guitar volume knob to 11?

[buck440]

i'm not too guitar/electronic smart but i'm wanting to get my stepdad another ibanez jem 7v but i'm going to have some pearl/dinosaur bone inlay, and some more gold plating done and the main thing i'm wanting to have done is a volume knob that goes to 11 instead of 10.

i want it to actually be functional. any know if it can be done? can it be possible to make the guitar 10% louder without messing with the amp? or can it be evenly distributed throughout the 11 but not actually be any louder?

nobody will probably know on here but i just had to ask.:)

[slightlybent47]

I’ve never heard of anything like this in my 35 years of playing guitar. A volume knob or as it's actual name“ turn pot” can only go to 10., once it goes past the 10 mark it will go back down to zero and start over.
However you can put a duel coil pickup in it that runs on a 9 volt battery that will increase the sound variations that can be achieved.
You can also go with a hot rod amp but like everything else that is hopped up it can and will burn up much faster then a stock amp.
Some Marshall amps are hot rod amps but they burn out in a short time and has to be sent to the repair shop all the time.

Look into some of the newer guitar Fx processor’s on the market. They have overdrives that sound incredible. But they wont be any louder.

Get a bigger amp with more power. A good tube power head can run up 200 watts but that’s it. you can run more speakers to the head for more sound. But when you go to a concert it’s all pumped through the PA system and that’s why it’s so loud.

The term crank it to 11 is just a saying, but having said that, an amp seas a signal and just amplifies it. Like any amp when you increase the input signal you also increase distortion when you pass a given point.

[godzilla]

Have you been watching Spinal Tap?

[buck440]

Originally posted by godzilla
Have you been watching Spinal Tap?

maby

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY

:D

[buck440]

Originally posted by slightlybent47
I’ve never heard of anything like this in my 35 years of playing guitar. A volume knob or as it's actual name“ turn pot” can only go to 10., once it goes past the 10 mark it will go back down to zero and start over.
However you can put a duel coil pickup in it that runs on a 9 volt battery that will increase the sound variations that can be achieved.
You can also go with a hot rod amp but like everything else that iall thuitar Fxh any louder.

Get a bigger amp with more power. A good tube power head can run up 200 watts but that’s it. you can run more speakers to the head for more sound. But when you go to a concert it’s all pumped through the PA system and that’s why it’s so loud.

The term crank it to 11 is just a saying, but having said that, an amp seas a signal and just amplifies it. Like any amp when you increase the input signal you also increase distortion when you pass a given point.

i really don't want to mess with the sound of the jem7v and by getting a dual coil pickup my guess is that it would sound somewhat different. do you know of a way to amplify the signal past 10 without any amp work?

at some point i'm going have to find someone who can do this but i want to make sure it can be done first.

i also don't want it to change the sound variation, i want it to actually be louder.

[slightlybent47]

Originally posted by buck440
i really don't want to mess with the sound of the jem7v and by getting a dual coil pickup my guess is that it would sound somewhat different. do you know of a way to amplify the signal past 10 without any amp work?

at some point i'm going have to find someone who can do this but i want to make sure it can be done first.

i also don't want it to change the sound variation, i want it to actually be louder.

Haha!!!! You’re not getting it. It’s a myth, it can’t be done.
If you want it louder get a bigger amp and more speakers.

[Scro]

Scratch out the 10 and write in 11?

[slightlybent47]

Here is a little history for you. Back when rock first started they would crank the amps up all the way to 10. And in doing so they destroyed the speakers and in some cases the speaker cone would get a tear in it.
But they discovered that with a torn cone and the amp cranked up all the way that it had a distorted sound to it that fit the rock sound. And they liked it.
They liked it so much they would tear the speaker cone on purpose just to get that sound. That’s why rock started out being so loud.

Fast forward a few years and lo and behold they also discovered that by cranking up the pre amp input to an amp that it also created a distorted sound because the input signal is too high.

But it all had to be cranked up very loud in order to achieve it.

Fast forward 10 more years, and they came out with electronics that could create a distorted sound without having it cranked up all the way. You can now get that great distorted sound without going deaf.

So the myth surly started way back when they cranked the pre amp signal up to 10 and the output of the amp to 10.

Now a days you can get that same sound and be at a much lower sound leavle.

[slightlybent47]

You can use a FX like a BBE sonic maximizer that will make it sound louder but it’s really just an eq that is set at a deferent curve then the eq on the amp can deliver.
It works like a base boost button on a stereo and increases the input on the pre amp side of the signal chain.
But the decibels that the amp puts out will be the same, it wont be any louder but it will sound louder.

