In need of a new BB cylinder. Who to buy from

[Burns310r]

Im going to be replacing my junk ESR 330 PV engine with a 350 cylinder. The question is who do i buy one from.

I want a Pro X jug for sure, and i was thinking if i get a power valve engine, that i would like to have a Rotax PV because i have heard so many good things about them.

Should i do nik?

Currently im looking at

LED
CT
BDT

I have heard CT is kinda a waste with general port work. Not bad, just not the best.

LED uses the ESR style PV i believe. Not 100% sure though.

BDT seems to have good reviews over on 250r.net.

Anybody else to throw in the running?

Thanks

Burns

[racerx573]

Duncan Racing Paul Turner setups..

I have a PTR 270 nik bore stock cylinder and that thing ran. My buddy had the same with a powervalve setup. I watched him pull holeshot after holeshot in Open Pro-Am and Open A against built CRF's and YZ's back in the day.

[racerx573]

I also had a CT 265 powervalve, for a 265 I out ran many 450's, and it had enough balls to get me over 85-100 foot jumps with short runs.

...265 in action with a short run at that jump..

[RyanWsly]

CT is known for MX/XC ported engines, never heard it refered to as a waste. Lots of big name guys have ran there stuff.

LED uses CPI cylinders, not sure about the powervalve itself though. once again well known for MX/XC ported engines.

Duncan racing, well known for building 250R engines of all sorts, high quaility parts.

BDT seem very current on what is going on with with current 250R owners, but have not really heard much. not as time tested as the other three builders, but may be just as capable.

the three builders on the top made their names with the 250R engine, that should speak volumes for each of them.

[Burns310r]

You cant buy a Duncan 250r motor anymore can you?

[Burns310r]

What are CPI cylinders? Are those the sphinx?

[Burns310r]

Duncan shows the PC2000 340 Nik cylinder, but the price is 0.00.


Do they still make PC2000 cylinders?







Also Nik cylinders. If you happen to sieze one, do they normally make it through okay and only the piston scuffs? or does it take the nik coating with it?

[RyanWsly]

Duncan still shows all of their models on the website, so I would assume it is all still available. CPI has a few different models of cylinders, that is one of them. some guys on here have had LED build engines for them so they may be able to tell you which cylinder he is using.

[danhung11]

Duncan PC2000 topend kits are still available, call Lenny. You might want to hold off until their monthly specials come up. My butt dyno is very impressed with my 275, although I'm not completely done with break-in.

[Burns310r]

Whats the story with the Nik cylinders?

Does the Nickacle come off if you sieze it?

[racerx573]

I had the nik bored stock 270, and I taked that thing, all it needed was a good honing afterwards. Very well worth it.

[latheboy]

LED used an ESR cylinder when I ordered my 350pv a year ago. It has the ESR style powervalve. Actually, the first ESR powervalve that came with it fell apart, and was replaced free of charge by ESR with their updated adjustable powervalve. The LED setup (his hand made pipe and ported cylinder) really flies, but its probably overpriced.

[RyanWsly]

I stand corrected on LED then, must have imagined it.

[troybilt]

For the record, LED actually uses Sphinx cylinders and is hands down the way to go if money isn't a problem. 56 hp from a 300cc motor... Arlen machines his own PV's for the Sphinx cylinder.

He also builds his own pipes for the Sphinx cylinder.

From Arlen, you can get a:

300 Sphinx PV or non PV, nikasiled bore
350 Sphinx non PV, nikasiled bore
350 ProX PV, nikasiled bore
Also Pumas and Sabers...

not sure where the other stuff is coming from...

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/TRXLEDcylleftsideview.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/RightsideLED250BSteveGragg.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/TRX250Bpipeandsilencer.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/Screenshot2011-02-04at70437PM.png

[latheboy]

Good to know, troybuilt. I asked him for a 350pv, tt ported and piped, and I got an ESR cyclinder with the ESR cast lettering milled off it. Its fast, but I cannot keep it cool. I do have an oversize radiator. For $3500+ (pipe carb, cyl, crank, ect) I am a little dissapointed.

[troybilt]

Interesting... Have you talked to him recently? I didn't pry too much on the 350PV... he just told me he could do a ProX 350PV... cause it wouldn't be cost effective to do a 350 Sphinx PV, which I was asking about at the time. I know he machines his own PV valves now... don't know about yours though.

I'm sending my Saber 496 to him to build an MX ported 496 Saber motor... should be wild... :)

[troybilt]

Originally posted by latheboy
Good to know, troybuilt. I asked him for a 350pv, tt ported and piped, and I got an ESR cyclinder with the ESR cast lettering milled off it. Its fast, but I cannot keep it cool. I do have an oversize radiator. For $3500+ (pipe carb, cyl, crank, ect) I am a little dissapointed.

I wouldn't give up on that motor just yet, as far as keeping it cool. I just ordered a Spal fan for my Saber today, might be an option for you too... just an idea...

[hondamancbr03]

I was at Arlan's shop about a month ago and he was trying to convince me to sell my Pro-X 350PV (Rotax) and buy his Sphinx cylinder sitting at his desk, after talking awhile and getting past his sale pitch portion of his job, he told me that he helped (or tried) in the design of the Sphinx cylinder with CPI but they did not listen regarding the port timing and he is not happy with the numbers right out of the box, too high of transfers and exhaust for what he builds normally.....Why try and sell something to a long time customer if you (the builder) does not even approve of the product???? I will say after all these years Arlan has changed and is more about making the money than the rep for being a good engine builder. Even if my money tree in the back yard bloomed I would still not allow Arlan to partake in my riches due to bad business practice.

