Ltr Geometry!

[njquadracer11]

i want to switch to ltr geometry and i know atv4play and jb make the kits for it (leaning towards atv4play)...just wanna know what people have thought of it that have done it

[Stiles86]

walsh too

[Britboy]

i will have a full LTR set-up for sale soon for a Honda
I bought a Pro-Am riders bike that only had one national weekend on it and thats it!
ATV-fourplay a-arms and stem for LTR spindles - will be running a different companies a-arms next season so have no use for them
let me know if your interested

[lwrider20]

wait about a month and lsr will have a setup that will make the conversion way easier and cheaper

[Langbolt]

What exactly is the Difference between the LTR and the TRX Geometry ?

If it's just the Castor or Camber ?...then that can be adjusted by using adjustable upper A-Arms (the ones with Heim joints)

Or is it more than that ?

Does anyone know the numbers (castor angle & camber angle) of both Quads ?

Or are the Spindles designed totally different on the LTR to eliminate bump steer and lower wheel scrub ??

I've seen these kits to convert over to LTR geometry.....but always wanted to know the real reasons why.

:D

[Britboy]

Originally posted by lwrider20
wait about a month and lsr will have a setup that will make the conversion way easier and cheaper

wat does the kit consist of?

[3leggeddog]

the ltr spindel off sets the location of the hub, in relation to the king pins of the spindel, so it decreases bump steer, and puts the hub in front of those pivot points, allowing the quad to turn easier,and not push,weight transfer loads the wheel better.

Atleast that's what i've learned about it.

There is a new company out called Six 5 Designs. Check em out on Facebook. He is making some very nice parts, and the price is great. It is also the lightest suspension on the market. You'll see a pro rider with it this year, aswell as a pro am, or two, and a few a guys, and we got a very fast B rider that is running it.

A-Arms-$1349.00
Anti vibe stem-$365.00
Anti vibe fat bar clamp-$115.00

Swinger and linkage is $1195.00. With bearings and seals for the linkage, bearings for the swinger, you use your seals.


If you call em, let em know Brandon sent ya!

Feel free to contact me with questions, I can contact Six 5 directly.

thanks
B-Rob

[3leggeddog]

Langbolt,
your PM box is full. I am sure Six 5 Designs would be interested in helping you with your project. Clean out your inbox, or email me @

brandonr@gerlinggroup.com

for more info.


Thanks,
B-Rob

[Langbolt]

pm BOX EMPTIED.....:D

I saw the SIX 5 DESIGN page on Facebook!

A lot of really cool stuff!

Their TIG welder is a MASTER!!! Those welds look so good that it's a shame to Powder coat over them!

:devil:

[3leggeddog]

yes sir. I can tell you the quality of these parts is second to none. Very, very nice stuff.

send me a message, or better yet, an email at

brandonr@gerlinggroup.com


I'd like a list of things you want so I can get some prices for you.


Thanks,
Brandon

[lwrider20]

Originally posted by Britboy
wat does the kit consist of?

cant really say right now but trust me it will be worth the wait. we are looking mid december to be able to release it.

[jjohns5]

Here is a peak at six 5 designs lower arm without paint...Nice!

[Sandsjbyz22]

I've heard the six5designs swing arm and linkage really compliments the A-arms

[3leggeddog]

everything Six 5 Designs builds is top notch guys!

Someone get a pic of the stem and handle bar clamp up here. They are worth seeing :-) I just dont know how to downsize, upload pics here.

Once I get a frame back from Houser for powder coat and gussets I'll be doing a build thread which will feature the Six 5 Designs complete front end

All though the swing arm is bad @$$ I opted to stick with my JB rear ends on both bikes. I can not stress enough that decision was based on my financial position. I have no doubt the Six 5 is a better product, I just can't afford to buy 2 rear ends this year :-(

If anybody has any quesitons, or is interested in some Six 5 products, feel free to contact me.

Thanks,
Brandon

[Sandsjbyz22]

Stem

[Sandsjbyz22]

Full front suspension kit

[Zryder85]

few questions

What width are the arms?

Are the made for the TRX or LTR geometry?

[njquadracer11]

i would never buy anything from lsr again, i have an lsr swingarm that cracked in the 4th race i used it, then i had to replace the llinkage bushings 3 times thins season, and my axcaliber axle bent mid season...bottom line lsr = poor quality and bad customer service...six5 designs ftw

[65 Designs]

First off, I want to thank everyone for the interest and support of our products.

The Six 5 Design front end that is being discussed is called our " X Level" Suspension Kit.

It's a MX specific front end designed for a TRX450, to use LTR Spindles, hubs, and brakes.

