Hot cam & Timeing With a little 450 Carb questions

[DirtyBirdRacing]

OK some most likely stupid questions..

I run a stock motor My plans are to do are. . .
450 04/05 carb ( If I remmember correctly, Does anyone know where I could pick up an adapter for this and will it work with an aftermarket airbox? )
A Sparks +6 Key
Stage 1 HC
Recommended from hotcams and upgrade the Rocker arms as well.

My question is Will installing the HC OR the rockers Take it out of timeing? I have NO motor expirance, A friend of mine does (with cars) but said he doesnt want to mess with the timeing chain cause its a pain in the *****
I have read through the install directions that member "honda400ex2003" posted on here. and see the part where it says "Slowly rotate the engine 2 revolutions and feel carefully for any unexpected binding. If any is felt, check the cam timing before going any further."
But doesnt give me a clear answer if you HAVE to adjust it after putting the cam in or just if something is a little off.

2nd Question Does any one know how much a shop would typicaly Charge to do this work if i was to bring JUST the motor and the parts to them? Just incase my friend doesnt want to help me with this, I dont really feel to comfortable with going in at it alone.



So basicly. . .
Will the Carb mod from a 450 work with a aftermarker air box?
Where can I find an adapter for the 450 carb?
Will installing the HC OR the rockers Take it out of timeing?
How much do you think a Typical honda shop would charge for doing the HC and Rockers?

[01boneless]

ya dude the timming is going to completly off . its easy apperenty the friend has no experice(no offence) all you have to do is take off the valve cover instal the rockers remove the cam set the engin to tdc with the t mark lined on the flywheel drop in the sproket line the sproket lines up with the head and put the cam in (lobes down) bolt it up adjust your valve and whala your done and its in time!!! (type fast may not have covered it all but mainly i did)

[01boneless]

ohh and the shop would charge about 60 bucks and hour at probley id say 4 hours about 240 bucks giver take but you can do it your self these are the easy parts to work with on the motor. ohh you can use a aftermarket box with a 450 carb and youl have to make a adapter out of rupper hose or make one out of alum.

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Originally posted by 01boneless
ya dude the timming is going to completly off . its easy apperenty the friend has no experice(no offence) all you have to do is take off the valve cover instal the rockers remove the cam set the engin to tdc with the t mark lined on the flywheel drop in the sproket line the sproket lines up with the head and put the cam in (lobes down) bolt it up adjust your valve and whala your done and its in time!!! (type fast may not have covered it all but mainly i did)

No offence taken, Im not one to take things personal lol, But i know he knows how to take motors out of cars and basic auto body stuff.. idk maybe I will talk to him about helping me with the cam again last time we talked he said it wasnt worth it but i think it is with how people talk about it, worse comes to worse i will send it to the shop, do you know of any forms that tell you how to set the timeing chain?
Thank for the help.

[DnB_racing]

here is a link for a service manual, the free one is the regular download, http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=769&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hondaatvforums.net%2Fforums%2 Fhonda-trx%2F1638-400ex-manual.html&v=1&libid=1315223295867&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sendspace.com%2Ffile%2Fwcy9is&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fsourcei d%3Dnavclient%26aq%3D2h%26oq%3D400%26ie%3DUTF-8%26rlz%3D1T4ADFA_enUS361US361%26q%3D400%2Bex%2Bfr ee%2Bservice%2Bmanual&title=400EX%20Manual%20-%20Honda%20ATV%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sendspace.com%2Ffile%2Fwcy9is&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13152234122305 as far as the cam timing its an easy procedure, just take your time and follow the service manual,after you do it once, you will see how easy these machines are to work on, hope this helps some:)

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
here is a link for a service manual, the free one is the regular download, http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=769&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hondaatvforums.net%2Fforums%2 Fhonda-trx%2F1638-400ex-manual.html&v=1&libid=1315223295867&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sendspace.com%2Ffile%2Fwcy9is&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fsourcei d%3Dnavclient%26aq%3D2h%26oq%3D400%26ie%3DUTF-8%26rlz%3D1T4ADFA_enUS361US361%26q%3D400%2Bex%2Bfr ee%2Bservice%2Bmanual&title=400EX%20Manual%20-%20Honda%20ATV%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sendspace.com%2Ffile%2Fwcy9is&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13152234122305 as far as the cam timing its an easy procedure, just take your time and follow the service manual,after you do it once, you will see how easy these machines are to work on, hope this helps some:)

Thanks I was looking to get this again after my computer crashed, Helps alot.

