Loretta's

[hwf-racing]

Congrats to all our Dade City Riders. Special congrats to Cale Deal on his stock 70, whipping all the 90cc riders. Also, congrats to Eli Hopkins and DJ Bassani on their championships. And can't forget Freida Rozelle she does so much for our kids, Thankyou a 1000 times. Derek

[greenmachine70]

Cale is a beast!! And he just turned 8 last week!!!
According to escoremx he was running 12-15 second faster laps than the class champion and it was on a DRR 70 against all 90's!!!!:D
Seems that upset the champs dad and he protested the high horsepower rpm axle on the quad.
Cale would break a stock axle on the first lap......
Sure is stupid the atva allows $2500 shocks and not an axle. Shocks make faster riders, axles are purely a safety issue. One would think with all the bs from the cpsc this would be a concern since we all know the stock axles are garbage on both apex and drr.
Good call atva rules committee:rolleyes:

[hwf-racing]

Good call Goodman, you got to call it how you see it:D

[selbygirl]

i thought you wasnt allowed to run a 70 in the 90 class this year. last year you could .the year before you couldnt. who makes up these rules.. we should be able to vote on it. one vote per ama or atva card member.. we had to build 2 bikes so we could run 2 classes this year.it would be nice to run one bike wuold save me a ton of money

[greenmachine70]

it is a stock 70 in the 90 cvt limited class.
Stock 90 vs stock 70, we are not talking about 70cvt class quads running the rt motors.

[thequadfather+2]

not twisting screws here but our bike was one of the only true stock bikes out there. Straight out of the box and on the track, never even had the cvt cover off until early sunday morning. It never even had a torque spring replaced in it....the same jets that it came out of the box with too. if I am not mistaken Voiles quad was almost the same way. We were dead last going into turn 1 on Saturday. True stock 90. BTW Brady just turned 8 a month ago as well....

We purchased 2 brand new quads at the same time, a 70 and 90. our 70 wouldnt out-run our 90, infact it was some what slower in stock trim than our 90...

I will leave all the axle, steering stabilizers discussions to yall. There was also one DRR with an after market pipe...

Enjoyed seeing everyone, it was fun.

[LT80]

"i thought you wasnt allowed to run a 70 in the 90 class this year."
Ya, what's up w/that. I'm not saying that I agreed with the rule,,but....
BTW, I'm not looking to discount the great riding ability of this racer.

Congrats to all the riders!

[rd2005]

Originally posted by thequadfather+2
not twisting screws here but our bike was one of the only true stock bikes out there. Straight out of the box and on the track, never even had the cvt cover off until early sunday morning. It never even had a torque spring replaced in it....the same jets that it came out of the box with too. if I am not mistaken Voiles quad was almost the same way. We were dead last going into turn 1 on Saturday. True stock 90. BTW Brady just turned 8 a month ago as well....

We ran a stock 90 as well including the carb jetting (just as if new out of the box) & everything was stock except for items that add comfort or extra protection like handle bars & nerfs. My son Chris #4 finished 5th on Sunday. I felt the class was very fair & balanced. Locally we race against bikes that are built & there's no way we can trully compete. The 90 CVT Limited race this past weekend was so great for us & we can't wait to start riding the nationals next season.

I have to say THANK YOU to Justin & all the folks from the Maximum RPM Team. My son broke his swing arm during practice on Saturday. We were going to have to pack up & go home but Justin & his team took care of my son & fixed him up so that he could race his first ever national race. I can't say enough about how awesome they were & how friendly. Because of them our boy raced & had so much fun out there on the track! Thank You Justin & Team Maximum RPM!!!!!! :D

[thequadfather+2]

Yes I understand what you are saying and really glad you guys had a good time. The class is a good idea and I wish it had better numbers earlier in the year. I think the late notice and addition of the class was the main reason. If they keep the class I think it will grow. We only ran it a couple times. We took it out of the box, let it run for about 10 minutes and loaded into the trailer headed to Illinois, Brady had never even rode an Apex.

We should have changed the things that were allowed and that's our fault, or choice really. The handle bars suck and have a huge vibration issue, we were still on the stock shocks as well, didnt even adjust them....The chain was the biggest issue because it has a slider and no tensioner, hate the slider.

Now we are going to convert it into a fully built 70.

