450r vs yfz450 vs elka stg 1 shocks

[Nick24]

Hi there, i am wanting to upgrade my front shocks w/out spending a fortune. So, what is ur guys opinions on the shocks i listed?

I found some elka stg 1's on craigslist for $165, but the guy didnt know what weight they were valved for, he just said they were pretty stiff.

What would you go with between these three shocks?

Thanks, Nick

[evan402]

165 for elkas would be a steal. There should be a number on top of the shock body. If you call Elka with that number they can tell you what it is set up for.
if you are riding alot of dunes you would probably want a set with ressies tho to keep your shock oil cool.

[blacknblue#2]

I think you would be better off with a set of 450 stockers, Stage one dont have any adjustments or resivor which the 450 shocks do have

[Nick24]

What do you think the elka's would be worth if i got them and didnt like them?

The guy went to $140 cash right away so could prolly get them for less. He was told they were stiff for racing and large jumps so, im thinking that they would be really stiff. I just want a nice plush ride on the trails, not bouncy like the 400ex.

[Nick24]

I talked the guydown to $125 for the Elka's so, i am going to give those a shot. I figure if i dont like them it shouldnt be too hard to get my money back out of them

Also, I dont ride any dunes or anything like that. Just ariund some trails in Iowa and possibly a couple tracks.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Nick24
What do you think the elka's would be worth if i got them and didnt like them?

The guy went to $140 cash right away so could prolly get them for less. He was told they were stiff for racing and large jumps so, im thinking that they would be really stiff. I just want a nice plush ride on the trails, not bouncy like the 400ex. then you definitely dont want stock 450 shocks, they are far from plush, unless you get them rebuilt, even at the lowest sag setting they are softer but then they bottom out,

but with a nick @ jet rebuild or any other shock builder they will be real nice, but that will cost another 350-400 to have a great setup

the yfz is more plush but you will have to modify them to fit

[Nick24]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
then you definitely dont want stock 450 shocks, they are far from plush, unless you get them rebuilt, even at the lowest sag setting they are softer but then they bottom out,

but with a nick @ jet rebuild or any other shock builder they will be real nice, but that will cost another 350-400 to have a great setup

the yfz is more plush but you will have to modify them to fit

Do you think the stage 1's would be good?

I forgot to mention I have that kit that widens the a-arms about 2.5-3in on each side. Not sure if that makes a difference.

Also, what do you have to do to the yfz's to make them fit?

[dxcody]

buy the elkas. Put them on if you dont like them, you could sell them for double what you paid for them probably.

[Nick24]

Originally posted by dxcody
buy the elkas. Put them on if you dont like them, you could sell them for double what you paid for them probably.
Yeah that's what I'm thinking.

Would having the wider a-arms make the 450r shocks softer??

[250x_kyle]

Originally posted by Nick24
Yeah that's what I'm thinking.

Would having the wider a-arms make the 450r shocks softer??

wider aarms will soften them up because the leverage will change that. but theres also a chance of bending an aarm if you get any major air.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by 250x_kyle
wider aarms will soften them up because the leverage will change that. but theres also a chance of bending an aarm if you get any major air. not that much the springs are real stiff even with the preload removed all the way for trails and too soft for jumps, so with the wider arms, it will just bottom out harder, the stock 450 shocks really need rebuilding, to be anything called plush, i have 2 pairs in my shop right now that im sending out for rebuild, to help them not be so rough,

here is the response from almost any shock builder about the 450 stock shocks::: this response is from (Jet)

QUOTE...."Sorry , but there are some problems with stock shocks in stock form, that is why we do what we do with them.
Fronts are generally too stiff initially, and too soft on G-out, quad too high in the air, rear rebound too fast even if you screw all the way in, motion ratio of the rear linkage isn't great and compression adjusters don't do much when you dyno them. I am lucky to feel a noticeable difference between full hard and full soft. Rebound adjustment is a different story. All of these are addressed except for compression adjuster when we do our JET mods.

Spring preload adjusters adjust ride height - not sure how much you weigh but for woods and trail riding stock shocks, I would back off the preload adjusters until there is little or no preload on the springs (you can feel when quad is off the ground and just pulling down on the spring itself to feel the tension on it). Rear - the same unless you weigh above 225. This lowers the quad and gives a softer ride.

S = soft / H = hard (i'm sure you knew that)

Front and rear shocks, back off compression all the way until you get them modified.