I have a BBe 482i sonic maximizer witch is the top of the line BBe and it’s for sale if your interested in it?

Here is a link http://www.americanmusical.com/ItemSearch--search-Bbe-Sonic-Maximizer--srcin-1?src=Y1010NMSA2000000&utm_source=msa&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=non

[sly400ex]

Haha....this thread is funny!

Reminds me of a girl I was seeing in highschool.......she thought if I got a new fuel gauge in my car (mine was always floating around E) I would have more gas, it was simply because I never had enough money to get it go all the way to F. ......same principal here.

[buck440]

i expect some ******* comments so bring them.

i know it a 'novelty' but i was just curious if it could be a reasonable reality. so is this what what i'm kinda talking about but it is external of the guitar?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibanez_Tube_Screamer

could it be possible to hollow out a spot on the jem to put the electronics in and modify it to have less/knobs?

[slightlybent47]

You’re still not getting it. The Fx you are referring to “Ibanez tube screamer” is just that, an FX. Just like all the stomp boxes it’s just an inline FX.
If you’ll read the part in the add under “Description” it seas the same thing I was talking about earlier when I said you can increase the pre amp signal but all that does is saturate the input with an excessively high input signal and that’s what gives you all that distortion.
The tube screamer is a tube driven pre amp that is put in line from the guitar to the input of the power amp. This gives the pre amp of the power amp a higher signal.

Adding distortion to the signal dose not increase the output of the power amp side of the amp. OK well it does but only on some frequencies, but it retards the output of other frequencies. So it doesn’t get louder as a whole.

It called clipping the signal.

Power amps are designed to run on a certain amplitude, like down in the mili amp.
The power amp side of the amp just amplifies this signal. The volume will increase until it reaches the limit set on the pre amp. Once you go beyond that level on the pre amp side it starts to clip and create distortion.

That’s how distortion works, and that tube screamer is no deferent.
Also if you read the add, that FX module only works with an amp the already has a tube pre amp in it. it wont work with a solid state amp or an amp with a solid state pre amp.

[Ichoptop]

there was an old adage that you never lent Link Wray your gear because he would pop holes in the cones just because he liked the way it sounded.



Sad that he isn't in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame....he did invent the power chord.

[TheLane]

Dude, what your not getting is that in order to get a louder sound of your guitar you have to get hotter pickups. Thats the only way.

Otherwise you could boost it on the amp side by turning up your preamp.

It is not possible to get 10% more volume by just adding another knotch in your nob.

But along with hotter pickups also gets a less smooth tone. The Jem itself is a fantastic all around guitar which is why steve vai uses it. Especially the 7.

[buck440]

i'll look online for some reputable guitar builders and email or call them and see how they would go about doing it. i just know it can be done and i need someone to work with me on it that has quite a bit of experience.

thanks though.

[slightlybent47]

What ever dude! I tried to explain it to you and so did several others. So your going to pay someone to do what can’t be done. That’s interesting; say can you lend me some money? I know a guy that can make my throttle turn twice as far as it does stock and that will make it go faster!

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by slightlybent47
What ever dude! I tried to explain it to you and so did several others. So your going to pay someone to do what can’t be done. That’s interesting; say can you lend me some money? I know a guy that can make my throttle turn twice as far as it does stock and that will make it go faster!

Same principle. The slide on your carb isn't going to open further if you grind the stop off your thumb throttle. The guitar is not going to be 10% louder if you added another notch.

[buck440]

if i'm correct i could have the amp master volume "modified" to reach the 10% or so right?

[brian76708]

Im not familiar with amps but i take it the volume nob is just a potentiometer. Now does it actually click in place for each number or do you just spin it there. I mean you could always add more numbers or get a different pot with a bigger stroke. But it will only be around 9% higher then 10. It will not get any louder then what the amp is now at 10 but it will just have more adjustment. So it will still work at 11. Is this what your going for or are you trying to make it louder then what 10 is now?

[slightlybent47]

Let me try to paint one more picture for you and then I’ll give up.
Let’s start at the beginning, everything starts with a signal, like a microphone, guitar, tape player, tuner, CD player and so on. These devices put out a very small (weak) signal. The signal is sent to a device like an amp to be amplified to a level that can drive a speaker. But before it goes to the amp you need to have some control over it. This is what the pre amp does. It gives you control over the signal before it gets to the amp.

AMPLOFIERS:
Amplifiers come in several configurations; some are just power amps with no pre amp.
Still others have pre amps built in.

