426 vs 440

[400exshop]

My 426 is done , we took it to the track sat. and ran it for the first time . Man it is slow as hell.... so maney say the 426 is faster then the 440 but there is no way. The 426 went 8.98 in the 1/8 mile my 440 went 8.30 in the 1/8 mile with the same rider.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by 400exshop
My 426 is done , we took it to the track sat. and ran it for the first time . Man it is slow as hell.... so maney say the 426 is faster then the 440 but there is no way. The 426 went 8.98 in the 1/8 mile my 440 went 8.30 in the 1/8 mile with the same rider.

This is pretty vague. Maybe if you gave some build specs on each we could tell you what is going on. There is so little info, I can tell you nothing more than that.

[chronicsmoke]

They rev faster.. i don't know about being faster in general though..

[426kidz]

smoked a 440 with my motor and its all about gearing just buy my motor so i can build a hybrid and you can beat 440's;)

[honda400ex2003]

subscribed for as much info comparing the setups and such as you have eric. this could be a good article. i dont remember what you had with your 440. do a direct comparison between them with specs and such if you can. Did you have hp numbers from the 440?

steve

[400exshop]

426 set up,,,,,
JE pistion 11.1 comp, web 1 cam, ported head, hmf pipe, 39mm fcr carb, gearing 16/32

440 set up,,,,
wisco pistion 12.5.1 comp, stage 2 hot cam, ported head, hmf pipe, 39mm fcr carb, gearing 16/32

The 426 has a better cam and lighter pistion.

Steve the 440 put out 42 1/2 HP on motor and 72 on nos at EHS Racing dyno in Rockingham NC. Have not put the 426 on the dyno yet.

If you or any one eles needs any more info just ask . Ill do what i can.

[honda400ex2003]

do you plan on dynoing the 426?

will be a good comparison to see how it goes. why did you go 11:1 on this one?

just curious since i forgot lol
thanks for the info,
steve

[01boneless]

well duh 11;1? and the 440 had 12:1 there the first thing it had higher compression and a stage 2 instead of a stage 1. and you ran the same gearing for a lower power bike ? imho it done dang good for the setup you cant expect it to run with a 440 with more comp and a better cam ? and same gearing lol
lol not by any chance do i know everything but this is kinda commo sence lol

[400exshop]

Originally posted by 01boneless
well duh 11;1? and the 440 had 12:1 there the first thing it had higher compression and a stage 2 instead of a stage 1. and you ran the same gearing for a lower power bike ? imho it done dang good for the setup you cant expect it to run with a 440 with more comp and a better cam ? and same gearing lol
lol not by any chance do i know everything but this is kinda commo sence lol A stage 2 hot cam is not as good as a stage 1 web cam so you can through that out the window, the 440 is 12.5.1 not 12.1 ,,,, To steve yes we do plane on getting the 426 to the dyno soon. the reason for the 11.1 is to spray a bigger shot of nos..... They say not to spray a high comp motor,,,, they say to spray a low comp motor and it will be faster but have not seen it get......

[400exshop]

p.s please read the whole post befor you reply. and make shoure you unstand what it is saying. Thanks EJRacing.

[honda400ex2003]

sounds cool man, cant wait to hear the results. im interested to see how that web cam runs, ive heard alot of good things from it but no one around here really runs it any more. a while back there were a few guys running them and liked them alot.

steve

[400exshop]

Steve, I can see you have some EHS stuff on your bike. lol fixed now.

[honda400ex2003]

ah not sure on that one lol lol

i like my lid, seems to keep the water out and such, ive sprayed it with a hose while washing and didnt have anything in the box when i took it off. im sure if it was running it would suck some in though.

but no you cant have my lid lol

figured i had better cover 2 of the thoughts on what that could be lol. ill fix it after a possible edit.

steve:blah:

[Ntensweapon]

I recently pulled my hot cam out and replaced it with a web cam. It's like a totally different bike now. The cam is way smooth,quiet and power just comes on.

