re taping

[01boneless]

ok guys almost all my valve cover bolt holes are striped out and i was wondering what was the best way to go about it re taping or helicoil i know helicoil suck but will the heads of the next size bolt to have it taped to fit down on the the valve cover. also anyone have an estiment on what a shop whoud charge to re tap out about 12 holes?

[hocman123]

i would say if u could get a guy thats is good at helicoil i would do that if it is done right it will be fine there isn't a ton of pressure on there anyway.

i tried the tapeing to a 7 mm bolts but the problem with that is u make the gasket even thiner around the bolt area. after i went to 7mm i had 20 min on it when i felt hot oil splatter on my leg. then i did it again to the next standerd size (can't remember which one) and it leaked right away. then all there was to do was buy a new head on ebay because i was screwed the holes up to much by makeing them 2 big.

[01boneless]

Originally posted by hocman123
i would say if u could get a guy thats is good at helicoil i would do that if it is done right it will be fine there isn't a ton of pressure on there anyway.

i tried the tapeing to a 7 mm bolts but the problem with that is u make the gasket even thiner around the bolt area. after i went to 7mm i had 20 min on it when i felt hot oil splatter on my leg. then i did it again to the next standerd size (can't remember which one) and it leaked right away. then all there was to do was buy a new head on ebay because i was screwed the holes up to much by makeing them 2 big.


eww that rules out retaping lol any one else? any one have an idea on how mush a shop would charge to helicoil 12 holes>

[eprovenzano]

I stripped a few and re-taped to 1/4 inch std bolts.

[CJM]

1/4 inch would best to tap it out with, 6mm=.236 inches, 1/4 is .25.

The reason hocmans failed was the first time it was ok, didnt leak since we did 7mm, but we frigged up and used the wrong torque specs and stripped them, then we tried 8mm with no success iirc. I know the first time it didnt leak, the second it leaked right out the valve cover..

Id do 1/4", helicoils are ok but getting some of them in the correct depth in the topend might be difficult.

hey, worst case find someone selling a topend. PAredneck I know has a complete motor he might part with, just use your sleeve.

[01boneless]

ok so when i call the matchin shop i ask them to re tap my holes to fit a 1/4 bolt righ? also someone said oping this thing up will through my valves aout of adjustment and id have to adjust them is this true i dont have the tool to adjust them and they was just adjusted a month ago

[CJM]

yep, ask the machine shop to do 1/4" holes. Take the entire thing there with you and explain to them what you need to be done when you drop it off. They should do a good job.

It shouldnt throw them out to much if any.

You need 6 tools to adjust them and its Stupid Easy (http://www.atvriders.com/articles/valveadjustment400ex.html)
1. 10mm allen key
2. 6mm allen key
3. 10mm wrench
4. Flathead screwdriver
5. 24mm socket and ratchet
6. Feeler gauges, .04 and .05 inches.

Thats it, follow the instructions in the article and you will be fine.

[01boneless]

ya i know what i need i just dont have the feeler gages lol my mechcanic whats 6 bucks per hole to helicoil?

[eprovenzano]

re-taping to 1/4 inch bolts will have no effect on the valves. The head is positioned on the dowel pins, the bolts just hold it in place.

[CJM]

well thats oh like 75 bucks for the entire job if 6 bucks/ea.

I dont think people understand why they shouldnt helicoil these topends. The aluminum is very soft and a dissimilar metal such as stainless steel like a helicoil just doesnt work to well when you put even small torque on it. \


Telling ya, 1/4" bolts would be best. Worst case you waste 100 bucks at the machine shop and gotta get a new top end. I understand 100 bucks isnt exactly chump change but a new top end is (well used) is at least 300 bucks in the end. If you can save 200 now go for it.
Thats my take anyways.

[01boneless]

im gonna do the 1/4 bolt im just saying if they had helis in them i can srew new ones in but if not i can have them taped for 1/4. what all do i need to tap them myself?

[CJM]

Yea you can put new helicoils in if you got the kit.

To tap them yourself:
1. Tap handle and tap
2. Proper drill bit size
3. Some oil or preferably grease b/c grease holds the shavings in it better
4. Some brake cleen to clean it all up.

[01boneless]

well that chit is only like 25 buck why not tap them my self is it hard to do my dad sad you just drill it out and thread in the tap and thread it out and your done correct?

