a steering stablizer.

[Reece616]

I know about that Haha.
I'm talking about the piece in the 3rd pic.

[Stickman400]

Those metal plates with a bunch of holes in them? Yeah, thats to hold the SPAL fan to the oil cooler.

[Stickman400]

Here's another from the back.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0443.jpg

[Stickman400]

Got another of it. Got the shock on, carb., airbox, fender brackets and supports, exhaust, clutch/reverse and throttle cable on. Also had the tank on but took it back off to do some adjustments, should have it bolted on tomorrow along with a new headlight switch and starter button.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0444.jpg

[Stickman400]

Got a couple more. Got the airbox and carb. bolted in now, aswell as the heat shield and tank. I also got a new headlight/starter button wired up, but it's not in the pic.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0449.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0448.jpg

[Stickman400]

Finally got the right locknut/brake hub. Go it on as well as both tires, chain, and wave rotor. Gotta get some spacers and longer bolts for my GT Thunder skid plate for it to clear my rotor and sprocket. And still waiting on my Houser +1s so I can button up the front end. After that just a few little things to clear up and it's ready to go.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0451.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0453.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0452.jpg

[quadmanw]

Looks great man! cant wait till my motors done so I can put it back together. You gave me the idea for my color scheme :D

[Stickman400]

Got some longer bolts and spacers for my GT Thunder skid. I don't know about everyone else on here but with my 38t rear sprocket I had to buy 1" spacers to put between the rear mounts on my skid and the swingarm mounts, then I put 3/4" spacers on the front mounts so it wouldn't bend the hell out of the skid plate wen I tightened it all up. I bought a T.M. Designworks chain slider to bolt onto the skid to reduce the noise everyone complains about with these GT Thunder skids. I also got my poly Maier skid bolted up. I put some weather stripping between the skid and frame so it won't rub the PC off like my old skid did. That's all the little stuff buttoned up on it, everything left needs the a-arms for it to be put on.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0455.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0456.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0454.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0457.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0458.jpg

[01boneless]

looking great man!!!!! love the color scheme what underbody skidplate is that?
EDIT i just saw maier duhh:rolleyes:

[Scro]

I would cut those spacers down as far as possible, or find a way to not run them at all. Those bolts are going to bend like butter with that much leverage.

[Stickman400]

Originally posted by Scro
I would cut those spacers down as far as possible, or find a way to not run them at all. Those bolts are going to bend like butter with that much leverage. I could MAAAYBE go down to 3/4" (and that's a big maybe because with 3/4" spacers it had about 1/16" between the chain and skid), but not any less than that because it'll rub the skid. I don't know what else to do other than run no skid at all, or chain guards. But if I get those I kinda wasted my money on the GT skid. What if I got button head bolts?

[Scro]

Have you tried rotating the carrier 180°? This may give you a little more clearance. Only difference is the tightening and loosening will be reversed. Rotate towards the rear to loosen, towards the front to tighten.

[Stickman400]

Yea, I already did that to clear the sprocket bolts and caliper from hitting the frame.The axle is sitting at about 5 'o clock in that picture.

EDIT: I found this thread from awhile back that's discussing a similar situation. He chopped up a Pro-Armor then used a LSR sprocket guard. http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=414074&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

[CJM]

Why not switch to a 37 or 36 T sprocket and see what happens. I run a 37 and honestly could get away with a 36 as well. That might help with the clearance issues.

Also have you called Laz at GTT yet? Might be something your missing?

btw, I hope mine goes better than yours. Planning on doing this in the next month or so and I pray I dont have the same issues.

[Stickman400]

I would drop to a 36t rear, I was planning on it anyway, but I still have quite a bit of life left in my chain and sprockets now. I don't wanna buy a new set if I don't have to. I'm gunna call GT on Monday and see what they have to say. Good luck on your build, everything will probably bolt right up for you. It seems like I always run into stupid little problems like this.

[CJM]

I hope everything works out for me.

Honestly even if the new sprockets installed, if everythings fairly new I wouldnt worry about it.

[Stickman400]

Well the ones I have on it I got back in June 2 of '09. And they are getting a little wore, but still have life in them. I'm starting a good paying job here in a couple weeks (so I'll be set with money), so I'm probably just gunna buy a JT Steel/DID chain combo (15/36) and then see what that does. If it still doesn't clear then I'll just chop up my old Pro-Armor or the GT skid, and buy a Blingstar sprocket guard.

[CJM]

The sprocket guard and chopping the skid is what my plan was if it didnt work..

[Reece616]

I feel like you could probably make a decent sprocket guard without too much difficulty.
I feel like the hardest part would be getting the materials.

I feel like while putting mine together I'm gonna be running into problems quite a bit too, cuz that's just how it always happens for me, so don't feel bad haha

[dustin_j]

I agree with Scro about not wanting to use the spacers. I didn't realize Laz's skid was that tight to the sprocket; definately max available clearance. When you were checking to see if the 450R caliper cleared when rotated on the top side of the carrier, was the engine in to ensure the chain was tight? Meaning, maybe the caliper was not rotated back far enough to clear (this may be Laz's response). However, then you're back to dealing with frame out issues due to your short tires. I can definately relate with everyone talking about running into Murphy's law, haha. I guess I figure that's something that comes with trying to squeeze every bit of performance out of your machine.

[quadmanw]

This makes me not want to do the GTT link at all.. Lol. Stupid little problems are the ones that piss me off! Lol

[CJM]

I think his tires are mostly the issue with the clearance problems and moving the carrier around and such only amplified the issue.

[Stickman400]

When I was checking clearance for the caliper I had the engine out, but the axle was sitting at 6 'O Clock in the carrier, which gave it more than enough clearance. When I got the engine in and everything bolted down and got the chain adjusted to where it needs to be it's sitting at about 5 'O Clock (if you viewed it from the sprocket side). So I can't go any other way than back with it to get it to clear the frame AND skid, but that would require 1 more link in the chain and that would never get tight because it would then be too long.

So the way I look at it I have about 5 options here:
1- Run it the way it is
2- Run it the way it is, but with button head bolts to reduce the likely-hood that it catches something
3- Chop the skid down and run it with a sprocket guard
4- Run a smaller sprocket and then smaller spacers
5- Run no guard at all, but I would need something for what I ride in

[CJM]

I think the sprockets your best bet.

[dustin_j]

I thought I read you have a pro armor aluminum skid? Does it allow more clearance for the sprocket? If so, you can just cut out the linkage pocket and run that way. We did this with my brother-in-law's and it works fine. Of course, you have the new GTT guard to do something with.

With the skid spaced that far from the swingarm, I would be worried that the skid would hit a rock or something and rip the threads out of the swingarm itself; then your swingarm is done for. The quad is looking great by the way!

[Stickman400]

I do have a Pro-Armor skid, but I was wanting to use this GT skid since I bought it, plus it's steel instead of wimpy *** aluminum like my bent to hell Pro-Armor is. I'll prolly chop up that skid if I get the new chain and sprockets and it still won't clear.

[Stickman400]

Well I talked to Laz and he said when they ran into the same problem on one of their 400s they used a 250R rear hub and rotor, then a dirt bike dual piston rear caliper (because its a smaller profile then a 450Rs) and then a custom stay made by JB. It sounded like a little too much for me to even want to mess with it. But he said the only way that I could get the skid to clear in my situation is spacing it like I did. But I could also chop up the skid and put on a sprocket guard. So that's what I guess I'll do once I get new chain and sprockets and see the clearance. Damn.:ermm:

[quadmanw]

is the 450r hub, larger sprocket, and xc link causing this?