[CJM]

which webcam did you get, and did you need hardfaced rockers?

[Ntensweapon]

Originally posted by CJM
which webcam did you get, and did you need hardfaced rockers?


479..I didn't do hardened rockers. I asked about them. My engine builder wasn't concerned. I questioned that and did a little research on my own. A very big name reputable engine builder that uses web cam exclusively said if you're running good synthetic oils they weren't required. I use Red Line...

My engine guy knows I have the money to spend. If he thought they were necessary he would have sold them to me.

With that said, believe me I will keep an eye on them.

[Thumpin440ex]

I am curios as to how the oil can make a difference of if you need hardened rockers?? The web cam has better, or more aggressive lobes on it. lift ect which would require the hardened rockers.. Jus saying, I do not buy that, or I would have def went web cam over a hot cam..



John

[Ntensweapon]

I had some doubts too. IDK. I leave it up to the guys who do it for a living to give me guidence. I'm not arguing b.t.w. I found one link that I researched before. I know I found a least four other credible sources that echoed the same thing.
http://www.ctracing.com/trx400ex1.htm

*edit* Forgot to add that it didn't say anything in the instructions about hardened rockers either.

Sorry to hi-jack Eric.

[tayyo789]

Sort of on topic here, but in my xr motor, I went from an HRC cam to a Web with the hardened rockers (I can't recall the exact grind I ended up with though) and it made so much more power that my HRC clutch couldn't handle it anymore, and I had to replace it with a Barnett. Web cams are all I run in all my bikes these days.
As far as 440's and such go, I feel like my 416 is faster than it ever was as a 440, but it had all kinds of problems before and runs so good now, i'm afraid to touch it anymore

[400exshop]

@ steve, We will have the 426 back at the track this friday if it dont rain. I am going to try a few things to see if it help's on motor. After we get all we can on motor we will spray it with the nos to see how it runs and ill get back to you with the numbers..... Also steve do you do and 300' drags on dirt? There is a big race at Busco Beach. The last time we was there, there was alot of guy's from up you'r way on atv's and street bike's running 300' drag on sand/dirt.

[Chukkinsod]

I run a custom WEB, But used to run the 479 and Hard faced rockers are highly recommended for wear. I am running blackdiamond +1's w/shortened Bronze guides. Liked the setup w/the 440 but had a custom cam made when I changed to drag setup.

[400exrider707]

You should be running hardened rockers. It's a material thing. The hotcams are just billiet aluminum cams, the webs are welded and ground and hardened. You need rockers to match, otherwise one surface is harder than the other and wears out the softer material in short order. I'm sure a quality synthetic oil will help slow this down some, but not prevent it from happening. Just my 2 cents.

Seems silly to compare a 426 with lower compression and a different cam profile than the 440 with higher compression.

You say the web 1 is better than a hotcam stage 2, well... in what regard? More lift? More duration? Both? I mean saying a cam is better than another is like saying blue is better than green. It doesn't make any sense. The cam should be tailored to how you want to make power and when. What other mods are done? Is that it?

[Thumpin440ex]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
You should be running hardened rockers. It's a material thing. The hotcams are just billiet aluminum cams, the webs are welded and ground and hardened. You need rockers to match, otherwise one surface is harder than the other and wears out the softer material in short order. I'm sure a quality synthetic oil will help slow this down some, but not prevent it from happening. Just my 2 cents.

Seems silly to compare a 426 with lower compression and a different cam profile than the 440 with higher compression.

You say the web 1 is better than a hotcam stage 2, well... in what regard? More lift? More duration? Both? I mean saying a cam is better than another is like saying blue is better than green. It doesn't make any sense. The cam should be tailored to how you want to make power and when. What other mods are done? Is that it?

^^^^
This does make sense.. Naturally the same cam in a bike with X amount of compression, a diff bore will react differently to one in a lower compression diff bore bike.. It is all how the cam is set up for the application it is going in..

John