[d1g888]

Originally posted by greenmachine70
Cale is a beast!! And he just turned 8 last week!!!
According to escoremx he was running 12-15 second faster laps than the class champion and it was on a DRR 70 against all 90's!!!!:D
Seems that upset the champs dad and he protested the high horsepower rpm axle on the quad.
Cale would break a stock axle on the first lap......
Sure is stupid the atva allows $2500 shocks and not an axle. Shocks make faster riders, axles are purely a safety issue. One would think with all the bs from the cpsc this would be a concern since we all know the stock axles are garbage on both apex and drr.
Good call atva rules committee:rolleyes:
That was the second moto and she had a wreck.
Cale was about 1 -2 sec a lap better in moto one.
Cale is a good rider.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by greenmachine70
Cale is a beast!! And he just turned 8 last week!!!
According to escoremx he was running 12-15 second faster laps than the class champion and it was on a DRR 70 against all 90's!!!!:D
Seems that upset the champs dad and he protested the high horsepower rpm axle on the quad.
Cale would break a stock axle on the first lap......
Sure is stupid the atva allows $2500 shocks and not an axle. Shocks make faster riders, axles are purely a safety issue. One would think with all the bs from the cpsc this would be a concern since we all know the stock axles are garbage on both apex and drr.
Good call atva rules committee:rolleyes:

Okay, Just to clear this up a little, Cale's father (and his pose) WAS told before the race started that - for the kid - they'd allow him to race even though his quad was NOT with-in the rules (steering stabilizer IS an advantage as is a wider axel) and they'd not count his finishing position. I guess in the future, instead of parents being nice and allowing illegal machines to race, we have to be hard nosed and say no from the beginning.
And for the record, the new stock 70 cylinder is a very close copy of the Malossi Team cylinder and WILL smoke any and all stock 90 cylinders out there.
I agree the rules may not be perfect but the rules are the rules.
I personally fought the whole 70cc vs 90cc two years ago - it was changed for one year to 51cc to 90cc then someone complained and got it put back to 71 - 90cc.

[fastrnrik]

haha funny. Deal doesn't run any new style 70 "malossi copy" cylinder in that bike. It's a plain old cast iron DRR 70 cylinder. We run the same setup in our Dade City 70. So does Skellet. So do half a dozen others down here. It's nothing fancy or top secret by any means LOL. We have to run the normal old cast iron cyl because thats part of our "stock appearing" class at Dade City, so we've figured out how to make it work. As for the wider axle.... Deal runs them, like we all do, for strength, not any kind of width advantage. (they're legal in our stock classes as a safety issue) Deal's 70 has stock arms with 4/1's and the axle spaced all the way in. Again our 70's are all pretty much set up the same, just different colors.
I'm not defending Deal. He's my friend, but he's a big boy and if he broke the rules then thats his bad. I will say that he is definitely not a cheater. If he was outside the rules then it's because he didn't know, never really thought of it being an issue, or didn't read the rules thoroughly (he's kind of a goofball! LOL). We all know ignorance or not knowing a rule is no excuse, but we all know if Cale would have ridden around in the back, it would have NEVER been an issue. But he obviously didn't and someone got their lil ***ego*** bruised and cried about it. That's racing. In my opinion, the class is a good idea, but any time you have a "stock / limited" type class you are going to have more of these types of problems. It's over and done with now so it don't matter anyway

On a lighter note, this was my sons second national. We ran 50cvt and 50 Sr. We didn't bring NEAR enough power for either class. I think we had the only stock Cobra 50 there LOL. But we had a lot of fun, ran pretty good for what we had, and came home safe so it's all good. And thanks to Skellet for the help with our bike. He helped us for many hours to get dialed in. And lots of thanks to Mr Freeman for all his help too. Drive home sucked. Had to drive 12 hour home all night because my son started school today! LOL

PS- Logan#34Dad- is there really a new "malossi copy" stock DRR 70 cylinder? Details? Post a link. I haven't seen one and would like to see it.

[greenmachine70]

as the last post said, had cale placed in the bottom positions I bet my paycheck he wouldnt have been protested and DQ'd. No matter where he finished it did not affect the outcome of the points in the class.
I guess all you guys chose to "let" the aftermarket pipe run too but since he didnt smoke the field it was ok and that little boy/girl got to keep the finish he/she worked hard for.........
As for Deals quad it is not wider it is set to stock width for our local stock appearing class.