[Stickman400]

The linkage causes increased up travel, which caused my stock 400 and the 450 caliper to contact the frame, so I flipped the carrier over so the caliper would clear the frame (instead of bending the hell out of my frame rail for it to clear). But that caused the sprocket to sit lower than usual and now I have to space the skid for it to clear everything. So yes, the linkage caused all of these problems.

[quadmanw]

wow thats alot of problems lol. sounds like you just have to watch what you hit with that skid..

[Stickman400]

Yea, but the way things are going I will have started my job, ordered the chain and sprockets, find out it won't work, then chop up my old Pro-Armor and then order a sprocket guard and have that on before I get my a-arms. And I don't plan on riding in anything other than sand until I get some kind of solid protection on it anyway, so it isn't gunna hurt it. I'm also not planning on riding this thing until it gets into the high 60s outside and everything is dry, that way I don't hit one mud hole and fling muddy water all over everything. I'm gunna putt around and take alot of pictures of it before I start thrashing it.

[CJM]

I cant recall, but did you have the shock reworked at all?

[quadmanw]

Hahaha same with me. Plus I would like to get some get 93 and break the motor in right so I'm going to wait till spring

[Stickman400]

Yea, I had it re-valved for my weight, riding style and for the link.

[CJM]

But you didnt have it respung?

I wonder if they need to machine the shock body like they describe on GT's site.

[Stickman400]

According to GT Thunder and Jet, for my weight (130lbs.) it's better just to stick with the single rate and just do a re-valve.

[CJM]

Probably if thats your weight.. Your a skinny little guy lol..

Im still very confused by why you have such problems with the linkage. I pray I dont get stuck in the same situation when i do mine.

[dustin_j]

Yes, stickman is fortunate enough to be able to use the stock spring due to being so light. This way, he only needs the revalve. GTT only needs to machine the front 450R shocks to work on 400s; the linkage is designed to optimize the rear stock extended and compressed lengths. The linkage builds in the correct progression, so a dual rate setup is unecessary with this link.

Did Laz say he has only seen this on some 400s? I wonder what is different about your subframe that it contacts?

[CJM]

bent subframe maybe?

[Stickman400]

He said that they ran into the same problem on a 400 that they ran. And that they fixed it by putting on that dirtbike caliper, 250R rotor and hub then the custom brake stay. I'm still wondering how everyone who bought their link has managed to clear the stock caliper without having to flip the carrier, and without modifying the right rear sub-frame rail. I wouldn't think the 99-04 have a different bend in the right side, it's straight as an arrow from the mount back.

Can anyone else on here that is running a GT Thunder XC link confirm that they didn't modify the right sub-frame rail to clear the caliper? Also give your rear tire size, because I guess if you have 22s then your axle and caliper would sit further away from your frame and therefore not contact it, right?

Idk, I'm stumped. It all turned into a catch-22 for me. And yes CJM, I am a skinny little country white boy, and proud of it, lol.

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by Stickman400
I am a skinny little country white boy, and proud of it, lol.

Hahaha

Build is looking good! I want to get the MX link for my 400, I wonder that will be as troublesome also.. :ermm:

[dustin_j]

I'm surprised Laz did not look further into why that other 400 had this problem. I am assuming by his statement, most 400s do not have this issue? If most 400s did have the issue, he should update his website!

I'm glad you are actually taking the time to look into everything about putting this linkage on. Most people would just throw it on and go; thus risking issues with caliper contact, etc. The tire size will not matter with regards to the contact. The issues you are having relate to where the carrier is in the adjustment range; what front sprocket size are you using?

The MX link is not an issue, it does not have to modify the travel as much from stock, it mainly corrects progression. The XC link greatly modifies wheel travel with respect to frame travel from stock. Your swingarm has to travel further into the subframe to achieve 1.5" bottom out with 20" tires. I am perplexed that this issue only shows up on some 400s?

[Stickman400]

15t front sprocket. I'm thinking I'm gunna take the rear shock off and drop it to the ground on 2x4s again and see if everything still clears. Then flip the carrier back to stock and see if it will clear, maybe it will, idk. We'll see.

[Stickman400]

Well I went out and took the shock off. Dropped it down and the caliper doesn't hit the frame when flipped or when in the normal position, it just hits the airbox both ways. The eye-to-eye measurements are 11.75 with the carrier in the normal position and 11.45 when at the flipped position. So if I want to get the full travel out of the linkage I either have to leave it the way it is, or put it back in the normal position (for the skid to be raised) and find some way to get the airbox up higher. I can't get it any higher than how it is now without chopping off the stock mounts and fabbing up something of my own. The seat just barely clears as it is now. The 450 caliper clears the frame, but hits the box, and the 400 caliper is vise-versa, it hits the frame, but clears the box. And once again I have a catch-22. So here is some pictures of where the caliper is contacting and how much clearance between the skid and chain with the carrier flipped, tell me what ya think.

With the carrier in the normal position
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0460.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0462.jpg
And with the carrier in the flipped position
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0463.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0465.jpg

[CJM]

Cut the airbox up imho or run a unit sticking out of the carb with a outerwears on it.

[Stickman400]

Is there an aftermarket box that will clear the caliper better? I don't want the battery in it, just a small box to protect the filter and thats it. And do the aftermarket boxes sit any higher up?

EDIT: Now that I look around at what I have for aftermarket options I think I'm just gunna call Laz again and see what they ran. I'd like to keep a box to keep as much water away from the filter as possible for when I go creek riding, otherwise I would just run a filter straight to the carb. and no box.

[Stickman400]

I wonder if I can get an 04-05 450R airbox and modify it to fit. They make quite a few aftermarket ones that are clearanced for long travel suspension. I wish I had a 450R to take some measurements off of. I'd be more than willing to try and get it to fit. Here's one that I found: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Airbox-Air-Box-Honda-TRX450R-TRX-450R-450-Intake-CFM-Performance-/170766504888?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item27c27a13b8#ht_501wt_1270
And here's another slightly smaller one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Airbox-Air-Box-Intake-Honda-TRX450R-450R-450-CFM-Performance-/380403724400?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item5891d43070#ht_500wt_1287

I guess I'll try and see what I can do to get the stock one raised some more.

[CJM]

20 dollar harbor freight plastic welder and a dremel and you can cut that sucker up plenty to fit it.

Problem running a 450r box will be it isnt going to sit on the frame right and the airboots going to be wrong-no snorkel either.

[Stickman400]

Well I called Laz and (I'm not joking here) he said to use zip-ties to hold the airbox up. He said to just cut off the tabs and use lots of zip-ties, that way it's "free floating" and when the caliper hits it it will just push it up and then it will fall back into place. That's what they did when his son raced a 400.

[dustin_j]

Not much more sophisticated, but likely more robust...I used exhaust strapping on mine. Wrapped underneath the airbox and looped over the subframe on each side. It worked well. Make sure you hold it up as high as you can, but, as Laz mentioned, if it can float isntead of break, it'll work.

[quadmanw]

Sounds kind of ridiculous to me.. Lol

[Stickman400]

I'll prolly end up putting exhaust strapping under it or use flat aluminum stock, but I'll do this just for now.

[CJM]

Exhaust strapping or some L brackets you bolt into the box would be a good idea imho.

