another 400EX build

[bryan1984]

Hey all, i acquired another 02 400ex from a guy the other day. Pretty cheap. Has alot of extras. The engine has Big gun cdi, stage 3 hot cam, wiseco 440 11:1, edelbrock carb, full FMF power core header and slip on. Now it didnt run when i got it. Timing chain tensioner was broke and had no compresion. Pulled it apart and the 2 exgaust valves are bent. To top that off the idiot put the oil filter in backwards! So the rockers are shot, cam is wore excessively, and the sleve is cracked. So i basically am at square 1. Was going to go back together with the same stuff but have looked at some kits from duncan, CT racing, sparks and Alba. My question is to those who have 440 kits what works the best? Need to still run pump gas and dont have a boat load of money to blow. I want the max amount of power i can get with the best combo. Let me know what has worked for you all. Thanks

[Dave16]

I hope you know, that with a 440 kit you need to run a bigger oil cooler which requires some work and $$.

[PaRedneckRiders]

Dont have a 440 but personally would start with something smaller.
A 416 or 426 that is built right will pull really hard.

Also I would ditch the edelbrock carb and just go with a 450r carb.
What are your plans for this quad?? (Trail, MX, GNCC)
What you plan on doing with it should influence your mods.

If you wanted something that would be a good all around quad i would go with
11:1 426
Stage 2 cam
450r carb
And some head work to match your riding style.
Also suspension to match what your looking for.

[bryan1984]

This is just a trail bike. I built my other 400 for TT racing. It is the one on my signature. have done some more work to it that what is listed. It is stock bore because the class i am in that is the top allowed CC. This bike already had the 440 and stuff so just figured i would go back with what it had. Far as the oil cooler goes, it helps to make the engine last longer. I am planning on a spal fan and larger cooler along with the larger tank. just looking for the best engine combo. I am considering just doing a 416. i have to replace the sleeve anyway.

Also is the Edelbrock carb junk? never messed with them. I just put a 450r carb on my other 400 and it does make a big diff.

I am considering getting the sparks X4 cam and rocker set up. Any one run this? And is it beneficial over a stage 2 or 3 hotcam?

[01boneless]

the edelbrock carbs suck on cars their great just not quads lol

[CJM]

all support is gone for them, edelbroke is out of the offroad biz so parts are impossible to get really.

Id do a 450r carb and a 416, 440 is cool but if the sleeve is trash no sense in bothering with it. Look at my signature, that setup works REALLY well.

[bryan1984]

LOL, im a Holley man myself on cars. Im gonna do some research and some testing with it. Will start out using my stock 400carb, then install the edelbrock, then swap to 450r and see which one really does more with my set up once done. be kinda neat to see the difference.

[tri5ron]

You might find this to be an interesting read...
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=409169

Also, since it sounds like whoever built your 440 did not know what they were doing,...

I would suggest HD studs.

I realize you have already said you don't have a boatload of cash to throw at it, but you've also indicated that you want to do it right this time.

You have already received some solid advice for a strong and dependable build.

For a Trail ridden quad,
I would also go with a 416 - 426, and to play it safe on the pump gas, (as well as the heat issues), I would stay below 11:1 compression.

Trail riding often has a lot of 2nd, 3rd gear riding, in rough terrain, at lower speeds.
You are not getting a high amount of airflow through your oil cooler, or across the head, and if you are not mindful or careful of it, you can overheat it.

You don't want to make all of the repairs,... pay out all the cash,...
And then have it burn up a second time.

JMO

[bryan1984]

Thank you for the advice. That was some good solid info in that thread. But some questions.

1: where to purchase the head studs"
2: been doing some reading and from what i understand if im getting it right the jug has to be bored a bit to accept the 440 sleeve. Can i get a sleev that will fit the jug with a stock bore and start from there
3:will the 440 be worth staying at if i go ahead and update the cooling system with spal fan, oil tank and larger cooler as far as HP goes.
4:i have to get new rockers and a cam anyway. Would it be very beniicial to get the hard surfaced rockers from duncan or sparks and run one of there cams over stock oem rockers and stage 2 or 3 hot cam.
5: its prob on this site somewhere but is it benificial to set it up to run E85? Would that make it run cooler? And is it worth the trouble?
6: this doesnt pertain to this engine but whats the max compresion one of these engins will hold? Rebuilding my TT bike this winter and am gonna put as much compresion in there as i can.

