Any word on class structure (ama-atva)? [Archive]

Logan #34's Dad

11-09-2011, 07:19 PM

Only IF the cvt is tuned by Bassani Powersports. LOL! I kind of agree with you Don, however, I watched Cory Powers struggle to a top 10 finish in the 90 mod class at loretta's. And he donkey kicked all of the rest of the 90cvt's all year.
I'm ALL for them making the 70/90 Mod class a "shifter" class. But to take away a cvt type of class is NOT the right answer - oops "cat out of the bag".
I believe that if they limit any quad to just one class that it can realistically be competitive in it will crush the sport. I believe the cvt class is where MOST of your eventual "shifter" kids come from. I'd say most cvt dad's wish they had the funds to run a high dollar mod.

thequadfather+2

11-09-2011, 08:52 PM

seriously, who's gonna drive 10-12 hours every race and only get to race one class? You might as well stay home, save the money and race local or regional races. The promoter group sure doesnt seem like they want to grow the sport. I have 2 riders, I cant bring 4 quads to every race...Thats stupid.

Don, even with your tuning skill I dont think a 90cvt is a real threat to win a race in 90mod.... 90 production is a production class, so it will now be a production shifter class?

We will be running a 70cvt this year. The only class available is 70cvt?:eek2:

Logan #34's Dad

11-09-2011, 10:07 PM

They are only rumors as of right now. BUT as we know, once a decision is made it's awful hard to change things. SO, if anyone knows who and how to contact them decision makers please post how to contact them.

Rumor has it, they are going to eliminate the 90 Auto SENIOR class....

My opinion: Leave the Senior class alone - gives the cvt's 2 classes to actually be competitive in. (90cvt, 90Auto) Also a third class (90Mod) IF your brave enough. NOW, since they want to limit the classes they can run in they could make the Production class a 4stroke class. Hear me out on this one - this allows the Yamaha Raptor a place to compete against Honda, Pitster, and the ole 4 stroke cvt's as well(Kymco, Can-Am). And IF the 4stroker's are feeling brave - 90 Mod...
What-cha think? Did you all know that Kymco is the ONLY manufacturer to donate a quad to the youth contingency the last two years????

Obviously the issue is that the cvt's are getting REAL fast and competitive AND can race it a lot more classes then other quads.
What they need to know is that MOST cvt dads wish that could afford the initial expense of a mod. The cvt riders become your mod riders most of the time. IMO

Logan #34's Dad

11-09-2011, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by thequadfather+2
seriously, who's gonna drive 10-12 hours every race and only get to race one class? You might as well stay home, save the money and race local or regional races. The promoter group sure doesnt seem like they want to grow the sport. I have 2 riders, I cant bring 4 quads to every race...Thats stupid.

Don, even with your tuning skill I dont think a 90cvt is a real threat to win a race in 90mod.... 90 production is a production class, so it will now be a production shifter class?

We will be running a 70cvt this year. The only class available is 70cvt?:eek2: .

Well, the 70's can run 70cvt, 70 Auto Jr, 70 Mod(maybe). Cause the 70 Single Speed days are over..... :ermm:
What the promoters don't get is that cvt racing is the beginning of the sport. As kids get better they move into the "shifter" type classes once MOM and DAD believe the rider has the ability and drive.
Squash the cvt's they will slowly squash the sport - IMO.
If there are not enough racers on the line the ole Cobra boys lose their contingency...

don bassani

11-10-2011, 05:36 AM

Hey Rock, high dollar mod !! My cvt 70 was WAY more money than cobra ! Almost no expense for replacement parts either.I think we only have one class for 70 mod also.If they would let 70 cvt back in 90 auto jr you would have your 2 classes for auto's.Hey Rock,just think if Logan was on a shifter you would not have had so many dnf,s and a little extra change in your pocket.If I had let DJ race his cvt in 70 mod class I am pretty sure results would be different.Beginner shifters should not have to race auto's in my opinion.

thequadfather+2

11-10-2011, 06:04 AM

hey Rocky, are you saying there will be a 70 auto jr class? The reason I am asking is because I heard the 70cvt was being kicked out of the 70ss class and that only leaves the 70cvt class for that machine. Sticking your 70cvt in 70mod is like sticking the 90cvt in supermini.

edwardsp&b

11-10-2011, 06:36 AM

Logan #34's Dad

11-10-2011, 07:44 AM

Trust me, I KNOW we end up with more money in a cvt. The difference is the initial cost. I know I built my 2 cvt's as money would allow, I'd buy one part as I got the cash and other part the next time.
I never could have afforded to pay the up front cost to purchase a Cobra or a mod. I'm sure there are many dad's out there in the same boat.