Front rebound - slow enough so when your pushing down on the front with you hands it doesn't spring right back at you.

Rear rebound - screw all the way Hard easily (don't cram on this or you will damage it) then back off toward soft 1/2 to 3/4 turn. You never want to run the rebound all the way hard since this closes off the bypass needle inside ...which affects low speed compression as well! and we need the compression free so it can absorb all those little hits, rocks, cross ruts and roots and still maintain some plushness.

That is about all you can do with stock since they need some work, but the shocks themselves are a good platform with the steel tube and are fairly easy on oil for stock shocks.

KEEP THOSE shock bearings lubed!! You need help further, you can email me. Now I got to get back and build some shocks..."

Nick @ JET

[dustin_j]

Nick24, where do you ride in Iowa? I live near Independence. I could help you setup the Elkas, but they'll probably need softer main springs and valving changes if you'd like them plush. Please pm me if you'd like any help.

I agree with DNB about stock 450r shocks. Mine are working good after switching to dual rate and making valving adjustments.

[Nick24]

Alright, thanks a lot DNB and Dustin.

I am going to look at the Elkas later today and will test them out. If i dont like them i will try to resell them and make a little on ebay so, i can get some 450r shocks or maybe find another really good deal on some other elkas or works shocks.

I dont really want to put more money into the elkas if i dont like them since they arent adjustable or anything.

Or would the yfz shocks be a better starting point for what I do? I dont get huge air or anything.

I will definitely come to you guys if I need help.

Thanks again guys!! :)

[tri5ron]

A buddy of mine has the non-adjustable Elka's.

Sure, they are better than the stock 400ex "pogo-sticks",... but they are still stiffer than they should be, and he is really not all that impressed or happy with them.

I have the 450r shocks, with the Works Triple Rate spring upgrade, (600/600/215), and no revalving.
I have full adustability, and a much better ride.

We both have stock A-arms.
My rider weight is about 180-190
His rider weight is about 225-235

Even BEFORE I had the Works springs,
(and yes, they were a LITTLE bit stiff for the stock length A-arms), my ride was still better than his, at my 180-190 weight.
(He would have been even more comfortable with them at his 225-235 weight.

After upgrading to the Triple Rates on the 450r shocks, there is a HUGE improvement, and absolutely no comparison.
They are FAR better now, and I do not see any real NEED to have them revalved.

Sure,.. If I just had another $200+ that was burning a hole it my pocket, with nothing better to do with the cash,... then I might do the revalve.

BUT, being a Trail rider myself, and not catching "Big Air" either, it really has no justification... and I RARELY, IF EVER, bottom it out.
(and,... we often ride in some seriously rough terrain, including large rocks, and LOTS of big whoops).

The money saved, from not doing the revalve is far better spent, on a good Steering Stabilizer.

jmo,
But I think you are really just wasting your time on the non-adjustable Elka's,....
But some people are willing to pay for a name, even though better performance can be had for around the same investment.

hope this helps

[Nick24]

Originally posted by tri5ron
A buddy of mine has the non-adjustable Elka's.

Sure, they are better than the stock 400ex "pogo-sticks",... but they are still stiffer than they should be, and he is really not all that impressed or happy with them.

I have the 450r shocks, with the Works Triple Rate spring upgrade, (600/600/215), and no revalving.
I have full adustability, and a much better ride.

We both have stock A-arms.
My rider weight is about 180-190
His rider weight is about 225-235

Even BEFORE I had the Works springs,
(and yes, they were a LITTLE bit stiff for the stock length A-arms), my ride was still better than his, at my 180-190 weight.
(He would have been even more comfortable with them at his 225-235 weight.

After upgrading to the Triple Rates on the 450r shocks, there is a HUGE improvement, and absolutely no comparison.
They are FAR better now, and I do not see any real NEED to have them revalved.

Sure,.. If I just had another $200+ that was burning a hole it my pocket, with nothing better to do with the cash,... then I might do the revalve.

BUT, being a Trail rider myself, and not catching "Big Air" either, it really has no justification... and I RARELY, IF EVER, bottom it out.
(and,... we often ride in some seriously rough terrain, including large rocks, and LOTS of big whoops).

