Anyone running NOS with alky?

[bad465]

If anyone is running NOS on an alky bike I would like to ask acouple of questions. My bike was on race fuel and ran perfectly all the time, now that its on alky it dies half hill on bottle????? Any thoughts?

[NTPRacing#19]

dude first all its not NOS its friggen nitrous!!! i hate it when people call nitrous "NOS" make sure you are running and alcohol carberator. and make sure the bike is jetted right for the nitrous cause nitrous is just actaully very cold compressed laughing gas from your dentist at a commercial grade, its not an actual fuel like pump fuel.

[bad465]

ntpracing do you have first hand knowledge of running "nitrous" on alky? Perhaps I mis-stated the question. The bike pre alky conversion did 72hp and does 81hp on alky with "nitrous" and seems on the dyno to be jetted atleast good enough to give consistant runs with good numbers. The problem occurs when shooting the hill. I'm not sure if the bike is flooding our or leaning out?

[400exrules]

DUDE THAT STUFF AT THE THE DENTIST KICKS *****!!!!!!!!

[BlazingYamahaYz]

thats a nice looking ex....i reeally like the lightning graphics....

[mikeboone]

Yea man it's def fubar..best bet is to sell to me:D j/p Nice bike!

[optikid123]

wheres the other header???????:confused: :confused:

[NTPRacing#19]

damn that is a sick quad you got man!! no i do not have first hand experiance runnin nitrous but does it start to quit when you shoot it with nitrous? or half way through the shot?

[NTPRacing#19]

and also i see your running the stock carb cause i can see the yellow lever for the choke. your problem actually may lay with your carb if your running the stock carb. you should run an alcohol carb if your running alcohol

[BrianWrightR6]

.........

[roostu]

No experiance with alky, but some with nitrous. Does this problem also happen when getting on the bottle on flat ground

~Roost-U

[CHAUNCY]

Nice quad ya got there bad465

[Doibugu2]

I think I am going to get a "NOS" bottle to put on the back of my quad. But I'll just make it into a tool box:rolleyes:

[Chef]

You just need a bigger carb I think....With those type of numbers, grab an FCR41 and have FTZ convert it, and get a bigger accel. pump bowl for it, on my FCR right here, its bright red.

[400exRacerX]

Dude you got the stock carb on alky??

[Chef]

Looks like it to me norm....hows the stroker goin?

[400exRacerX]

Thats a sweet friggin bike,,, but you definatly need to switch carbs!

I had a fun enough time getting my 416 stroker tuned into my fcr39mm from just the standard 416 with a mild cam.

The bike runs ok, I still got tuning to do and I wanna wait to tune it when its warmer out so I don't gotta rejet when the weather finally breaks. There is also still a couple feet of snow and I really have nowere to hook-up.

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

God that quad is sweet :eek: :drools:

[ChadEXer]

Not to be rude here but there is NO WAY your bike has anywhere near 81HP,,,I wouldnt seriously doubt it even does 70 on Alky and "nitrous" especially on the stock carb,,,,NO WAY!!! Do you have a dyno slip??? Also, good luck on getting the "nitrous" and alky to run good together, it can be tough!!

[Predator36]

Originally posted by bad465
If anyone is running NOS on an alky bike I would like to ask acouple of questions. My bike was on race fuel and ran perfectly all the time, now that its on alky it dies half hill on bottle????? Any thoughts?

I have experiance with both Alky and nitros including the kits from "NOS". I may be able to help you if you give me enough info.

Several things I will need to know.
1. Did you increase fuel flow on the needle, pilot, main jet, fuel inlet, and on the fuel side of the nitros system??
2. Are you running Alky through the nitros system??

I will also have a lot of other questions including bottle pressures , heaters and etc.

Please keep all questions and comments on the forum - -NO PM's

[bad465]

as to the dyno numbers you are more than welcome to contact Charlie at Othon Racing 602-487-2787 to question any of my dyno numbers. The nitrous system still injects normal fuel with the n20. Im not sure what was done carb wise when othon racing did the conversion to alky. I have been told that I need a bigger float bowl that the bike is just running out of fuel on long full throttle runs. I have also been told that it may be way to rich and is flooding itself out when pegged for a long period of time.

[Predator36]

Originally posted by bad465
The nitrous system still injects normal fuel with the n20. Im not sure what was done carb wise when othon racing did the conversion to alky. I have been told that I need a bigger float bowl that the bike is just running out of fuel on long full throttle runs. I have also been told that it may be way to rich and is flooding itself out when pegged for a long period of time.

Sounds like the fuel inlet is to restrictive. I have seen this on a lot of bikes. There are several ways to fix this problem.
1. Bowl extensions - this just gives you more fuel in the bowl and is only a bandaid.
2. Best way I have found is to increase the fuel inlet flow all the way from the tank to the bowl. Most keihin carbs respond well to larger inlet valves since they run larger floats.