Logan #34's Dad

11-10-2011, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by thequadfather+2
hey Rocky, are you saying there will be a 70 auto jr class? The reason I am asking is because I heard the 70cvt was being kicked out of the 70ss class and that only leaves the 70cvt class for that machine. Sticking your 70cvt in 70mod is like sticking the 90cvt in supermini.

I miss-spoke, there is NO 70Auto Jr. Class. I forgot they changed that last year back to 90cc machines. So, there is only 70cvt and 70mod for a 70cvt. I heard they were taking the 70cvt out of the 70SS class. I'd say a 70cvt could be somewhat competitive overall in the 70 mod class due to the age of the riders. It is easier to ride a cvt for the kids.

FYI, I'm all done with cvt's - I'm piecing together a 90 mod/super-mini. Should be a head turner. If Logan is not good enough on it, we'll stay home and race locally until he is ready.

What do you guys think about the 90 Production class being a 125cc 4 stroke only class?

chunky0071

11-10-2011, 08:27 AM

It all comes down to the sponsor's of the series look at the GNCC there is no mod class for the JB and other shifters you either run a pitster, yamaha or cobra. ATVA MX is slowly going the same way!

zach R 7x

11-10-2011, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
Trust me, I KNOW we end up with more money in a cvt. The difference is the initial cost. I know I built my 2 cvt's as money would allow, I'd buy one part as I got the cash and other part the next time.
I never could have afforded to pay the up front cost to purchase a Cobra or a mod. I'm sure there are many dad's out there in the same boat.

Same here! It's taken me over a year to finish our mod just because I couldn't afford to drop the big coin all at once. Our mod is almost done and I still won't have as much $$ in it as our CVT!

Hetrick Racing

11-10-2011, 11:25 AM

All I can say is rumors are rumors and rumors just upset everyone.
Lets just wait and see what happens

modock84

11-10-2011, 11:31 AM

no cvt in the ss class.... i figured this would happen..... heard enough myself at lorettas about the cvt being in the 50 senior class......its no fair!!!!!!!! lol if u cant beat em join em!

Logan #34's Dad

11-10-2011, 11:36 AM

Rich, the problem with waiting is once its decided, can it be "fixed"? These guys listened to a couple people whine after the banquet and are going to make a decision based off of that.
They need to sit down with people like you, Justin, Gary and others that have their thumbs on the sport NOT us dad's with agendas.

What do you think about the 125cc 4 stroke idea for production? That will open the door for the Raptor and Can-Am and Kymco. And one less class for a 90cvt. (Which seems to be the plan - imo)

Hetrick Racing

11-10-2011, 01:23 PM

ok listen the problem is everyione gets on here and other web sites and ***** and moan instead of attending the meetings,sending the emails to info@atvmotocross.com,or calling atv PG.All the contact info is under contact us at www.atvmotocross.com Talking here is a bit to little a bit to late.
ALL YEAR LONG WHEN YOUR STANDING NEXT THE PEOPLE OR AT THE SAME LOCATION WOULD BE WHEN I WOULD SPEAK TO THEM well as a matter a fact thats what I do!

Besides at this point with no feed back because 3 people have done any of the above well,,,it is what it is at this point

Not to pick on anyone but why would they do that.
Have you any idea what it takes to be a promoter ?
yes they want to have the best classes and races but do ya think all they have to do is sit around and make phone calls to riders and teams to see what they think ?
Again we need to contact them Like I have done for the last 14 years

Logan #34's Dad

11-10-2011, 01:51 PM

Just sent my email...:D

During the season I'd like to know who we are supposed to speak with.... I spoke my piece to Rita Combs(sp) before - is that the correct person? And I'd be willing to bet that the whole time we speak to them in their minds they are thinking "another biatching and whinning mini dad". Why can't the promoter's or whoever decides the classes send out emails for opinions for those in the sport. Not listen to a few people who attended a meeting after the banquet.
All is well UNTIL they start changing things up. So noone says anything throughout the season because all is well because we race with-in those rules. After the season they decide to "change" and no-one knows it until its too late for our input.