I suppose for what i am wanting i need to just build it over the winter. Im kinda a HP junkie. Its never enuff type deal and i love working on quads. So with that being said and a little more funding available what our your thoughts? Still want this one to run on pump gas. Thanks for the help Ron. Hope to see a reply from you or ZR.

[CJM]

1. Studs can be purchased from GT Thunder, they will also install them for you. Studs run 50 and install is 50. I recommend they do it as they do it all day long and wont make a mistake someone else at a machine shop might. What happens is when one of these engines overheats the exhaust studs pull out, cant happen witht he HD head studs.

2. get anew sleeve, bore it to what you want. The 440 sleeve isnt worth it imho for most. Yes it will make power-but many report problems with them due to jetting errors and cooling issues.

3. Yes it will, but only if you can get it cooled enough. As mentioned before-for many this is a huge issue. Dont get me wrong, power is very good-but a built 416 or 426 will easily make you happy too.

4. Id stick to regular old rockers and a hot cam, stage 2 or 3 is what I would pick.

5. E85 will make it run cooler, but you gotta jet it right. Im sorry but E85 isnt avail here and I have little experience with it.

6. Most dont ever go above 11:1, anything higher means race gas 100+ octane and it aint cheap. I spose highest ive hear of was 12.5:1 and they needed 110 octane iirc.

While you are in the engine its time to replace the cam chain tensioner, the timing chain guides and the timing chain. Upgrade to a 2002-2006 CRF450r timing chain. Fits fine and is much stronger than the EX chain.

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by CJM
1. Studs can be purchased from GT Thunder, they will also install them for you. Studs run 50 and install is 50. I recommend they do it as they do it all day long and wont make a mistake someone else at a machine shop might. What happens is when one of these engines overheats the exhaust studs pull out, cant happen witht he HD head studs.

2. get anew sleeve, bore it to what you want. The 440 sleeve isnt worth it imho for most. Yes it will make power-but many report problems with them due to jetting errors and cooling issues.

3. Yes it will, but only if you can get it cooled enough. As mentioned before-for many this is a huge issue. Dont get me wrong, power is very good-but a built 416 or 426 will easily make you happy too.

4. Id stick to regular old rockers and a hot cam, stage 2 or 3 is what I would pick.

5. E85 will make it run cooler, but you gotta jet it right. Im sorry but E85 isnt avail here and I have little experience with it.

6. Most dont ever go above 11:1, anything higher means race gas 100+ octane and it aint cheap. I spose highest ive hear of was 12.5:1 and they needed 110 octane iirc.

While you are in the engine its time to replace the cam chain tensioner, the timing chain guides and the timing chain. Upgrade to a 2002-2006 CRF450r timing chain. Fits fine and is much stronger than the EX chain.
Agreed to all the above statements by CJM.

also to add a little more info,...

The main reason you want GTT to do the installation of the HD studs, is because the threads for the studs, are Roll Formed Threads, as opposed to "Tap Cut" threads.
Roll Forming the threads actually strengthens the parent material that the HD studs are mounted into.

in other words,
It's not just that the studs are bigger, and that the threads are bigger,... but also, the aluminum that is now HOLDING the bigger threads, is actually strengthened.

It is similar to what is called "coining" a hole... Which is, in essence, a form of "case hardening" the inner surface, of the hole.

Ok, that's enough for tonight's "Metallurgy 101 Lesson" haha.

The bottom line is,
have GTT do the installation, just like CJM suggested.

Now on the E85 thing,
I personally do not have any experience with it, BUT,... I HAVE read from some members here who have used it.
They do report that it does make good power, and it does run measurably cooler.
They also say that it needs to be jetted so much higher , that they actually have considerably less range on a tank of fuel.

maybe Wheelie will reply to this and give you some specs on what you can expect running E85.