The width of the a ams is a bit of a tricky question, due to the spindle swap. In the end our front end is as follows, At 7" ground clearance and around 2 to 3 degrees camber in, the quad sits at 49.8". This front end was set up to run true 4:1 rims.

As far as a kit that utililizes the stock TRX Spindles, it is in the works as we speak.

Thanks again

[Sandsjbyz22]

Originally posted by 65 Designs
First off, I want to thank everyone for the interest and support of our products.

The Six 5 Design front end that is being discussed is called our " X Level" Suspension Kit.

It's a MX specific front end designed for a TRX450, to use LTR Spindles, hubs, and brakes.

The width of the a ams is a bit of a tricky question, due to the spindle swap. In the end our front end is as follows, At 7" ground clearance and around 2 to 3 degrees camber in, the quad sits at 49.8". This front end was set up to run true 4:1 rims.

As far as a kit that utililizes the stock TRX Spindles, it is in the works as we speak.

Thanks again

I'm interested to know more about the swing arm design. The bracing and tubing configuration reminds me of a trellis set up?

[65 Designs]

Ah we have an engineer in the house?? A "Trellis" refers to a structural member commonly made using a combination of structural sections connected with diagonal lacing.

Our Swinger is similar to what’s called a laced strut or laced tie, as it normally resists axial compression (strut) or axial tension (tie); the lattice girder, like any girder, primarily resists deformation.

All of our R & D is performed in conjunction with FEA Software, this allows us to optimize our component construction prior to actual fabrication and field testing (MX XC Ext)

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by 65 Designs
First off, I want to thank everyone for the interest and support of our products.

The Six 5 Design front end that is being discussed is called our " X Level" Suspension Kit.

It's a MX specific front end designed for a TRX450, to use LTR Spindles, hubs, and brakes.

The width of the a ams is a bit of a tricky question, due to the spindle swap. In the end our front end is as follows, At 7" ground clearance and around 2 to 3 degrees camber in, the quad sits at 49.8". This front end was set up to run true 4:1 rims.

As far as a kit that utililizes the stock TRX Spindles, it is in the works as we speak.

Thanks again very nice!!! is there any possible chance of having a 250r product line?

[65 Designs]

Actually, yeah. I am building one for a Project / Show quad within the next few months.

[Sandsjbyz22]

You guys are utilizing FEA software??? That's awesome to hear from an engineering stand point.

[65 Designs]

With the technology available, for us its a must. Using this software in parallel with our 3d Modeling software and a back-round in racing and fabrication, we were able to build our prototype MX rear suspension kit that to date has over 60 hours of actual MX testing using 7 different riders without any sign of fatigue or fracture. In addition, it only weighs 2.45 lbs more than the Stock aluminum swingarm and link combo.

[65 Designs]

This is a quick veiw at our Design assy prior to the actual Prototypes being fabricated

[65 Designs]

another screenshot of the A Arms

[huntertaylor98]

They have some very nice stuff does anybody know the prices

[01boneless]

^^this

[tdd6405]

$1349 a arm kit, tie rods
$1195 swingarm and link
$365 antivibe stem and clamp

[01boneless]

WOW :eek2:

[3leggeddog]

^^^ well let's get ya some ordered!

[hawaiianbasshed]

I think you guys need to make something for the older quadracers the LT250R and LT500R :)

[3leggeddog]

^^^ custom projects are not out of the question. Your funding is the only limitation to what you can aqquire ;-)

[01boneless]

Originally posted by 3leggeddog
^^^ well let's get ya some ordered!

lol i think ill pass

[89trx250r]

DnB Beat me too it! I did see a little post on your facebook about the 250R stuff, I just wasnt sure how in depth you were getting. I am looking forward to seeing what you produce. Your 450R stuff is very nice keep up the great work!

[njquadracer11]

thats pretty cheap for all that stuff

[3leggeddog]

The price is very reasonable.


I just put my first 4 motos on this stuff this weekend. WOW, does the bike turn on a dime! It is a very noticable difference over some very good 04-05 TRX setups I have had. I am very impressed.


Good stuff here guys, get your order in now, and help your help lap times out

Thanks,
Brandon

[FourTech Indust]

I will be running Six 5 Designs a-arms, stem, swingarm, link, and gusset kit for next year. The craftsmanship on this stuff is amazing!

[hrc450er]

I can see these being the new trend. In mx all u hear about is walsh

[honda250xrider]

The arms look very nice!

what shock length is going to be needed for the a-arms and swing-arm?

What kind of travel are you getting out of this setup? Im guessing you are hovering around the 2:1 ratio mark.

[3leggeddog]

Hi Mark,
I'll answer what I can.

Front shocks-19.5 EXT/ 14.0 comp Fox part number is 830-23-001

Rear shock-17.25 EXT/ 11.90 comp Fox part number is 931-03-008

Jake will have to answer for the length of travel.