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Well I was talking to my friend about helping me possibly do a HC stage 1 install and he seems a little worried about trying it, He does have many years working with cars, not so much of anything IN side on a motor,

He is telling me if the timing is off and we try to start it, that it could pretty much ruin the motor. . . and that he doesn’t think that it’s worth the $$ for a little gain, Well I still want to do this idc what he thinks about the power increase lol. BUT I don’t want to ruin the motor. This timing thing is kind of scaring me I have personally NO experience with motors of any kind.

My friend is willing to try and help me with it if I still want to go and do this but he’s telling me He is not giving me any promises of how it will be after we put it back together. . . Understandable

I’m a little worried just installing the cam with the timing chain issue, do I NEED to install the rockers while I’m in there or could I just put the new cam in and get out? At this point I want to do what I would HAVE to in there and touch nothing else.

Tonight hes looking over the Install Directions and going to get back to me if he feels any more comfortable doing this.

[CJM]

Listen, its super easy to install the cam.

Drain oil, remove rocker cover, remove caps on left side case for timing marks, move crankshaft bolt to where you can see the T line up with the little line on the case and flywheel inside, install new cam with the lobes facing down, put cam gear back on with lines parallel to cylinder head, button everything up and your done.

Your friend is a crappy mechanic if he doesnt think he can do this job Im sorry to say. Its literally that simple, maybe I left out a step or two but the directions that come with the cam will reinforce almost exactly what I said.

[tri5ron]

you do not need to change the rockers when installing a new Hotcam.

The installation is about as easy as it gets.

Here's a pic of all the valve cover bolts to remove.
BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN LOOSENING THESE, mine were so tight that one of them stripped while removing it... and they ALL felt like they were going to snap off. Just be careful with these.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/03%20400ex/IMG_3489.jpg


The rockers all stay with the valve cover when you remove it.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/03%20400ex/IMG_3494.jpg

here's a pic of the timing chain tensioner that you will remove

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/03%20400ex/IMG_3490.jpg

Here's some pics of the decompressor valve that you must remove. just use a piece of wire to fish it out, and be careful not to drop the spring or valve into the motor.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/03%20400ex/IMG_3502.jpg

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/03%20400ex/IMG_3499.jpg

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/03%20400ex/IMG_3500.jpg

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Honestly with just those 2 posts I feel alot better about going in there and even doing the rockers, My buddy thought the rockers were UNDER the Cam if there in the cover I think ill change them for good measure I didnt want to go any deeper in the motor than the cam, Ok I will shut up about this you guys have given me more than enough info, Thank you all.

[CJM]

Oh make sure you torque the rocker cover bolts to 7 foot pounds. They strip super easy!

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by CJM
Oh make sure you torque the rocker cover bolts to 7 foot pounds. They strip super easy! Yes,.. and use a SMALL torque wrench, cailbrated in INCH POUNDS, just to play it safe.

Like we have said,... they strip SO EASY, that one of mine stripped while LOOSENING it.
It actually came out with aluminum in the bolt threads.

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Ok, thanks for the warning, I will have to pick one of those up before I go to install the cam.

[DnB_racing]

someone correct me if im wrong, but I belive on the HC11, you dont use the decompressor . from what I remember the stock starter is enough to handle it..

its been quite a few years and many models (and beers) since Ive done a hot cam on an ex, so one of you guys with more recent experience please correct me if im wrong, as my memory is a little vague on this step

[CJM]

Yea, dont bneed he decomp stuff if you run a hotcam.