I give up, have fuel, have spark, no run :/

[Thumpin440ex]

Lets start.. Pulled the clutch today.. Scuffed the steels, shimmed the springs.. Put it all back together.. decided to pull the carb to clean it, set the needle.. It is all back together and for the life of it will not fire.. Just added a fresh plug.. So I have spark, have fuel, but no fire.. I have the intake boot off along with the rear plastics.. I am noticing while cranking that some fuel is spitting out the back(intake) side of the carb but think it has always done this.. I couldn't have possibly thrown this thing out of timing when I did the clutch?? I have done a bunch of clutches in these and never had this.. I thought the only way to mess with timing was to physically move the timing chain out a tooth?? Any input would be great.. I am getting fed up here..

John:mad:

[01boneless]

check the plug and see if it fouled it out (rich) if not sounds like timming to me but for the life of me i dont see how it could be out? check small things also if you was in a hurry kill switch, plug wire, ect... if the timming is dead on id set the needle back where you had it and see what she does :confused:

[Baileygunns]

Put the filter and intake tube back on.... You're probably to lean. Nothing with the clutch will mess with timing

[Thumpin440ex]

I have checked over every thing.. After pumping the throttle a few times while cranking it back fired.. I next took the AF screw and ran it all the way in, then v=backed it out 1 3/4 turns.. After cranking for a few it fired up but instantly reved up.. I shut it down then checked to make sure the idle knob was out, it was.. Also the slide in the carb is in the seated position.. That made me think of a possible vacuum leak, so I checked the intake boot and carb, it is fine.. I duno wth is going on but this thing just got a case of the *** on me..


John

[Thumpin440ex]

Boot is back on filter is back on, same thing.. I guess I am going to have and get that 52 pilot tom, replace this 48.. Def a back fire, which sounds lean, because it only does it when I pump the throttle a few times while cranking.. Still not running.. If its not that I dunno, but would figure it would atleast start.. I am going to wear the starter out cranking this POS..



John

[honda400ex2003]

you can go out to 3 turns out or 3.5 turns out on your f/a and see if it will help at all.

a 52 is ideal though.

steve

[Thumpin440ex]

Out is rich in is lean correct?? I am truly fuggin stumped..
John

[honda400ex2003]

yeah out will richen it up. with a 48 you are too lean thus going out on the screw will richen it up.

if you are still at 1.75 turns out you are way way lean for starting it up cold.

steve

[CJM]

Yep, out is richer.

[Thumpin440ex]

Yah it always was a pita to start when it was cold since it has been back together.. Today it was not bad(50 or so) out but still wouldn't start.. Now that I took the clip from the closest notch to the needle point to the middle of the notches, I am guessing it leaned it out even further.. So I will try 3.5 turns out tom, if that doesn't do it i will do the 52 pilot and try again.. I had a few more back fires out the pipe, it fired up again after some pumps of the throttle.. When it did it revved high with a closed throttle.. I shut the key off then back on and it revved back up.. That tells me it is extremely lean( I am thinking anyway) Does that sound like I am on the rite track?? I am not a freaking moron but this thing is making me feel like one.. Just weird it went from hard starting to not starting..

John

[honda400ex2003]

what are your specs here jetting wise and motor wise?

lol i forgot to look and im not going to go back through both of your threads.

steve

[honda400ex2003]

id start at 180 main, 3rd notch, 52 pilot, 2.5-3 turns out with the 440 and such that you have in there.

steve

[Thumpin440ex]

Main jet has been fine.. It is a k185 secondary is 72( stock in the 04-05 carbs) Pilot is a stock 48.. Needle is on the 3rd clip now(center) AF screw is 1 3/4 out( needs to come out alot)

Thanks a seet ton :D


John

[honda400ex2003]

that will work i was just curious to see since you adjusted your needle out of what seemed like no reasoning at all from what i found. i didnt read it all word for word though tonight. i have been doing a bunch of different stuff. haha i was also curious why it was down on the 5th notch. that is very low and very rich for any needle in these carbs.