[Stickman400]

Well I chopped the rear tab and front tabs off the box and raised it up and zip-tied it. It's actually pretty darn tight and stable. I lowered it on 2x4s again, flipped the carrier to the normal position, and the caliper hits the frame still with 11.75" eye-to-eye, so I'm gunna have to leave it flipped. But with it flipped it clears everything easy. You can see in the side view that I raised it quite a bit, the bottom of the lid at the back is even with the frame rail now. I'll find something to rig up on it sometime later if I have problems breaking the ties, but it looks pretty decent to me.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0469.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0470.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0471.jpg

[quadmanw]

Looks good man. I have to do something like that to mine. Surprised to see that you run the snorkel and air box lid!

[CJM]

Looking thru this thread the other day reminded me I could really use those airbox frame mounts. Mine were nonexistent since I bought the EX used lol. And wouldnt you know 15 bucks for both on ebay.

Anyways, glad to see you have your problem mostly solved. I wonder how mines gonna turn out since Ill be sending my stock to jet and doing the link as soon as I get the frame back from PC. Wish I had done so BEFORE I made my mind up but the PC will be fine, its only the subframe lol..

[Stickman400]

I ride in too much water and mud to risk running an open lid and no snorkel. And I don't feel like cleaning the filter after every ride. I am planning on getting an EHS lid later on since everyone says they repel water very well. And CJM, do you mean those 2 red brackets with the rubber grommets on them on the front? I actually was thinking about taking those off since they aren't even needed anymore.

[01boneless]

bump?

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by 01boneless
bump? Why did you bump this thread?? jw

[400man]

did you take a pic of the caliper and sprocket bolts when you lowered the bike down on the 2x4?

[01boneless]

Originally posted by TheAwesomehonda
Why did you bump this thread?? jw

because he never posted a finished quad or even any progress

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by 01boneless
because he never posted a finished quad or even any progress Oh I get it :D :D

[Stickman400]

Uhhh, there is a few in one of these pages with it on 2x4s where it was contacting. And I'm STILL waiting on those damn a-arms to get ordered and get here. It's still sitting outback in a 1/2 roller with the front end sitting on a couple of wooden blocks to keep it up. The guy I ordered them from just signed up to be a dealer for Houser when I started tearing it down last December, and his lawyer is still sorting out the paper work for him. I would order them straight from Houser, but I'm gunna get them for a good price if I order them through this guy, so I'm just gunna keep waiting. I got a full time job now and hardly have anytime to ride it now anyway. It might not get put together for quite some time even after I get them.

[Stickman400]

I just wanted to bump this thread. I got feed up and tired of seeing my baby with no front end and I went out before work today and put the stock a-arms and everything back on. All I got left to do to ride it is set the toe and put on the plastics. I would have it together tomorrow but I'm going to the supercross races in St. Louis with a bunch of friends. So more than likely I'll have it together some time sunday. I'll be sure to put up some pics so you guys can see it with the red nerfs and everything else on it.

[Stickman400]

Alright I finally got it all back together. Didn't have any problems lining the plastic up like other did after installing the 450R carb. I did have issues with the carb. acting up and not wanting to start with the engine cold, even though it was in a 60 degree shed. I had to rig up a piece of baling wire to the choke and bend it up over the top plate of the carb. and wrap it around the back to use as a make-shift choke lever. I have a 52 pilot, but I guess I need a bigger one, or mess with the pilot screw. I'm also mounting a new set of 21" Razr 2s for the front I'm gunna have mounted tomorrow, this is with 23s. And I'm still waiting on the arms, so I'll be sure to bump this thread when I finally get them and post some new pics. Anyway here she is! WARNING, LOTS OF PICTURES!

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0488.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0489.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0490.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0491.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0492.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0493.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0494.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0495.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0496.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0497.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0498.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0499.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0500.jpg

[Reece616]

Looks bad ***!!

The red nerfs really pop!
Looks good, even better with the new a-arms too!

[quadmanw]

Wow man this looks great! Hopefully mine comes out looking this good!! Curious as to what you did with your electrical buttons..

[TheAwesomehonda]

What header is that? i've never seen one like it.

[CJM]

Originally posted by TheAwesomehonda
What header is that? i've never seen one like it.

Thats a big gun full exhaust.

[Stickman400]

CJMs right about the header. I love it because it has a mid-pipe and can be taken apart into 3 pieces, very nice to have sometimes. And I bought that Headlight/Kill switch button off of some motorcycle website and wired the kill switch up for a starter button, then the hi and low beam for my headlight. I did it just to eliminate the huge stock switch. I do freestyle and need the bars to clear and free from stuff sticking up for when I do bar hops, dead bodys, saran wraps, etc.

[TheAwesomehonda]

A three part exhaust that kinda cool. Probobly ezer to get on and off with a CFM oil tank to.

[qc dsm tsi]

Originally posted by Stickman400
And I bought that Headlight/Kill switch button off of some motorcycle website and wired the kill switch up for a starter button, then the hi and low beam for my headlight. I did it just to eliminate the huge stock switch. I do freestyle and need the bars to clear and free from stuff sticking up for when I do bar hops, dead bodys, saran wraps, etc.

Do you have a link or at least what site you got that from?

[Stickman400]

Originally posted by qc dsm tsi
Do you have a link or at least what site you got that from? Here ya go: http://www.trailtech.net/light_switches.html

And I got my 21s mounted and on today. They change the look of the quad quite a bit.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0501.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0503.jpg

And here is a side-by-side of it with 23s and 21s.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0491.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0501.jpg

[CJM]

Did you finally get the linkage setup to clear right btw? Im assuming you rode it by now/

[TheAwesomehonda]

WOW that quad is sick!!! I'm needing to replace my tires and rims soon so would you recomend the itp baja rim and maxxis razr 20 rear and 21 front? I ride on the road some so I want a tire that wont wair down to fast.

[Stickman400]

CJM, yea, I got everything clearanced and set right when I was putting it all back together. I'm still unsure about what to do about the skid plate sitting down so low, but I put allen head bolts in it to help it keep from catching on rocks and it doesn't sit all that low. When you look at it it looks like anything that hits the link will glance right off on to the skid. I will be buying a 36t rear sprocket, so then I can put smaller spacers on it and raise it alittle. I gotta set my sag, but other than that it's good to go.

And Awesome I would recommend that setup unless you need/want beadlocks. I love those rims and those tires grab like crazy in everything, but I can still get them to slide and they wear very well. And those tires sizes are what the pros run for gncc so I'd say that's perfect for me.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by Stickman400
CJM, yea, I got everything clearanced and set right when I was putting it all back together. I'm still unsure about what to do about the skid plate sitting down so low, but I put allen head bolts in it to help it keep from catching on rocks and it doesn't sit all that low. When you look at it it looks like anything that hits the link will glance right off on to the skid. I will be buying a 36t rear sprocket, so then I can put smaller spacers on it and raise it alittle. I gotta set my sag, but other than that it's good to go.

And Awesome I would recommend that setup unless you need/want beadlocks. I love those rims and those tires grab like crazy in everything, but I can still get them to slide and they wear very well. And those tires sizes are what the pros run for gncc so I'd say that's perfect for me. The only bad thing i've heard about the itp baja rims is that the black paint chips off ez and the rims fill with mud because of the reinforcement rings.

[CJM]

I decided Im gonna try STI beadlocks. They arent to bad for the price at 500 for the entire front and back set. Unless I find some DWT's for a good price, harder to find the XC sized set with the 9" rears tho.

@stick: Sounds good. Im still saving up to do my link.

