06 trans issues

[fomospede]

OK I'm losing. 1st too second starting. To drop out of second
What's. Wrong and who makes the better gears?
Thanks for input!

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by fomospede
OK I'm losing. 1st too second starting. To drop out of second
What's. Wrong and who makes the better gears?
Thanks for input!

Baldwin Racing makes billett gears if you got the bucks. I think a set will run you about $2,000.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by fomospede
OK I'm losing. 1st too second starting. To drop out of second
What's. Wrong and who makes the better gears?
Thanks for input! its the dogs on the 2nd gear, that's the most common failure on many quads, you can have the gears cryoed, or just replace the 2nd gear

it is caused from the high rpm and torque applied to that gear, the higher gears dont usually see that much abuse

[Rich250RRacer]

Lots of speculation and myth as to transmission failures on the 06 and newer 450r's. The following is from a previous post of mine, and this covers the primary reason for transmission failure.

"There's a rather odd but legit reason for tranny failures on the 06-newer 450R's. This comes from one of the top engine/suspension builders in the country. I was told that it's not necessarily weakness in the transmission or rider error, but rather a weak shifter return spring (the spring that is located on the shift shaft). It is probably more of a problem with more aggressive riders riding on rougher terrain. The weak spring lets the shifter bounce in rough situations, causing the tranny to try to shift by itself, usually under acceleration. This causes the gear dogs to lash together, causing extreme wear, and eventual transmission failure."

[beyer05]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
its the dogs on the 2nd gear, that's the most common failure on many quads, you can have the gears cryoed, or just replace the 2nd gear

it is caused from the high rpm and torque applied to that gear, the higher gears dont usually see that much abuse

Anyone sell the second gear already back cut and treated. My tranny looked great except this one gear and I would like to replace it with something better without buying the whole trans from Baldwin.

[JH Racing]

when you back cut the gears all the gears have to be done or atleast the gears that engage into each other.

[dyno]

The factory gears were not hardened enough from the factory and replacements from Honda haven't been upgraded!
Probably made in China to save costs!

[fomospede]

thanks guys
this machine has over 300 hrs of hard use on stock gears
think i will just use stock oem replacements
im gonna tear it down after crawfordsville

[Rich250RRacer]

OK nobody wants to acknowledge my post on this so I will offer this, call Laz at GT Thunder and tell him you are having transmission issues with your 450R. While he is better known as a suspension man, his work with engines has been extensive and he is highly experienced. I know Laz very well and I had a face to face discussion with him regarding 450R transmission problems I've seen come though my small home shop, some of which have been repeat customers. He was determined to find not only a fix for the tranny issues, but also the cause. After testing, and he does test thoroughly, he found he could destroy a brand new transmission within an hour just by riding it a certain way, in certain terrain. And the cause of this is the weak shifter shaft spring, letting the shifter bounce. He also told me that back-cutting the gears is not an end-all fix for the problem. Laz sells a heavier spring to correct the problem, that if used with a stock transmission, will greatly increase transmission life. And if used with the back-cut or billet gears, will make it better yet. Nobody here has offered anything solid as to a cause of trans failures except for "they're not hardened enough", so it's your choice as to use this bit of information. I think it's worth it to try this rather than say "maybe I should have tried it" when you're staring at a pile of scrap that used to be your transmission.

[Scro]

Originally posted by Rich250RRacer
OK nobody wants to acknowledge my post on this so I will offer this, call Laz at GT Thunder and tell him you are having transmission issues with your 450R. While he is better known as a suspension man, his work with engines has been extensive and he is highly experienced. I know Laz very well and I had a face to face discussion with him regarding 450R transmission problems I've seen come though my small home shop, some of which have been repeat customers. He was determined to find not only a fix for the tranny issues, but also the cause. After testing, and he does test thoroughly, he found he could destroy a brand new transmission within an hour just by riding it a certain way, in certain terrain. And the cause of this is the weak shifter shaft spring, letting the shifter bounce. He also told me that back-cutting the gears is not an end-all fix for the problem. Laz sells a heavier spring to correct the problem, that if used with a stock transmission, will greatly increase transmission life. And if used with the back-cut or billet gears, will make it better yet. Nobody here has offered anything solid as to a cause of trans failures except for "they're not hardened enough", so it's your choice as to use this bit of information. I think it's worth it to try this rather than say "maybe I should have tried it" when you're staring at a pile of scrap that used to be your transmission.