Hope that helps,

Thanks,
B-Rob

[JNWQUADMX]

Lol

[eastside 400]

thought is was pretty funny as well.. considering he has gibson arms and a superlink in the forsale section. the workmanship is really good though.

[WhiteZee]

Originally posted by eastside 400
thought is was pretty funny as well.. considering he has gibson arms and a superlink in the forsale section. the workmanship is really good though. haha

[huntertaylor98]

Are ktm spindles and hubs better than ltr

[FHKracingZ]

Jakes stuff looks good no doubt, Ill stick to the company that has backed me and the sport through thick n thin. WALSH

I have no complaints on my LTR walsh front end on my honda. Handles great!

[eastside 400]

im not trying to bash this stuff because it does use an all new design and it looks really good and i can tell that someone put alot of time and effort into this stuff. Its just funny that someone would put that it uses the same specs for shocks as other products because thats a dead give away. I like his stuff and i see he makes a engine lowering kit now too that looks really nice

[JNWQUADMX]

Trx engine drop kits have been used for a long time, the purpose of it is to re configure the countershaft with the swing arm pivot, for means of traction and forward motion by means of suspension. Everyone is always searching for everyone else's leverage ratios to try and make things work, not bashing anyone, just stating a fact that we will always be here making the finest products with results and testing to back it up, our ratios are our own and our designs are copied all the time bc they are proven to work and win races. Don't count us out and say you won't hear about us.

[JNWQUADMX]

So please don't take me for being a dick or anything, I'm not one to come on here and bash anyone, that is not my intention, I think it's great people are designing new product for quads. I just didn't think it was very true that all you will hear about is a new company and that they are better then the proven winners. We're all in this sport we love together and it's great everyone wants to push design and engineering to new levels. It's all good for our sport in the end.

[65 Designs]

JNWQUADMX,

Well there seems to be some accusations being tossed around. First off I want to thank you and everyone else for the compliments on our products. Also to be compared to Walsh and JB is an honor, Both companies have excellent product. I myself have been a huge fan of walsh for 10 plus years for there ablity to push the envelope on design and fabrication.

That being said, I can only set back for so long, an allow false info to be spread about my products until the record needs to be set straight. So here goes.

Starting with Leverage Ratios, for those who are not familiar with this term. It is the ratio between wheel travel and shock shaft travel. An industry sweet spot is 2" of wheel travel for every 1" of shaft travel. Any suspension set up on the market that works well will have this 2:1 locked down. There is infinate ways to achieve this motion ratio. There are many factors that come into play. Wheel base, width, camber, caster, and so on.

The first thing I do when designing new suspension is pick my shocks. On my TRX kits, I started by talking to Fox and getting a list of compressed and extended length shocks that they had readily available (this way when it is time to test they can just pull shocks off the shelf and send them my way) In no way did I know what shock lengths went with whos set up as this info is useless to me. Fox themselves can validate that statement aswell. Not once did I request whos shocks went with whos set up.

On to the front end. My front end is completely different in every regard, to any other companies currently on the market. Our TRX Kit has different Camber, Caster, Wheel base, width, stem geometry, and shockmount location than anyone elses components. When designing my products I make a point to make it different in everyway possible while making it perform as flawless as possible. (I appreciate JNWQUADMX's Statement about copying also because those that know my past know that I have been copied, and its disappointing and flattering at the same time.) Also for those who may think that the LTR Spindle swap was a copy on my end. Please feel free to ask JOHN NATALIE about this. I purposed the Idea to him in 2007 while designing his National Champion winning Suspension for His Honda program.

Next, the swingarm. Without giving everyone the blue prints for my rear suspension kit. I can tell you the following. The only thing similar between the JB superlink rear end and The SIX 5 DESIGN rear end is the shock lengths. Our leverage ratio is close yes, but we achieved it in a completely different configuration. The JB link works awesome, that being said we are pleased to have similar motion ratios (as stated before, any rear end that works well will be packing a 2:1 leverage ration as well as a 45 to 50% progressive percentage) Our swingarm is is over .6" different in length. Also our shockmount is over an inch further back and about 1.5" below the JB configuration. In addition both links front and rear are different lengths, approx .5". Our shock mount on the front link is also in a completely different location To add to all that, our design is much different in reqards to materials used, design, and to top it off we are approx 2.5lbs lighter.

To finish up, and I apologize for the long post. Its just when the word (FACT) is thrown out and the proof is there to prove that FACT False. It has to be corrected.

Walsh and JB make great product and I am pleased to be compared. Both companies have put there time in and deserve the praise they recieve. I have been in the shadows for over 10 years designing and building suspension. Six 5 Design is my go at pushing the envolope and building cool parts for an industry that I love.

