View Full Version : New guy, blue smoke when hot. need help
nitro84
09-09-2011, 02:13 PM
I recently bought a HMF slip on and had the dealer re-jet it because my dads not very mechanically inclined. They only put a 155 main it and didnt mess with the a/f screw or pilot jet so it backfired on decel when i got it back, i rode it like this for about 5 hours until i realized something was wrong. I then turned the a/f screw out to 3.5 turns and it stopped backfiring and popping on decel.
I took it out this past weekend and I started to see small puffs of smoke when it got really hot, im not for sure if it was blue or black as i couldn't tell when i was on the quad.
So now im wondering If its just too rich and blowing black smoke ( the temps dropped from 85-90 degrees down to 65 degrees around here) or if im going to have to get somebody to tear it down and put new rings or valve seals in it (depending on which it needs, or maybe both considering valve seals are cheap). Also Im running 20-50 weight Honda oil and i changed it just before I went riding this weekend .
Im also wondering if its smoking now because it was too lean after the dealer jetted it and it ruined the rings , because Ive never have a problem with it before i put the pipe on it and it always felt like it had plenty of power and still doesn't feel like theres a power loss. You all seem like you definably know what your doing around here when it comes to working on quads, so i was going to get your guys input first.
crownandmonster
09-09-2011, 02:59 PM
How many hours are on the top end? I would probably bet the rings are starting to go bad. If it is only doing it when hot its nothing to worry about yet just keep an eye on your oil level. I dont think it should be lean with a 155 and just a slip on. (Or do you have other mods)?
nitro84
09-09-2011, 03:42 PM
It's a 04 , I've had it for almost a year now I've probally put around 50 hours on it since I've had it , maybe a little more. I don't know much background info on the bike beside that it's been really reliable for me until now . The motors all stock as far as I know besides the slip on . What's the proper way to check the oil ? I always fill it to 2 quarts but when I start it and let it idle and check it there's never much oil on the dipstick although I know there's gotta be oil in there
powerbomb400
09-09-2011, 03:58 PM
With the stock oil tank that is how much it takes. 2 quarts is the correct amount. What crownandmonster is saying is check your oil and see how much it is using. A puff every now and then you won't see much oil loss if any at all. I didn't rebuild mine till it started using a 1/2 quart or more every 100 miles or 6 to 8 running hours.
05DodgeDakota
09-09-2011, 04:30 PM
book says it takes 1.8 quarts, but I always put 2 in as well. But I also pick up the right side of the quad to drain out every last drop from the cranckcase.
nitro84
09-09-2011, 05:20 PM
I know how to change the oil and how much it takes . Its tricky on how to check the oil though , sometumes its full , sometimes its empty
Put in 1.5 qts, start up and let it get warm for 10-15 mins. Shut it down then add other 1/2 qt of oil, let run again 5-10 mins-oil should be on stick.
To check oil while riding. Stop riding and let idle for 5-10 mins and shut down and check it.
nitro84
09-09-2011, 06:21 PM
Ok . What do you all think is the problem with the smoke ? Rings or what ? Its only when it gets really hot , it will spit a puff here and there. No power loss
Could be to much oil and its burning it off, thats always a possibility but usually unlikely.
Probably rings, but thing is the rings would expand when hot and seal better.
Compression and leak down test then post the results.
crownandmonster
09-09-2011, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by CJM
Could be to much oil and its burning it off, thats always a possibility but usually unlikely.
Probably rings, but thing is the rings would expand when hot and seal better.
Compression and leak down test then post the results.
True, but the cylinder also expands. They always smoke worse when they get hot.
Agreed, if the cyl is really out when hot and the rings expand it aint sealing-such as my case amt.
nitro84
09-09-2011, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by CJM
Could be to much oil and its burning it off, thats always a possibility but usually unlikely.
Probably rings, but thing is the rings would expand when hot and seal better.
Compression and leak down test then post the results.
I dont have a compression or leak down tester . Im only 15 and have never worked on 4 wheelers , besides basic maintenence , so i dont know much of what im doing when it comes to replaving rings and such . A buddy of mine gave me a mechanics number that does it on the side and rebuilt his 400. Im probally just going to take it to him and let him figure out whats wrong with it . If it need rings , ill be watchin him replace them so i can do it the next time , as i dont plan on sellin this 400 anytime soon
Good luck with it, its not super hard to do but not having the tools and know how is kinda tough.
Not everyone is a mechanic like myself and has access to a shop let alone tools at home.
nitro84
09-09-2011, 11:28 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CJM
Good luck with it, its not super hard to do but not having the tools and know how is kinda tough.
Not everyone is a mechanic like myself and has access to a shop let alone tools at home. [/
Thanks CJM , what would be a reasonable price to do rings if that what it needs and I'll probably go ahead an put new valve seals in it too since there cheap
powerbomb400
09-10-2011, 04:32 AM
Unless its using alot of oil I wouldn't worry too much about it right now. You said there wasn't any power loss. When it starts smoking and using oil that's when I'd do a rebuild.
Originally posted by powerbomb400
Unless its using alot of oil I wouldn't worry too much about it right now. You said there wasn't any power loss. When it starts smoking and using oil that's when I'd do a rebuild.
Problem is if you wait to long instead of maybe replacing just rings he may have to bore and go up a piston size.
Costs vary, a set of rings are like 20-35 bucks and figure 50-100/hr for labor depending on who does it-figure on at least 2-3 hours.
DnB_racing
09-10-2011, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by nitro84
Ok . What do you all think is the problem with the smoke ? Rings or what ? Its only when it gets really hot , it will spit a puff here and there. No power loss a general rule of thumb is.... if it smokes on start up and deceleration its valve seals,
if it smokes on acceleration its rings... but that's in general without other issues, but a good place to start
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