[Stickman400]

Yea, that is kinda annoying when you go to power wash it and it blasts mud all over you because the way the rings are, and you still don't get it all out. And the powder does chip off easy around the lug nut mounting holes, but I don't think anything but raw metal would stand up to having those lug nuts scrapped against it and then taken off and repeated over and over. For the money they are a strong, good looking set of wheels.

And this doesn't really have anything to do with the build, but I had the local shop put those tires and rims on for me and they managed to put a huge dent on the rim (you can see it in that last batch of pics, where the powder is all gone on the ring) and I called them about it earlier and they said it couldn't have happened when they had it, even though I have the pictures on my phone with dates to prove they were not bent the day I dropped them off and they were after I got them back. He said he would try and bend it back out, sand it down and re-paint it, but I told him that is a joke and you'll never get that ring bent back out and looking normal again. Then he said he wasn't gunna do anything if I kept accusing him of bending the rim (even though he did). Idk, it's a joke, I'm gonna go talk to the owner tomorrow and see if I can get it sorted out. That BS tough if they ruined my perfect $105 rim and they don't even have the balls to replace it. Anyway thanks for reading this far if you did.:)

[Reece616]

That's terrible.
I hate how it's so hard to find good, honest shops these days.
I was lucky with my rear wheels, I had a friend mount them at the shop he works at and actually watched him do it.

Btw, gbc xrex rear 6 ply can handle about 80psi (that's what it took to seat the bead Haha)

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Yea, that is kinda annoying when you go to power wash it and it blasts mud all over you because the way the rings are, and you still don't get it all out. And the powder does chip off easy around the lug nut mounting holes, but I don't think anything but raw metal would stand up to having those lug nuts scrapped against it and then taken off and repeated over and over. For the money they are a strong, good looking set of wheels.

And this doesn't really have anything to do with the build, but I had the local shop put those tires and rims on for me and they managed to put a huge dent on the rim (you can see it in that last batch of pics, where the powder is all gone on the ring) and I called them about it earlier and they said it couldn't have happened when they had it, even though I have the pictures on my phone with dates to prove they were not bent the day I dropped them off and they were after I got them back. He said he would try and bend it back out, sand it down and re-paint it, but I told him that is a joke and you'll never get that ring bent back out and looking normal again. Then he said he wasn't gunna do anything if I kept accusing him of bending the rim (even though he did). Idk, it's a joke, I'm gonna go talk to the owner tomorrow and see if I can get it sorted out. That BS tough if they ruined my perfect $105 rim and they don't even have the balls to replace it. Anyway thanks for reading this far if you did.:) Ok I hope that team motorsports don't do that to my rims cuz i'd be pissed!!!

[Stickman400]

Well the guy called me back this morning and said that he thought it over last night, and since I was such a good customer that they would just buy me a new rim :D So I guess he was sweating it out and decided to give in.

[HondaRacing83]

Nice build. Freaking love your nerfs. What makes you go with Razr 2's over GBC X REX? I love my X rexs and they were like half the price. Btw only took like 40lbs to get mine to seat on the bead lol. I did it over at my grandpas. he has a tire machine.

[Stickman400]

Thanks. My first set of Razr 2s I bought before the X Rexs were even around. And I just bought another set because I like the name brand when it comes to tires, and I had the money. They were only $114 a piece, that ain't bad.

[HondaRacing83]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Thanks. My first set of Razr 2s I bought before the X Rexs were even around. And I just bought another set because I like the name brand when it comes to tires, and I had the money. They were only $114 a piece, that ain't bad. look at the bottom, for the all 4 around set..
http://kgmotorcycletires.com/gbc_x_rex_atv_tires.htm
lol im not tryin to diss you or anything but the x rexs are literally the same as razr 2's, but a lot cheaper. i think i divided 240 by 4 and they were like 61 a piece or something. great deal IMHO. got mine in 3 days, they hook up great!

[quadmanw]

That is a great deal lol. If they ever come back in stock Im gonna purchase em this summer

[Stickman400]

Ehhh, that is a good price, but I'll pay alittle extra to have the Maxxis on the side of the tire instead of a dinosaur with spinning tires for legs, lol.:p

[quadmanw]

lol, I'm the same way. The GBC seem to keep their color better than my maxxis though.. They faded pretty heavy

[HondaRacing83]

lol just realized they were outta stock. i bought mine when they were still in stock actually. i was about ready to pay $300 for all 4, then a member on here posted that link and i ordered them immediatly lol

[Stickman400]

Well I just took it for it's maiden voyage and all I can say is WOW! The linkage and re-valved shock feels like I'm riding a pro's bike through rough sections, and I haven't even set the sag or tinkered with the rebound or compression yet. And the 450R carb. is an INSANE improvement over the 400 carb. It's SOOO snappy and has so much more immediate power than the stocker. It still needs tuned a little, it has a stumble if the engine is under load and you let off and nail it again from WOT, and I need to make sure it's jetted right. I'm betting it's a little rich if CJM has a slightly bigger bore and a EHS lid and is only running a 168 and I have a 175 in mine. And that's another thing, I just ordered an EHS lid earlier to put on, so that should give me a little more power. Also the CCP stabilizer is a very nice piece, you don't really notice it while riding, but after you get done riding for 45 mintues or more and you don't even feel like you went riding at all you know what it was that helped. I also like how all the powder coating and paint came out just right, painting the swinger changed the whole look of the quad, the way it kind of removes the last piece of "factory" grey color and makes it all look aftermarket. And PC'ing the nerfs was a good decision too, removing the raw aluminum from the quad really helped with the color scheme. All in all I love the way it all came out and couldn't have been happier. My next plans are to get those a-arms on and then get the front shocks re-valved and re-sprung to triple rates. After that I won't have much else to do, but I'm sure I'll find something. Here's some pics I took of it by the local Des Moines river, enjoy!

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0510.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0509.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0508.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0507.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0506.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0505.jpg

[HondaRacing83]

Handguards. Please. I love your quad, red cycra pro bends would set that off completely. Or Red acerbis rally pro x or whatevers. cycras would look better though. please dont get powermadds though. Your quad is so nice, I envy it. That pipe is weird tho lol, i like the way a slip on and aftermarket header looks like over a full pipe.

[Stickman400]

Well sorry to disappoint, but hand guards are never going to happen, ever. I do freestyle and if I had hand guards on it and went to do a barhop and hit the hand guard I would get messed up in the air and wreck when I land. Or when I do a seat grab or something and I go to grab the bar and hit the guard and miss the handlebar I would wreck when I land. And I was never a fan of hand guards anyway, because I have never had a tree branch or anything hit my hand and felt I needed a hand guard, so that's one thing that's never gunna be on any of my wheelers. But thanks for the comment!

[dustin_j]

The quad looks great! Glad to hear the rear suspension is working well! Get the sag set and play with the compression; the rebound was setup with the revalve. Just think how good it will ride when the arms come in and you get your fronts redone. Nice work!

[CJM]

very nice :)

[quadmanw]

Looks bad***** man. Couldn't have turned out nicer!