Truly, they need to talk with the Hetricks, MaxRpm, G-force, JB racing, Jeff Roberts, Cobra, ect..... The people that are the backbone of the youth sport.....

chunky0071

11-10-2011, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Hetrick Racing
ok listen the problem is everyione gets on here and other web sites and ***** and moan instead of attending the meetings,sending the emails to info@atvmotocross.com,or calling atv PG.All the contact info is under contact us at www.atvmotocross.com Talking here is a bit to little a bit to late.
ALL YEAR LONG WHEN YOUR STANDING NEXT THE PEOPLE OR AT THE SAME LOCATION WOULD BE WHEN I WOULD SPEAK TO THEM well as a matter a fact thats what I do!

Besides at this point with no feed back because 3 people have done any of the above well,,,it is what it is at this point

Not to pick on anyone but why would they do that.
Have you any idea what it takes to be a promoter ?
yes they want to have the best classes and races but do ya think all they have to do is sit around and make phone calls to riders and teams to see what they think ?
Again we need to contact them Like I have done for the last 14 years

I Agree!!

Doug10

11-10-2011, 07:32 PM

I don't have a national question rule change really except for 2 things I have herd for District 13 and AMA/ATVA overall.

I am the parent of a 4yr old who wants to race bigger events next year such as District 13 (although the # of mini's is around 3). Well I saw that they follow all the AMA/ATVA class rules etc...BUT the Limited class is 4yr old to 8yr old which I really got a little upset about.

Don't seem fair for a 4yr old to have to race against an 8yr old. There is a lot of developmental differences there.

Also was told that it was proposed to change the min. competition age from 4 to 6 for 2012 for the AMA/ATVA. Has anyone else herd this or think it could possibly happen?

thequadfather+2

11-10-2011, 08:44 PM

I am the one spending my hard earned coins, how about them coming down off the throne for a minute and posting a poll on their website, or maybe coming here and posting a poll? How about asking for input.

Are we so darn arrogant we can't get in touch with the customer? Do they even know who the customer is?

Sorry Rich, I just disagree. I was at the banquet and saw no one asking for my opinion and I don't remember anyone asking for input. I don't see a problem with venting a little about it on this forum either, it sure beats some of the things on here in years past......

Im just gonna hang out here and piss and moan about it:D :devil:

fastflame1

11-11-2011, 01:18 AM

Everybody needs to call and give there opinions, its not to late. I called Thursday morning to give my opinion on adding a 70 limited class and stating limited classes should be able to change axles. I'm not saying anything is going to change, but i gave my opinion on why there should be 3 limited classes. They do listen I called last year to complain about apex's not being allowed in 50 limited class. They got it right and allowed them this year. Nothing is finalized yet, so I was told. So call and state your opinion !!

Logan #34's Dad

11-11-2011, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by fastflame1
Everybody needs to call and give there opinions, its not to late. I called Thursday morning to give my opinion on adding a 70 limited class and stating limited classes should be able to change axles. I'm not saying anything is going to change, but i gave my opinion on why there should be 3 limited classes. They do listen I called last year to complain about apex's not being allowed in 50 limited class. They got it right and allowed them this year. Nothing is finalized yet, so I was told. So call and state your opinion !!

Call who and what's the number? Who actually makes the decisions on what classes are offered? AMA themselves? ATVA? Promoters Group??? I've been doing this for quite awhile now and I still am not sure..

quadnana7

11-11-2011, 05:48 AM

I believe age separation will help protect the younger riders.
8-11 and 12-15. Also like the idea of a 4-stroke 125 class. Would bring back the fast Honda's and Kymco's. Also more Pitster and Yamaha. Will push Can Am to build Probably see some Suzuki's Polaris makes 4-stroke. DRR has had 4-stroke on back burner for a while. The trend is all going 4-stroke except the minis. Shouldn't upset the builders that already make them quick.Hetrick-Scott Cain Firepower Minis Rage Snyder etc. Should make a class for them. I Will get in touch with them too.

Hetrick Racing

11-11-2011, 07:06 AM

Sorry but they did ask all to attend the meeting Sunday and 3 people attended,,,,
I think just like some others on here said make the calls talk to them .
If you think for one second thats all these people do for a living is atv mx your wrong.