Keep in mind I for years considered Arlan a two-stroke God, what I write above is a new outlook and is only to save others from my recent experience so I apologize to the LED fans.

Side note on the Sphinx: It's a good looking cylinder, port numbers are high for my liking but with big displacement and a PV to compensate it would probably run hard....It's a copy of Cheetah cub cylinders for Banshee's, even has the same port timing.

[troybilt]

I've heard similar stories before from other members... I will say the he told me the same thing about the port timings, that's why he resleeves the cylinders and adjusts the port timings to his likings, so that was probably what he was selling, he quoted me on that same top end. However, I wanted a PV and he told me that he does not make a 350 Sphinx PV, cause it would cost too much and no one would buy it... Smiley runs an LED Sphinx motor in his XC bike...

[latheboy]

I really think Arlan did excellent porting on my cylinder and made me a great pipe. I think his recommended jetting was off. I dont really want to get into what has all taken place in the public forum here. If you are interested, I can PM anyone.

Overall, I have a screaming fast quad. Everytime I come back to the pits, I am shaking.
Just worry if it will seize every time I go out, because its hard to keep it under 220F.

[Burns310r]

I talked to carlos at BDT, hes thinking that i should loose the PV if i run a 350 engine, and run 195-205 compression for a B/A MX motor.

Is arguments are very convincing. Im not sure what im going to do yet, but im leaning toward that.


I have emailed Arlan to see what a PV and non PV sphinx 350 will cost me.




Also when it comes to duncan and the PC2000. Which is better ? PC2000 or Pro X? Or is it a wash? I know the Rotax PV is the best in the busines?


What do you guys think about using a PV on a 350cc cylinder? Not needed?

[hondamancbr03]

I agree with you on leaving out details on the public forum, I don't want to Arlan bash because he is a great source for knowledge in the 250R world. There was other things that took place on that visit that I would not be right to share being it would be a one sided story.

As for your heat issue? What's your compression? Fuel octane? Radiator? When i got my motor it was set at 230psi, it ran hot with the dual pass i run so i lowered it to 210psi which helped, still going to lower it again being it has plenty of power and i would rather give up power for longer life.


Originally posted by latheboy
I dont really want to get into what has all taken place in the public forum here. If you are interested, I can PM anyone.

Ove
Just worry if it will seize every time I go out, because its hard to keep it under 220F.

[latheboy]

My compression is at 230 or a lil more. I have a 28cc dome in it now. I would like to lower it more, even 190 would be fine, but not sure exactly which dome to get. they are about $100 each, so I dont want to just guess.
Its a stock stroke, 78mm bore, 3/16 spacer I believe.
I also have a dual pass radiator (pro series)
I am running 110 octane.

[hondamancbr03]

I'm running the same set up and fuel....I'm going to 190psi this winter. Just remember compression adds a lot of HP to our motors.

Have you ever done a squish test before? If you do a squish test and send out your current dome to a machine shop, they will CC your dome with the squish measurement you provide, this will give you what you want without the guessing game.


Originally posted by latheboy
My compression is at 230 or a lil more. I have a 28cc dome in it now. I would like to lower it more, even 190 would be fine, but not sure exactly which dome to get. they are about $100 each, so I dont want to just guess.
Its a stock stroke, 78mm bore, 3/16 spacer I believe.
I also have a dual pass radiator (pro series)
I am running 110 octane.

[latheboy]

Last time I attempted a squish test, i got .090. I think thats probably too much, but what did I pay LED for then? lol
I understand what you are saying about losing HP when dropping the comp.

[hondamancbr03]

What method did you use to perform a squish test? That seems to high for the compression you're running.

You should be in the .040 range.....

[Burns310r]

What is the story on the CT cylinders?

There portwork isnt that good? Has it changed since the past?

There 350pv cylinders are only $1500.

Any particular reason to stay away from CT?

[danhung11]

I am very happy with my CT ProX cylinders, 310 and 330 (non-bolt on). The CT330 was built by Ed Texiera and it is an awesome MX motor, very useable power. No cooling issues what so ever... I ran the 330 pretty hard in the dunes when it was 100+ degrees, never went above 210 - that was after about 7-8 passes on the drag strip. The 310 is the same, but needs to be freshened up. I want to try out some of the other low-key builders who put out awesome power.

I think the only thing that deters me from CT is talking with Susie. :p Once you get around that, it's all smooth sailing. I think Allen is more focused on desert and xc bikes, but will build you anything you pay him to, very knowledgeable.

[Fear250r]

Originally posted by danhung11

I think the only thing that deters me from CT is talking with Susie.

X2...

I'm running a ProX 330 cylinder also. Bought it unported and had it sent directly to Neil for a full port job and I'm very happy with it. No heat issues whatsoever and has been a strong runner. Only problem was the damn wiseco crank I used when it was put together the first time...

[D Bergstrom]

Happy with my CT 330 top end also. It was ported by them and I feel it runs strong, of course, never tried any other setups to compare it to. Allen has always been more then helpful when talking to him on the phone. Hopefully I will be going with a 350 PV top end from CT here in the near future...

Doug

[Burns310r]

does anybody else have an opinion on running a PV on a 350 bike?


Like i said, BDT is saying that its not necessary on these bigger bore motors....

Does anybody have both a 350pv and a 350 non PV that they can share there experiances?

[hondamancbr03]

You should include the question of what they are using their bikes for as well....A PV engine on the track is worth the money in my opinion, a PV engine in the dunes where you ride mostly in the mid to top end doesn't give you the pay back like the track riding would.

If someone says go PV or non-PV because they like it, ask what they use it for and compare that to your planned use.

[etccb]

I rode a esr 350pv at the dunes not to long ago and I really liked it. I did some dragging on it and some of my personal favorite wfo time.