Getting started in racing?

[JTS72]

Hi folks... my 4 year old son wants to start racing ATVs. I was born and raised around car racing so the ATV race scene is new to me. I personally have raced go karts, race cars and snowmobiles so I am not new to racing in general. The family rides ATVs and we enjoy watching ATV racing... My plan is to start researching some 50cc race quads, get any input from you guys and to go to some races next summer to see what we are getting into. Thought maybe buy him a quad sometime next summer and start racing the following year. What are the quads to look for in the 50cc class? Any help, input, ideas appreciated! Thanks! -Jon

[JTS72]

Sorry I forgot to mention, we would be racing MX.

[chunky0071]

DRR 50!

[Logan #34's Dad]

IF i were getting into atv racing for the 1st time, knowing what i know now. I'd buy a new Cobra. If your budget allows you to purchase the Cobra then I'd highly recommend it. I am a past loyal DRR owner BUT any cvt quad is nothing but a money pit and a maintenance nightmare.
Do yourself a favor, buy a NEW Cobra and save alot of money in the end.
Now, if your not neccessarily sure if he absolutley wanting to race then buy a USED DRR50 and let him ride it around and see how it goes.
The Cobra is a MUCH safer, better handling machine. They make a 70cc Single Speed (Automatic) and you can upgrade the suspension as his skill level rises. You can then replace the engine as he grows and keep using that chassis. Get him using a clutch as soon as possible - that will give him a huge advantage in the future. Dirtbike kids start using a clutch at 4yo so why can't our atv riders.
My 2 cents........ My son is now 13 and we've been doing this since he was 5yo - FYI

[JTS72]

Thank you very much Logan #34s Dad, that is exactly the type of information that I am looking for. Very helpful, I appreciate it!

[Logan #34's Dad]

No Problem. There are some SUPER fast kids from the ole cheesehead area. Go to Youtube and search Sam Rowe and Gunner Tebon(spelling on last name may not be quite right). Gunner is riding a Cobra - if you could "hook-up" with that group - they will take you to the promise land...lol.

Goodluck and get ready to open your wallet....:p

[JTS72]

Lol... I will check it out. I hear ya on the $ part... racing isn't cheap, but it is so damn fun!

[zach R 7x]

Well said Rocky.

The only thing about cobras.... Alot of tracks or sanctioning bodies have no classes for them to run. Check out your local tracks rules for the classes and make sure you can run a cobra.
Good Luck and welcome to the club!!!

[Matt150]

Hey great to see some interest here in Badgerland. We have a group of kids racing over here in La Crosse on DRR's. If you are on this side of the state and think you may run district 23 your kids age means more than anything as to what you can run.
Cool to see that their may be another kid on the track!!

[JTS72]

Matt150, I am from Chippewa Falls so I am not too far from you. I was looking at District 23 and District 16. It looks as if District 16's PeeWee class is stock only. No Cobras, Apex, DRR or other competition machines... I really don't think he will be racing next summer. I would like to attend a bunch of races to see what we would be getting into and to do some talking to people to point us in the right direction. So if we wait another year, he would be 5 when he starts racing. Thanks everyone for the help. I really appreciate it a bunch!

And after looking at the Distric 23 rules, it looks like the little guy would have to run a stock 50 to start with...

[Matt150]

D16 has no mini quads in the motocross series. I just got off the phone with the owner of Sugar Maple MX in Hillpoint and he is going to add minis for his 3 races next year if he gets enough interest over the winter. If you or anybody you know would be interested in running minis their give him a call 608-393-8812 tell him what you think. Met him this summer when i took my 3 boys down too ride. He wants to keep his track open so is willing to try something different than what d16 does, they are talking of eliminating quads all together.
I sponsor a small series in Spring Grove MN and they have two classes of minis we get good turn out ever race but always want more. Motokazie runs in west WI too and they have two classes of minis Stock and Mod.
We also get together and ride at a friends in Whitehall once or twice a week when its warm

[JTS72]

Thanks so much for the info Matt150... I really appreciate it. Maybe you could do me a huge favor? When the schedule comes out for these races, maybe you could just drop me a quick line and give me a heads up. I would love to come to some races and talk to you in person...

