So lets start the 416-440 heat convo

[Thumpin440ex]

I often here people say that the 440 bikes over heat more so then the 416 or 426 bikes do.. Does any body have solid proof of this? Has anyone taking a heat gun, measured the temp of both a stock 400-416-426-440, jugs, head, exhaust ports?? Just curious.. We are only taking a 4mm over bore.. Post up of you have solid info, no what you have heard.. Looking for personal exp.. I have had my bike together for over a year, have rode pretty hard, it has been great to me.. And this is not a pissing match or bashing thread as to what is better. Just looking for some heat info..


John

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by Thumpin440ex
I often here people say that the 440 bikes over heat more so then the 416 or 426 bikes do.. Does any body have solid proof of this? Has anyone taking a heat gun, measured the temp of both a stock 400-416-426-440, jugs, head, exhaust ports?? Just curious.. We are only taking a 4mm over bore.. Post up of you have solid info, no what you have heard.. Looking for personal exp.. I have had my bike together for over a year, have rode pretty hard, it has been great to me.. And this is not a pissing match or bashing thread as to what is better. Just looking for some heat info..


John

Next time I have the ex out I'll bring the heat gun with me.

It does get hotter then it was when it was stock, the only experience I have is from stock to a 426. MUCH more heat, but I went up on Bore and CR

[Thumpin440ex]

Ok, I will also do the same.. The comp rise is most likely the cause of the heat issue. Whether it be on a stock bike or a 440..


John

[Baileygunns]

Don't forget jetting, outside temps, fuel type, etc will effect your engine temps. The only real way to do this would be to have all the bike sitting side by side after they were tuned to perfection on a dyno...

It's a novel idea but too many variables...

[Baileygunns]

Plus all would have to be running the same compression... I agree with you on not being sold on the temps being that far out if set up properly.

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by Thumpin440ex
Ok, I will also do the same.. The comp rise is most likely the cause of the heat issue. Whether it be on a stock bike or a 440..


John

My thoughts exactly..

It would be nice to see Bore/CR/Cam/Intake/Carb/Jetting/Fuel/Timing Key/Elevation/Cooling System/Climate stats on each contribution too.

I'd be interested in seeing these #'s! There are still some veriables (climate, temp gun, ect..) but I think it'd be fun!

[Thumpin440ex]

This would all be on your standard 11-1 bike, on 93.. Given the bike will run cooler with other things such as a fan, bigger cooler, on race fuel. Jetting I do not think is going to play the role of heat, unless it is so lean it is ready to explode.. It would just to be nice to get some good facts, to put a cover on this so called heat thing we all hear about..

John

[CJM]

I can tell you right now that my 416 with the 11:1 and 93 runs quite hot. Not insane, but you can sure feel it on a warm day even with the fan going full blast.

Think of the cooling fins on the topend like a way to dissipate heat (actually that is there purpose). If you cut the inside of the cylinder smaller than you generate more heat be it stock CR or higher b/c it has less metal to cool it on overall. Remember the thicker a piece of metal the more heat it can take-IE a cheap stove pot vs a more $$$ one which has less metal in it.

Major downfal of the EX always is and will be its aircooled. While its a good design it just cant cool like a liquid cooled engine.

[Baileygunns]

Standard 11:1? What's a stock 400 running for compression?

Not trying to start a pissing match or pop your balloon but you have to compare apples to apples and have a legit base to compare from or you're just wasting your time...

The only variable has to be bore, everything else must be exactly the same.

[CJM]

Standard CR is 9:1, ive never seen anyone run that with a larger bore-always seen high CR if they bore.

Thats why you hear of people who have 440s and dont understand why they are slow, go to 10:1 its not much difference than stock, do 11:1 with the proper gaskets and its a whole nother ballgame.

