2013 EFI 450r Vs. 2012 Carb. 450r

[Jeffries265]

i need to know if an electronic fuel injected quad is worth waiting for. Sometime within the next 3 months im going to be buying a new quad. Im trying to find a 2009 kickstart 450r but if i cannot find one of those im going to have to settle for either the 2012 450r or maybe wait for the 2013 450r but i dont know if electronic fuel injection will really be worth the wait. Will someone who knows more about this new model please enlighten me on if and why it could be a smarter purchase for my new MX bike.

Thank you to everyone who rides a quad and helps keep the sport ALIVE!!!
Jeffries #265

[CJM]

Fuel injection will be much easier to tune and upgrade the bike. Starting will be a cinch. Downsides will besmore electronics that can possibly go bad and the fact its a brand new setup which might need some kinks worked out.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Jeffries265
i need to know if an electronic fuel injected quad is worth waiting for. Sometime within the next 3 months im going to be buying a new quad. Im trying to find a 2009 kickstart 450r but if i cannot find one of those im going to have to settle for either the 2012 450r or maybe wait for the 2013 450r but i dont know if electronic fuel injection will really be worth the wait. Will someone who knows more about this new model please enlighten me on if and why it could be a smarter purchase for my new MX bike.

Thank you to everyone who rides a quad and helps keep the sport ALIVE!!!
Jeffries #265 with FI comes a more complex wire harness and more sensors, tuning is done with a power commander instead of jets...

i like the adjust ability of the FI,

but the carb systems are WAY more basic and anyone can tune them, the FI tuning is more advanced then the average back yard mechanic can do properly..

if you plan on many mods I would not go FI,

the FI mods will cost more in high performance tuning...

why not just get a real lightly used quad with some mods already done for less cash?

[BlasterEaten250]

The 2013 450r has EFI for sure?

[Jeffries265]

This will be my 3rd quad and ive had bad experiences with buying used quads. im not saying that that is the reason that im not buying a used quad. The reason im buying a new quad instead of used is because i have a good job now and i make alot more money than i used to so i figured this would be the perfect opportunity to buy a brand new quad that has only been owned by me and do all the mods myself.. It will make the bike more unique to me... it will be my first 100% me quad... My dream machine if you will :)

Thank you to everyone who rides a quad and helps keep the sport ALIVE!!!
Jeffries #265

[coryatver]

If your going to be racing I would just get the model out now it is going to take a couple years for the aftermarket to get the setup figured out for the 2013. There is already proven setups out there for the current model. If you go to the track to show off your quad and have the latest and greatest rather than the racing then wait for the new one.

[TheLane]

its fake

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by CJM
Fuel injection will be much easier to tune and upgrade the bike. Starting will be a cinch. Downsides will besmore electronics that can possibly go bad and the fact its a brand new setup which might need some kinks worked out. lmao easier to tune and upgrade. your way off on that. efi's starts slower then the original yfz and kick start honda. efi bikes are faster but are a pain in the *** and way mopre expensive. nothing easier about them

[CJM]

Easier to tune? Unless you got experience doing it Id say not. Carbs are super simple, EFI is not.

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by CJM
Easier to tune? Unless you got experience doing it Id say not. Carbs are super simple, EFI is not. thats strange just one post up from your last one i have your earlier quote. so which is it since you have made 2 completely opposite statements

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by jb500ex
thats strange just one post up from your last one i have your earlier quote. so which is it since you have made 2 completely opposite statements I think your missing what CJM means, EFI takes less work to tune then having to change Jets, but takes a different skill level and knowledge,

for someone with experience with FI yes its easier,
as up to a certain point of modification all that needs to be done is some button pushing on the PC5,

but there are limits to the amount of adjustments with FI,
the limits placed on the amount of co2 and pollutants can be controlled much easier by only allowing certain limits on the sensors, regardless of what the motor needs,

were with jetting the sky is the limit, in my opinion FI is just another way to regulate off road racing,

and a way to even the playing field, that is for those that want to spend top dollar dyno tuning,
not the weekend garage warriors

and an attempt to put more maintenance in the hands of the factory's and dealers instead of the small shops, and garages

the factories know that the average rider is afraid to mess with and trouble shoot a basic wiring system like an old 250r,
let alone a battery run ,e-start,regulated rectified, relayed, sensored,error coded, fuel injected, restricted,night mare of a wiring system...
i personally like the ability to have the option of pulling previous error codes, but most wouldn't know what to do with this info anyways

you have 2 choices learn electrical systems or pay someone to fix for you

just my humble opinion on EFI

[CJM]

BINGO! ^

Easier to tune with the right knowledge and equipment, but how many really have that experience to do so?