get that 52 and go 2.5 and see how she does then :D

steve

[honda400ex2003]

even learned what a secondary jet is and what the 72 is lol. never heard of anyone even messing with that let alone knowing a number of it.

steve

[Thumpin440ex]

LOL thanks man.. Yah I bought this carb used from a guy on here, never checked the needle.. I slapped it on the bike with a 185 main in it, adjusted the af screw.. That was last april, so it was warm.. It started, starts ok in the warm weather, fires up instantly when the bike is hot.. But when the weather gets cold it is a PITA, today it didn't at all, even cranking the hell out of it.. I was thinking maybe I put the carb back together wrong, but no left over parts, everything when back where it belonged.. So only thing now is that me moving the clip out leaned it, the pilot is already lean, the af screw is lean.. I knew the jetting was out a little from the get but not to this point..Hope the new pilot helps.. I will keep this thread posted..

THANKS AGAIN


John

[honda400ex2003]

it doesnt matter how lean your needle is right now. only that your pilot and f/a are so far off you could drive a bus through there and not hit the fuel.

lol it is that time of year to start richening up for cold if you plan to ride. mine are put away now or i would be messing with them a bit. i turn my f/a out another half turn for winter and use my choke on the 450 carb by taking the seat off and lifting it with my finger.

i would also suggest that as a test if needed. I usually pump mine 5-6 times start it and if it pops off a bit and dies ill pump it a few more times and lift the choke after it fires up again.

steve

[Thumpin440ex]

Yah I hear ya, but just strange that it was fine last year, as it would start, but now(esp after messing with the clutch) That it is messed up.. Gona give it a shot tom..


John

[honda400ex2003]

weird stuff lol make sure it is in neutral when you try to start it and it shouldnt matter if your clutch is working or not.

if it keeps revving by itself i would start to question if it was installed correctly but its hard to say without it actually running decent now.

steve

[Thumpin440ex]

I am at a freaking loss here.. I have went back through every thing again.. Still have not put the 52 pilot in but it should have atleast tried to start.. I am getting a back fire out of the exhaust still, now some times out of the intake ever so slightly.. I guess I am going to try new gas in it.. I did find small trace of water in the carb, but totally cleaned it and went over it again.. Its driving me nuts..

AND WE ARE SURE THAT THE CLUTCH CHANGE OR FIX HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TIMING OF THE BIKE?? I am certain it doesn't but it is seeming like it could be..


John

[honda400ex2003]

did you take the sprocket off for the chain? I dont recall taking the sprocket off when i did it but it has been a few years for me.

take the timing plug out and check to see if you have gaps in the tappets and such for the cam.

steve

[powerbomb400]

Have you tried spraying starter fluid in the intake to see it will fire. If all the marks lined up its should be in time. Is it possible that the CDI went bad on you?

[Thumpin440ex]

No the only thing that was taken off was the clutch, basket.. I did take the oil pump gear off, because it will fall off other wise.. It only goes on one way as that shaft is a d shape.. Other then that I did not do anything. Here is the pic.. Again only took what I mention off.. When removing the crank(clutch nut) the engine did spin some, but that still should not have any affect on timing as I never removed the gear for that.. :/ Is it possible that a wire in the stator might have came loose?? Bike has good spark though..

John

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/mangler0075/Random/side.jpg

[Thumpin440ex]

well don't ask me but the damn thing decided it wanted to start.. I went through every thing again, carb, fuel lines, plug, ignition, stuck it back together, it fired.. Def noticed the starter bogging, so I think it is time for a new one, come to think it was prob a starting issue from the very get.. None the less I got a 52 jet but it is the longer series one(still the same length that screws in just more sticking out the back) Put it in, tried again, it seems to start easier.. Thanks for all the help.. I know i sounded like some kind of crazed tard..


John

[honda400ex2003]

glad you got it fixed and put the 52 in there. 3-5 pumps should get you going now with the 52. if not go out another half turn and you should be set then for the cold stuff.

steve

[BlasterEaten250]

It is possible the first time you cleaned the carb a piece of dirt got lodged somewhere unknowingly and clogged things up, and it just now finally cleared up. You'd be surprised what a tiny little piece of dirt or grime can do to a carb!