[HondaRacing83]

Dang.. Oh well nice quad lol

[Stickman400]

Well I got my EHS Lid today and slapped it on, probably about the easiest install ever since I just bought the lid pre-made since I have no time to cut mine up. It looks badass, but I haven't rode it yet to see a difference. I'm gunna have to start running down my jetting now I guess. I'll prolly end up with a 168 or 165 like CJM since me and him have almost identical mods done to our engines other than he has the 88mm piston and I only have the 86, and a different filter and exhaust. Here's a pic, it looks professional, very well made. I can take a pic of it on the bike if anybody wants to see that.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0517.jpg

[dustin_j]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Well I got my EHS Lid today and slapped it on, probably about the easiest install ever since I just bought the lid pre-made since I have no time to cut mine up. It looks badass, but I haven't rode it yet to see a difference. I'm gunna have to start running down my jetting now I guess. I'll prolly end up with a 168 or 165 like CJM since me and him have almost identical mods done to our engines other than he has the 88mm piston and I only have the 86, and a different filter and exhaust. Here's a pic, it looks professional, very well made. I can take a pic of it on the bike if anybody wants to see that.


Would you mind posting a picture of the bottom? It looks like a nice lid!

[CJM]

I got the one where you cut your lid up. Its nice but dang I wish I woulda paid for the coated metal cover, the brushed AL one tends to look crappy after awhile.

Its well worth the mod, totally opens up the bike. To save soem cash you can just buy the material and make your own metal from home cheapo btw.

[Stickman400]

Well here's a picture of the bottom side, and then a few of it on the quad. I took a side shot of the lid showing how far the allen headed bolts stick up. They stick up about 1/4", and since I had to raise my airbox up I had to lower it just a bit to clear the seat pan. Other than that it works and fits perfect.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0521.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0522.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0523.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0524.jpg

[Baileygunns]

What's the point if it's that close to the seat pan? How much "more" air is it actually getting? Im curious and not trying to be a jerk..

I personaly would have tossed the lid completely or just left it alone and either way, saved the money...

[HondaRacing83]

yyou say you liked woody the woodpecker?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-2004-Honda-400EX-TRX400EX-New-HRC-Woody-Woodpecker-Graphics-Kit-YELLOW-TRX-/300626132783?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45feb6bf2f&vxp=mtr

[Stickman400]

I doubt having it that close to the seat pan is gunna restrict any extra airflow that it can get. As long as there is a gap there it will breath better than if there was no hole in the lid at all. It's gunna draw the air in like a vacuum cleaner when the engine is running. And HondaRacing those graphics look nice but I would want them with black backgrounds, yellow wouldn't look very good with my color scheme.

[Stickman400]

Well I just received my arms earlier, too bad I have to work today. So I'll be putting them on tomorrow on my day off. Hopefully I can get them on and setup right in 1 day, the instructions it came with looked a little daunting.

[beastlywarrior]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Well I just received my arms earlier, too bad I have to work today. So I'll be putting them on tomorrow on my day off. Hopefully I can get them on and setup right in 1 day, the instructions it came with looked a little daunting.

Dont worry someone can easily do it in a couple hours

[Stickman400]

Well it took me about 5 hours or so to get them on and adjusted. The hardest part was assembling them on the ground, and then getting everything thing on and bolted down while making sure that you don't forget to do something before hand of afterward, and then making sure to check everything and make sure you didn't leave something loose. Anyway it turned out about the way I was expecting it. Looks nice and rides like a dream, turns like it's on rails and handled perfectly everywhere I took it to test it out earlier. Very pleased with the outcome. Next on the list is get the fronts re-done which will prolly be in the next week or so depending on if I have any plans to ride. Here some pics!
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0526.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0527.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0530.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0531.jpg

[TheAwesomehonda]

Are those a-arms houser +2 stock travel slicast?

[CJM]

+1 it says it right in his signature.

[Stickman400]

Yea, they are +1s. Interestingly enough the instructions I got with them said they were +2s. But I took measurements before and after and they added ~1 3/4". Before with the stock arms I got a width of 44 1/2", then with these I got 45 3/4", and that's with 3+2 front rims.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Yea, they are +1s. Interestingly enough the instructions I got with them said they were +2s. But I took measurements before and after and they added ~1 3/4". Before with the stock arms I got a width of 44 1/2", then with these I got 45 3/4", and that's with 3+2 front rims. Ok thanks and probobly the reason you did get the full 2'' is cuz you have it sprung so tight idk how you can ride like that. Also where did you order your a-arms from? and what was the price if you don't mind me asking?

[CJM]

Did you wind up getting extended brake lines?

Also it still looks really high with no weight on it wowza.

I bet when you sit on it tho it goes down and the 450r shocks are softer?

[Stickman400]

I ordered them from a local dealer and they gave me dealer pricing so I got them for a steal. And I installed +1 brakes lines when I installed the +1 stem so I didn't really have any problem to worry about. The right side was a little tight so I had to route them through the inside of the arm instead of the outside. And the reason they sit up so high is because if I set the compression on anything other than fully hard then I bottom them out when jumping my tabletop. They do ride a little hard, but I've tried tuning them for the trails and it didn't make much of a difference.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by Stickman400
I ordered them from a local dealer and they gave me dealer pricing so I got them for a steal. And I installed +1 brakes lines when I installed the +1 stem so I didn't really have any problem to worry about. The right side was a little tight so I had to route them through the inside of the arm instead of the outside. And the reason they sit up so high is because if I set the compression on anything other than fully hard then I bottom them out when jumping my tabletop. They do ride a little hard, but I've tried tuning them for the trails and it didn't make much of a difference. Interesting cuz I like you hit some big justs so I want the preload and compression hard but then its so stiff up front i don't get any dig or body role on the turns and then i can't take corners fast. I just have mine so i get some sag and body role and just don't hit the jumps to hard.

[CJM]

Still gotta be better than what it was with the stock arms, which even for me are really rough.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by CJM
Still gotta be better than what it was with the stock arms, which even for me are really rough. Oh i was just saying that its hard to turn with it sprung so tight just saying. I think i'm going to get the +2 houser stock travel arms.

[Stickman400]

Well when we're doing FMX you are more concerned about taking the big hit on the landing then taking the turn at the end or beginning of the jump. I could care less how it rides on the trails when I'm riding 5mph.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Well when we're doing FMX you are more concerned about taking the big hit on the landing then taking the turn at the end or beginning of the jump. I could care less how it rides on the trails when I'm riding 5mph. Oh i get it..

[HondaRacing83]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Well when we're doing FMX you are more concerned about taking the big hit on the landing then taking the turn at the end or beginning of the jump. I could care less how it rides on the trails when I'm riding 5mph. Lol then why razr 2's and +1's? thats like an xc setup. I woulda done razrs with +2's so its a friendly half half

[Reece616]

Maybe he rides trails when he's not doing freestyle? I dunno haha

[Stickman400]

Yea, I like to trail ride and do freestyle, it's hard to set it up for both but that's about the best I can think of. Also the style/size of tires really don't matter when you do freestyle either, 18s would be better if you needed better acceleration for a shorter run in, but I have plenty of room and grip to get up to speed, so I'm good.

[Stickman400]

Well I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Somehow with a 175 main in and the mods done in my signature the jetting on my 450R carb. is bang on, and I mean perfect. It's the perfect shade of chocolate brown. It still has a stumble at 1/2 throttle and right after 0/4, but that's a needle/af screw issue. Here's some pics, let me know if this looks good or not, lol. And this is with a solid 3 or 4 hours of good riding on a brand new plug.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0540.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0541.jpg

[Stickman400]

Anybody gonna comment?

[dxcody]

That is pretty much perfect in my opinion.