[Matt150]

Apr. 22, Aug 7 and Oct. 5th are the dates he told me. Feel free to gimme a call with any questions you have I will do my best to answer 608-780-8118.I've been where you are trying to figure out what quad for what series and what can you do to it. Oh yea been their.
I will be setting up a new DRR for a guy in the next few weeks to run the Sandbox. His boy is also 5 and he's been dealing with the same stuff you are, so he can give you some insight into it too.

[JTS72]

Awesome! Thanks.... What weekend are you guys gonna be at the Sandbox? I would definately head up there and "bug" you a bit... Me & the family went up last weekend in the afternoon to watch....

[RCR_531]

I don't know how far you guys are from Hawkeye Downs in Cedar Rapids Ia and Cattle Congress track but both get a good turnout of 50cc quads. Steve and Tom have boys that race at the Sandbox and are great guys to speak with.

I feel that the CVT doesn't take much more time in maints then the other do. Getting it setup so everything works well takes sometime to do. After that just keeping it clean goes along ways. Springs and rollers wear out and need to be replaced once in a while. DRR and Apex are good Quads to race and if want to race a National race your son could race with the limited but you want to do just local stuff you can go with the Corba because most of the front runners will be on one. Good luck and have fun

[Matt150]

Dec. 19th is the next race. I'm not sure if the boys and I will be their but my buddy will be their with his boy.

[Matt150]

I was wrong next race is Dec. 17.

[ATVMXN 4 FUN]

I would have to agree with Rocky. I bought my son a 50 drr., and quickly saw the advantages of a cobra. My son has been on a cobra since he was 5 years old and it has grown with him. He is now 10 years old and he still rides the same frame. I will say that the cobra seems to fit and last a little better for the smaller kids. Also cobra does offer a 50cc motor package. I believe the 70ss is a little much for a 4-5 year old. (they rip). I have a 4 year old also and he will go straight from a yard quad to a cobra. The yard quad is to learn throttle control. And to further back up Rocky be ready to break out the wallet and never put it back. And if i am not mistaken Gunner is running a Roberts chassis built to cobra specs. ,this is a fully custom built quad all chrommoly, titanium , etc. In other words its bad to the bone and expensive,and can only be ran in a mod class. I hope you and your family go racing it is a great way to spend time with them and you will make memories that will last a lifetime.

[JTS72]

Thanks all for the input... I really appreciate it. I totally agree about the $ part and great family memories. But to me, it would be so worth it. I was racing go-karts when I was a kid and it was a great time that I will never forget all the fun I had with my Mom & Dad... we also meet a ton of great families too!

[EthansDad]

Since Eli's dad chimed in, I'll chime in to for the other side of the fence. Eli's an awesome rider, taking the 50cc SR. national title aboard a cobra 50, so they know what they are talking about. the 50cc SR (the cobra class) at the nationals is for 6-8 yr olds, the 50cc stk limited (DRR class) is for 4-6 yr olds

We' taken the 50cc national title in the stk limited class aboard a DRR 50, so a little different view on things.

I do agree, the cobra's are a better built quad. hands down. however, at that age (my kid started racing at 3), they really won't be using any of those advantages. Us dads see our kids "flying" in our minds, but really we're just happy when they make it around the track safe at that age and have some fun in the process.

The DRR is a safe, stable, race ready platform. they are much less $$, especially used, and yes they do take maintenance, but so do the cobras. I can take a DRR 50, and tune it down, a lot so its easy to ride. in that config, very low maint. I can also switch up the CVT and make it national ready, and in that case, yes, I'm changing lots of springs, but the cobra guys are over there doing their thing too.

The cobra's really shine when they are held "wide open". in my experience, that is hard (and scary) for a 4 yr old to do. since the DRR has a variable transmission, when the kids "blip" the throttle like they do, the bikes still give them a good, fast enough ride.