For anyone that would like to get more in depth with my design process, please contact me at Jake@six5designshop.com or by phone 440 487 0315

[3leggeddog]

Look guys, I never meant any disrespect toward Walsh, or any other manufacture out there. You kids shouldn't get so butt hurt about a little comment like, "all your gonna hear about is Six 5 Design" all I meant was simply that this product is going to get people talking,and look at what we are doing ;-)

Walsh will always sell, helping people win, and always be "talked about" they make great products! If you took my comment out of context, and thot I meant Six 5 was going to put Walsh out of buisness, you misunderstood me.

I will delete the comment in fact, as it seems to come off disrespectful to Walsh, and I dont want that. My bike before this was a Walsh CRF, and I like all the guys at Walsh, as well as their products. We are not out to offend anyone, nor COPY anyone!

I got very lucky in the fact that my current shocks, would work for Six 5 stuff. Let me make it very, very clear. I was not fortunate enough to have anything to do with the design, nor proto type testing of the product. When you call Fox, and order shocks, you recieve an "off the shelf" product. So their part numbers have a range of applications. In fact, the Gibson/ Roll Design part numbers are the same. Does that mean they copied each other? They were both around a long time before Six 5! No, It just means that those front shocks, can work for either application in regards to "the numbers". The rear shock is the same way, the numbers were so close, I lucked out. So, again, none of my parts were used in the development of six 5 designs X level suspension system. There were proto type parts, with 60+ hours of real world testing before I even knew who Six 5 Designs was.


I'll say it one more time for you that don't understand, or appreciate a mans hard work and 100+ hours of COMPUTER time to develop this product, I, nor my parts, had anything to do with Six 5 Designs products. I think Jake laid some numbers out there that prove the difference in the products.

There was a few errors on my part in this thread. Please excuse my excitement to be a part of what I believe to be a great up and coming company. With the economy the way it is, I would hope you all could appreciate the risk, and effort involved with the undertaking of Six 5 design as a company. I would think the industry would have open arms to a new, quality product. I may have overshadowed that with my comments, or how I provided information. I just thot if a guy had a JB, or gibson setup, he would like to know that the part numbers cross reference before he sells his current setup for half of what a new setup cost, like I did :-(

My apologies to Walsh, and to Six 5 for bringing in such controversy. I just truly believe I am blessed with the oppurtunity to be riding the stuff, and my opinion, it's the best stuff out there.

It's an opinion people, don't get bent about it.

[eastside 400]

thank you for clearing it all up, i'm truely sorry about my comments but at the time it did seem funny about how everything was. But after the clear up i understand everything. I used to work for another chassis manufacturer who since went out of business and i have a good understanding for how some of these pop-up companies suspensions are made and that there are alot of copies of good designs out there. Once again, im sorry for accusing of anything but it was just very coincidental. I look forward to seeing the progression of 65, maybe an affordable lowering kit in the future?!?!

[eastside 400]

thank you for clearing it all up, i'm truely sorry about my comments but at the time it did seem funny about how everything was. But after the clear up i understand everything. I used to work for another chassis manufacturer who since went out of business and i have a good understanding for how some of these pop-up companies suspensions are made and that there are alot of copies of good designs out there. Once again, im sorry for accusing of anything but it was just very coincidental. I look forward to seeing the progression of 65, maybe an affordable lowering kit in the future?!?!

[3leggeddog]

Point well taken D n B. I knew some of the things I said were not professional. But I'm human and was ticked off. Post edited to, yet again, not affend anyone. I hate being politically correct

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by 3leggeddog
Point well taken D n B. I knew some of the things I said were not professional. But I'm human and was ticked off. Post edited to, yet again, not affend anyone. I hate being politically correct i deleted my post with the quote ... no evidence.lol

we are all spoksman for the sponsors and sport. try to think of it as a reflection on you as well as the products we represent


but enough of the politically correct talk...
those arms are sick, maybe next year for me, Im hoping he keeps a interest in the 250r, until I can justify a new front end :D

[3leggeddog]

I do understand that and typically I do well with it. Hard to bite the tounge sometimes.

I hope we can see you on some Six 5 stuff someday. There has been some talk to make parts for the 250r. The challenge is to make it different and better then what is currently available, yet affordable. Plus what would be the demand for the product. I think a hybrid frame and componets maybe more of a possibility. Time will tell my friend

Thanks for your Intrest and compliments

[89trx250r]

Problem with a hybrid is 4 strokes are for kids who cant ride 2 strokes...Why not build a cheap stock replacement 250r frame like arens used to do...

[3leggeddog]

let's not turn this into a 2 stroke, 4 stroke debate.

[89trx250r]

No debate here 2 strokes are harder to ride thats a fact...