[Stickman400]

Ok, I got a quick jetting question that I need an opinion on. With my stock lid on and my 450 carb. tuned the way it is it's jetted right and runs perfect. But when I put that EHS lid on I get a slight delay/stumble at 1/2 throttle, so I'm guessing it's a needle clip issue and that I need to drop it 1 to richen it up, is that right? Did you have any problems with your throttle response after you installed your EHS lid CJM?

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Ok, I got a quick jetting question that I need an opinion on. With my stock lid on and my 450 carb. tuned the way it is it's jetted right and runs perfect. But when I put that EHS lid on I get a slight delay/stumble at 1/2 throttle, so I'm guessing it's a needle clip issue and that I need to drop it 1 to richen it up, is that right? Did you have any problems with your throttle response after you installed your EHS lid CJM? Sounds about right but i'm no expert cuz my ex don't even have an adjustable needle. hahaha

[Stickman400]

:confused:

[CJM]

I had a slight stumble issue on mine. Im running 168 (trying a 165 gotta go yank the plug to see tho), 52 pilot, 2.75 out the f/a and 4th needle notch.

3rd notch for me was ok but I did feel a small stumble so I went to 4th notch.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by Stickman400
:confused: The 05 and i think others don't have the adjustable needle...

[CJM]

Originally posted by TheAwesomehonda
The 05 and i think others don't have the adjustable needle...

On an EX carb.. he he has an R carb.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by CJM
On an EX carb.. he he has an R carb. haha sorry i'm talking about the stock carb.

[Stickman400]

Alright thanks, I'm gunna try that whenever I get some time to rip the front plastics off to get to the carb. Until then I'll just keep the stock lid on it.

[Stickman400]

Well I bought A JT Steel/DID chain and sprocket combo in a 15/36t. Put it on and it is about the perfect gearing. It still has plenty of low speed crawling power in 1st but still has a hint of speed if you need a little extra speed for a hill, then 2nd is a nice quick trail riding gear with plenty of power for nice long hills, and then the rest of the gears are spaced out so that they have some pull to them but don't go to quick and don't pull the engine down too much either. If anybody is running my type of engine setup (407/416/426 11:1,cam,filter,pipe,20" tires,and a 450 carb.) this is deff. the right gearing for a good all around track and trail quad. And I highly recommend the JT Steel/DID combo as they are supposed to be indestructible and last forever.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Well I bought A JT Steel/DID chain and sprocket combo in a 15/36t. Put it on and it is about the perfect gearing. It still has plenty of low speed crawling power in 1st but still has a hint of speed if you need a little extra speed for a hill, then 2nd is a nice quick trail riding gear with plenty of power for nice long hills, and then the rest of the gears are spaced out so that they have some pull to them but don't go to quick and don't pull the engine down too much either. If anybody is running my type of engine setup (407/416/426 11:1,cam,filter,pipe,20" tires,and a 450 carb.) this is deff. the right gearing for a good all around track and trail quad. And I highly recommend the JT Steel/DID combo as they are supposed to be indestructible and last forever. Sounds good man I may have to do that. So that is a little lower/slow geared then stock correct?

[Stickman400]

No, it's higher geared. Stock is 14/39 I think. I raised a tooth in the front and dropped 3 in the back. It's as high of gearing as you can go without getting custom sprockets made (as far as I know). You don't feel any power loss though because of all the extra power the motor has.

And I actually wanted to bump this thread again because I went to put that EHS lid on again earlier after I lowered the clip (raising the needle and making it richer) and it still has a slight bog to it. It's hard to explain but when you get on the gas to either 3/4 or more when you're banging through the gears on a straight it bog and has a 2 or 3 second dealy before the power comes on and then it comes out of it. It does that in any gear when you're going through them quick. Also if I'm cruising down the road and gas it to pull a wheelie it doesn' even bring the nose off the ground. But if I do the same thing with the stock lid on it pulls the nose up instantly with no problem.

Thoughts? I'm thinking the main at that throttle position.

[CJM]

yep, mains a bit to fat. Id also try adjusting the needled to lean it out some.

I told ya that was a great gearing combo! 15/36 feels great to me, got more than enough power for every gear.

[Zeb400EX]

I'm thinking your mains not big enough. When you put the ehs lid on, its increasing the air flow. So the motor needs more fuel. Your feeling more power with the stock lid, its because your cutting the air down to a better air/fuel ratio.

Basically it like this.
EHS lid on = leaning out motor
Stock lid on = makes motor richen up

So I would go up in jets with the EHS lid on.

[Stickman400]

That's what I was thinking Zeb, but I've heard of people running smaller jets because the lid increases the vacuum in the motor and requires less fuel, or something like that.

[Zeb400EX]

Idk. That might be true,but I haven't heard of that. If you got the jets I'd try going up. I'm running a 175 main with the needle on the 3rd clip and no airbox lid. My has no stall to it at all anywhere in the rpm's.

[Stickman400]

Well I put a 170 in there and it has seemed to take the bog out of it. I did notice though that if I am flying down the road with the throttle between 3/4 and WOT for awhile it makes the headers glow red hot, but after I slow down and cruise around in 3rd or 4th it goes away. Is that a sign of it being too lean?

[CJM]

Yea, too lean man.

Try lowering the needle clip to the 4th notch.

My final setup is 165 main, 4th notch, 52 pilot and 2.5 turns out. Runs great, although like everyone else I noticed a slight down low drop at 0-1/4 throttle. Could also be the sprockets, cant have everything.

btw, did you bother to rework your rear shock or is it still stock? My dual rate I bought used is WAY to soft and its gonna take me a few days to get the specs Dustin needs to redo it. Gonna hafta run the stocker for now :(

Interesting enough btw I cleared the airbox lid, caliper and sprocket no problem. bent the subframe with a bottle back and spaced the exhaust but I aint hit the airbox yet.

[Stickman400]

Yea, I had Dustin re-valve it and it's about perfect. I still need to fine tune the compression but it is more than enough for what I'm going to need out of it. My damn exhaust still hits my caliper even though it's spaced out 3/4". P.O.S sideways oval design puts alot of stress on everything and it just tilts the exhaust at and angle and won't sit level. But I don't see how I'm lean. I HAD a 175/52/2.5 turns and needle on the 3rd notch with the lid on and it had the perfect cardboard brown color to the plug and ran perfect. And then I moved the needle to the 4th notch and put in the 170 with the EHS lid and it runs great but now it's lean? Also I don't think it made the headers glow with the lid on and previous jetting.

[Zeb400EX]

Originally posted by Stickman400
I HAD a 175/52/2.5 turns and needle on the 3rd notch with the lid on and it had the perfect cardboard brown color to the plug and ran perfect. [/B]

I would go back to that jetting. Did U try the EHS lid with that jetting? If your pipes glowing tho, its definitely way to lean. I wouldn't run it very long that way.

CJM: If your quad's running good from 1/4 to wot. I would take your pilot jet down to a 48 or a 50. Sounds like the 52 might be to much. The pilot jet is the jet that comes into play from 0-1/4 throttle.
I put a 50 in mine when I first put the r carb on and when it would idle in the garage u could smell raw gas from it being so rich.

[Stickman400]

With the 175/52/2.5 turns and the 3rd notch on the needle it had a stumble at about 1/2 throttle or so when you got on it (with EHS lid). So I moved the clip down 1 notch and it fixed the stumble but had a slight delay when you went through the gears quickly. Like if you hammered it through 1st, then shifted into 2nd and hammered it again (like you were taking off down a road or if you just saw a cop) it would have a 2 or 3 second pause before you could feel the full power come on. The 170 seemed to fix it but now it's lean. I'm gunna try the 180 tomorrow and see what it does.