[Logan #34's Dad]

This is not my lil fight but the rules are clear. If you show up to race, know the rules. If you are not allowed to change or use something then you can't.
And your right, no-one cares what you do until you win! That's the way it's always been and will be.
I understand he didn't have a "real" advantage but if the equipment in not legal - its not legal.

[hwf-racing]

This post was posted to recognize what a great job Cale, Eli and DJ did this weekend and throughout the year . Of course, to give a big hand to Frieda for all her hard work she does for OUR kids. Listen there is one thing for sure and that is Cale did one heck of a job on a stock 70. I dont know how many times I've seen an axle break in front of my son hoping it wont impale him through his chest. Two years ago one of our fastest girls busted her axle on a big table and almost got my son. A axle is a saftey issue only. Rocky, guranteed if you put a stock axle on Logan's quad he would still ride the same which is all out and yes he will break that axle. You just hope the axle works its way off the track! It's sad that when the commitee got together on rules that an aftermarket axle was not in the mix:huh Yes rules are rules and Cale didn't bring home a first place but next time rules will be read and followed!!!!!! Derek

[Logan #34's Dad]

Derick, I hear what your saying and totally agree with you. I spoke to the guys from RPM and they loose their butts on these lifetime axels. That's why they cost so much. A lot of kids snapped them this weekend including Logan. Hopefully the rules committee will address this issue for this class. The best part about this class is that it makes the manufacturers step for better quality stuff.
I listened to this race on the radio and it sounded like a good one. The kid must have skill! The other riders u mention do for sure!
The one thing that made this all go bad was the way the dad and his lil pose conducted themselves at the gate.

[hwf-racing]

Agreed Rocky, cooler heads should have prevailed.

[fastrnrik]

So, if you listened to the race on the radio then that means you weren't actually standing there to see what happened, and one of your buddies told you what happened in staging, and all about how Cales dad and his "posse" (funny...) were so bad, blah blah blah. Just so there's no confusion, I was standing there the whole time and honestly the whole thing was no big deal. Sure Cales dad was upset about being protested for "illegal" equipment, especially considering there were other bikes in the class that were not legal either. Who wouldn't be? He wasn't loud, obnoxious, or the least bit confrontational. I thought he, and the others with him were very friendly and civil the entire time.
Don't dog on Cales dad. I was the one who laughed at the other guy, because where I come from if you act like a clown you get laughed at. He didn't like it, got mad, and showed his a.ss a little. I probably did a little too. The whole thing was no big deal. The whole situation was funny and lasted about 2 seconds and we both went about our business. I saw that guy and Cales dad standing on the line talking & being friendly afterwards. To say cooler heads should have prevailed is funny because from where I was standing that's exaclty what happened.
It's racing. Whoever is crying about all this needs to man up and let it go already. Just my $.02

[531dad]

Who had an illegal pipe? Oh yeah in regards to the VA jay jay comment. You should think before you write kinda of look like an A** hole being a girl runs this class.

[apexpilot]

Fastrnik is right about no big deal, or at least that was the case until he stuck his nose in and started poking fun at others. And as I remember it everything was pretty good until I "acted like a clown" when I said that it was not me that protested, and I already told Smitty that I had no problem with kids getting to ride in the class on a bike that's outside the rules. I also agree he should not get scored for it. I guess that is funny to some and you laughed at me, ha ha! (I still don't get it)
My point was and is still the same play by the rules or stay home.
I heard several times how it would be OK in Fl. or it should be OK in a stock appearing class. So for fastrnik I'LL SAY IT REAL SLOW, the 90 limited class is NOT a S T O C K A P P E A R I N G C L A S S!! This class is listed as a 90cc limited. ( beginner class.) The axle should not be that big of a deal if you are a true beginner, I don't remember one broken axle in this class all year. It would be very hard for beginners to qualify even in the 90 jr class given the level of competition today not even thinking of 90cvt. This gives 8 to 15 year olds a place to start.
As far as the posse is concerned there was several of you-all up in staging and even more in the mechanics area. Most tracks allow only a couple per rider. Or did I miss it, did you (fastrnik)have a kid in the class?
As far as Cale's dad is concerned, He and I are fine, He even defended my son to one of the loud mouths under the shed. Thank you for that Mr.Deal. He even told me on the gate to ignore what I hear under the shed. I tried.
Things recorded under the mechanics shed, watch Cale pass this slow kid in the whoops, (he didn't, he passed him on the last turn on lap 2 when my son spun out in the freshly watered corner) and one said well he was going to pass him anyway, Move that junk out of his way, And My favorite ... to think these kids run the Nationals!!! Some of you should be so proud! So I think
" "posse" (funny...) were so bad, blah blah blah". Is not too far off.
I also agree Cale's dad was not obnoxious, you and I know who that was... and where I come from when you act like the south end of a mule, well you know.... As far as Man Up and let it go already, who's crying? I think the only one crying is posting about bruised v- j-j's!!??? What's up with that. I think an apology is in order for such remarks. After all the class champ is a young lady. And a very respectful person and rider.. So man up yourself.
So here's the deal I did not start this, I did not protest, I did not start the conversation on the line, or on this fourm about it, but I am over it, cooler heads should always prevail, and just when fasternik stepped away they did! hmm...
As I respond to this I remember when someone under the mechanics shed said "to think these kids run the Nationals" and it hit me, it is not only the kids on the National level. I am proud of all the kids, and equally as proud of the parents for setting the standard for National level.
Chuck Losey The proud dad of Justin #819.
And by the way, was it not good racing on the track? I thought so..