I think when your kid gets to the point he's holding the throttle wide open 90% of the time on the track and/or his head looks like a bobble head from bouncing around - it might be time to think about a long travel/mod DRR setup or start looking closer at a cobra setup.

here is a bit older video (2010 I think) of the 50cc stk limited (DRR) class running at the nationals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2PCzoNY8D4

[JTS72]

Thank you Ethans Dad... I really appreciate your input. I know with my little guy at his age, it's going to be a learning process for the first few years... so a quad that fits his ability is really what I would want. I plan on going to a bunch of races this summer to see first hand what we would be getting into and to see what everybody is running. Again, thank you so much for the input. It sure is nice to hear from guys that have been in my shoes and to hear what has/has not worked...

[EthansDad]

what ever you end up with, its fun times for the whole family for sure. I remember when my kid was just turning three we were looking at a powerwheels elec atv and I sold mom on the idea it would be cheaper to just buy a gas powered yard quad (china junk). well, we did and here we are. It would have been a LOT cheaper in the long run to buy the powerwheels.....

good investment in family and lifelong memories...at least that what I keep telling myself when I write the checks for the racing program...

[dadofethan47]

Originally posted by JTS72
Thank you Ethans Dad... I really appreciate your input. I know with my little guy at his age, it's going to be a learning process for the first few years... so a quad that fits his ability is really what I would want. I plan on going to a bunch of races this summer to see first hand what we would be getting into and to see what everybody is running. Again, thank you so much for the input. It sure is nice to hear from guys that have been in my shoes and to hear what has/has not worked...

My son also races with matt150 kids in spring grove. They put on a great program. And it's more like one big family, Most people will borrow you parts if you need or info. And it is fairly cheap. The mini quad class there seems to be getting bigger and bigger. I know of 3 new kids that will be racing the 90cc class. As for making the quad work the best. At 4 you could probley leave it alone. Once you get to doing mods to it. and you want to save yourself alot of headaches. Buy an engine kit from G force or Hetrick Or someone that builds and KNOWS HOW TO CLUTCH THESE MACHINES. I had my sons motor built. IT runs great and has great power for a 90 air cooled motor. But it was left to me to figure out the clutching on it. THats where all the $$$$$$$ leave your pocket. and probably a few hairs on your head when you pull them out. When I first started clutching this thing I problably had 2 full days into it. Trying different belts, shims, rollers, springs, ECT. ECT There was a couple of times I was ready to roll it out of the garage smash it with the excavator then set it on fire. But After I got it figured out. The thing runs great all the time and doesnt' go through belts maybe 1 per year. and 1 torqe spring and 1 set of 2000 engagment springs. and 2 sets of rollers. Hope this helps somewhat.

[JTS72]

Thank you dadofethan47! Any and all input is very much appreciated! I will definately have to go to Spring Grove this summer and bug you guys a little... check things out first hand and see for myself what we are going to get into.

[wallred]

Sorry to interupt, but im new to this site and forum, I am looking to get my son into better bigger racing, we race flat track at fairs and stuff on a E ton 70. Wanting to upgrade to drr or cobra just not know what yet, but where can I find info on races and their classes to maybe let son watch unless get one before races start up.

[jay-r]

Where in TN are you located? The Tennessee Motocross Association has a very good youth quad turnout. Check out their website www.tmxa.com.

[wallred]

I in livingston near thunder valley motorcross.

[jay-r]

You are on the opposite side of TN from TMXA. I am sure there are good tracks out your way. You might want to go watch the nationals at Muddy Creek in April. It should be a lot of fun.

[wallred]

Jay-r see you race cobra. Can you give little advice bout them. Trying get son a quad to get bigger in racing, but looking between drr and cobra, nevet been on any quad like these we run E ton. Any suggestions where to start

[jay-r]

Oh, where to start. We ran a DRR for one season, then switched to a Cobra. Each machine has its strengths and faults.