PRE AMPS:
Pre amps are small amplifiers that are in between the instrument and the power amp.
A pre amp houses the controls that you use to adjust things like the EQ, presents and volume. When you put a very low signal into a pre amp it boots the signal to a level that the amp can use. But amplifiers are designed to accept only small or weak signals. So a pre amp boost’s that signal and controls how much signal the power amp sees.

Adding a device like a stomp box or EQ or FX into the signal chain will give you some control of the signal you are sending to the pre amp.

Take a combo guitar amp for instance. It has all the components built in. when you plug into the input on the front of the unit it is sent to a internal pre amp where the signal is boosted and sent into a built in EQ (low, mid and high frequencies). These are your volume knobs and EQ knobs. That’s the pre amp side of the amp, once you have made you’r adjustments that signal is sent to the power amp side and boosted to a level to drive a speaker.
You can break in down and run each component as separately or have it all built into one unit like a combo amp.

Volume knobs are built in a circle. So there’s only 360* of rotation available. Form 0* to 360*.
If 0* is off or no signal being sent, then you here nothing. As you rotate the knob around to full or 359* you are increasing the output signal of the guitar. Once you reach 360* it starts over again at 0*. Like the second hand on a clock, once it goes all the way around, it starts over. You can make a knob with as many numbers as you want but it still only rotates 360* witch is the maximum signal that can pass through the volume knob. But it doesn’t change anything.
I have amps that go from 0-100. does that mean it gets any louder? No, it just means the numbers on the knob are in 100ths instead of 10ths.

When you plug a guitar into a device like a stomp box this gives you a way to manipulate the signal before it reaches the pre amp on the amplifier. In this way you can increase the signal the pre amp sees. When you over drive a pre amp it causes distortion. Yes it also increases the output of the power amp but it comes out as distortion and not the volume level.

An amplifier can only put out the power it’s designed to put out no mater how hot the input signal is. Once a 100 watt amp is pumping out 100 watts it doesn’t matter if you increase the input signal or not it still won’t go past 100 watts.
Bear in mind anything you do to the signal before it gets to the power amp will have an effect on the sound but not the volume.

Like I’ve been telling you if you want it louder, get bigger amps and more speakers.

[buck440]

i somewhat see what your saying. do you think a Marshall jvm series could be modified 10 more watts?

i found a electronics engineer in the UK that mods Marshall amps and wanted to get my **** straight before i contacted him.

[slightlybent47]

What kind of amp are you using and why do you want it louder?
JCM amps are already hot rod amps from the start. Every Marshall amp I have ever had has burnt up within a year, and I had to get them fixed.

If it’s a tube amp and not solid state then you can have the tubes replaced. Marshall and many others use L 34 tube in there final stage. But L34’s are hot tubes to begin with, that’s why there used so much. Tubes can become weaker over time and will decrease the output of the amp.

[buck440]

Originally posted by slightlybent47
What kind of amp are you using and why do you want it louder?
JCM amps are already hot rod amps from the start. Every Marshall amp I have ever had has burnt up within a year, and I had to get them fixed.

If it’s a tube amp and not solid state then you can have the tubes replaced. Marshall and many others use L 34 tube in there final stage. But L34’s are hot tubes to begin with, that’s why there used so much. Tubes can become weaker over time and will decrease the output of the amp.

jvm410hcf. i'm not wanting to do it just to make it louder...it's plenty loud. it's just more of a functional novelty and a unique conversation piece people can check out when he plays out.

i know it's a lot of work with not much to gain but it's what i want.

[Exrider434]

I personally think it's a pretty cool idea, it's no different than modifying a quad to your likes. People create new things for their preference every day, why not be different and do te same for your dad. Big thumbs up for being creative and I wish you the best in finding the help to get it done!

[slightlybent47]

That amp looks like it’s already a bad *** amp. I’ve never used that model but just reading the short specks on it, it already has L34’s in its final stage.
Trying to squeeze a little more out of it just might burn it up. Remember Marshalls are hot rod amps to begin with and pushing it as fare as it will go without self destructing.

Have you asked him if he would like it modified? He may like it just the way it is. If he’s playing out he needs a back up amp, especially with using a Marshall. You don’t want to stop in the middle of a gig because your amp fried. Been there done that!

If you have two amps and one of them has a direct out, you can run it into a second amp and run two amps at the same time. It’s called dayzey chain. Many Marshalls have this on the back of the head, but not all of them have it.

What cab is he using with that head?

[buck440]

i'm not sure on the cab. all of what you say i look up because i don't know what it is lol. i don't play so music chit not my thing.

has what i'm wanting ever been done? if someone has then i can do some copying:macho

yah without a doubt he would like it stock but i like to think waaayyy outside of the box.