[Baileygunns]

You're missing the point... Even using a stock bike the comparison is flawed by uneven CR between bikes

[honda400ex2003]

i saw an average temp about 15 degrees less with my 440 than i did running my 416 with 6 degrees of advance. some instances are into the 20 degree range or 25 degree range.

specs on each:

416 10:1 stage 1 or 2 both 6 and 3 degree

440 11:1 stage 2 stock key

the key is the main addition to heat from my findings. these numbers are oil temps based on the same riding situations and monitored very closely every 10 minutes or so while riding daily.


i ran about 15-20 degrees hotter than a 11:1 416 stock key with my 6 degree also through a whole warm up cycle starting momentarily of each other.
steve

[vinson581]

compression and timing produce heat more then any other factor. an 11:1 406 bore is going to typically run hotter then a 10:1 440 bore. octane plays a big part in keeping the motor cool as well. 110 vs 93

[crownandmonster]

2005 ex- 416 bore- 11:1 CR- XR headgasket- Hot Cam stg 2- stock header with welds ground- stock timing key- stock Oil cooling- Conservative P/P- 450r carb 175 main 52 slow jet 2.5 turns on the screw- 93 pump gas- 600 ft. above sea level 85-90 degrees with high humidity- Mixed riding for about 70-90 minutes consisting of hard trails and some open fields.


Went back to the house and shut it off, stuck a temp prob in the oil tank and waited for about 3 minutes. It maxed out at 236 degrees. Next stuck the temp prob inbetween the fins on the jug as far as it would go and waited. It climbed to 290 degrees
(which is likely high because it sat there for 5 minutes with no air moving accross it while I was checking oil temps).

[supertrooper90]

I believe they call that heat soak. after an engine has been siting for a period of time and actually gets hotter while it sits not running, so I'mnot really sure that 290 degrees is an acurate temp. The oil being at 236 is quite scary though. I always thought oil didnt do very well being run that hot .

[crownandmonster]

Yea the 290 is probably quite high...250 is probably more accurate. 236 is a bit warm but I don't think its terrible. As a general rule of thumb you would like to keep your oil temp below 210, but it's pretty impossible to do that in an air cooled motor that turns 8 thousand RPM( And is capable of more if you feel the need to turn it that hard). If i were up in the 250 range I would be worried, but I have been running this set up for a year with no problems. The high oil temps are also why I stress so frequent oil changes. I change my oil every 10-12 hours, which really helps keep the oil in good shape and lets it handle the slightly high temps.

[honda400ex2003]

i would concur about that crown. I feel the same, safe is under 250 but i would be shutting down at that temp. 230 would be my max and has been in the past. i have only seen that temp a couple of times.

it looks like i forgot to put temps for mine.

200-220 416 with advance

180-200 440

steve

[Mr-Sleeper-34]

This is a good thread. I think advanced timing and CR would be the main reason for extra heat.

[Thumpin440ex]

I was not referring to the stock comp being 11-1. That is what most people are running for comp after going to a 416-440 build.. If the oil temps are only in the 230 range that is not super hot, most oils are good to 400deg before break down will occur.. As for the heat soak, yes for sure the engine will be hotter if you have checked the temp in the minuets after you stop riding.. The timing, comp will absolutely be the biggest factors in the heating issue, or what will cause the most heat.. We are just trying for some base temps.. And when they are taking to post up what your mods are..

John

[JOHNDOE83]

My 440 is right at the same temps steve is running, thats verified with a temp gun.

I believe most heat issues arent from the oil , compression, or timing, I've noticed most heat issues are jetting related in these air cooled motor's.

[Thumpin440ex]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
My 440 is right at the same temps steve is running, thats verified with a temp gun.

I believe most heat issues arent from the oil , compression, or timing, I've noticed most heat issues are jetting related in these air cooled motor's.

I would have to kindly disagree on this.. Timing will absolutely play a huge role in heat, as it raises temps in the combustion area as fuel ignition is changed whether it be advanced or retarded to much..Compression also as it raises cylinder pressers.. I do agree that the fuel delivery will cause some, but only make it rise to the point of over heating if it is so lean it is beginning to detonate, in which case it is not jetted properly..


John

[JOHNDOE83]

I think there may be some confusion with my statement, I wasnt saying timing doesnt play a role in heat issue's.

Simply the majority of the time it's a jett issue, with this type of air cooled motor.