Its not like you just plug into it and go, yay its tuned. Theres alot more to it than that, just like tuning a car with EFI

[chronicsmoke]

I got my first hands on experience with my buddies YFZ, right at the track he pulls out his laptop, plugs it in via USB, and starts changing his maps, and looking at his numbers.

It definitely performed different on each map as you could tell by the sound of the engine and how he had to shift. He was saying that by the numbers he was getting, it was WAAAAAAYYYYYY Fat compared to his wifes YFZ (same mods), but the plug chops are fine, and it runs like a champ.

I think it's cool, but what happens when it fails? Big $$ to buy the electric brain.

I personally don't have enough confidence in my knowledge, or the system to go the EFI route again. I had a KFX and HATED it, mostly because of the EFI.

[Kovatch]

HP gains are pretty good when you add "the big three" intake, exhaust, EFI programmer. The YFZR is easy to adjust with MSD or Power Commander. There are a lot of people who spend the time to get a map "built" for you to download. They share their settings and all you need to do is simply plug in the PC & load a new map.

If you were to port, hi comp, cams, exhaust, bigger valves, full out race motor, you are better off with a new ECU (Vortex).

I like how easy mine (YFZR) starts in the winter & runs regardless of weather: no need to rejet for 40 degree temp swings.

I'm sure many will convert the FI to carbs ASAP for racing.

[KingpinsEx]

All I can say is WOW. FI is not easier or cheaper to tune, whether your quailified or not. As far as plugging in a computer or adjusting the ratio with a button, that is not the proper way to tune a FI machine. By doing that you are taking away the true advantage of FI because you are not making the changes based on how the machine is running. Even the auto tune setups are BS. In order to PROPERLY tune a FI machine you need a good fuel controller, a dyno, and someone who knows how to tune. Whoever said with jetting the sky is the limit, makes no sense. You can MUCH more precisley tune a map on a FI machine than you ever could with a carb, which is why it is better. Fuel injection is not an attempt to put to put maintenance in the hands of the dealers. What dealer do you know has a dyno and people trained to tuned a machine? It is still small, specialized shops that need to do the work.

So look at it this way, if you have a fuel injected motor and wanted to get the most out of it, with modifications done, look at spending at least an extra 500 dollars on top of everything with a fuel controller and proper tune. Will it run better? Most likely, but there is also alot more that can go wrong, which is not a good thing for off road racing. I makes me laugh because so many people were buying the LTR when it first came out because of the FI, now everyone is putting carbs on them...

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by KingpinsEx
Fuel injection is not an attempt to put to put maintenance in the hands of the dealers. all I can say is wow!! how did you get what you said out of what all of us said


you dont think more owners will go to shops and dealers to have work done and problems fixed instead of doing it then selves, are you kidding me!!

most quad owners are afraid to touch there wiring!!so less will even try with FI, its not just the FI but all the components associated with it , no they arnt going to run to dealer to tune but they will to troubleshoot!!but do you honestly believe the average quad owner will be able to troubleshoot fuel pump relays ,rollover switches, throttle sensor, air sensors,

they wont be going to the guy with the dyno!! but they will go to the place they bought it(dealer)

to tune is going to go to the people that want to pay the extra coin to have it dynoed

and all the restrictions that goes with a emission restricted vehicle, its not going to be a good thing for the off road industry

what I meant by the sky is the limit is no restrictions set by the factory like a FI controller has governed by the sensors

[FHKracingZ]

Originally posted by KingpinsEx
All I can say is WOW. FI is not easier or cheaper to tune, whether your quailified or not. As far as plugging in a computer or adjusting the ratio with a button, that is not the proper way to tune a FI machine. By doing that you are taking away the true advantage of FI because you are not making the changes based on how the machine is running. Even the auto tune setups are BS. In order to PROPERLY tune a FI machine you need a good fuel controller, a dyno, and someone who knows how to tune. Whoever said with jetting the sky is the limit, makes no sense. You can MUCH more precisley tune a map on a FI machine than you ever could with a carb, which is why it is better. Fuel injection is not an attempt to put to put maintenance in the hands of the dealers. What dealer do you know has a dyno and people trained to tuned a machine? It is still small, specialized shops that need to do the work.

So look at it this way, if you have a fuel injected motor and wanted to get the most out of it, with modifications done, look at spending at least an extra 500 dollars on top of everything with a fuel controller and proper tune. Will it run better? Most likely, but there is also alot more that can go wrong, which is not a good thing for off road racing. I makes me laugh because so many people were buying the LTR when it first came out because of the FI, now everyone is putting carbs on them...

I agree with some of your post. But to say you cannot tune a carb as good as a F.I. unit is bogus. You can achieve the same A/F Ratio with any carb as you can a f.i. setup. Any good tuner with a carb can get a carb running awesome within 5 pulls. You dont think NASCAR and NHRA carbs are running good? Ha, the tuning on them cars are perfect.