The DRR is a CVT, so it actually shifts out and has a low gear for the starts. Much easier to holeshot on a DRR over a single speed. However, to be competitive, you must learn to tune the CVT. The concept is not difficult, but many times tuning issues will have you chasing your tail. One issue can mimmick another. You have many variables to work with on the DRR. Roller weight, torque spring, gearing, belt, jetting, etc. If one is off, the whole package suffers. When it is right, it is great. But, it can run great in one moto and then have you scratching your head in the next. The frame geometry is not as good as a Cobra, and even with long travel suspension, the DRR gives up some travel to the Cobra. But, there are so many suspension and performance parts available that the DRRs can be built into a great race quad. The DRR is a cheaper platform to begin with, but once built, you will easily have the same or more money in it than a Cobra. The sky is the limit on modding a DRR. But, you can build as you go and as skill level increases.

Now to Cobra. Single speed is much easier to tune. There are many less variables. But, the beginner is going to have a little tougher time adapting to way the Cobra pulls. The DRR has a very linear pull. It hits its rpm and holds it as the CVT shifts out. The Cobra has alot of slip from the stall and then it can hit fairly hard. Alot like riding a shifter 2 stroke in 3rd gear all the time. Take off has alot of clutch slip, then it hits its power and pulls till it runs out of steam. A beginner rider will tend to blip the throttle to control the quad, and this is very hard on the clutch. You have to change the oil after every ride, and gearing is very important for each track. There are nowhere near the aftermarket parts available for the Cobra. Many people run stock a arms, swing arm, and even stock shocks quite competitively. Both quads need the frames gussetted as the rider gets faster. My daughter broke the axle, swingarm, and frame on the stock DRR when she was 5 years old. The Cobra is stronger built, but still needs attention.

You will probably get many opinions on this subject. I am not saying that one is better than the other. They are both very good race quads. Be prepared to spend alot of time and money working on either of them. Both of them can easily go from 50cc to 70cc and then to 90cc on the same platform.

I hope this helps.

[wallred]

It does,thank you. I have in mind cobra but have go to never working on one to one has to be worked on normally, just need read up on normal maintenance and find one that can fit in my budget. Os there any good places look for used ones and whats good things look for on normal ones that will run and not junk

[jay-r]

Cobras are a little harder to find. You can check with Triple A powersports or Heath racing. They both tend to have good used ones.

Things to look for on a Cobra. The early ones had plastic front brake lines and mountain bike brakes. I have heard that these brakes were terrible. The newer ones had stainless steel braided lines and different brakes and were better. The front sperical bearings in the front knuckles get loose pretty regular. We are running JB racing a arms with 400ex spindles and brakes. It eliminates these problems, but it is a heavy setup. Look for frame cracks in the a arm mounting area. Cobra now sells a gusset set for the quad that works really well. Look for cracked swing arm and loose swingarm bushings. The engines are very simple. The main problems there are worn out clutches, drums, and sometimes slippers. These will cause the quad to not pull well, a lot of slipage. Unfortunately, an adult can not very well ride the Cobra. It will burn up the clutch. If you do test ride one, get it rolling before gassing it. All Cobras are the same frame. The only differences in the 70 and 50 setups are the swingarm and motor mounts. The motor mounts bolt on, so it is not a big deal to take a 70 shifter and convert it to a 50 single speed, or visa versa. You can find 50 single speed engines pretty easily and cheaply. The ones from the Cobra bike from 2006 to 2009 are the same engine as the quad. Another note, on a Cobra, you will need a special clutch nut socket and clutch puller as a bare minimum of tools. Optionally a slipper stop and piston stop tool are great to have also.

I know this is a comprehensive list of issues. But, it is not as bad as it sounds. Many of these problems only come along with fast, aggressive riders. Many riders do not have frame, swing arm, or front end issues. I have seen some Cobras in our series that are stock chassis and suspension, with good riders, making some extreme jumps for a mini quad with no trouble.

[jay-r]

Additionally, if you want to get a feel for how the Cobra quads work, go to Cobra's website and look under Tech Support at the owner's manuals. Very good info and pictures to show you what you are looking at.

[Matt150]

The DRR and the Eton have very similar engine, clutch, and transmission setups. They have a number of parts that will interchange. Some guys run Eton gears in their DRR trannys because they used to be stronger and have a quick change sprocket. All of the minis from Tiawan are almost identical.
The DRR has double aarms, thats why I switched from Eton to DRR.