Take the Combs they promote outdoor mx,gncc,atv mx,involved with dist.5, and PAMX.
They have a magazine I mean these people are busy.

I will tell you I used to feel the same way as you do.

Until I started getting involved I didnt see the other side, now I respect them a bunch more.
I have been doin this for over 14 years,trust me they want you to be happy but they can only assume unless you voice your concerns.
They have bent over backwards in the past to get rider response with no result.

Please dont take me the wrong way, we all want whats best for the sport so work together,there is power in numbers!!

Rock.
AMA congress makes the structure for classes and the PG desides on their classes within that structure.
Attend AMA congress or speak to the atv rep. in your district to get changes sent up for discussion.
Then they vote Kinda like the goverment in a way.
Our promoters are only permitted to run classes within that structure.

Your congress member has the biggest voice so either go to your district meeting and speak to him or have one of your local dist.track promoters nominate you to be the representative for the atv's in your dist.then you have a big voice in what happens.

Ron Laurine is my dist rep.you can call him as well.

There is a little more to it than you think but it is not hard to achieve results just a bit of work.

Hetrick Racing

11-11-2011, 07:23 AM

Ok here is a good example
The gentleman is asking about the 50cc 4 to 8 years
Ok the AMA congress made a structure class 4 to 8 .
At the Nationals the PG took that and made a 4 to 6 and a 6 to 8 50cc . So to answer your question Sir.The district in which you race can change the age groups on the class in concern.You have to attend a meeting in your dist.and get a vote set up to weigh the pros and cons and maybe they will make you a divided class.
Its not just one person it is done in group decisions

They can do things like that so some of what you are saying can be done with the PG but some has to be done above them at the AMA.

So with that said
Sam Gammon Pres. PG ---Victory Sports
has a big voice in what happens.
Emails like I said
Carrie Jo Combs Racer Productions
Congress rep from your dist.
Ron Laurine is my rep from D5
Call the AMA they will give you a link or more info than you would ever expect.1-800-AMA-JOIN

Ride1Rob

11-14-2011, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by quadnana7
I believe age separation will help protect the younger riders.
8-11 and 12-15. Also like the idea of a 4-stroke 125 class. Would bring back the fast Honda's and Kymco's. Also more Pitster and Yamaha. Will push Can Am to build Probably see some Suzuki's Polaris makes 4-stroke. DRR has had 4-stroke on back burner for a while. The trend is all going 4-stroke except the minis. Shouldn't upset the builders that already make them quick.Hetrick-Scott Cain Firepower Minis Rage Snyder etc. Should make a class for them. I Will get in touch with them too.

I'm with Gary on this. There shouldn't be any reason that there's no 4 stroke only class with all the options available now. You would think these decision makers would be one step up on making these choices due to what's available to race. Also, they could introduce a 200cc class as a "stepping stone class" for those same 4 strokes to give the kids another option before the 300 class. With Yamaha, Honda, and Pitster already available why not?

Ryko racing

11-14-2011, 07:10 AM

I missed the banquet. I will comment on classes that we participate.

As for the 200 class, i believe that is what the School boy jr class is for. Production based machines.

Raptor 250 honda 250 honda 300 Blaster 200.

Then they give schoolboy sr so the kids at least can race 2 classes if they want to.

It is not perfect but they cant have a class for everyone. We went through this when we rode Cobras. ( the cvt s and Hondas wanted to be split even if the Championship came down to the last moto of the last race at lORETTAS 2 YRS IN A ROW. ( Horton, Brocato.)
( I THINK GILCHRIST WON THE YEAR BEFORE ON A TRX.)

THEY ARE ALL COMPETITIVE IF PROPERLY SET UP.
We dont need more classes, it just makes the weekend longer.
We need full gates and good competiton, this is the Nationals.
It should be extremely hard to win a National championship ( WE ARE STILL TRYING).

Logically maybe a 90 mod jr and sr would work as a lot of 90 mod riders are younger and have a hard time with the qualifiers.
Just an idea... But like Rich said the promoters cant just invent a class without the ATVA approval. Good luck. Lets race.....

LT80

11-14-2011, 07:36 AM

"We dont need more classes, it just makes the weekend longer.
We need full gates and good competiton,--> this is the Nationals.<--
It should be extremely hard to win a National championship ( WE ARE STILL TRYING)."