Originally posted by fastrnrik
So, if you listened to the race on the radio then that means you weren't actually standing there to see what happened, and one of your buddies told you what happened in staging, and all about how Cales dad and his "posse" (funny...) were so bad, blah blah blah. Just so there's no confusion, I was standing there the whole time and honestly the whole thing was no big deal. Sure Cales dad was upset about being protested for "illegal" equipment, especially considering there were other bikes in the class that were not legal either. Who wouldn't be? He wasn't loud, obnoxious, or the least bit confrontational. I thought he, and the others with him were very friendly and civil the entire time.
Don't dog on Cales dad. I was the one who laughed at the other guy, because where I come from if you act like a clown you get laughed at. He didn't like it, got mad, and showed his a.ss a little. I probably did a little too. The whole thing was no big deal. The whole situation was funny and lasted about 2 seconds and we both went about our business. I saw that guy and Cales dad standing on the line talking & being friendly afterwards. To say cooler heads should have prevailed is funny because from where I was standing that's exaclty what happened.
It's racing. Whoever is crying about all this needs to man up and let it go already. Just my $.02

[Ride1Rob]

LOL, Mini Quads :tired: . Great job Cale and Mike Deal ;)

[Ride1Rob]

And I'd really like to clear something up. The axle can be an advantage. If the riders knows it less likely to snap he may hit those jumps alil harder or case into them just that much more aggressively. On the "Flip side" if a kid has a stock axle he may not ride as hard because he knows the axle won't last. I wasn't there, don't know if this was the case, but the axle can be an advantage.

[rookiewrench]

I am not sure about the rules of the limited class but if it is a true "beginner" class why is it that the champion of the class has raced nationals for this being the third year. If everyone in the class was a true beginner then I would be in favor of keeping the class but i also realize how do you prove if one is a beginner or a experienced rider. The turn out for the class seemed low all year and I wonder if they will keep the class next year.

[jay-r]

If the limited classes are supposed to provide a class for kids to begin running nationals, then they should make it a rule that if the child has won a national race or placed top 5 in the points standings in another class then they should not be eligible to run a limited class. Many kids do not get started racing as early as others here and this would allow them to start somewhere at a later age. I know this is beside the point, but I think it would be a good idea.

I wasn't there to see what happened, but I met Mike Deal last year at Loretta's and he is a great guy and helped me out alot when we ran the 50 limited class. I am glad they let Cale ride, he is a great rider. But, I agree that rules are rules and I think they did the right thing with scoring. I have seen many axles break and I have also seen the riders ride very timid the next time out. So, it can be a mental advantage. I agree that the stronger axles should be allowed, my daughter broke her stock drr axle on our little track at home when she was 5 years old!

The Va jay jay comment is uncalled for, there are many talented female riders in the youth classes. My daughter raced 50 sr at Loretta's, she just turned 7 a couple of weeks ago, how about a little respect!