The only reason I noticed the headers today is because I was out after sun down and just happened to look at the headers after going WOT for about a minute down a gravel road back to my house from a friends house. I'm not 100% positive the headers didn't glow with the 175 in there, but the plug was the perfect color, so idk.

[CJM]

Yea, I might take it down to a 50 pilot Zeb.

What I noticed is like most people who did this-they lost a bit of low down power overall.

[Zeb400EX]

Yeah definitely, I lost a little lowend, but after the piston and cam I gain power everywhere. Mostly mid to top, but some lowend too. My quad doesn't come up as easy as a stock ex tho.

I've always wanted to see a dyno sheet on a stock carb vs the r carb. The r carb to me seems like it smoothed out the power delivery and takes away from that sharp spiked lowend with kind flatted out top end of the stock carb. Which I like better cause it helps keep the power the the ground. Like when your hitting a flat section an nail the throttle it just keeps pulling hard at higher speeds. Instead of dropping off like the stock carb.

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by CJM
Yea, I might take it down to a 50 pilot Zeb.

What I noticed is like most people who did this-they lost a bit of low down power overall. I agree about the low end lose cuz when i was using mine if i could start it. I had a hard time to get it to not stumble coming out of the real low rpm's. Like if you go around a sharp turn in a track and then get back on it hard in second it would stumble.

[CJM]

Ron did a dyno run awhile back, think he got an extra 3hp in the end. But his machine was totally stock otherwise.

Your right, the power delivery isnt nearly as snappy like the EX carb. its more linear and smooth.

I threw the 50 pilot in and it fired up no problem, lets see what happens when I go riding this weekend.

[Zeb400EX]

That's awesome CJM. I love to put mine on a dyno. A 3hp gain isn't lot but I'll take everyone I can get. Lol.
My motor was stock too when I first did my r carb and it was more peppy than before. I know a lot of people on here complain about there being some kind of dead spot in the rpm's after putting the carb on. But there shouldn't be at all. Like what awesomehonda is saying about coming out of a turn. That's where mine does great. I can come out of a turn and nail it again and it pulls strong. My buddy I ride with all the time with a 450r says that's where I can get the most jump on him. But suspension also plays a factory too. After I redid the rear shock and gtt link. The front end doesn't want to come up really. I can just lay into the rear and hit wot and it sticks.

CJM u running with the lid on or off? I had my lid on at first but replace the stock head pipe with a full HMF head pipe and it ran better with the lid off. It's a give and take. If your letting more air out then u can put more in.

[Stickman400]

CJMs running an EHS lid like I am, so it's pretty much running no lid.

Anyway disregard that info. earlier. I guess I put the 180 in instead of the 170, so it's lean with the 180 and the EHS lid. So the headers glowing was with a 180, NOT the 170. I put a 185 in it and it still runs great through all the gears and throttle positions. I also removed the snorkel and am just running the EHS lid now. I guess I'll wait till tonight and see if the headers still glow, then go get a couple plugs and go from there. This jetting crap gets annoying.

[CJM]

I dont have any dead spots, what I did have was a more linear power delivery down low. IE: With the ex carb if you hit the throttle it pulled the frontend up-with the 450r carb its much harder. Snap the throttle and it isnt whump the frontend is up anymore. Last time I checked the plug, the ground strap was tan as was the porcelian-the outer rings of my plug were black-indicating a rich pilot circuit however imho. That was with 165/52/2.5 iirc.

I did also change the sprockets, 15/38 was no good even before I did the carb so I had 15/37. What kept happening the more I increased the power is it revs out so quickly that 1st and 2nd become near useless-specially first. Now Im at 15/36 and its still snappy but not as much I assume b/c I lost torque a bit due to the sprockets but gained whatever possible torque and hp from the carb.

Believe me it has plenty of power, infact I can rev out so quickly now evenw ith the 15/36 setup that what I used to drag out 2nd with I now can flip into 3rd and sometimes 4th depending on how far. Like my friend and I discussed during last sundays ride (he has an 08 HRC 450r with KN lid and FMF slip on buts otherwise stock)-we really need a 6th gear as we reach top speed and then thats it-still have more to go but no more gears. But if you switch to a more speed oriented sprocket setup you lose too much torque.

Its odd to say the least, we all know they arent 450rs but it would be nice if they behaved even similar. Im as close as you can get besides having the 440 imho. What I would really like is the power to blip the throttle and you hear that snap and whatnot as the 450r front picks up with ease-we cant do that imho all too easy.

Sorry to go off on a tangent.

[Stickman400]

Well here is a new plug with about 2 hours riding on it with a 185/52/2.5 turns/4th notch, EHS lid and no snorkel. Looks good, maybe a tad lean still, somehow. Gunna keep riding on it and see if it improves any, then try a 190.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0546.jpg

[CJM]

Looks lean to me, the porcelain could be a few shades more tan.

[Stickman400]

Here it is after another 1 1/2 hours of riding or so. Now it looks a little too rich. Stupid jetting.:rolleyes:
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0548.jpg

[Stickman400]

Well I have fallen to the dark side, I bought a No-Toil foam filter. Kinda got tired of taking 1 1/2 hours to clean and re-oil my K&N. I'm gunna buy an Outerwear to go on it too and got a question. Can someone that has a UNI measure the height and the diameter at the top and bottom of it? I have to know so I buy the correct Outerwear and make sure it's the right size. Anyway here is some pics of it, I guess it doesn't have a cage inside it to support it. I'll put a few more up when I put it on, and then give a review later on.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0551.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0550.jpg

[Stickman400]

Anybody know if the UNI filter is bigger or smaller than the stock filter?

[Drfat400ex]

Well I got nothing else to do, so I'll run out and measure that for ya.

[Drfat400ex]

Okay, I hope these are the measurements you wanted, the length is 5 1/4" and the diameter is 5".

[Drfat400ex]

And the length:

[Stickman400]

YAY! Thank you Drfat, you helped me out a bunch.:D

[Drfat400ex]

No problem stickman, that's what these forums are for!

[Stickman400]

Figured I'd bump this thread to make an update. Finally got around to getting my front shocks sent to Jet to have re-worked. I had them do the Stealth Triple Rate Extended Travel conversion on them. I also had them do custom PC'ing on the springs making them red/black/red. The red isn't the same shade of red as my rear shock or the rest of the red on my quad, but that's alright. I'll just take them off and have the local PC'r that did the rest of my stuff PC them. Anyway here's the pics. I'll put up another of them on the quad and try and give a review after I get some ride time on them.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0558.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0560.jpg

[ansimation]

Were those originally 450R shocks? Also what did it run you for the triple rate conversion?

[Stickman400]

Yea, they were bone stock 450R shocks. The triple rate kit is $600 on their site. My total came to $645, but that's because I had them do custom colors on the springs ($8 a piece) and then next-day shipped them back to me.

Here they are on the quad
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0562.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0563.jpg

[Stickman400]

Alright, I'm gunna post some pics of some plugs that I have with the different main above it and I want to see what everyone thinks. All the mods in my sig. are up to date and all of these plugs had at least 3 hours of good riding on them. Tell me what you think.

180 main
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0546.jpg
182 main
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0568.jpg
185 main
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0548.jpg

[Stickman400]

Anybody know why there is such a big change in color from the 182 to the 185?

[crownandmonster]

Are you plug chopping or just shutting it off and pulling the plug?

Also are you using the same brand jets?