Well said! Dam well said!!

looking back, When we went thru the motions, There were, 70 and 90 mod, 50 and 90 limited classes.
4 total.
Look at the classes they now have for the mini's.
Now we need a 4 stroke class....wtf
I feel that the PG has listened and acted on the needs.
Rich was correct. A meeting was announced and nobody showed.
A guy said to me "we cannot make classes so every kid can win."
Let's face it, some have tried. :devil: :devil:

Ride1Rob

11-14-2011, 08:27 AM

Last time I checked people raced because they want to win (or the opportunity for that matter). If Jam ever told me he doesn't care about winning or competing then we'd be trail/field riding. I know a handful of kids here in Dade City who's parents have expressed that they'd love to race a Nat but don't due to they don't run 2fasts and the bikes they have in the series here can't compete with them. So guess what? Majority of the ones that go to a Nat go to watch and leave their bikes at home. Maybe that's one of the problems why the gates are getting smaller and smaller for your minis. If the classes you have aren't attractive to the "normal" parent that doesn't attend nats on a regular basis your gates will continue to suffer in my opinion.

Ryko racing

11-14-2011, 08:39 AM

I totally understand that dilemma as for 2 yrs we ran a limited schedule do to the travel and costs.

With that said I thought the turnouts were pretty consistant last year. Maybe the prod auto classes were a little lite .
I feel that from our past situation that even though there was a class that may have been better suited to our budget we still would have not run the WHOLE series.

Unfortunately, the promoters cant make everyone happy but I feel that at least in the last 2 seasons they really are trying.

The only other thing is have qualifiers and run 1 CHAMPIONSHIP F
FINALE... But we dont have enoug numbers Nationwide i am told.

It is getting better in spite of the economy i believe. ( i may be wrong and only time will tell).
I live in a State that virtually has no youth quad racing although they are trying to revive it. My son has no alternative but the Nationals.

Just my thoughts.....

Hetrick Racing

11-14-2011, 08:49 AM

This year Gary,Myself and I think quite a few others got the limited 90 on the schedule.
4 riders showed up
Not that I disagree that we dont race to get 10th but if your kid plays pee wee football they dont split the ages or make up new divisions,do they ?
No the country has changed,im sorry but there can only be one winner and i dont think everyone that shows up should get a trophy.
We have been beaten have been the best one year and not the next,thats why it is called competition.

Maybe the Colts should ask for a different division to play in this year their 0-10....NOT

Ryko racing

11-14-2011, 08:53 AM

WELL SAID RICH. I AGREE.

Ride1Rob

11-14-2011, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by Hetrick Racing
This year Gary,Myself and I think quite a few others got the limited 90 on the schedule.
4 riders showed up
Not that I disagree that we dont race to get 10th but if your kid plays pee wee football they dont split the ages or make up new divisions,do they ?
No the country has changed,im sorry but there can only be one winner and i dont think everyone that shows up should get a trophy.
We have been beaten have been the best one year and not the next,thats why it is called competition.

Maybe the Colts should ask for a different division to play in this year their 0-10....NOT

C'mon Mr. Hetrick... You're comparing peewee football which is a LOCAL football game compared to a National race where one has to spend thousands of $ to compete. Maybe that's why more kids play local fb :ermm: . Or maybe that's why we swap over and race dirtbikes instead... Or one of the reasons ;) . As mentioned before there's only 1 go for it all at Lorettas. Several hundred riders (over 700 this year) spending a full week competing to battle for a National Championship. And in the 50 class they don't race shaft/cvt's driven bikes against shifters.

In my earlier post I said 4stroke but honestly I'd much rather see a "shifter class" somewhat like I proposed in Dade City. 2 stroke or 4 stroke under allowable cc's. That's sparked A LOT of interest in Dade from parents but it wasn't announced until the 1st race of the season. Too late when parents have already dumped $ into other machines.

Hetrick Racing

11-14-2011, 01:16 PM

Listen I have said it and said it.
I am done saying it
Those were examples of making changes so eveyone wins.

It seems that everyone wants them to keep adding classes,they will have to put lights up at each race.There are to many classes now with 10 or less riders in them.
We have to be realistic,what classes would you say they should drop so they could bring others in.
Because thats the only way they will add more.