We had a great time this past weekend, maybe next year we can run more nationals. Our lap times were good and I am happy with Jordyn's finish, but we got smoked on the start. We are going to need more than the stock motor we ran this year! :eek2:

[selbygirl]

like jay-r sed i feel if you domanate a class for a year or two you should move on to the next class,, give the younger ones a chance .. you have 11 year olds in the 70 class and 15 teen year olds in the 90 class.. my son turned 9 after the cut off date.. and i cuold of kept him in the 50 class but he told me it wouldnt be fair to the younger racers,, so he runs the 70 and 90 classes.. and broden will tell you some of the toughest racers out there are girls

[EthansDad]

I am not sure about the rules of the limited class but if it is a true "beginner" class why is it that the champion of the class has raced nationals for this being the third year. If everyone in the class was a true beginner then I would be in favor of keeping the class but i also realize how do you prove if one is a beginner or a experienced rider. The turn out for the class seemed low all year and I wonder if they will keep the class next year.

Ah, another happy 50 parent! the limited class is not a beginner class, and there have been a number of riders before us that have raced it in their AMA 5 and 6 year old seasons, just none that have won it in both.

Before the start of the season, we talked it over and bottom line, my kid wanted to run it. When I look at other racing in the AMA, like dirt bikes at LL or mini-O's, you better bet the kid winning the 50cc class is at the top of the age range, even in the 50 shaft class (their entry class). that is just how it is.

IMO - the beginner class is called "local or district racing". nationals is nationals, a place for the top riders in their age range and bike restriction limits around the USA to duke it out.

If you don't like it, contact the AMA and lobby to start up a new class with the rules you propose. that is what I did a couple of years ago when I helped start the 50CVT class with a few other parents that felt the same.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=415592&highlight=70cvt+limited

and here:
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=415417

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by EthansDad
IMO - the beginner class is called "local or district racing". nationals is nationals, a place for the top riders in their age range and bike restriction limits around the USA to duke it
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=415592&highlight=70cvt+limited

and here:
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=415417

I agree! The dirtbikes have area qualifier races and from there you go to regionals. You qualify for the national race only if you place in the top 7 at your regional. That top 7 move on to Lorettas for the nationals. There's no just show up and let me see what lil Tommy can do on the national level. But then again the #'s are higher for the dirtbikes so that's probably why they have to it that way. If not, it would be over 100 bikes per class easy show up that week to race.

[jay-r]

Ethan's dad, please take no offense to my comment, it was not directed toward you. Maybe someone else's comment was.

Ethan had every right to run the 50 limited class. He also is an excellent rider. It is not a begginner class, it is an entry level age class. If we had run the 50 limited class this year, I would have been happy to have the competition. We moved up early due to wanting a more competitive quad for local races. I was really speaking of the 90 limited class.

You are exactly right that these are the nationals. Yes, it is the parents fault for not seeking competitive local quad races. I see that happen all the time. I have seen many local series that have only one mini quad class and really no competition. Our local series does not offer a beginner youth quad class. This actually turns beginner riders away and makes it dangerous when we have beginners out there with the fast 50s. This is not soccer where everyone gets a trophy, but we want to encourage more racers to come out. Spread the addiction. :D

Loretta's even had a youth beginner bike class this year. But, I fear that it devalues the meaning of the national race.

[EthansDad]

No offense jay r. I wasn't quoting you. Since there is only one other limited class, and no 90 limited last year , there is only person he's talking about. Could have come up and said something, a number of other parents did and I told them the same.

Fact is, if we didn't run, you would have had another 50 rider older than my kid and a three year vet in the class take the title.

Jay and rob, you make good points about growing the sport. It would be best to have regional qualifiers, but we dont have the numbers.

Bottom line- the rules are the rules, and both limited classes say nothing about rider skill. Maybe a topic for another thead, now is the time of year to Lobby up changes to the AMA.

[greenmachine70]

I say if it is a "limited" class and that means as close to stock as possible, then dont let them change the shocks.
Beginner riders will race stock shocks and not know the difference, experienced riders will not go back to stock after they have ridden aftermarket. If they do they likely will break the frame, swinger or axle for obvious reasons.
This will weed out the non beginner riders easily and give the true beginners a class they deserve.
stock appearing is basically what you would get, stock frame, shocks, axle, cases, cylinder, arms, swinger. Gussets, jets, air filter, rims, sprockets are ok, internal upgrades as long as cc limit is not passed.
This is where it gets tricky, stuffer cranks, one ring pistons, port & polish and clutching can make a stock appearing quad run like heck, but it is stock appearing and I have seen stock clutching win races and holeshots as well in the classes we have here but porting is a must. I know this is a class that would take some serious know how to police though......
Glad my son is out of money...errr mini quads.....LOL