[Stickman400]

I'm just giving it a normal 3 hour ride and then pulling it afterwards. And I'm using genuine kehin jets from jets r us.

[crownandmonster]

It's next to impossible to get an accurate main jet reading without doing a plug chop. I'd take the same plug you have in the last picture and do a plug chop with the 185 in to start out.

[Stickman400]

Well I got my GT Thunder skid today. And it is truly a blank, it's just an 1/8" piece of white poly that's cut for a Honda frame. I'll just lay my Maier skid on top of it and trace the holes and cut them out, outta work pretty good. I also got an 8 plate clutch kit from Laz. I figured it was worth it since it comes with a new machined pressure plate and isn't just a 250R kit that they threw into a 400. Anyway here's the skid:

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0582.jpg

[dxcody]

Looks awesome!

Man, you have just about got your quad perfect now dont you? lol

Minus the whole exhaust vs Caliper deal :/

[dxcody]

BTW A little racer tip.

If you do alot of woods riding, Nick @ Jet told me buddy a tip.

He went to the Jet riding school or whatever, Test and Tune or something like that, but anyways, the first thing Nick told them to do was Flip their fron tires around backwords. (If you run Razr 2 fronts)

He said when you flip them around and run the Oposite rotation, instead of riding the ruts, they will grip and dig OUT of the ruts.

Just what he said, figured i would pass it on to ya ;)

[Stickman400]

Yea, I was thinking about saying something about that. But here's a short list of stuff I still want to do

-Get '06 450R spindles/calipers for the front
-Get an '06 450R swingarm or an aftermarket one
-Eventually I'd get a Hinson basket, but that's only if mine gets worn and needs replaced
-Get a Durablue axle housing
-Then get Kibblewhite Ex. valves and a Kibblewhite spring kit installed when I tear into the engine
-Also install my GT Thunder head studs
-Port &Polish
-Coat my frame skid in Bedliner
-Install HIDs
-Figure out my exhaust caliper issue
-I'd also like to get some Laker or Fullbore plastic and make it look a little meaner too

It seems like a big list but half of that isn't going to happen until it's needed, like all of the engine stuff. The rest I plan on doing this winter if I haven't done it by then. Anyway I'm starting to save my money towards a new truck, a 450 of some kind, a dirt bike of some kind, a 4x4 atv and maybe a crotch rocket. Lol, I can't help myself, I want every kind of transportation. I know it would be AWHILE before I had the money saved up for half of that stuff but I can always dream.:D

[Stickman400]

Well I finally got around to doing a plug chop. I don't know if the motor wasn't warm enough or I didn't go WOT for long enough but it is a really faint tan color.

Here's the top again with the 185 main in
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0586.jpg
And the base
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0588.jpg

[Stickman400]

Since no one replied I decided to try the Jets R Us method by trying to get it to stumble. I put in a 195 which was the largest I have from the kit I ordered from them and it made a HUGE difference. It pulls sooo much stronger than before and it's like engaging warp drive when I put it in 5th gear, lol. I'm gunna throw in a 200 and a new plug and see what happens.

[Stickman400]

Ok, now I have a weird problem. I'm not sure if the jet has anything to do with it or not but when I let the engine idle it acts like it's running out of gas and it sputters, coughs and dies when you barely hit the gas, and I mean barely. It would be at 1/8 throttle or so. I shot a video of what it's doing, I rev it out to show it will run fine after 1/4 and then barely tap the throttle and it chokes and dies.

I started looking for an air leak or something and couldn't find anything other than my silencer of my exhaust is leaking A LOT. Right on the back of the silencer there is a plate to seal the pipe and it's got a 1/8" gap between it and the canister. Idk if that would cause it or not but it's quite a problem. I'm getting tired of all the problems of this exhaust. Here's a pic:
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0598.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0597.jpg

EDIT: That video was crap so I removed it. I'll shoot a GoPro video if anyone wants to see it.

[Drfat400ex]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Ok, now I have a weird problem. I'm not sure if the jet has anything to do with it or not but when I let the engine idle it acts like it's running out of gas and it sputters, coughs and dies when you barely hit the gas, and I mean barely. It would be at 1/8 throttle or so. I shot a video of what it's doing, I rev it out to show it will run fine after 1/4 and then barely tap the throttle and it chokes and dies.

I started looking for an air leak or something and couldn't find anything other than my silencer of my exhaust is leaking A LOT. Right on the back of the silencer there is a plate to seal the pipe and it's got a 1/8" gap between it and the canister. Idk if that would cause it or not but it's quite a problem. I'm getting tired of all the problems of this exhaust. Here's a pic:
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0598.jpg
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0597.jpg

EDIT: That video was crap so I removed it. I'll shoot a GoPro video if anyone wants to see it.
I can't see it being the silencer, like you can take your silencer right off and it should run fine other than being lean and really hard on your valves but should act fine anyways. Is your petcock clogged up maybe? Try it with it on reserve or something, my one bike did that when I broke it in and I took off the petcock and she was jammed right full of dirt. Good luck man.

[Stickman400]

I was thinking the petcock. I've never checked it but it just happened after I put that 200 in. I know that you're supposed to look for a stumble when you're using the Jets R Us jetting style, but I thought it was at WOT, not 1/8. I'm going to put the 195 in tomorrow and see if it stops, then I'll check the petcock.

[Drfat400ex]

Originally posted by Stickman400
I was thinking the petcock. I've never checked it but it just happened after I put that 200 in. I know that you're supposed to look for a stumble when you're using the Jets R Us jetting style, but I thought it was at WOT, not 1/8. I'm going to put the 195 in tomorrow and see if it stops, then I'll check the petcock.
Yeah the stumble method I belive is you just put it in neutral and hammer it for about 5 seconds and if it sounds like a rev limiter a bit then it's rich. Idk though.

[Rohr397]

I would suggest patching the silencer and than working with jetting. The change in air flow would have an effect on the jetting for sure. In fact it sounds like the jetting issues I had with my 450r. In addition to the jetting being too rich, my pilot was clogging up. Start with the silencer though, exhaust leaks don't seem like they'd be a big deal but they're a pain.

[Stickman400]

I think I'm gunna order a new exhaust tomorrow. I'm done messing with this ****ty Big Gun. I'm gunna order an HMF competition series with a black silencer and a red end cap. Should look pretty sexy with my color scheme, and everyone seems to have no troubles spacing it out for the GT Thunder link.

[Stickman400]

Well I put the 195 back in and it seemed to have cured it at first, but then it started to act up again when it got hot. It didn't do it when I touched the throttle like before, but it still sputters, coughs and dies when it's just idling. I took the tank off and got the petcock out but I can't seem to get the filter off the end of the petcock. Is there a way to get it off or do you just pull it off? It seems to be really stuck on there and I don't want to tear it or break it. It had a little bit of sand at the base of it when I took it out. Here's a pic of it, it looks clean but I'd still like to reverse flush it just to be sure.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv192/Stickman400/Quad%20Pics/IMAG0599.jpg

[Stickman400]

Alright well I got the screen off, just had to take a pair of pliers to it. It mangled up the plastic on the bottom of the screen up but it's still ok. Anyway I cleaned that out (after I drained 3/4 of my gas out on the ground) and set the valves since I had the tank off (which were a little loose btw). And it still does it after it gets warm. I don't know what else to check other than clean out the carb. I took another video of it idling after it got warmed up and it was acting up. The video image is crap but you can hear the idle. It does it really good at :22 and it dies out of nowhere at the end.

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