[ChadEXer]

You will NEVER get the stock carb to feed enough alky to your motor,,,especially a 465 doing numbers like you say it is. A bigger float bowl and even a longer fuel line will help but wont help enough,,,Its hard to beleve your bike hardly runs at all running alky through the stock carb, no matter what they done to it. I have a friend that had his stock carb modded for alky and his bike is completely stock(except for pipe and jets) and it was still running too lean. I wouldnt believe those numbers even if I did call that guy and he told me it was true, I would have to see a slip from a good dyno to believe it and even then I would be skeptical that it was made on the computer! Dont get me wrong, Im not trying to be mean here, but I have rode, seen, and raced a few Trinity motors,,,,and Harry builds a good motor but he doesnt pull numbers like that out of an EX. I think if you did get numbers like that off a dyno then the dyno is way off or isnt reading the correct HP. He!! even the Sparks 465 wont produce numbers like that and I have heard from a few how your bike stacks up to a Sparks!!!!!!!

[ChadEXer]

Reading your post again, there is no way its running to rich,,,a stock carb cant even really push regular gas fast enough to a 465 let alone alky that is burned twice as fast. At full throttle you are probably running good for around 6-7 seconds give or take, then your carb runs out of alky. Even with a 41mm carb at full throttle cant pump enough alky and after so long of full throttle will die! Thats why some guys put fuel pumps on their drag bikes,,,my friend has a 350R powervalve on alky and his would go for around 5-6 seconds and run out,,he put a fuel pump on it and it will run as long as you want it to now. But with an EX, most of the time a larger bowl and longer fuel line will eliminate the problem,,,but thats with a bigger carb...

[bad465]

chadexer, you seem to know your stuff but you should know that running the hill 12lbs is worth 1mph and the sparks bike you speak of I was told straight from sparks that the bike was lightened over 75lbs and the rider only weighs 120. That bike rider combo was 150lbs lighter than me and my bike so it is obvious there bike will run the hill faster. My bike is not a drag bike like theres was, it is 80% dune and 20% hill shooter. There is no question that the normal fully dunable sparks alky 465 's would not stand a chance against me on bottle infact the 3 I've raced I beat off bottle. Now your bike if built well should do low 50's maybe high 50's if your on alky so why do you not think a similar bike running a large shot of n2o can do high 70's? You obviously havent experienced the thrill that is n2o!!!

[ChadEXer]

I wasnt even thinking about it and you are completely right about the Sparks bike being weight shaved tremendously. But the fact is the motor on the Sparks bike was still only around 50,,,,51 HP to be exact if im not mistaken. Now Harry is a good engine builder but he doesnt build motors to the extreme like Sparks does,,,,,Sparks pushes reliability on some of his bikes and I know personaly that Harry will usually not do that! Harry usually claims around 45HP with his 465's and I have a friend who dynoed his at 48HP. So being that I have seen a Trinity 465 dynoed at 48HP and know that that same guy gained pretty close to 8HP when he added alky,,,that would be saying that you have a 25 shot of "NOS" on your bike(to get 81HP),,,if that was true I would be willing to bet the title to my bike that it wouldnt last 3 times down a drag strip. Now with both the alky and the "NOS" running together perfectly I could believe that you could get around 70 HP with that setup, but 81 is a little far fetched and is well beyond reliable!!(even 70 is A LOT of stress on an EX motor)
Tom told me to expect at least 55HP out of my bike but dont be surprised if its real close to the 60HP range. He said the most unbelievable thing about my motor will be the torque numbers. I had him build my motor with a very strong emphasis on torque(thats the way he likes to build them anyway)because torque is a very important number,,,especially in drag racing. So if my bike dynoed at 55HP, and you on bottle and "NOS" was around 80,,,but my torque numbers were twice the number of yours,,,,,then there is no doubt I would be the first one to the finish line!! Some people just dont understand how important torque is(especially in drag racing)and just talk HP this, HP that!! Right now I have no plans to put my bike on alky, I havent come across any bike that is faster than mine on gas yet. Alky can be a pain in the arse sometimes and requires a bit of more maintenance,,,,so until I get beat I will continue to run VP C-14 +,,,but you can bet your arse Im not afraid to go to alky if the need ever arises,,,plus i know quite a bit about it and how to make it run good with it. My best friend\mechanic with the 350R powervalve runs alky and knows a lot about it too,,,and so far I pretty convinced that there are very few R's out there that can even come close to his,,,matter of fact of the 2 years he has had it Ive only seen him get beat by 1 Banshee,,,and that was by about 1/2 a bike length!! I think it was a 480 Banshee on alky????? Not sure though...

[Chef]

Unless you've already done it, and dont mind losing the option of reserve, you need to drill out your tank, and pet cock. I had to do it to mine because the line wouldnt flow enough for gas, and it was sucking the accell. pump dry. So between teh drilled out tank and accel. pump bowl, it gets fuel.