[fastrnrik]

haha Wow, some yall are too funny. Quick to twist stuff around and out of wack. I very obviously never made any comments about any of the girls that race in that class or any other. We race with plenty of girls too. If you read it that way then you misread it. I was referring to dads crying and was being sarcastic in a reply to another dude and that's it. Poor choice of words maybe, but that's it... my bad. Seriously, if that "offended" anyone then you really need to lighten up a little. Nonetheless, since it was apparently easily misunderstood, I went back and changed it so relax....

[rookiewrench]

Ah, another happy 50 parent! the limited class is not a beginner class
Sorry I was not refering to you and the 50 class I was refering to a quote from apexpilot


This class is listed as a 90cc limited. ( beginner class.)
I have not read the rules with the limited classI just assumed that they did to make a comment. I should just stick to the 90 mod and supermini rules because I know them.
Sorry for the confusion.

[fastflame1]

This is my opinion of the limited class. It is a budget class. Everybody can't afford to put 10-12k in to a mini. I don't agree with keeping the stock shocks and think we should be able to change axle. All for safety reasons. Once your kids start hitting jumps hard the shocks take most of the pounding not the kids. Also think there should be a 70 limited class.
We only got to go to 3 nationals this year, Austin had a great time at all of them, but loretta's was far the best time we had. Know why everybody said if you go to any, go to Loretta's

[rd2005]

Originally posted by fastflame1
This is my opinion of the limited class. It is a budget class. Everybody can't afford to put 10-12k in to a mini. I don't agree with keeping the stock shocks and think we should be able to change axle. All for safety reasons. Once your kids start hitting jumps hard the shocks take most of the pounding not the kids.
I agree with you fastflame1 100%! I am one of those parents that can't sink tons of $$$ into our mini quad. That's why we entered our boy into the 90 CVT Limited class. It was the only class he had a chance to race that seemed fair for the type of quad he was riding. My boy races on stock shocks but we now need to upgrade because he is breaking stuff & is taking a beating. Safety improvements such as better axle & upgraded shocks should be allowed as well.

[zach R 7x]

Limited is limited. First it starts out with shocks, then axle, then swing arms start breaking, saftey issue just as much as an axle is . Before you know it , you have $2000 in shocks , $2000 in suspension, $3-400 in axle etc.. It will never end, been around racing long time and these stock or limited class's never stay stock!

[doonanracing]

One thing I never understood is why MX youth classes are classified so differently than adult classes. Stock. not stock. mod, auto. shifter. etc. everyone walks the lines and year after year rules change so what is legal this year might not be next year or vice versus. It is simple and you will have simply the same number of classes to run if you run 2 . 50cc "a"b"c class... 70cc a.b.c class .. 90cc a b c classes..youth jr 8-11 up to 90cc open... youth sr 12-15 up to 90cc open, girls .. supermni.. schoolboy jr and schoolboy sr.. this would solve all these arguments.. does not matter if you are on a jb, fischer. cobra, drr. apex, kasea if it is 90cc and you are one of the best you are in the 90cc" a "class and can also run the age group classes.. if you show up at your first national than " c "class is where you are not worried if you have some aftermarket parts etc. just as long as you meet cc requirements. Look at times from Loretta.s Fastest times in 90 classes 1.53 1.55 1.48 and 1.53 these where on mods, cvt and production .. 70 classes 1.58 2.01 1.56 .. 50 classes 2.10 2.04.. these look pretty close to me and I am comparing the fastest 2nd moto times no matter what they are running..These cvt's can get just the same HP as a CR motor now with some set up's and can when tuned run and are fast. You win or are way too fast for a lower class you move up just like the adults have to do. This will let the fast kids race with the fast kids and believe me they are going to get faster going against a full gate of all the best. 90/70/ or 50 "A" class race would be one heck of a race to watch and most likely just as good if not better than the Pro Race. Also it would put to rest things like what is being mentioned here and these arguments that seem to be the same from year to year with just different people. Kids just want to race and off the track I don't see too many kids that don't get along with their competition. Just my thoughts. Congradulations to all the winners and all those whom showed up race after race and the parents for all the blood. sweat and tears to go into this sport.