I raced mx on bikes for years I know all about the classes and what the opinions are.

Racing I agree is not cheap

When Joel was racing the 90 mod on the line with Cody Miller,Thomas Brown ,JR Hinds,Mitch Renolds,Not once did I ask for another class because it wasnt fair.
We Raced and we got our but handed to us although look what it did for him.

Again Im not being rude, but it does no good complaining on here.

Make the calls send the emails,spend some money and get elected to AMA congress
I did exactly that for the last 14 years

IT TOOK 3 YEARS FOR THEM TO ALLOW ME TO SPEAK AT CONGRESS,but i went back every year until they did.

Remember 10 years ago there was no such thing as a 50cc National champion,or 70 or 90 cvt or 70 single speed or actually hardly any quad racing for youth at all.
The promoters have like I said tried to listen, the problem is everybody hits them for what is best for their rider, not for the sport !

Again there is power in numbers

Ride1Rob

11-14-2011, 03:17 PM

I don't take it as you're being rude at all. Just stating what your opinion is as I'm doing the same. We don't have a dog in the fight as our ATV days are done and over with. It was asked in a public forum and I gave my opinion.

Ypou state about Joel gettn his but handed to him some years back. Lol, we've been in the same situation as well. I never fought for us to race another class. We were wanted out of the class once my son became more competitive against older kids on cvt's. Quite a few guys here know my story and know what I stand for as well.

As for what classes I'd say to eliminate I won't. But I will say that you can't honestly tell me that with all the mini non shifter classes there isn't one that can be eliminated for the only shifter class. I'd also be willing to bet most of these parents reading this would love to run their kids in such a class.

EthansDad

11-18-2011, 12:30 PM

Some good points here. I'll add the year before last I helped get the 50cvt class added. Started here with discussions and opinions. We did an online pole/vote here and a number of folks voted and picked the class they wanted. I actually wanted a different class, but since the masses wanted 50cvt i jumped on that bandwagon. It was best for the sport if lots of folks would show/race. Next, we all got organized on emailing the atva with the same ask for the 50 cvt class.

From their point of view, they saw 10-15 people all asking for the same saying if added, they'd race it. We made so much waves at atva that at awards that year they said "we hear you 50cvt parents, stop emailing us". Class added, people showed up, atva got their money. I bet they'd do that again if it was done that way.

Also like rich said, timing is everything. We made our email rush on them in sept, before banquet.

Logan #34's Dad

11-18-2011, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by EthansDad
Some good points here. I'll add the year before last I helped get the 50cvt class added. Started here with discussions and opinions. We did an online pole/vote here and a number of folks voted and picked the class they wanted. I actually wanted a different class, but since the masses wanted 50cvt i jumped on that bandwagon. It was best for the sport if lots of folks would show/race. Next, we all got organized on emailing the atva with the same ask for the 50 cvt class.

From their point of view, they saw 10-15 people all asking for the same saying if added, they'd race it. We made so much waves at atva that at awards that year they said "we hear you 50cvt parents, stop emailing us". Class added, people showed up, atva got their money. I bet they'd do that again if it was done that way.

Also like rich said, timing is everything. We made our email rush on them in sept, before banquet.

^^^Well aren't you the organized one.....:devil: ^^^

Anyhow, part of the reason I brought this whole thing up was to get input and see if anyone knew if the "rumors" were true that they were going to eliminate the 90 Auto Sr. class as I was told and get ahead of it before the promotors eliminated it. The problem is the promotors do not get enough input from the people that are racing AND MOSTLY the teams/shops that support the youth classes. Its my understanding that at the "after the banquet meeting" one shifter dad complained that his new shifter rider should not have to race against Grayson Eller on Grayson's cvt quad... the ball started rolling from there.

Rich, or whoever, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the 90 Auto classes originally designed for the Honda trx125's and like machines? Then the mess with the whole idle in gear issue came up with the Cobra automatic builders versus the Honda builders. Now that these 90cvt's are in the class - the Honda does not have a chance (unless your rider is very very talented) and there are a ton of very expensive Honda machines and riders that are staying home or current racers that leave that machine at home. Trust me, my 90 2fast will crush this built Honda that I have now in a straight line and it's not an Automatic by rule) OR THEY COULD BUMP THE 4 STROKE CC LEVEL TO LIKE 145....