F.I. is a sales tactic. If you think otherwise you are a fool. Look how many people use to fix their own cars back in the day, almost everybody. Now look, almost 95% of people take their car to a garage because they dont have the equipment to diagnose the problem or fix it.

It is a way to make more more for the companies, period. My local honda kawasaki dealer has a dynojet. So whats your point? For the average racer which is 99% of people, carbs are the way to go. Just as much power, simple, way more reliable. period.

[KingpinsEx]

I am not even going to get into a debate about cars. However, you cannot compare nascar to atv's. Of course there jetting is perfect, they have millions of dollars in R & D. I am not saying you cannot get a carb to run well as fuel injection. All I am saying is you can tweak a map more precisely across the powerband with F.I. than what you can achieve with a jet.

Bottom Line, F.I. has its advantages and its issues. Properly setup they run awesome. Are they best suited for off road use? No. I don't think you are going to see a huge difference between the EFI or carb 450r, especially with the emissions restrictions.

[Jake250ex]

Originally posted by FHKracingZ


F.I. is a sales tactic.



finally someone gets it. the pros are riding efi bikes because their being paid to. and the funny thing is, some of those guys took EFI off of their bikes... like when the YFZR came out I know Brandon Sommers and I think Don Ockerman ran carbs - on a FACTORY SPONSORED machine - way to promote the product, they used it because it works. I'm not big into the mx world but I think I read Cody Gibson had a carb on his LTR?

aluminum frames didnt cut any weight and EFI hasnt added power to the "updated" quads. It looks great on a brochure. Ready any MX mag they all gripe that the new FI bikes feel weak in comparison to the older models and the extra parts required makes the bikes heavier.


but aside from that, I would buy any first year model where theyve dont major updates/changes

[MX MaNiAc 06]

Has it been confirmed yet that there is a fuel injected 450r coming out? Can't seem to find much..

[motochamp250]

Originally posted by Jake250ex
finally someone gets it. the pros are riding efi bikes because their being paid to. and the funny thing is, some of those guys took EFI off of their bikes... like when the YFZR came out I know Brandon Sommers and I think Don Ockerman ran carbs - on a FACTORY SPONSORED machine - way to promote the product, they used it because it works. I'm not big into the mx world but I think I read Cody Gibson had a carb on his LTR?

aluminum frames didnt cut any weight and EFI hasnt added power to the "updated" quads. It looks great on a brochure. Ready any MX mag they all gripe that the new FI bikes feel weak in comparison to the older models and the extra parts required makes the bikes heavier.


but aside from that, I would buy any first year model where theyve dont
major updates/changes


+100 ..been trying to tell people all along....

[tt racer]

Im gonna end the carb vs EfI debate...dont be scared of new tech because the dreaded EFI is here to stay because it is lower emissions!!!!!!!! Please get a clue EFI haters your government is gonna shut trail systems down because of this crap so imbrace it if ya wanna still ride!!! Im just sayin and i dont make the rules either!:) PEACE...

[ah665]

I don't think there is gonna be an efi 450R in the first place, that was a Photoshop in the Dirtwheels. Also, if you look at what all the ATV pros are running right now, that should answer the question whether or not you NEED efi. From what I see, most racers are on carbed 450R's.

[TheLane]

Originally posted by tt racer
Im gonna end the carb vs EfI debate...dont be scared of new tech because the dreaded EFI is here to stay because it is lower emissions!!!!!!!! Please get a clue EFI haters your government is gonna shut trail systems down because of this crap so imbrace it if ya wanna still ride!!! Im just sayin and i dont make the rules either!:) PEACE...

How does EFI lower emissions? O.o

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by tt racer
Im gonna end the carb vs EfI debate...dont be scared of new tech because the dreaded EFI is here to stay because it is lower emissions!!!!!!!! Please get a clue EFI haters your government is gonna shut trail systems down because of this crap so imbrace it if ya wanna still ride!!! Im just sayin and i dont make the rules either!:) PEACE... i dont understand what you mean about ending any EFI vs carb debate? do you really believe it will ever end?
i will never stop voicing my felling, of how we as "enthusiasts"are getting sold a inferior product for our needs


im not in the least bit afraid of"new tech"let alone the old technology of EFI... I just dont like it, anything that some one tries to control how and to what limits I want my machines to run is for the mindless !!


and how is it the government?
trails closing was happening way before any sign of efi.

here is a clue for you! a FI machine doesnt ruin any more spotted salamander breeding grounds then a carb

efi is just more costly to buy and fix, and a way for the factories to make more business. EFI is only here if we choose to keep buying all the crap ideas they trough at us the future isn't set in stone, its all up to what sells and makes money!!