[slightlybent47]

That head can run at least two 4x12 cabs, adding another cab will give you more sound and more power.
Here’s why: first thing is when you place two or more speakers close together you get more then twice the pressure waves coming out because they interact with each other.

Next is the amp: an amp sees a speaker as a resistance load. This load is measured in ohms. A 4x12 cab has 4- 12” speakers at 16 ohms each. When wired in parallel they become a 4 ohm load. When you add another 4 ohm cab it brings it down to a 2 ohm load witch almost doubles the output wattage.

Get him another cab to go with the stack so he will have a full stack. Among the deference I stated above this will raise the upper cab to a height that puts the sound right if your face.
That way his tone stays the same but the volume will go up.

[TheLane]

Originally posted by slightlybent47
That head can run at least two 4x12 cabs, adding another cab will give you more sound and more power.
Here’s why: first thing is when you place two or more speakers close together you get more then twice the pressure waves coming out because they interact with each other.

Next is the amp: an amp sees a speaker as a resistance load. This load is measured in ohms. A 4x12 cab has 4- 12” speakers at 16 ohms each. When wired in parallel they become a 4 ohm load. When you add another 4 ohm cab it brings it down to a 2 ohm load witch almost doubles the output wattage.

Get him another cab to go with the stack so he will have a full stack. Among the deference I stated above this will raise the upper cab to a height that puts the sound right if your face.
That way his tone stays the same but the volume will go up.



In human terms :P adding another cab will make the amp have to work harder...

one thing to keep in mind, The harder the amp works = more gain = more distortion.

The harder the amp works, the grittier the distortion will be. youll lose the smooth sound, but it will sound way more metal


Edit - and how and the F*** are you guys burning up tube amps???! what exactly is there to burn up? Ive had my mesa boogie triple rec hot rodded for 5 years and toured the world with that thing and not "burned it up" as long as you replace your tubes every year you should be good :P

[slightlybent47]

I don’t know why but I had 4 jcm amps and all of them went up in smoke.
The first 2 amps were jcm 800 heads. I had 2 heads and two 4x12 cabs and I ran them in stereo. One night at practice one of the 800’s let out a weird whimper and I looked over and a big puff of smoke was rising up from the head.
I took it to a repair shop and come to fine out the capacitors were wired up backwards. This had to be done at the factory because I bought them new. Not long after the first one burnt up the other one did the same thing. Then I sold those heads and picked up a jcm 900 power amp. This was a rack mount power amp that put out 100 watts per side. So I used the two cabs I had and switched to a digital processor that was stereo.
Within a year and in the middle of a gig, it to went up in smoke as well.
So I swapped it off for a jcm 900 head and it didn’t go out on me but it was sounding funky so I got rid of it before it went up in smoke.
That was the end of my Marshall days, I figured that if they didn’t last very long they weren’t worth the hassle.
In an effort to simplify things I picked up a Peavey classic 50x50 tube power amp and a digitech 2101 guitar processor and I picked up a jcm 800 1960 4x12 stereo cab. This worked out very well until a friend borrowed it for a gig and the amp went out on him. He had it fixed and brought it back and I still use it to this day.

I liked the digitech because we were a cover band and it allowed me to get any sound and style I want at the push of a button.

The mesa boogie stuff was too pricy for me at the time so I never used them. I hear there good amps though.

The digitech is a pretty cool processor because it has built in mixers that allows you to link modules in any order and you can stack the modules as well.
It’s all done internally; it’s like having 100+ stomp boxes that you can link in any order.

I can send my signal into a 1x2 mixer and take one of the signals coming out of the mixer and send it to and module like a chorus and the other signal coming out of that mixer and send it to another module like a flanger. Now I have split into 2 separate modules. Now I can add another mixer in the chain, now I have 4 signals coming from the 2 stereo modules so I add a 4x2 mixer and bring those 4 channels into a 2 channel mix. Now I can add more modules to the mix. Then add another mixer and split the signal again or sum it up into just 1 stereo mix. The mixers are unlimited and the number of combinations are endless. I can stack a chorus on top of a chorus on top of yet another chorus or what ever combination I want. It’s very cool.

It’s like having 100’s of FX you can put in any order and stack them if you want. And it’s all done in a single unit.
Also the diditech 2101 has all tube pre amp or solid state pre amp depending on what modules you use and how it is configured. It all can be controlled with a 10 channel foot switch that has a volume peddle and a wha wha peddle.
It also allows me to do spill over’s, that is I can switch from one preset to another and have the delay or reverb spill over from the previous preset. In other words the delay will keep fading out while I switch channels and play over the top of the delay that’s fading out.
It’s a very cool unit.