[hocman123]

Originally posted by CJM

The reason hocmans failed was the first time it was ok, didnt leak since we did 7mm, but we frigged up and used the wrong torque specs and stripped them, then we tried 8mm with no success iirc. I know the first time it didnt leak, the second it leaked right out the valve cover..

[/B]

no no thats not what happened the reason we teped it in the first place was because the first time we opened it we and closed it we put way to much and the thing started to leak after that we know what it had to be. and i would say most of the bolt on my head were heilcoiled when i got it but a complete idiot did the work with a few of them were broken off bolts that he didn't drill out all the way so when i tightend the other bolt up to would bottom out and be pulling the coils out. but once again the person that did that job was a idot. after that i dont think i had enaugh meat left to give the 7mm bolt enough thread to hold well and as i said 20 min in i blew my seal bad.

cjm i both know a good amount of machanics that say a good heilcoil is stronger then tapeing it because u are putting steal threads on the bolt instead of alumuim. hell the shop i had bore my cylinder says when they do 400 or other bike to make the head studs stronger they just drill out the holes and put 2 coils in each hole because the threads are the weak part the bolt them selfs never stripps. i expressed my consern about how he does it and he told me in the over 20 years he was in bussiness he has never had one come back for the studs pulling out. but sence i had allready order hd studs i just had him install them.

cjm just had bad luck on his own doing it on his atv a few times and has now riden them off as a horriable thing to do.

[hocman123]

all in all thought if get the job done right u shouldn't have any problem with ether methed

[punk rock kiel]

if you have a drill press, you can do it yourself. just tap to 1/4-28 and maybe go a tad deeper and get longer bolts. ive been in machining for a while and its not that hard.

[CJM]

Agreed hocman. I think the issue is usually with helicoils there is more meat to grab-dang heads on these things have so little its not funny.

Whatever you do boneless, just hope it works

[01boneless]

so i no i want to tap it out to a 1/4 hole but what bolt do it need ? sorry this confuses me when the tap is 25 i dont want to pay a shop 100 to do it when can do it my self

[CJM]

25 bucks for a tap? I buy'em all the time at home depot for like 5 bucks each. The tap holders a bit $ but hey return it if you dont need it.

You need a 1/4" tap, it will be marked usually. Notice the bolt sizes, the bolt will probably be marked something like 1/4x28, 28 indicating the thread pitch or how many threads there are in a given area on the bolt. There is 1/4x20, 28, 18, etc. Just find the correct size for the bolt your using. I would take all your bolts with you and try and get as close to the same length as you canw ith the new ones. A few 16th's of a inch wont matter, but just dont go to dang short or long.

[01boneless]

thanks cjm the shop is going to hone and apply the rings for free since i bought the rings and gasket kit from them the rings were 30 gaskets were 44 but they were namura? im almost sure those suck but i dident relize he said that so im gonna cancel those and order cometic ones mls of corse lol the cam chain fell of the bottom sproket so ill have to take off tghe side case and put it back on and to think i paid 450 buck for a timming chain job and as i have come to realize the ex motor is pretty simple?

[hocman123]

as long as u can grab the chain with a magnet or screw drive and pull it back up with out opening the case it should just do right back on with no issues i have done it a ton

[01boneless]

no the chain never fell down in there it just came off i think or is that possible? also i pmed you

[hocman123]

yea i am not 100 % sure but i dont think it can slip off and if it ever did u should be able to just pull it up and out the top and if u can't do that its still on. sometimes it can get a little jamed up down there when it is loose but a bet if u turn the crank when holding the cahin up it would spin

[CJM]

Yea super simple.

The chain is probably hung up as hocman said. Dont need to take it apart, just fish it out. Course taking off the clutch is fun and a learning experience as well.

[01boneless]

yeah if i dont have to take it off im not gonna. anothe question that is way off topicif i take on link out of my chain will i be able to adjust it down enuf to work right?

[CJM]

Your drive chain, depends. Why would you want to remove a link-to long?

Chain should have about 1.5" of play at the center with no weight on it and be tight when you sit on the quad.

[01boneless]

yeah i got a new one and its to long and all the way tight it still is so i figure if i remove a link and losen it it should work lol

[hocman123]

yea that sounds right most people get a longer then needed chain and cut it down to size