[chunky0071]

Just mt 2 cents but Why not run the same rules we run in the Gncc. Limited and MOD. 50, 70, and 90 that would make 6 classes. Limited is stock no after market. It's hard to run 2 series if you run limited. What we can run in one you can't run in the other! Money is a big issue I can't afford to have 2 bikes set up for 2 different series. The A, B, And C classes not so much. We can't make this sport grow in these times with out making it so that any one can show up and have a shot. Thats why the bike #'s are so high it's cheaper!

[nitrofish]

Agreed with Mr. Doonan racing, classes should be realigned. His last statement says it all."Kids just want to race and off the track I don't see too many kids that don't get along with their competition." I think more folks would show up at these races including us if things were run a bit different and the parental whining removed. Matt.

[tyler70t]

Sounds like too much hassle & money to me to be involved with those Nationals. Up here in the northeast we have plenty of tracks and some really talented racers. We can find a race to go to almost every weekend from March til November if we want, and that only requires a couple hours of driving. I have yet to see 2 parents bickering over anything regarding mini quads in our 3 years in the sport, we do anything in our power just to ensure the kids are all out on the track. Congrats to all the little guys and girls!

[#404's Dad]

I don't have a horse in this race nor do I know anything about what went on BUT Rules are Rules and Cheating is Cheating no matter how you slice it up.

[Ride1Rob]

Cheating...? If you're referencing that to Mike that's way out of line! You cheat when you try and hide it. It was known about the axle when Mike rolled to the gate. From what I'm told there was another bike on the gate with a silencer and nothing was said or done about it.

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
Cheating...? If you're referencing that to Mike that's way out of line!

Nope not out of line at all and definitely not insinuating that ANYONE is cheating, not at all just saying that as an in general statement =)

[framer1]

Originally posted by EthansDad
No offense jay r. I wasn't quoting you. Since there is only one other limited class, and no 90 limited last year , there is only person he's talking about. Could have come up and said something, a number of other parents did and I told them the same.

Fact is, if we didn't run, you would have had another 50 rider older than my kid and a three year vet in the class take the title.

Jay and rob, you make good points about growing the sport. It would be best to have regional qualifiers, but we dont have the numbers.

Bottom line- the rules are the rules, and both limited classes say nothing about rider skill. Maybe a topic for another thead, now is the time of year to Lobby up changes to the AMA.



i dont think that is true since we would have gone for a run for the title if we thought we had a chance but with Ethan in it we simply could not match his 7 yr old ability i know rules are rules and he was allowed to race and that is a fine but i do think when a downed economy is upon us and we are trying to get more riders maybe lets give some younger riders a chance if you have other classes that can be run and maybe the turn out would be better...............i realize the 50 limited is not a beginner class by the rules but it is by the officials at the first race i was told we can go on the track to help because they are begginers...we had a chance to be competative this year next year we will be there for fun in the 50cvt class.................... but you can bet next april ill be trying to make the 2020 50 limited champ lol

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by #404's Dad
I don't have a horse in this race nor do I know anything about what went on BUT Rules are Rules and Cheating is Cheating no matter how you slice it up.

Well it's kinda hard to not think so based on your comment above and being that most of this thread is over the axle on Mike's bike. I'm just saying.... if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I'll be damn if it ain't one :ermm: . I just call it how I see it!

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
Well it's kinda hard to not think so based on your comment above and being that most of this thread is over the axle on Mike's bike. I'm just saying.... if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I'll be damn if it ain't one :ermm: . I just call it how I see it!

Hahahahaha, whatever you say LOL!!

I don't know Mike, I don't have a quad in this class nor do I give a chit what happened @ Loretta's, My point is no matter what class or series it is if you are in if you're outside the guide lines of the rules then its cheating sooo my friend like you said "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I'll be damn if it ain't one" soo . . . . . .

Solution: Keep up on the Rules for each Class and Series you intend to run and stay in the guide lines and then there are no worries, pretty damn simple ;)

My statement is not directed at ANY one person or incident its directed at ALL OF US.

Carry on, don't let me interrupt your stirring of the pot ;)

[EthansDad]

Skellet, that's a load of garbage. Ethan was not the oldest in the class, there were a bunch of older AMA 6 year olds in the field if you bothered to ask around. Fact is, your rider went from a podium contender to mid pack for some reason, Ethan did not get faster. There where a number of kids, older and younger that gave him a run this year.