The money saved, from not doing the revalve is far better spent, on a good Steering Stabilizer.

jmo,
But I think you are really just wasting your time on the non-adjustable Elka's,....
But some people are willing to pay for a name, even though better performance can be had for around the same investment.

hope this helps

What do you think the elkas would be worth on ebay? I'm just thinkng for the price... if I like them great, if I dont like them I shouldnt have a problem reselling them for what i have into them or even make a little bit of money ya know.

I do appreciate your response though. Good info to have.

Also, what do the numbers mean in the parenthesis (600/600/215)?

Thanks again!!

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by Nick24
What do you think the elkas would be worth on ebay? I'm just thinkng for the price... if I like them great, if I dont like them I shouldnt have a problem reselling them for what i have into them or even make a little bit of money ya know.

I do appreciate your response though. Good info to have.

Thanks again!! As with all things, they are worth whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay. and you never know what that will be,... until "The Fat Lady Sings".

A good way to see what some have recently sold for, is to do a advanced ebay search, on "Completed Listings Only". Look for comparably USED listings.
Often this can give you an idea of the range they have been selling for.

btw- What is your rider weight ?

This just might,... (and will probably BE,...), the determining factor, as to whether they are even worth your time.
ESPECIALLY if you are mounting them on stock length A-arms.

Another thing you have to ask yourself is,
Why would a guy be willing to sell a set of $450+ shocks,..... for $125 Bucks ???
why isn't HE selling them on Ebay, and trying to get somewhere around $225-$250 ???

HMmmm,... is it possible they are beat to hell, and have blown seals ?????

Whats your time and frustration really worth ?

Don't you think he wants to get as much as he can out of them ?

I HIGHLY DOUBT you will be able to sell them for double what you paid for them.
it just wouldn't make sense.

jmho, no flaming or bashing is intended.

[Nick24]

I weigh 125.

You bring up very good points and more than likely you are probably right.

Is there a way you can tell if the seals are blown just by looking at them?

Here's the craigslist ad if you would take a look at them... it would be great.http://cedarrapids.craigslist.org/rvs/2516762040.html

Thanks.

[Nick24]

with the Works Triple Rate spring upgrade, (600/600/215)

What do the numbers in parenthesis mean??

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Nick24
I weigh 125.

You bring up very good points and more than likely you are probably right.

Is there a way you can tell if the seals are blown just by looking at them?

Here's the craigslist ad if you would take a look at them... it would be great.http://cedarrapids.craigslist.org/rvs/2516762040.html

Thanks. oh man!!! at 125 the 450 shocks will be stiff, definitly set them as soft as posible on the sag and compression, rebound set just enough to bring quad back up after compressing

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
oh man!!! at 125 the 450 shocks will be stiff, definitly set them as soft as posible on the sag and compression, rebound set just enough to bring quad back up after compressing
X2 !
Wow ! at 125 lbs you either need to strap some bricks on your grab bar and front bumper,... or start eating like a madman !
Haha,... just kidding, but you are really going to need some soft set-ups.

The numbers, are the rate for each of the 3 springs.

When you are ordering your springs, they will ask you what a-arms you are running, how much you weigh, and your style of riding.
They will then make a suggestion on what spring pack combination will best suit your needs.
I'd suggest going to the light side of what they suggest.
you might want to talk to Colby with C&D racing, http://www.exriders.com/vbb/contact.php who is one of this sites sponsors.
At 125 lbs. I'm guessing you will also NEED to get the re-valve job, to get them to work at the optimum performance level.

or like I said before,...
start carrying some lead in your back pockets !

[Nick24]

So forget the elkas... right?

Do you think yfz shocks would be a better starting point for me?

With the widening kit i have the shocks dont mount to the original mounting spot so, i wouldnt have to worry about grinding or anything.

[tri5ron]

First,
get rid of that widening kit.
they are JUNK !
Same thing goes for wheel spacers, and flipping front rims.

They may add some stability to a quad that is never ridden aggressively, by say a non experienced kid or lady,...
But they have NO PLACE on a quad, ridden by someone who is already looking to improve performance, and handling capabilities, with up graded shocks.

Take the time to read these links. You will learn a lot.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=396807&highlight=widening+kits

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=450223&highlight=widening+kits

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=300433&highlight=diamond+widening

Second, (like I said before),... (and even MORE SO), with you being a very light weight rider.
you are wasting you time and energy with the Elka's you posted.

Don't get so caught up in brand names.