[loganB]

Justrace he never said he had the fastest quad on the site. In alot of drag races top speet dosent mater what maters is what chad said Torqe without a good start hp dont mean sh@$

[bad465]

chad you are right on with your number but the bike jetted at around 78 has made well over 100 nitrous runs up olds at glamis without issue. I did lose the head gasket when I upjetted to 81, but the bike will do 78 all season. I just found this on the connection if anyone questions this bikes speed http://forums.atvconnection.com/messageview.cfm/catid/13/threadid/332002/STARTPAGE/1.cfm

[ChadEXer]

Im not questioning that your bike is fast at all, Im sure it is. Im just saying that the HP numbers you are stating are a little high. Just because a bike Dynos at say 55HP and you put a "25 shot" on it doesnt mean that it is automatically 80HP. It just doesnt work that way. If your bike was pushing 78HP then you would be blowing head gaskets every other run up the hill if not every run,,,especially being that you are in the sand. Sand resistance is hard on a motor by itself, you add that with 78HP on a EX motor and your looking for problems. I know your bike is fast and I could believe that with the alky and "NOS" you might get pretty close to 70HP, but 80 just wont happen unless you get rediculous with the amount of "NOS" sent to the motor and it wont last long enough to give a 80HP reading anyway.
I will have my bike on the dyno over at HighLifter in the next few days(it has been raining almost non stop for over a week here) and see what mine will do. I am very curious. I have a 42MM Lecron carb on it with one of the largest jets(actually a needle)in it and I still had to turn it 3 turns in because it was still running so lean. I know one thing, this damned thing sucks $6.00 a gallon gas faster than a hooker!! Im afraid if I put alky on the thing it wouldnt last 15-20 minutes!
Come to think of it Im even wondering how you get alky and "NOS" to run good together in the first place. Alky only responds well to higher compression, when "NOS" is best to run on a lower compression,,,what compression are you running in your bike???

[bad465]

chad I am glad to see that you are an educated person. Please dont take this the wrong way but the facts I'm giving are not things ive heard they are facts the ARE! I run a "24" shot in my bike and it gives me 32hp on the dyno. Alky and nos will mix but it does take extra tuning. My bike is at 12.5:1 compression which is a bit low for alky and a bit high for nitrous my reason for going to alky was engine temp not performance. Being abit high compression for nitrous just means I cant inject as much as I could if it were 9 or 10 compression. Flat out fact this bike has made well over 100 nitrous passes this season jetted at 78hp!

[ChadEXer]

Actually a 12.5:1 compression is just about right for alky, but a little low for "NOS". 12.5:1 compression is the highest you want to go on a EX motor. I was talking to Curtis the other day on the phone about his problems with his old 505's and he told me he found out what the problem is why he kept splitting the cases in them, and I told him it was because he was running such high compression in his motor, and he said I was right but also found out another "secret" that he didnt want to share with me!! He now agrees that for a reliable motor you dont want to go over a 12.5:1 compression, but Im sure he will continue to put 15:1 compression in his bike for FSW!! If your bike does push 78HP then it seems to me you would be having a lot of problems,,you would be going through head gaskets pretty quick, second gear would have done went out a few times, and probably even a few tranny problems. It just seems hard to get 32HP off a "25 Shot" of "NOS" especially when your running a compression that "NOS" doesnt respond that well too, but I will take your word for it. Maybe Harry put a little magic in your motor when nobody was lookin!!! When I got my bike my plans were to break it in on gas and immediately go to alky, but after I got it I was very impressed with the power and the temp stays very good to be such a large bore\stroke! I do believe your bike would run a lot better if you got a bigger carb setup to run alky. If it was me I would get a 42MM Lectron with a powerjet,,,you can get one for around $300. The Lectron is an excellent carb fore dunners and drag racers,,,most of the bad***** drag bikes run Lectrons!

[bad465]

I spoke with curtis himself and FSW and he was also very surprised that I havent had the case issues. As for the magic from harry I'm not sure if thats true but I do know that he built this motor 100% himself! I do agree I need a carb but budget doesnt allow it right now. If anyone has one for a good deal let me know. If a get a few hp out of the carb I will down jet the nitrous to keep the overall power where it is, going any higher is very risky! I am still thinking of going back to gas.

[ChadEXer]

It just blows my mind that you can even get that thing to run with alky running through the stock carb! Like I was saying my friend put alky on his stock bike and couldnt get the stock carb to push alky fast enough to the motor! But if you ever do decide to get a better carb you can probably sell your stocker for around $75-$100, and that would leave you only paying around $200 for a carb, If you got a Lectron. But of course if you ask Sparks he will tell you to run the FCR that will set you back over $500. I should have set a budget on my bike but it never happened. At first I just going to put a 416 and said thats all I was going to do,,well then I decided the 416 just wasnt enough and If I was going to go bigger I wanted to make sure I wouldnt have to go even bigger later so I decided on the 505. Well then since the motor was out I went ahead and tore it down for powdercoating, since I was going to have it powdercoated i decided I better go ahead and get my a-arms, swingarm and all that other stuff id want powdercoated,,,then came the billet, the shocks,,,then on and on. Now there isnt one part I dont have. The only thing stock on my bike is the frame and it is gusseted and powdercoated with the toolbox mounts, battery mounts and all the other stuff I didnt need shaved off before it was powdercoated!! This damned sport gets addictive!!