I personally will keep riding my old 2 stroke, and passing the "new tech" machines, and when they break down, i will be spending pennies compared to hundreds fixing

:macho

[tt racer]

Ok EFI lowers emissions because it is simply more efficient when it burns fuel. The computer maps out the corrrect amount of fuel and air not to mention it will adjust to altitude automatically. To keep it simple for you all vehicles have EFI today why well the government has standards just like for our trail systems today. If you havent seen it yet you will. You havent been payin close enough attention to politics that affect your recreation. I grew up on the Honda 250rs and love them to death G.O.A.T. Im just sayin EFI is here and its goin to stay imbrace it ride what you want its all good:) :blah:

[tt racer]

One more thing ive had an LTR 450 also and have no issues with the EFI its an 06 and have heard nothing bad about the YFZ 450 either...dont be scared just playin:blah:

[sexysilverado45]

Honestly I have no clue how to tune a carb, but efi is like second nature to me.

[dxcody]

Originally posted by Jake250ex
finally someone gets it. the pros are riding efi bikes because their being paid to. and the funny thing is, some of those guys took EFI off of their bikes... like when the YFZR came out I know Brandon Sommers and I think Don Ockerman ran carbs - on a FACTORY SPONSORED machine - way to promote the product, they used it because it works. I'm not big into the mx world but I think I read Cody Gibson had a carb on his LTR?

aluminum frames didnt cut any weight and EFI hasnt added power to the "updated" quads. It looks great on a brochure. Ready any MX mag they all gripe that the new FI bikes feel weak in comparison to the older models and the extra parts required makes the bikes heavier.


but aside from that, I would buy any first year model where theyve dont major updates/changes

Yes sir! Donnie got kicked off the yamaha team because they said you will ride what we give you, or you wont ride for us.. Donnie said Ok im not riding for you then.. The reason why is donnie had nothing but troubles with his EFI and he hated that it wouldnt start worth a shi*.

Then in the 2010 season he turns around and pulls like 7 of 13 holeshots..

I dont get how they say "oh the fuel injection give it much more power" because on vehicals if you want more power, you throw a carb on it. Nascars run carbs, dragsters run carbs..

[ah665]

I'm not gonna say which is better between the 2, because both have their positives but EFI doesn't make more power. I dunno why people think that. In most cases, it actually smoothes out the power on a bike or ATV. Read MXA and they always talk about how they aren't big fans of all the bikes coming with EFI.

As far as stricly ATV talk, don't many pros that run LTR's and YFZs run carbs? And most pros choose the Honda anyways, which is carbed. I would think max output, carbs would be the way to go. Ablility to tune, EFI is nice. Aside from that, I don't really see why people act like its so great. I've had both on my ATVs and MX bikes. I currently have all carbed models for MX (TRX450R, new YZ250f, YZ125) and have no complaints.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by tt racer
Ok EFI lowers emissions because it is simply more efficient when it burns fuel. The computer maps out the corrrect amount of fuel and air not to mention it will adjust to altitude automatically. To keep it simple for you all vehicles have EFI today why well the government has standards just like for our trail systems today. If you havent seen it yet you will. You havent been payin close enough attention to politics that affect your recreation. I grew up on the Honda 250rs and love them to death G.O.A.T. Im just sayin EFI is here and its goin to stay imbrace it ride what you want its all good:) :blah: but the part your not seeing,it really comes down to 2 words.... EMISSION CREDITS

off road is a small money maker but a steady amount sold,no matter what poor performance they actually produce, they know a lot of people modify them, so they can keep producing junk knowing full well it will be changed out.and made to perform and keep selling
which makes them a perfect product to make some credits off, to use for any other profit they see fit. or even sell as a commodity to add on top of the profit margin

case in point... I dont know anyone that bought a LTR that didnt add a cherry bomb or something similar to bypass some limits


yes the government sets standards for companies to meet, but the corporations decide where the profit lies and caters to that side off the business,

example a motorcycle company could also own a coal company, the credits from restricting our quads, dirt bikes, street bikes, lawn mowers,etc. etc. could be made to allow the coal company to have higher emission standards

or by reducing the off road emissions, allowing the sport bike line to avoid cats for another year to get more sales

not reducing any pollution just allowing it in another more profitable market, its all 100% driven by profit!not the government

like said earlier in this thread EFI and emissions are nothing but a very cleaver marketing scheme!! nothing more!!
and a way to make more money under the illusion of being globally responsible, using the regulations to add to there profits margin

[tt racer]

I agree with most of what your sayin but anyway you wanna look at it EFI is not going anywhere soooooooo ride what you want and enjoy it life is short! The LTR reply you had it doesnt matter how you modify it thats on you the rider and its the regulations on the units sold at the dealership from the manufacturer. What your not seeing is off road sells 4 to 1 over motorcycles mainly because of the utillity market so i see that if the manufacturers want to keep selling atvs and off road motorcycles EFI is the future. Like i said i dont make the rules just ride :)