LTR front end

[mirror_racing]

What makes the spindles set up bettter on an LTR? Does the switch to the LTR front end benefit a 400EX front end? will it all bolt right up with my Houser lt set up? are the lug patterns the same? And last but not least, are the brake calipers twin piston? Thanks for explaining this to me... I am a little in the dark here lol

[Kovatch]

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=478058

In a nut shell:
It changes the caster on the front end allowing for better traction into and out of corners. Tires can turn better.

Read that thread. I am not sure if it would be worth it on a 400ex. JB, Walsh, Six5, etc have special a-arms that are designed to run the LTR spindles, and brake assemblies, calipers, hubs, etc. You cannot take the Honda parts and put it on the "Honda" LTR a-arms.

[65 Designs]

The LTR front end would be a bit of a project if you currently have 400EX Geometry, (spindles, Brakes, hubs). However could benifit you in the positive. The most noticable difference is the distance between the Centerline of the upper and lower ball joint Axes and the outside of the hub (where the inside of the wheel makes contact). The better that relationship the more precise steering you achieve.

One thing that will most likely change if you convert will be your shock lengths. When you swap spindles and hubs your ground clearance will change, which would affect where your quad bottoms out. You never what it bottoming (frame to ground) before the shock bottoms out. That can cause some serious injuries.

Reasons being.

Ball joints: The taper, thead diameter, and thread pitch is different on the LTR in comparison to the EX.

Tie rod ends: EX rod ends are staight shank (thru the steering flag and spindles) with a female thread to accept the Tie Rods. The LTR has a tapered shank (thru the spindle) and a male end to go into a female thread tie rod. "You could have a custom set of tie rods to combat this issue tho."

Next, The bolt pattern on the wheels is the same between both quads. If you were to make the switch it would change your width, In which direction Im not sure without seeing them side by side.

The 400Ex comes with Single piston Front Calipers, the LTR 450 comes with dual piston calipers (much better)

In short. Yes the conversion would work with the following,
-Shock mods (Ext and Comp Lengths, maybe some valving)
-Custom tie rod ends, or a custom stem (custom stem is the better way because your steering arm location can be changed to suit the new spindles and acheive less bump steer).

Hope that helps

[mirror_racing]

This does help me out alot. I currently have houser Aarms and stem. I am buying new tie rods but have already purchased the ends... I really hate to change out my Axis shocks but they do still need rebuilt

[65 Designs]

It may work with your current shock set up. If your gonna do it. I wouldn't let the shocks worry u to much. It will most likely be a minute change.

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by 65 Designs
The LTR front end would be a bit of a project if you currently have 400EX Geometry, (spindles, Brakes, hubs). However could benifit you in the positive. The most noticable difference is the distance between the Centerline of the upper and lower ball joint Axes and the outside of the hub (where the inside of the wheel makes contact). The better that relationship the more precise steering you achieve.

One thing that will most likely change if you convert will be your shock lengths. When you swap spindles and hubs your ground clearance will change, which would affect where your quad bottoms out. You never what it bottoming (frame to ground) before the shock bottoms out. That can cause some serious injuries.

Reasons being.

Ball joints: The taper, thead diameter, and thread pitch is different on the LTR in comparison to the EX.

Tie rod ends: EX rod ends are staight shank (thru the steering flag and spindles) with a female thread to accept the Tie Rods. The LTR has a tapered shank (thru the spindle) and a male end to go into a female thread tie rod. "You could have a custom set of tie rods to combat this issue tho."

Next, The bolt pattern on the wheels is the same between both quads. If you were to make the switch it would change your width, In which direction Im not sure without seeing them side by side.

The 400Ex comes with Single piston Front Calipers, the LTR 450 comes with dual piston calipers (much better)

In short. Yes the conversion would work with the following,
-Shock mods (Ext and Comp Lengths, maybe some valving)
-Custom tie rod ends, or a custom stem (custom stem is the better way because your steering arm location can be changed to suit the new spindles and acheive less bump steer).

Hope that helps
im trying to understand whats better about the ltr front end in comparsion to a aftermarket wider honda front end. wheel scrub can be changed with wheel changes ( inset rims ) and most aftermarket arms are caster and camber adjustable .i own 2 ltrs and love the front ends on them ( put outward offset rims on them and they become crap),so im not denying that the ltr works well. thanks fred p.s. this is in refer. to the 450 swap

[65 Designs]

In my opinion, the LTR handles better than the TRX because of the kingpin offset (the distance between the theoretical center line of the upper and lower ball, and the center of the Rim/Tire)

The LTR has a smaller offset outward (approx .6" less then the 06-10 TRX). In my opinion on an ATV a little offset is good for handling, a little of a good thing is great, but lot of a good thing is not necessarily better.

When you have excessive offset, whether it be positive or negative, steering effort increases and ground 'feel' increases, as the rider is more susceptible to shock

As I see it, what you said about changing the offset of the rim (having an adverse affect on your quads handling) is 100% true. And your right on a honda it may be possible to get the handling characteristics of the LTR by changing the offset of the rims, but they would have to be offset in further than any rim manufacturer offers.

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by 65 Designs
In my opinion, the LTR handles better than the TRX because of the kingpin offset (the distance between the theoretical center line of the upper and lower ball, and the center of the Rim/Tire)

The LTR has a smaller offset outward (approx .6" less then the 06-10 TRX). In my opinion on an ATV a little offset is good for handling, a little of a good thing is great, but lot of a good thing is not necessarily better.

When you have excessive offset, whether it be positive or negative, steering effort increases and ground 'feel' increases, as the rider is more susceptible to shock

As I see it, what you said about changing the offset of the rim (having an adverse affect on your quads handling) is 100% true. And your right on a honda it may be possible to get the handling characteristics of the LTR by changing the offset of the rims, but they would have to be offset in further than any rim manufacturer offers.
I gave this some thought after posting and realized that on the ltr ,the king pin inclination has to be set up for the shorter tires that come stock on the bike and in mx we run shorter tires,making the ltr correct for mx from the factory.da ,the fourtrax is not set up for mx and it has taller tires and when you put shorter tires that moves the centerline of the balljoints further inward away from center of the tire, and then you need rims that are further inset..I thought 4+1 rims did the trick,but your saying no.I have always run 4+1 rims when running shorter tires,but have never taken the time to measure.i dont think anyone can argue, that the ltr works well,so why not duplicate it. please feel free to correct me if any of my thinking is wrong

[65 Designs]

As I see it your spot on. No correction necessary. That makes perfect sense ( in regards to the tire size.)

[mirror_racing]

since my upper balljoints are adjustable I think I am going to go with he safe route of the EX spindle. I still would like to have the advantage of dual piston calipers up front though...

[65 Designs]

You should be able to bolt trx spindles hubs and brakes right to your existing set up. 05 stuff has less of the king pin offset we are talking about so that would handle better then the 06 and newer trx parts. You may still need the shock mod or you may get lucky and it would work perfectly.