Do you know if the 04/05 shift spring is heavier, or if they are interchangable?

[number52]

Good read, but I've heard of a different problem than the shifter return spring being too weak. There should be a kit for this by the end of the year. I can't say who or what the problem is but there are some pro riders using it at the moment with good success.

I don't doubt Laz one bit, I know him personally too. But I'm trying to picture in my head why a heavier spring on the shift shaft would fix the problem. I fully understand what you're saying but shouldn't the shifting star detents hold the shift forks in place? I'll have to look next time I have an 06 450R apart to see how far the shift shaft can move before it starts to move the shift fork and begins to disengage the two dogs.

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by number52
Good read, but I've heard of a different problem than the shifter return spring being too weak. There should be a kit for this by the end of the year. I can't say who or what the problem is but there are some pro riders using it at the moment with good success.

I don't doubt Laz one bit, I know him personally too. But I'm trying to picture in my head why a heavier spring on the shift shaft would fix the problem. I fully understand what you're saying but shouldn't the shifting star detents hold the shift forks in place? I'll have to look next time I have an 06 450R apart to see how far the shift shaft can move before it starts to move the shift fork and begins to disengage the two dogs.

As soon as the drum starts to move would probably be enough to let gears lash together, and the drum starts to move pretty quick. I never thought the weight of an aluminum shifter would be enough to cause this, but that spring must be pretty weak. I'd like to see this other solution you're talking about, anything that increases reliability is a plus to me.

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by Scro
Do you know if the 04/05 shift spring is heavier, or if they are interchangable?

Try matching them up, and while your at it, mic the wire diameter. I installed one of Laz's springs on a recent tranny job and it was noticably heavier, even by eye.

[desratt]

Baldwin sells the tranny in stages. I had the weak shifter spring also. Found out my shift shaft was very slightly bent. So it put just enough drag it wouldn't return.

[mx Eli]

Good info coming up on this thread. subscribing

[ds268]

This is quite interesting so far. In my experiences, it's third and fourth gear dogs fail the quickest with little wear to first and second in comparison. I haven't heard of the spring being the weak link and in fact talking with Baldwin about a set of billet gears last week, they didn't even mention the spring having a weak force.

The simple, best thing you can do to these transmissions are to have the dogs back cut (which would seem to artificially act as a more stiff spring by keeping the gears engaged better??). While you're at it, there is the option for cryogenically treating them which I've heard mixed thoughts on but it's not an expensive process and should help. I have had my trans back cut, cryo treated and ISF polished. Even so, after 2 years of hard duning and hillshooting, the majority of the wear is on the 3rd and 4th gear dogs. The ends of the dogs aren't too rounded but the engagement faces are mashed like crazy like they have been slammed together.

Don't ever see this in the earlier trx's transmissions though. Could be material differences as mentioned before. Too bad they're not interchangeable. Billet is cool but 2k is just a bit over my buget considering.

[number52]

I wish I could post the solution that I know of because it would make perfect sense to the real cause for the problems you're describing.

[mx Eli]

Originally posted by number52
I wish I could post the solution that I know of because it would make perfect sense to the real cause for the problems you're describing.

let us know when this "salution" is out please?

[desratt]

my problems are usually 4th then third too. starts hitting a false neutral, then a few months later you lose the gear all to gether.
I see how the weak spring would let it grind a little before engaging.

have went through 4 tranny rebuilds first it took about a year between now it is down to about 3 months between. mark said the faster you get the faster you will go through them. but I ride 2 hours a day all week and race every weekend. so my bike gets serious hours.