If the people and the promotors want to eliminate a class for the cvt to compete in because there are too many that a cvt qualifies for then that's why I purpose making the Auto class OR the Production class a 4 stroke class (not adding or subtracting a class). People could dust off those Hondas, Kymcos, Pitsters, Typhoons and then Can-Am and Yamaha could enter the class. IMO, its a win for the promotors and the engine shops (4 stroke builds are not cheap).

OR heres a thought: put a "NO CVT's" label on certain classes...

I say replace the 90 Limited with the 0-125cc 4 stroke Production class and make the Modified classes "shifter".........and leave everything else alone.

Ride1Rob

11-18-2011, 10:13 PM

Makes perfect sense! But believe it or not there are a few that don't want to see anything but cvt's on the gates. Would take away quite a bit of money out of their pockets in parts (belts, springs, rollers, etc...) It's a tall order for kids on a mini shifter bike to compete against a 2fast. In Dade City they stacked a 9 yr old and a 10yr old on their 2 fasts on the gates with the youth class 300cc riders and they beat half the damn field :eek2: . If I remember correctly one got a 3rd and the other got a 5th.

coffing918

11-19-2011, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
^^^Well aren't you the organized one.....:devil: ^^^

Anyhow, part of the reason I brought this whole thing up was to get input and see if anyone knew if the "rumors" were true that they were going to eliminate the 90 Auto Sr. class as I was told and get ahead of it before the promotors eliminated it. The problem is the promotors do not get enough input from the people that are racing AND MOSTLY the teams/shops that support the youth classes. Its my understanding that at the "after the banquet meeting" one shifter dad complained that his new shifter rider should not have to race against Grayson Eller on Grayson's cvt quad... the ball started rolling from there.

Rich, or whoever, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the 90 Auto classes originally designed for the Honda trx125's and like machines? Then the mess with the whole idle in gear issue came up with the Cobra automatic builders versus the Honda builders. Now that these 90cvt's are in the class - the Honda does not have a chance (unless your rider is very very talented) and there are a ton of very expensive Honda machines and riders that are staying home or current racers that leave that machine at home. Trust me, my 90 2fast will crush this built Honda that I have now in a straight line and it's not an Automatic by rule) OR THEY COULD BUMP THE 4 STROKE CC LEVEL TO LIKE 145....

If the people and the promotors want to eliminate a class for the cvt to compete in because there are too many that a cvt qualifies for then that's why I purpose making the Auto class OR the Production class a 4 stroke class (not adding or subtracting a class). People could dust off those Hondas, Kymcos, Pitsters, Typhoons and then Can-Am and Yamaha could enter the class. IMO, its a win for the promotors and the engine shops (4 stroke builds are not cheap).

OR heres a thought: put a "NO CVT's" label on certain classes...

I say replace the 90 Limited with the 0-125cc 4 stroke Production class and make the Modified classes "shifter".........and leave everything else alone.

I like that Idea

eightysix86

11-19-2011, 05:52 PM

I second that!!! Then people woundnt be losing there *** saleing off there hondas and such! We have never raced a national ,but would like to! We have to run what we got. I cant afford anything else. We could take all the ones on the classifeids here and have a full 125cc gate!!

jake55

12-15-2011, 01:32 PM

2012 classes are posted.

Logan #34's Dad

12-15-2011, 02:05 PM

I like what I see.....

Ryko racing

12-15-2011, 03:54 PM

where are they posted

chunky0071

12-15-2011, 04:10 PM

http://www.atvmotocross.com/pages/amateur-racers/2012-national-classes

rd2005

12-15-2011, 05:48 PM

So please help me to understand this class now that the 90CVT Limited class has been removed: 90 CVT (8-15)
Production 71-90cc 2-Stroke, 125cc 4-Stroke, Belt-Drive.

The Supplemental Rules for 2011 state:
3. Production Rule: OEM motor and matching frame combination model required. Frame geometry must remain as designed by the OEM, including all suspension pivot points. Material may be added for strength but not removed from the OEM frame. Engine modifications, frame reinforcements, and aftermarket A-arms, swing-arms and suspension are permitted. No engine displacement reduction permitted.

What does all this mean?
What will I have to do now to my kid's bike to at least allow him to attempt to keep up with the pack?

