smoke!!!!

[01boneless]

ok guys i replaced my rings and every thing in the motor looked good to me but even after i put new rings in it still smokes WORSE than a two stroke light blue. when im on the gas in the gears its not as bad but when i rev , decel and all it smokes bad!! any ideas? supposed to race tomarrow!

[honda400ex2003]

keep breaking it in and see how it goes. how long did you ride it and such?

steve

[matts27]

Originally posted by 01boneless
... on the gas in the gears its not as bad but when i rev , decel and all it smokes bad!! any ideas? supposed to race tomarrow!

Sounds like rings or cylinder egged. You got the gap good on the rings?? Matt

[01boneless]

rings are new i dident do any thing to thre gap i staggered them and the cylender is mint. steve its almost broke in but its smoke like it was befor i put the rings in?

[01boneless]

ok guys i checked and there is massive amounts of wet oil in the pipe and shotting a litle out? would a valve adjustment out of spec make it smoke?

[400EXRAY]

Sounds to me if you didn't have to file your rings then the cylinder wall is worn out enough to warrant a bore up to the next size. Because of that you'll need a new piston and again, new rings.

[01boneless]

Originally posted by 400EXRAY
Sounds to me if you didn't have to file your rings then the cylinder wall is worn out enough to warrant a bore up to the next size. Because of that you'll need a new piston and again, new rings.

idk about that because the piston had very little play in the sleve?

[HondaPohl]

You always have to check your ring end gap.

[01boneless]

well i had the shop put the rings on for me and they took them right out of the pack looked at them then put them on then staggered them also the oil is seaping out around the header ends on the motor. and out the silencer

[HondaPohl]

Your supposed to place the ring in the cylinder and measure the end gap.
Top .008 - .014
second .014 - .020
Oil side rail .008 - .028

[01boneless]

sh** and if you dont? lol apperentley my mechanic dident feel the need to because he also honed the clnder how bout bend burt vavles or valve seals?

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by 01boneless
sh** and if you dont? lol apperentley my mechanic dident feel the need to because he also honed the clnder how bout bend burt vavles or valve seals? if you dont gap the rings you could have issues with them seating properly and also a chance of seizure, rings are made to be too large to allow for multiple honing,..

if they went gaped they are probly too tight,and when the motor gets hot it will expand more and cause problems...

If I were you I would find another mechanic.. the rings should ALWAYS BE CHECKED for gap

[eprovenzano]

I'm leaning toward valve seals. Did you replace them when it was down?

[01boneless]

Originally posted by eprovenzano
I'm leaning toward valve seals. Did you replace them when it was down?

ik but i thought if was valve seals it would only do it on startup and dnb 3 different people told me that they did not need to be filed uhhh IDK

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by 01boneless
ik but i thought if was valve seals it would only do it on startup and dnb 3 different people told me that they did not need to be filed uhhh IDK the rings are not custom made to your exact size bore.. all bores are slightly different, even stock, but yours has been honed and the bore might already be over the size and you need to go up one bore size

how much piston clearance is there. your looking for a real number not them saying it looks good

they give generic size rings that will fit both stock up to a couple hones, and I will say it again THEY ALLWAYS ALLWAYS HAVE TO BE GAPED PROPERLY. if the gap is to big you need a new piston and bore.
if gap to small you file the end of rings... this is how it MUST be done every time no exceptions!!

think about it, how can one size fit all without a little filing...no two size bores will be the same

they make them big so they HAVE TO BE CHECKED and fitted

anyone that says it doesnt matter, I wouldn't let them change my tire, because they have no mechanical background,

you would be safest to find a new mechanic!

but I guess you dont have to gap them if you dont really care if it runs for long or not.

its the details that make the build, do it right the first time and be done with it...

it takes all of 5 minutes to do it right the first time but hours to take apart again to fix the 2nd time

[01boneless]

ok i think we figures it out we over filled it a bout 1/4 of oil or bout a cup. ive called many places and they all told me to check and see if i over filled it so ill check that out first?

[honda400ex2003]

anything is possible, check it properly though according to the manual. it says to keep it on flat ground, let it idle for a certain time length without revving, then check it from there.

check it out and report back. it probably wont really make a difference. the extra oil just sits in the tank so it would be tough to say it is getting too much.

its def time to find a new machinist man. you have had some crap work done by the guy that is doing your stuff imo.

steve

[01boneless]

ya he must be a rigger lol but yeah the oil was in it was about 2 qaurts and it akes a little less like 1.85 i think

[honda400ex2003]

usually 2 quarts when changing the filter is almost perfect. it is slightly more with a full top end rebuild usually depending on how much you added into the head during reassembly.

steve

[01boneless]

ok thanks what do you think about valve seals also good compression and runs better then ever?

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by 01boneless
ok thanks what do you think about valve seals also good compression and runs better then ever? what is your compression?

[01boneless]

about 125psi

[honda400ex2003]

it could be but i would still seriously doubt that it is. would be worth taking the head off and replacing them just for reassurance but that may not be the cause of the issue. hard to say without seeing it first hand.

might be worth doing a leak down test also and see what that looks like.

steve

[01boneless]

well we started to tear into it and pulled the silencer off and it was soaked in oil then we pull the header off and the end towards the rear was wet but not the ports near the motor then in the exaust ports was clean as can be ? just a little soot? so were hoping its just burning the old oil (when the rings were bad) out of the pipe we got it soaking all night in disel fuel lets just lee?

[honda400ex2003]

sounds good, maybe some new packing also would be good. soaking that or trying to clean it isnt going to do much good. once packing gets oiled it doesnt work anyway.

steve

[01boneless]

ya will do i packed it today with some steel wool but the oil probley already ruint it lol

[honda400ex2003]

lol packing is a touchy subject with me. i refuse to use steel wool... real packing is fiberglass and actually helps dampen the noise. steel wool is a cheap way out and unacceptable on any trail system as a packing material.

hope it works well for you, it is probably full of oil again though, time for another bag to repack it again.

steve

[01boneless]

update!
ok so that wasent the problem so i tore it down and it looks as though the oil is only shooting out one side of the exaust port the left. so does this mean that side needs a valve seal? also DnB i took the clnder of thus ripping the gasket to check the rings (i hope your happy lol :) ) and ill see if the need filed but ya every thing looked great other than the one port shooting oil?

[01boneless]

update!
ok so that wasent the problem so i tore it down and it looks as though the oil is only shooting out one side of the exaust port the left. so does this mean that side needs a valve seal? also DnB i took the clnder of thus ripping the gasket to check the rings (i hope your happy lol :) ) and ill see if the need filed but ya every thing looked great other than the one port shooting oil?

[HondaRacing83]

sounds to me like the rings are sitting right or its a valve seal.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by 01boneless
DnB i took the clnder of thus ripping the gasket to check the rings (i hope your happy lol :) ) ya now im happy:p
ill sleep better now, thanks,,,lol

[01boneless]

ya it done it befor the new rings and the rings are fine so i guess ill try a valve seal?

[01boneless]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
ya now im happy:p
ill sleep better now, thanks,,,lol

haha so what do you think about the valve seals?

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by 01boneless
haha so what do you think about the valve seals? it is possible the seals are bad,

ususally bad seals smoke more at startup then clear up some