That's how the major companies, make big money on, (I'm trying to be nice here...) "less than optimum" products.

[Nick24]

Originally posted by tri5ron
First,
get rid of that widening kit.
they are JUNK !
Same thing goes for wheel spacers, and flipping front rims.

They may add some stability to a quad that is never ridden aggressively, by say a non experienced kid or lady,...
But they have NO PLACE on a quad, ridden by someone who is already looking to improve performance, and handling capabilities, with up graded shocks.

Take the time to read these links. You will learn a lot.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=396807&highlight=widening+kits

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=450223&highlight=widening+kits

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=300433&highlight=diamond+widening

Second, (like I said before),... (and even MORE SO), with you being a very light weight rider.
you are wasting you time and energy with the Elka's you posted.

Don't get so caught up in brand names.

That's how the major companies, make big money on, (I'm trying to be nice here...) "less than optimum" products.

Alright, perfect thanks for all your help here. Ill read all of those.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230560199634&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:MOTORS:1123 maybe save up for these??? :)

[dustin_j]

I agree with Ron on the widening kit! I'd still love to see in person how much bump steer those kits add, haha.

I wouldn't waste your time with the Works shocks either, they fall under what Ron called "less than optimum." If you want the cheapest way to get a plusher ride, then yfz shocks might work for you. Although, the yfz shocks are a little short for an EX, and there's no adjustability to the progressively wound spring.

I recommend you look into HLS essential shocks ($500 no reservoir) or resprung 450R shocks. Don't worry about the lack of reservoir or adjustments on the HLS shocks, they aren't needed if the shock is setup well (the Elka you posted wasn't). Stock valving in 450R stock shocks would work fine for your weight and riding style. They just need a multi rate spring setup, for most people I don't think there's a big benefit going triple rate over dual rate, so you can save a few bucks that way.

Ron, you sure get emotional about your resprung 450R shocks, haha.

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by Nick24
maybe save up for these??? :) No,
those will not work for you.

The description in the auction says,... "Shocks are for a 130-150# rider on +2 a-arms, or a 160-180# rider on stock a-arms".

Your A-arms do not count as "Wider A-arms" with your widening kit.
You still have stock A-arms.

I'm assuming that you have the infamous Diamond J kit ???

If that is a correct assumption, then what you have basically done is, you now have WIDENED the FRAME, where the stock A-arms are mounted.

This does not constitute, or equate to, or perform as wider / longer A-arms.

What you need to do,
for the proper, improved ride, improved performance, and handling capabilities,...

while keeping it on a budget minded, "Best Bang for your Buck",...

Is to get yourself a good, clean, used or new set of 450r shocks,...

and THEN have them Re-sprung to YOUR WEIGHT and A-arms,...

and since you are a very light weight,
You MAY ALSO NEED...
to have them re-valved.

Contact Colby, as well as Works, and see what they have to say.

[dxcody]

Originally posted by tri5ron

Another thing you have to ask yourself is,
Why would a guy be willing to sell a set of $450+ shocks,..... for $125 Bucks ???
why isn't HE selling them on Ebay, and trying to get somewhere around $225-$250 ???

HMmmm,... is it possible they are beat to hell, and have blown seals ?????

Whats your time and frustration really worth ?

Don't you think he wants to get as much as he can out of them ?

I HIGHLY DOUBT you will be able to sell them for double what you paid for them.
it just wouldn't make sense.


I was getting ready add, that, then again why would he sell shocks that are worth 250, for 125. but ron beat me to it.

Dont believe people when they say "Oh i just want them gone.." or "Well i dont really have any use for them."

because they know what they are doing.. now that i think about what ron said, YOU NEVER KNOW, he could have tried to sell them to some guy for $250, and the guy told him that they were junk and that the valves were shot or SOMETHING and now he is just trying to find some sucker to make a coin on.

I mean i am not saying that they are, i just mean that there are alot of people out to rip everyone they can these days. Honesty is not a factor in "wheelin and dealin" anymore to most people.

You just cant go by what people say anymore.

Im sure you already knew that though.

[tri5ron]

Haha,
It's not about being emotional.

It's just about trying to help make intelligent suggestions, to newer, maybe less experienced riders,...
who may not be focusing on the correct issues.

I am not saying re-sprung 450r shocks are the VERY BEST shocks out there.