Now onto my RANT....We were wanting to race only the 90 CVT Limited Class...our son is not ready to be thrown into the Lion’s Den of National Riders. He gives everything every time he rides but dam this is scary as a parent!
You might not like my opinion but I am very disappointed with this class being removed. Nationals is about $$$ and we are just a simple family with a kid who loves to race. This was a class that we felt comfortable for him to race in & felt it was a place for a non national rider to start in. The local tracks here are not the greatest for developing tomorrow’s racers & it’s the same thing every week! The 90 CVT limited class offered him a chance to compete in the big races with other riders at his level. I just want to throw my hands up and just say @#^* IT!!!! :mad:
No it's not about winning! Yeah of course it would be wonderful for my kid to win but it ultimately it comes down to a safety issue for me. Also FYI: We did not sit on our hands & do nothing & now complaining. We called the ATV MX & requested that they keep the 90 CVT Limited class. We also know of others who did the same. To me this class was a place to start for kids like mine. :(

Ryko racing

12-15-2011, 06:13 PM

I think you would be eligible for 90 auto jr class as well as 90 cvt.

the promoters i was told were trying to keep the day from getting longer but still having the classes set up so most riders could race 2 classes.

I dont know the numbers but i heard it said that the limited class was not full last year. ( i understand your situation as we started nationals in 2007 and had 90 cvt and 90 mod).
it was very difficult and took about 2 seasons to be a top 5 racer.
ACTUSLLY WE GOT INTO THE 70 SS CLASS AND IT WAS REALLY FAIR AS THE CLASS IS BASICALLY GOVERNED AND COBRA ONLY.....
MAYBE THATS AN OPTION .

Dont give up you might find that it works for your racer. Remember riding with faster riders will help your rider improve at a faster pace. ( the kids will still have fun...)

tAKE IT FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN IN YOUR SHOES. iT WILL BE FUN...

quadrider79

12-15-2011, 06:18 PM

Well Rob, looks like you were the first to see it and post that the classes were up.
I like how the ATVA posted the classes on the 8th, kinda hidden. Did anyone read where it says all classes are tentative for ONE week. Looks like that ONE week is up. I know I for one was watching to see it posted on the main page. Guess that's not going to happen. :devil: :mad:

rd2005

12-15-2011, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Ryko racing
I think you would be eligible for 90 auto jr class as well as 90 cvt.

the promoters i was told were trying to keep the day from getting longer but still having the classes set up so most riders could race 2 classes.

I dont know the numbers but i heard it said that the limited class was not full last year. ( i understand your situation as we started nationals in 2007 and had 90 cvt and 90 mod).
it was very difficult and took about 2 seasons to be a top 5 racer.
ACTUSLLY WE GOT INTO THE 70 SS CLASS AND IT WAS REALLY FAIR AS THE CLASS IS BASICALLY GOVERNED AND COBRA ONLY.....
MAYBE THATS AN OPTION .

Dont give up you might find that it works for your racer. Remember riding with faster riders will help your rider improve at a faster pace. ( the kids will still have fun...)

tAKE IT FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN IN YOUR SHOES. iT WILL BE FUN...

Thanks for the positive comment. Figured someone would just eat me for lunch leaving my frustated rant for a class that most folks could care less about. My boy just turned 12 so the jr class is out. But what is the difference between the 90CVT production & the limited class? thanks

Ride1Rob

12-15-2011, 08:46 PM

Looks like they did do some listening. Good luck shifter parents ;)

Logan #34's Dad

12-15-2011, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by rd2005
Thanks for the positive comment. Figured someone would just eat me for lunch leaving my frustated rant for a class that most folks could care less about. My boy just turned 12 so the jr class is out. But what is the difference between the 90CVT production & the limited class? thanks

If he is 12, he will be just fine in the 90cvt class and the Auto Sr. class. As Ryko said, he will get faster racing with faster kids. Of course your going to have to open up your wallet to be able to be in the top 10...(remember - suspension FIRST)
The 90 Production class does not allow cvt's now so your limited to the above mentioned classes and 90 modified.
The difference between the 90cvt and the 90 limited is mainly engine modifications. Limited basically was a stock machine with just a few allowed modifications. 90 cvt is full blown race quads with stock cases and stock frame.
The limited class just did not have enough entries or interest to continue it.