[wallred]

Well cobra is caught my eye, I want best could get for son that I dont have to work whole lot on and still have chance at race if can hold on just whole budget whats even making me think of drr. But if look at drr what are things I need to check before buying?

[jay-r]

I am not the best to answer this. We only ran ours in my daughter's first race season. But, here goes.

The older drrs have a round tube swingarm. They are junk and crack/break. You want one with the square tube swingarm, even though they handle worse, IMO. The gears break. Spin the rear tires with the quad on a stand and see if there are hard spots in the rotation. That means the teeth are cracked and going. Ours did this. Luckily I caught it before they came apart and took the cases. A slipper sprocket is a must. Even with it, I have seen the gears let go. CVT issues are flat spots on the rollers and weak torque spring. Once you start racing very much, you will find that this is a maintenance item anyway. Run the quad until the CVT cover is hot. If it acts like the quad is not downshifting, the torque spring is weak. Some people change these every race. The engines are good, look for typical 2 stroke engine issues. The stock cylinders are as heavy as a boat anchor. Aftermarket aluminum cylinders are much better performance and lighter. Realitively inexpensive too, depending on which one you get. The older stock 50 pipes suck. They are the one piece pipes. The 90 pipe is much better performance. They are 2 piece. The stock axles break. No warning either. Aftermarket axle is the way to go. Check the frames for cracks. They happen everywhere, especially around the rear shock mount, I believe. Don't waste money on aftermarket shocks for standard travel a arms/swingarm, just not enough improvement for the money. Put that money toward long travel IMO. As you can see. Basically you start stock then build as you break things or need more speed/suspension. Best thing is to buy one already setup that has been well maintained. DRRs are a good platform for racing. But if you get serious you basically replace everything. This is the nature of quad racing. The Cobras are a little better package stock. But again, they have issues too. Mainly, getting holeshotted by CVTs.

Good luck in you search. :D

[wallred]

Thank you, it really blowes my mind bout all this, to point I fear of buyin something that im going to have to rebuild all before racing and I know nothing bout a quad mechanics wise.

Something else im wanting take my
Son to mx race to see if he likes it. How do I find out bout races and dates?

[jay-r]

The issues that I posted are things that will happen as the rider really starts riding and jumping hard. In stock form, the DRR is very good for a beginner racer. When my youngest daughter gets ready to start racing, I will probably start with a DRR again. So, don't get too hung up on the upgrades until you see how well your rider takes to racing.

I don't understand why. But it seems local races are a well hidden secret. I believe Fast Farms mx may be close to you. You might search it out on the internet. The ATV National series will be at Muddy Creek in Blountville, TN on April 21 and 22. We are planning to be there. If you want to see some of the best racing and riders on all sizes of ATVs, you should check it out. Your son will probably really enjoy the 50 limited class. They are DRRs that are very close to stock form, www.atvmotocross.com. Also, check on www.midsouthmx.com. A lot of the racing there is west of Nashville, but someone there can help you find races in your area.

[wallred]

Yes will have to make the one in blount have family there. Where do I find bout flat track and tt son really enjoys them

[jay-r]

We have never tried TT or flat track. Not really sure about how to find them.

[wallred]

Ok, thank you for everything, hope to.see yall at races

[hanker]

If you are looking for TT tracks in your area. i know of I-81 Speedway. I think they still have some TT and Short Track races but I'm not sure... The people I know from that area usually race in South Eastern Mo. and NC. NC. is having two EDT Nationals there this summer... Just let me know if you need anymore info.

[wallred]

How do I messure lengths of fourwheeler. Was reading the classes and talk of measure or width and shock and wheel length or something. How is that measured.

[hanker]

You measure across from the outside sidewalls of the front tires. The width of the quad is all they are really worried about.

[jay-r]

The 50 limited class is 4 to 6 year old. Stock a arm and swingarm, stock shock length (aftermarket shocks are legal), stock carb and exhaust, internal motor mods and clutch mods are legal. Length is wheelbase, measured at the center of the wheels, I believe. Ethansdad is the expert on this class. His son is limited class national champion the last 2 years.