If you want to drop a series cause you can't win, so be it...I might do the same..just don't go crying unfair. If you don't like the rules, change them or shut it.

[Rich243]

Ethan took 2nd in his 1st year (AMA 4 year old) and won the series last year and this year. There were no 7 year olds in the mix those previous years??? Hard to believe......

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by #404's Dad
My point is no matter what class or series it is if you are in if you're outside the guide lines of the rules then its cheating sooo my friend like you said "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I'll be damn if it ain't one" soo . . . . . .

Solution: Keep up on the Rules for each Class and Series you intend to run and stay in the guide lines and then there are no worries, pretty damn simple

You call it stirring the pot. I call it speaking up for people that are being categorized in a negative way for something he/she is not. I didn't make the comment, you did brother. In which you replied to my response that it wasn't intended for him, yet you came right back and basically stated he's a cheater again with your comments above. That's what we call talking out of both sides of your mouth my friend.

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
You call it stirring the pot. I call it speaking up for people that are being categorized in a negative way for something he/she is not. I didn't make the comment, you did brother. In which you replied to my response that it wasn't intended for him, yet you came right back and basically stated he's a cheater again with your comments above. That's what we call talking out of both sides of your mouth my friend.

Like I said I am not calling any specific person a cheater and I don't know Mike or the situation that happened at Loretta's BUT like I also said if you're outside the guide lines of the rules then you're cheating no matter who you're so you be the judge bro.

Its NOT yours or anyone else's opinion that matters on whats cheating and whats not, its the Rules and the Referee's that make those calls.

Any further questions or comments for me you can gimmie a call at anytime. 419-517-6070

Corey

[Ride1Rob]

;)

[framer1]

Originally posted by EthansDad
Skellet, that's a load of garbage. Ethan was not the oldest in the class, there were a bunch of older AMA 6 year olds in the field if you bothered to ask around. Fact is, your rider went from a podium contender to mid pack for some reason, Ethan did not get faster. There where a number of kids, older and younger that gave him a run this year.

If you want to drop a series cause you can't win, so be it...I might do the same..just don't go crying unfair. If you don't like the rules, change them or shut it.







i definetly am not crying un fair like is said you were within the rules i never said that and i am not taking anything away from ethan he is a great rider im just saying we live a long way to go to nationals to not have a chance and we have a great locall series with some very good competition all i said was i i couldnt drive that far not to have a chance i realize that there were other 7 year olds in that class but they did not win the title the year before when you go on in other classes after you win a class you move out i realize its an age class and you were within the rules im was just simply commenting on your comment that the title would have went to another 7 year old when i think we would have had a shot at it ... also not saying nobody else did because there are a lot of great riders in the class and i think your son was a big obstacle in the way of a lot of other getting on the podium take that how you will iwas not meaning it in a derogatory way.....im just saying

[EthansDad]

i think your son was a big obstacle in the way of a lot of other getting on the podium

That was our entire point of being there, thanks.

you know, you could say all the 50 classes are for entry level as parents are allowed on the track for all of them, and they are the smallest bike size out there. in the 50 CVT class this year, a 9 year old with a number of state championships under his belt spanked the field all season long. Did I gripe? heck no. Great rider and family and it was clear the kid wanted to win every time he got on the track. We keep plugging at it all season and when it was all said and done, shook his dad's hand and said great job...they earned it...and their choice to chase that class within the AMA's rules.

in 09 when Ethan took 2nd, we were chasing DJ, who also has a birth day that had him 7 yrs old for most of the season. Ethan was not the 2nd fastest rider on the track that year, Dale was clearly the kid chasing DJ, we just keep plugging at it, glad we had a chance to ride with such talented racers - and learn what it would take for next season.


7 year olds in that class but they did not win the title the year before when you go on in other classes after you win a class you move out


As for the repeat title, its allowed. There have been other kids that won the limited title in their 5 yr old seasons and come back the next season (07-08), just no one has ever won it twice. There was also a kid this season that won the 90 Jr and SR title...good job to them for picking up what they can while they are there!

We're proud of our kid for making some history this year as the only kid to every win that class twice. so if you had to pull back for travel or other reasons I get it. just don't take away from what we've accomplished this year. If you don't agree with the AMA's class structure, you should contact them and propose some changes.

-EA