I'm AM saying, for a budget minded trail rider, (and even amateur racing),
they are the best "Bang for your Buck".

patience Ron,..... Patience...http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/bangheadonwall.gif

All too often, it seems like many are better at creating their own dissatisfaction and their own problems,...

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/mime-attachment.jpg


Than they are at listening to solid advise, from the more experienced,...
... or finding their own solutions. http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/barniearrgh.gif



http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/lmaosmiley.gif


Peace, Love, Later dudes,...I'm out...........

[dustin_j]

I just like to see you excited Ron, that snake picture is pretty funny.

Nick24, pm sent.

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by dustin_j
I just like to see you excited Ron http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/smiley6.gif :D
Awww Heck,... just forget all that other stuff I was saying.
I must have just been thinking crazy.

Keep the Diamond J kit,
Add some 3" wheel spacers,
Flip the rims,
Turn the stock shocks upsidedown,
Hook bungie cords from the grips to the
Grab bar,
Fill the tires with Jello,
And stuff the seat with marshmallows.

You just love the way it rides !
:devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[Nick24]

Originally posted by tri5ron
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/tri5ron/Emoticons%20and%20funny%20pics/smiley6.gif :D
Awww Heck,... just forget all that other stuff I was saying.
I must have just been thinking crazy.

Keep the Diamond J kit,
Add some 3" wheel spacers,
Flip the rims,
Turn the stock shocks upsidedown,
Hook bungie cords from the grips to the
Grab bar,
Fill the tires with Jello,
And stuff the seat with marshmallows.

You just love the way it rides !
:devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
Lol I like it ron :) Ill get right on that :)

I think ill just stay on the hunt for some yfz or 450r shocks and go from there.

You guys are great and extremely helpful!!!!!!!!

Thanks a million!!

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by 01boneless

your a smart ***** from your own sig...

only my .02 cents
"if you dont like someone pretend you do or dont responed" lol
------------------------------------------------------

Look bonehead-less,
It's certainly no secret that you've got some sort of hard-on for anything I say, and you've had your panties all in a wad, from when I and many others, busted your balls a while back.

Why don't you just take a chill-pill, and not try to stir up another hornets nest.

But if you do so choose, I'll be happy to match wits with you, and let the chips fall where they may.

As "Rhett Butler" would say,
"Frankly Scarlett,...............

Your call.

[01boneless]

easy tiger just kidding haha

[Nick24]

Well, I picked up some rebuilt dual rate HLS shocks for $245. They are set-up for a 125-175# rider so hopefully that will be good.

Thanks for all the help guys!!

[chronicsmoke]

I wonder what's better in a head2head compitition..

450r shocks or yfz450 shocks or LT-R shocks or KFX shocks or Z400 shocks or Raptor 700 shocks. heck, that one dude from Quebec even put DS450 Shocks on as a "long Travel" front setup..

Are the 450r shocks the best, or just the most abundant, and readily available..

I'd like to hear people opinions that HAVE TRIED more than one shock.. (Not "I jus boht 450r shox to replac my stock pogo stix and there r da bomb cuz I boht em" lol)

[Nick24]

Alright, I just got my HLS shocks in the mail. Got them mounted up and rode it..... all I can say is WOW, what a difference. It handles in the corners much better, takes jumps insanely better, oh and yeah the ride is nice and plush just like I was looking for.

My thanks go out to Dustin_J for pointing in the direction of these shocks. Very good suggestion man.

Thanks for all of your guys help.

Oh, guess what... that guy that had the elkas put them on ebay and ended up getting $225 for them. Guess I could have made a little monet, but hey I am happy and that's what counts, right? :)

Thanks again guys, Nick

[dustin_j]

I'm glad they work good for you, I look forward to checking them out.

[HondaRacing83]

Originally posted by chronicsmoke
I wonder what's better in a head2head compitition..

450r shocks or yfz450 shocks or LT-R shocks or KFX shocks or Z400 shocks or Raptor 700 shocks. heck, that one dude from Quebec even put DS450 Shocks on as a "long Travel" front setup..

Are the 450r shocks the best, or just the most abundant, and readily available..

I'd like to hear people opinions that HAVE TRIED more than one shock.. (Not "I jus boht 450r shox to replac my stock pogo stix and there r da bomb cuz I boht em" lol) bet you could get ktm or polaris mxr's stock fox's and use those for long travel to.